Unreal Engine Completed Subverse [v1.1.1] [Studio Fow]

[Razrback16]

Well, SFOW obviously didn't do it because some people complained, but because they wanted to tap into that huge playerbase to get additional revenue. You either write a game that appeals to the mainstream or you don't. In this case your complaint should really be directed at SOFW and not at those who don't like a certain kind of content. I think we agree that nobody would expect people to pay for a game they don't like.

Then again, the main problem seems to be that SOFW simply didn't bother to implement these things well. Most of this could have been avoided quite easily.

Exactly. It's the fact that the developer wants to tap into more sales...which seems to be a pretty reasonable goal, it's just like other members mentioned already - their 'solution' handles the issue so poorly that they might as well have not made any changes to begin with and just gone balls to the wall on cuck type content with the mantics for the crowd that's into that. To me, not having to watch the scenes themselves isn't much of an improvement if the dialogue and codex entries referencing the events are still intact during the story. As myself and others have covered already this was actually pretty easy to avoid unless the xeno content is so deeply integrated into the narrative that it's unavoidable no matter what (a key reason to wait until the game is at v1.0 before even considering purchasing it).

We've seen good VNs created by dev teams consisting of one human being (City of Broken Dreamers, Being A DIK, etc.) that have complex dialogue and choice / event trees, and no one is even asking for that here - just having one branch where it either contains those references, or they are completely absent from the narrative was all that was really needed to address this and both parties would have been in good shape. And I want both parties to be in good shape. I want the people who are looking for mantic / beast stuff to be happy - I don't want content to be REMOVED from their version of the game, I just want options for our side so that both sets of gamers can be happy.

i downloaded the full archive and it just brings up steam? how do i get it to play, anyone know?

You need the crack files - they are in the OP I believe, but you can also just scroll up the thread a bit. I believe some others posted links to pre-cracked sources of the game.

 

[Joshua Tree]

is that sarcasm? xD i genuinely don't know and i tried looking but i couldn't seem to find it. def would love a solution bc i waited hours to download it (':

It's probably the most posted about thing next to the whole ntr debacle.. in the thread , so yeah...

 

[Joshua Tree]

We've seen good VNs created by dev teams consisting of one human being (City of Broken Dreamers, Being A DIK, etc.) that have complex dialogue and choice / event trees, and no one is even asking for that here - just having one branch where it either contains those references, or they are completely absent from the narrative was all that was really needed to address this and both parties would have been in good shape. And I want both parties to be in good shape. I want the people who are looking for mantic / beast stuff to be happy - I don't want content to be REMOVED from their version of the game, I just want options for our side so that both sets of gamers can be happy.

I don't want any shooting in GTA5, I just want the driving, and no guns and all that violence.... I don't want the cops to start chase me if I run people over either... how about it, can you make that happen?

It's simple, we play the games we like, and we avoid the ones we don't. If you feel the game have elements that isn't for you, then you stay away from it. Games is not made for everyone. If there is enough things I like in a game Vs things that doesn't really appeal that much I'm still inclined to play them. Then again, as for Subverse I think to much of myself to self insert to a dude with panties on his head. But if that is your cup of tea, by all means.

 

[DouglasCosta]

NLT Media was also in a similar situation and made the right decision to cut all the comic sensitivities thing like sharing, swinging, gangbang, rape ... etc when making video games to focus on vanilla route and making huge success. Fow Studio wants to satisfy both old and new fan and get caught up in this headache

 

[Razrback16]

I don't want any shooting in GTA5, I just want the driving, and no guns and all that violence.... I don't want the cops to start chase me if I run people over either... how about it, can you make that happen?

It's simple, we play the games we like, and we avoid the ones we don't. If you feel the game have elements that isn't for you, then you stay away from it. Games is not made for everyone. If there is enough things I like in a game Vs things that doesn't really appeal that much I'm still inclined to play them. Then again, as for Subverse I think to much of myself to self insert to a dude with panties on his head. But if that is your cup of tea, by all means.

