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4.20 star(s) 145 Votes

e250vhf22

Newbie
Nov 3, 2020
70
183
sus moments (like keeping the twins flower card and the weird phone call scene which turns into some secret convo that you are not allowed to know about, not to mention they seem really keen on other dudes).
You are reading too much into it. Girls have "secret" talks where they talk about their partners. It's their version of "locker talk" (for lack of a better term) where they talk about sexual experiences. And it's not surprising for couple of virgins to talk with a more free spirited girl and learn from her experiences.

Couple that with the route you can take with that one Dom girl who makes you lick your own cum from her feet?
That's just femdom things. I for one dislike humiliation flavour. But I am not gonna kink shame others who are into that. And bear in mind on that path (depending on how you play) Jack is more curious and horny than enjoying or reveling at the humiliation aspect of things.
 
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MrVal

New Member
Feb 27, 2018
10
11
You are reading too much into it. Girls have "secret" talks where they talk about their partners. It's their version of "locker talk" (for lack of a better term) where they talk about sexual experiences. And it's not surprising for couple of virgins to talk with a more free spirited girl and learn from her experiences.
I'm not kink shaming. If that is you then that is you. But "locker talk" with the dude who just fucked a girl front of them all isn't weird then I don't know what is. The guy didn't like just wonder off. He is your best friend but you cant be apart of the convo all of the sudden. Sus
 

e250vhf22

Newbie
Nov 3, 2020
70
183
I'm not kink shaming. If that is you then that is you. But "locker talk" with the dude who just fucked a girl front of them all isn't weird then I don't know what is. The guy didn't like just wonder off. He is your best friend but you cant be apart of the convo all of the sudden. Sus
There seems to be a misunderstanding. Steve is not involved in that conversation.

ja "The three of us should talk."
off "They are clearly eager to have that conversation between girls..."
off "I don't know what to expect from that discussion between Jane and the girls."

Unless you are playing your own version in your head where Jane is secretly seducing girls on Steve's behalf. But that's not how most people look at this story.
 

patachoucs

Member
Mar 26, 2020
409
1,506
I'm not kink shaming. If that is you then that is you. But "locker talk" with the dude who just fucked a girl front of them all isn't weird then I don't know what is. The guy didn't like just wonder off. He is your best friend but you cant be apart of the convo all of the sudden. Sus
Ffs i wish you'd read the text. He's not the one talking with the girls. Jane is (his gf). She's the one who has been talking to them during the whole scene too (with some comments by Steve but that's about it). She's the one who wants to get to know the girls better. She's the one who asks to talk to them privately.
Could we just move on from this idiotic take ? The game is not ntr and the Cap is not planning to make it so. He confirmed it a couple of times. This should be enough for anyone.
 

The Naughty Captain

Active Member
Game Developer
Aug 21, 2019
780
2,302
What the hell is this? Steve of course is in the convo. He is fucking the girl! So this girl just randomly ran into the woods after being fucked to avoid speaking the "locker talk" with a bunch of girls she never met? About what!? "Oh hey getting fucked near my Dad is hot you should totally do it". Dear god I am being trolled. I am done, bye. Fuck you cuckold loving fucks
No he is not. As soon as Jane engages directly with the girls, Steve is out of the picture. He is going to miserably fall asleep, hiding behind a staircase while Jane climbs to the rooftop and has that convo with the girls.
 
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sorco2003

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2020
1,885
13,862


I finished writing scene 13. The scene evolved quite a bit between the first and the last draft. I think the final result is satisfying.
I've cut the scene and it's ready to be posed. I've planned 75 renders but that may change. There are a couple of things I want to try with some renders of that scene and I'm not sure how I will proceed. I may have to revise my plans if I fail to produce what I want.
I haven't posed any shots yet. The characters and the set are ready but I spent some time modifying some assets. I'm not sure if the details it will add to the renders will be worth it. I guess we'll know once the scene is rendered.
I've also spent some time working on the house. I'm satisfied with the interiors as I reworked them last year. However, the house has no exterior as of now. I want to change that if possible as it will allow me to do some exterior shots and would be very useful to diversify the sets and agreement the story.
I don't know if it will be possible as it will require crafting a new asset from scratch and I may have to learn a bit about 3d modelling in order to achieve that.
And I have to know if it's feasible and if yes, do it before I start reworking the first episode of the game. I'll have to get serious about it very soon.

The quick sum up :
  • Day 6 Part 2 will contain 8 scenes (Scenes 11 to 18).
  • Scenes 11, 12 and 13 are written. Scene 13 is cut and ready for posing.
  • Scenes 11 and 12 are posed and rendered.
  • Scenes 11 and 12 are logic ready.
  • 7457 words, 1095 lines of code. 164 shots are posed, 164 are rendered, 75 more renders are planned.
  • I'm currently posing scene 13.