It's not quite that black and white and I agree that every game is not made for everyone. This one is a gray zone currently. The studio clearly knows there's a good chunk of their target audience (normies) that aren't into the xeno / cuck stuff. And we know they are targeting normies with this game given how they (even Valen noted this) changed some of the forced content that they know is a turn-off to that demographic, but as others noted, this really wasn't a solution since they still contain narrative references to the content. So given what we know, the studio seems like they WANT people who are more into vanilla / romance content to buy their game, but there is a bit of a conflict with some of the content, there.

We're basically at a point now where some folks like enough of the game that they will continue following it in the hope that it ends up in a state they like enough to buy. But with the presence of these forced narrative elements, these people don't feel comfortable enough to pull the trigger on a purchase, and so they remain in a holding pattern so-to-speak to see how things end up. I'm basically in that boat. I think the graphics are great, I think the voice actors and actresses have done a good job and the story is interesting enough and I'd actually like to support them for those reasons. But I'm not going to buy the game with canonized xeno narrative elements.

NLT Media was also in a similar situation and made the right decision to cut all the comic sensitivities thing like sharing, swinging, gangbang, rape ... etc when making video games to focus on vanilla route and making huge success. Fow Studio wants to satisfy both old and new fan and get caught up in this headache

Can you fill us in on what happened with this? I'm not familiar with this company, so just curious what happened? What made them decide to change their content, exactly, was there an incident of some kind, etc.?

 

[NBV]

Yep, I remember people having this exact same NTR discussion months ago, not much has changed since then. It's amazing how the main criticism of Subverse in this forum went from the sex scenes being disjointed 10-second gifs that have no connection to the story, to some of those scenes being TOO CONNECTED to the story lol (the mantic scenes in Pandora that everyone says are canon NTR or whatever).

That's the problem with trying to appeal to a purely vanilla audience when the core of your game is just supposed to be wacky sex for all parties. There will always be those vanilla fans that will not be satisfied until the game has absolutely no mentions or even slight implications of these things. The only way to purely solve this problem is to either only appeal to one audience, which will likely fuck us monster sex fans over, or completely lock the different sides of content off with a main menu kill switch.

Well, SFOW obviously didn't do it because some people complained, but because they wanted to tap into that huge playerbase to get additional revenue.

Well, the complaints obviously didn't help. Even the staff within the discord on launch were answering critic on the system with it being changed to not upset those who don't want to see it. But yeah, we don't need to argue why they changed it. The best thing they can do is fix this change to make it more organic and less lazy. People on their Discord, their Reddit, and their Steam have all been suggesting the same kind of fix. What's left is to see if they actually take the feedback into account and try working around that idea. Nobody is saying they should take orders from their player base, but a sign of non-shit game dev is at least listening to what of the most agreed about critic your EA game is having and trying to build upon making it better. When almost everyone in the most opposing groups of fetish fanbase (the vanilla whiners vs everyone else) are able to agree that they'd be happy for a single main menu button to make these things simply not appear, then why is it so hard to build on that?

The fact of the matter is that they clearly want their game to have this kind of slutty mantic stuff, even if it's just small offhanded comments. Even when they tried appeasing to normies, they still have Lily reference her background with fucking aliens. Their own player base is flat out giving them the easy solution to being able to satisfy the players's want for more integrated mantic sex and Fow's obvious own want to see that happen.

[B]Joshua Tree[/B] constantly telling everyone that they should just not play it and that not every game is made for everyone simply doesn't work under these circumstances. StudioFow is TRYING to make the game for everyone, and failing at it. Their change in direction to issue the Pandora system and lock Mantic scenes outside of the main game was solely to make it usable to everyone. We're trying to talk about how they can do this better, since they've already made the decision that they want to appeal to the most whiniest type(the most extreme waifu/vanilla fans) of people possible.

 

[Joshua Tree]

It's not quite that black and white and I agree that every game is not made for everyone. This one is a gray zone currently. The studio clearly knows there's a good chunk of their target audience (normies) that aren't into the xeno / cuck stuff. And we know they are targeting normies with this game given how they (even Valen noted this) changed some of the forced content that they know is a turn-off to that demographic, but as others noted, this really wasn't a solution since they still contain narrative references to the content. So given what we know, the studio seems like they WANT people who are more into vanilla / romance content to buy their game, but there is a bit of a conflict with some of the content, there.

It's quite simple. They grew up, they got a proper game studio. They hired even more people, there is wages and bills to be paid. They are already making a game for a very small niche market in the game industry. There is nothing more wrong with doing that for them, than you have creators on patreon that bombard their games with a billion tags/fetishes to reach as many as possible. The effect is the same, people get upset, because they can't have the entire cake and eat it too.

NBV yeah it is that simple. If you don't like something then stay away from it, or you accept there is things you don't like there, but the good stuff outweighs it. Because the thing is, if "YOU" get it your way, there is other people that will complain they didn't get it their way. Scenes in pandora need to be unlocked by points you earn. They made it a player choice what to unlock and watch. That doesn't mean they made it for everyone. Just look at angsty people that get all riled up over a few lines of text in the story and codex. It's like some super religious person refused to read the bible because there so much horrible shit in it that they don't like or want to think about.

 

[j4yj4m]

That's the problem with trying to appeal to a purely vanilla audience when the core of your game is just supposed to be wacky sex for all parties. There will always be those vanilla fans that will not be satisfied until the game has absolutely no mentions or even slight implications of these things. The only way to purely solve this problem is to either only appeal to one audience, which will likely fuck us monster sex fans over, or completely lock the different sides of content off with a main menu kill switch.

You won't even need a switch. Just look Summertime Saga for example, which hides its "controversial" trans-content behind a well written two tier ingame choice. Up to this day there are players who played the whole game and who have no idea that the game even has this kind of content while those who like will reach it naturally (and can still decline if they don't want to see it in their playthrough). It's really not that hard if someone is willing to spend a little time and effort on it. Sure, a switch would be fine too but that's already kinda the cheap solution.

As said above, I don't like the vanilla/whiny narrative. They could have written a game for the "non vanilla/not whiney" audience some here describe, but then they'd have lost a ton of sales. The problem isn't that these players exist, the problem is that SOFW obviously caters to them to get their money. And if they do that, they better deliver on that "promise". It doesn't mean that they have to exclude everybody else, as many other games show, but essentially it's really that easy.

Ulitmately it looks like they want to please as many as possible but at least until now chose one of the worst ways to do it. I still hope they may learn from these mistakes and correct them at some point, especially since it's quite easily doable.

 

[Readerf2b]

I don't want any shooting in GTA5, I just want the driving, and no guns and all that violence.... I don't want the cops to start chase me if I run people over either... how about it, can you make that happen?

Maybe you shouldn't buy grand thieft auto and instead buy big rigs, lol.

It's simple, we play the games we like, and we avoid the ones we don't.

So critique is nonexistent in your world? Imagine hoi4, but where you cant play axis because some vocal idiots thinks it promotes fascism, but you are not suppose to say that its dumb.

 

[Joshua Tree]

Maybe you shouldn't buy grand thieft auto and instead buy big rigs, lol.


So critique is nonexistent in your world? Imagine hoi4, but where you cant play axis because some vocal idiots thinks it promotes fascism, but you are not suppose to say that its dumb.

Exactly and that is where you don't buy such games. There is a difference between critique something, and want changes that applies to your own preference. Because, screw all those other people right? There will always be unhappy people about something. And still the best thing is.. if you don't like something, stay away from it. Very simple that...

 

[Readerf2b]

There is a difference between critique something, and want changes that applies to your own preference.

There is no difference. When you critique something, it implies that something needs to change to make object of your critique better, at least in your own eyes, especially when its not about someone's preferences but base game feature being done poorly compared to analogues.

 

[Joshua Tree]

There is no difference. When you critique something, it implies that something needs to change to make object of your critique better, at least in your own eyes, especially when its not about someone's preferences but base game feature being done poorly compared to analogues.