You can follow my progress with this

Thank you very much for your support!
The Naughty Captain
 

buttfan

Member
Feb 24, 2021
151
193
What the hell is this? Steve of course is in the convo. He is fucking the girl! So this girl just randomly ran into the woods after being fucked to avoid speaking the "locker talk" with a bunch of girls she never met? About what!? "Oh hey getting fucked near my Dad is hot you should totally do it". Dear god I am being trolled. I am done, bye. Fuck you cuckold loving fucks
You sir, are an idiot.

You find the idea of some girl talking to other girls about sex over the phone incomprehensible? Do you not get out much, or what? I know this may be hard for a shut in to understand, but strangers do actually talk to each other. In this case Jane and Steve had been sending their videos to the MC and the girls already, and now she wanted to have talk with them. This is not nearly as bizarre as you seem to think it is.

And who is being cuckolded here? Steve is fucking Jane, she is his gf, not the MCs. The MC is unlikely to ever meet Jane.
So where is the cuckolding?
Or do you think every girl in the game is supposed to be the MCs fuck toy, and thus that Jane isn't is some sort of crime? If so, that's stupid.

I think the only trolling going on here is you. Or you're an idiot. Or both.

No he is not. As soon as Jane engages directly with the girls, Steve is out of the picture. He is going to miserably fall asleep, hiding behind a staircase while Jane climbs to the rooftop and has that convo with the girls.
Direct from the Dev, the guy who wrote it.
 
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realjitter

Member
Jun 21, 2021
297
372
Sometimes i wonder if some people even know what cuckolding actually is...The word gets used so loosely in this forum when in reality at most 0,2% (just a guess i haven't checked it) of all the games ever posted on this side have real cuckolding in it..And those probably even have it in the title in the first place.... So yeah..beware the evil beta cuckold because hes everywhere :p
 

deathhound7

New Member
Dec 28, 2021
10
26
If I may weigh in on the whole NTR . . . I want to avoid stories where love interests end up being intimate with someone other than the protagonist, but a bad ending doesn't count for me, and I would hate to avoid an engaging story because of an NTR tag that was only there because of a bad end.

That said, the ending is pretty disturbing. Also, did it have to be two black guys? Are we really going there? I ended up with the ending because I didn't use a walkthrough when one should really be used. I don't think the choices are nearly as straightforward as those from other games that I've played.

Anyway, I really just popped in to find out when the last time this story updated. I was really interested in the twin siblings dynamic, and it seemed like this story was going to really deep-dive into the complications and ramifications of incest. Left at a cliffhanger as the MC hasn't actually done anything with Eve in the playthrough that I was going for.
 

The Naughty Captain

Active Member
Game Developer
Aug 21, 2019
780
2,302
If I may weigh in on the whole NTR . . . I want to avoid stories where love interests end up being intimate with someone other than the protagonist, but a bad ending doesn't count for me, and I would hate to avoid an engaging story because of an NTR tag that was only there because of a bad end.

That said, the ending is pretty disturbing. Also, did it have to be two black guys? Are we really going there? I ended up with the ending because I didn't use a walkthrough when one should really be used. I don't think the choices are nearly as straightforward as those from other games that I've played.

Anyway, I really just popped in to find out when the last time this story updated. I was really interested in the twin siblings dynamic, and it seemed like this story was going to really deep-dive into the complications and ramifications of incest. Left at a cliffhanger as the MC hasn't actually done anything with Eve in the playthrough that I was going for.
As I've already explain, it works as intended. I wanted that end to be disturbing and painful. It's a bad end, so it has to hurt. You have to feel the burn of the failure and the consequences of your actions. And about the choices themselves, it's not really about what the choice says, more about what it imply on the long term.

About the Psycho twins being black. That topic bothers me.
It's probably a cultural thing. White, black, red or any other color, that doesn't make a difference to me. They're not the bad guys because they're black, and I never thought that it will enforce any kind of stereotype. I have some other characters of color that are more positive. You only met Kelly so far but some others are coming in more minor roles.
And to go further, are the psycho twins really evil ? They sure are presented that way, but are they really ?
 