No, because everyone have ideas for changes that would in their eyes make things better. It's subjective to your preference, regardless if you have other people that agree with you or not. Because there is other people out there with other ideas that you wouldn't like at all. Imagine they would implement every idea and suggestion people throw at them. How great a game that would make right?

 

[Readerf2b]

No, because everyone have ideas for changes that would in their eyes make things better. It's subjective to your preference, regardless if you have other people that agree with you or not. Because there is other people out there with other ideas that you wouldn't like at all. Imagine they would implement every idea and suggestion people throw at them. How great a game that would make right?

So valid critique, or mass of critique that have common ground is still what? Irrelevant? Comparison critique is irrelevant? You know, you should play big rigs, and than all you can say is that you liked or disliked it. You cant mention what they did wrong.

 

[Limited20]

It's not quite that black and white and I agree that every game is not made for everyone. This one is a gray zone currently. The studio clearly knows there's a good chunk of their target audience (normies) that aren't into the xeno / cuck stuff. And we know they are targeting normies with this game given how they (even Valen noted this) changed some of the forced content that they know is a turn-off to that demographic, but as others noted, this really wasn't a solution since they still contain narrative references to the content. So given what we know, the studio seems like they WANT people who are more into vanilla / romance content to buy their game, but there is a bit of a conflict with some of the content, there.

We're basically at a point now where some folks like enough of the game that they will continue following it in the hope that it ends up in a state they like enough to buy. But with the presence of these forced narrative elements, these people don't feel comfortable enough to pull the trigger on a purchase, and so they remain in a holding pattern so-to-speak to see how things end up. I'm basically in that boat. I think the graphics are great, I think the voice actors and actresses have done a good job and the story is interesting enough and I'd actually like to support them for those reasons. But I'm not going to buy the game with canonized xeno narrative elements.



Can you fill us in on what happened with this? I'm not familiar with this company, so just curious what happened? What made them decide to change their content, exactly, was there an incident of some kind, etc.?

I agree with you completely. Im also on the "Wait and see" with subverse.
But the voice acresses are simple carrying the game in my opion. Kili and Demi can just get me rock hard with their sultry voices


As for NLT media.
They were making hardcore NTR/Cuck/Sharing content at the start. They were making comics about sharing the the mothers, fucking around etc ....

People were not too happy with such content, so with their 1st game they removed almost all such elements from their game.
They made it so the comics are not canon.

But sadly the 1st game has a small sharing scene at the start (But the game is not an ntr,cuck,sharing game).
Some little loser ate out Amber's pussy and you then fucked her. That was the sharing scene. There is no more sharing after that.
The little loser is there to give you the Threat/Danger of NTR. But it never actually happnes.

People did not like that ... so they (the devs) went full vanilla in their next game Treasure of Nadia.
Treasures of Nadia is a full on harem game, where only the MC is fucking the girls. No sharing, no cuck stuff, no ntr, no sloppy seconds etc...
Its honestly one of the best games. The visuals are insane and the animations are smooth and hot.

 

[Limited20]

The fact of the matter is that they clearly want their game to have this kind of slutty mantic stuff, even if it's just small offhanded comments. Even when they tried appeasing to normies, they still have Lily reference her background with fucking aliens. Their own player base is flat out giving them the easy solution to being able to satisfy the players's want for more integrated mantic sex and Fow's obvious own want to see that happen.

This right here !
Because she is referencing this stuff (making it canon), this is a major turn off.
Simply making us hate/dislike the character as a whole.

You won't even need a switch. Just look Summertime Saga for example, which hides its "controversial" trans-content behind a well written two tier ingame choice. Up to this day there are players who played the whole game and who have no idea that the game even has this kind of content while those who like will reach it naturally (and can still decline if they don't want to see it in their playthrough). It's really not that hard if someone is willing to spend a little time and effort on it. Sure, a switch would be fine too but that's already kinda the cheap solution.

As said above, I don't like the vanilla/whiny narrative. They could have written a game for the "non vanilla/not whiney" audience some here describe, but then they'd have lost a ton of sales. The problem isn't that these players exist, the problem is that SOFW obviously caters to them to get their money. And if they do that, they better deliver on that "promise". It doesn't mean that they have to exclude everybody else, as many other games show, but essentially it's really that easy.

Ulitmately it looks like they want to please as many as possible but at least until now chose one of the worst ways to do it. I still hope they may learn from these mistakes and correct them at some point, especially since it's quite easily doable.

I mean, you can satisfy both types of fans when you make things avoidable/optional. Its that simple

For the vanilla people who dislike ntr,sharing,cuking etc ...
Just make it so that only the MC has sex with the girls. They do not fuck around at present with xenos or anybody else. They do not talk about it and its never mentioned in dialog or in the codex.

This can be done with multiple ways. Like you said, this can be done with a choice system
Or like NBV said with, with a kill switch at the start of the game to turn off all ntr, cuckolding, sharing etc ...

That way the player can have a harem of slutty waifus.


On a side note. That after sex cuddle scene with MC and Kili is the most sweet thing ever <3
Game needs more of that

 

[Razrback16]

It's quite simple. They grew up, they got a proper game studio. They hired even more people, there is wages and bills to be paid. They are already making a game for a very small niche market in the game industry. There is nothing more wrong with doing that for them, than you have creators on patreon that bombard their games with a billion tags/fetishes to reach as many as possible. The effect is the same, people get upset, because they can't have the entire cake and eat it too.

No. If what you are saying is accurate (and we know it's not), then they would never have attempted to appeal to a more vanilla group to begin with when they tweaked some of the content / adding pandora, as has already been discussed.

if they do that, they better deliver on that "promise".

^ Yep. If they didn't want money from vanilla players all they had to do was keep to the aforementioned advertising and target audience of the earlier bit on Steam of Lily in the lab with the captain walking by and hearing her get boinked by monsters while not being able to do anything about it - instead they rolled that back along with some other items, but the problem is, they're NOT delivering on that "promise" as it sits currently. They're trying to play both sides of the board and it's not working.

I mentioned in an earlier post, if this is the route they go, then I'd rather see them just go full xeno / cuck so that the people who are into that can 100% have what they want. Don't straddle the line, go full throttle on whatever it is because if you're not going to cut that content for the other side completely then no one will be happy in this instance - and the sad thing is, assuming the narrative isn't full of constant Lily / xeno references via events and dialogue, this really would be easy to address while impacting nothing for the xeno / cuck audience. It just comes down to, as you and others have said, SFOW implemented a poor solution for this.

I agree with you completely. Im also on the "Wait and see" with subverse.
But the voice acresses are simple carrying the game in my opion. Kili and Demi can just get me rock hard with their sultry voices

As for NLT media.
They were making hardcore NTR/Cuck/Sharing content at the start. They were making comics about sharing the the mothers, fucking around etc ....

People were not too happy with such content, so with their 1st game they removed almost all such elements from their game.
They made it so the comics are not canon.

But sadly the 1st game has a small sharing scene at the start (But the game is not an ntr,cuck,sharing game).
Some little loser ate out Amber's pussy and you then fucked her. That was the sharing scene. There is no more sharing after that.
The little loser is there to give you the Threat/Danger of NTR. But it never actually happnes.

People did not like that ... so they (the devs) went full vanilla in their next game Treasure of Nadia.
Treasures of Nadia is a full on harem game, where only the MC is fucking the girls. No sharing, no cuck stuff, no ntr, no sloppy seconds etc...
Its honestly one of the best games. The visuals are insane and the animations are smooth and hot.

Thanks - ya I have heard of Treasures of Nadia and I know it has high praise, but I didn't know the history with the dev. Sounds like they wanted to make some money and I don't fault them a bit for that. When you listen to your customers and find ways to implement solutions to make them happy, I applaud that.

And you know, I don't even mind having the xeno stuff in Subverse as long as the way they choose to implement it gives the player 100% optional control over that content since it's a bit on the fringe. When it's shoved down your throat via dialogue & codex references the player then has no choice in it and it rubs you the wrong way. I'm not even one who has a problem with other males in the narrative even as competition - I like games and stories that have relationship development, and don't expect the MC in a given story to be the only show in town, but if / when a relationship develops I'm just not into cuckoldry / sharing type things. And with Subverse I think that's another area that SFOW has tried to play both sides of the board on - they talk about the female characters like they are waifus and that there is romance, etc. but then I've also seen them reference the relationships being casual, etc. So it's like, which is it? Their biggest problem is just trying to make everybody happy and you can't do that without a proper option system that's more heavily involved in the dialogue / events and not just for pandora scenes.

 

[NBV]

NBV yeah it is that simple. If you don't like something then stay away from it, or you accept there is things you don't like there, but the good stuff outweighs it.

Because strawmanning the idea that every form of criticism about any subject in the game from every person who does it is the right way to go, right? Seriously, this is pathetic. You do know the game is in EA, right? They're even asking for feedback on it. We're talking about a criticism the player base as a whole has been repeatedly bringing up on all their Twitter, Reddit, Discord, and their Steam age. It's only guys like you who want to keep forcing that idea that everyone is being the most extreme and unreasonable guy around. There are some people out there going "ME! ME! ME!", but that isn't what I'm doing. If you're going to tell everyone that they should just not play the game and not give criticism because everything they say just means it's not meant for them, then you really need some kind of reality check. How can anyone keep repeating this garbage and not think they look like a total yesman?

You don't even have the confidence to specifically address some of the things the more reasonable people in these threads are bringing up. You'll instead just zone in on the very fact that they mentioned the Pandora system and repeat your same manthra, then strawman that they're trying to make the game all about their needs. Even when you say something that's proven wrong, you'll just opt to blame someone else over a claim you made. This is some blatant fanboyism here. You guys get called shills because you act like them. The only time of people you'll even put the effort into actually replying to within detail on are the unreasonable guys who are asking for complete blockage of any references to mantic sex in the game, because it's very easy to shut down the most extreme and indefensible guys in the thread. Someone else mentioned that the thread has devolved into just arguing for the sake of argument, but Joshua Tree is one of the biggest reasons why. He will only give people a pass if they're praising the game. He will disagree and then try to paint the narrative that anyone criticizing any feature in the game is being unreasonable, or that they should just not play the game.

And you know, I don't even mind having the xeno stuff in Subverse as long as the way they choose to implement it gives the player 100% optional control over that content since it's a bit on the fringe.

I think that even with an option to make it optional, it should only apply to the sex and some characters. Lily's entire character at her core and introduction is built around nymphomania. It's understandable for her to not mention Mantic sex after she's developed a relationship with the protagonist, but anything before that is simply neutering a character for those who truly want the entire game to be shaped for them, even if it's under the request of it being optional. Lily's sexual background is as part of her character as DBZ's Vegeta's pride and Saiyan worship is to him. In some stories there will be characters who are sexually active and open about it. Having Lily go from being that much of a slut to more reserved for the protagonist (IF the player romances her) would be character development. Completing deleting that part of her with a kill switch is almost censorship of who she is at that point. You guys' request to make the sex part and later references to it by some characters as an optional thing is completely fair, having the char's entire personality changed isn't.

 

[Readerf2b]

You guys' request to make the sex part and later references to it by some characters as an optional thing is completely fair, having the char's entire personality changed isn't.

As I said somewhere up the tread, having a team of galaxy level sluts on board and crying about them being sluts is degeneracy.

 

[Yuriski]

As I said somewhere up the tread, having a team of galaxy level sluts on board and crying about them being sluts is degeneracy.

But isn't that what always happens in games with a male MC?
It's totally ok for the MC to sleep with anything he meets, and the girls need to support that, but as soon as a girl has a sex scene with anyone but the MC (even if it's non-con), people shut down the thread, screaming about NTR.

 

[Parabelum]

Studio Fow just wants some "Call of Duty audience"
I mean.., what could possibly go wrong?