BBZ01

Active Member
Apr 26, 2021
688
460
That said, the ending is pretty disturbing. Are we really going there? I ended up with the ending because I didn't use a walkthrough when one should really be used. I don't think the choices are nearly as straightforward as those from other games that I've played.
If you play through without the walkthrough the story needs you to pay attention to the text as messing with Cassie or Eve can lead to bad endings; stay faithful and supportive and it doesn't. Also as a side note, if this was a real situation, given the obvious very close bond between both of them dating either would most likely upset the other so I think that the best "good" choice is to support both of them, Cassie as a friend and Eve as a brother and date Kelly who is clearly smitten with the MC. (I have played through and got a bad ending where Kelly stuck by the MC in "his darkest hour"). 100% agree that the bad ending I got was disturbing but given the plot and the trauma that affected the twins and their family, it's a little extreme (Cassie and Eve may have recovered to a point at least with counselling and loving support of their families rather than what happened but it's not impossible) but not all that surprising.
 

deathhound7

New Member
Dec 28, 2021
10
26
As I've already explain, it works as intended. I wanted that end to be disturbing and painful. It's a bad end, so it has to hurt. You have to feel the burn of the failure and the consequences of your actions. And about the choices themselves, it's not really about what the choice says, more about what it imply on the long term.
I didn't mean to imply that I have a problem with a disturbing bad end. It's quite the sucker-punch, and kudos to that. It's just that when I was playing the game, I really had no idea how I got to that point or what I did wrong. Perhaps I misinterpreted the choices. Perhaps they were ambiguous. Perhaps I'm just a moron.

Unfortunately, it's been a while since I played(?) read(?) your visual novel (I'm obviously confused about how I should characterize how one experiences this type of media) and I can't recall what choices I made or why I made them. I do know that I didn't know or understand the characters in the beginning as well as I would have later on in the story. I can see myself making some wrong choices/responses just based on the wrong assumption that Eve rebellious wild youth that everyone thinks that she is. I'm not sure that this is what happened, but I can see that as a possibility.

Another possibility is that I simply didn't understand the choices, or maybe even what the characters where thinking and feeling. Text can be ambiguous like that. One example of the latter, that I actually do remember, is the last interaction between in Even and the MC (at least it was the last interaction when I played it.) Eve revealed to her brother that
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Either way, I don't think I'm going to trust myself to make the right choices. If others want to experience the VN at the seat of their pants and see where their own choices eventually lead them, then that's fine; it's just not for me. While I will eagerly continue reading this VN . . . I'm going to do so while hugging the living crap out of a guide in order to keep myself from wasting a precious day off from work.

About the Psycho twins being black. That topic bothers me.
It's probably a cultural thing. White, black, red or any other color, that doesn't make a difference to me. They're not the bad guys because they're black, and I never thought that it will enforce any kind of stereotype. I have some other characters of color that are more positive. You only met Kelly so far but some others are coming in more minor roles.
I suppose that it depends on where you're from. I'm from the United States. Our entire history can be summed up as a giant contradiction between championing freedom and denying it to a huge portion of our population. If one were to point a gun at my head and ask what the single most prominent running theme driving the history of our culture is, then it would have to be the great divide between white and black.

The characterization of black men as rapists seeking to victimize white women has long been a favorite fear-mongering propaganda tool among white-supremacists. Sadly, this characterization was the motivation behind many lynchings. If you are not from the U.S., then I could see how something like this never crossed your mind at all, but for those of us who grew up here, it's pretty hard to escape the implications of two of the only black characters (so far) in a story being rapists. I never actually thought of Kelly as anything but really tan. >_<

May the filmmakers who created 'A Birth of a Nation' and similar propaganda-pieces rot in hell.

Either way, your affirmation that this was in no way intentional is all I need to rest my concerns. It's good to hear it from the horse's mouth.

And to go further, are the psycho twins really evil ? They sure are presented that way, but are they really ?
Well, I mean you just characterized them as 'psycho'. If they can be diagnosed as being either psychopaths or sociopaths, then that means that they have an extremely diminished or completely absent capacity for empathy. People with these personality disorders simply lack the ability to care about or love others the way you or I would/can. If there's a such a thing as 'true evil', then I would say that 'psychos' fit the bill about as well as anyone could.

That said, we're talking about rape. It's a cruel, dehumanizing act. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on the subject, but it's my understanding that rapists tend to display Perhaps the one-time drunkard who doesn't stop at 'no' the one time might be able to feel remorse, but generally speaking, rapists don't. Here, we're talking about two guys who are actively seeking to harm a young woman in retaliation for what they perceive as a transgression on the part of her father. That sounds pretty freaking evil, any way one spins it.

We're talking about a pre-meditated attempt at rape, for the sake of retaliation--for the sake of inflicting cruelty, and towards an indirect target at that! I don't personally think that these guys could be redeemed if they are willing and capable of something even remotely like this.

When I was still running around in fanfiction circles (eh, rather not talk about it, lol) the majority of authors handling of this type of subject-matter was often cited as a huge pet-peeve. Attempting to redeem a rapist or attempting to get readers to empathize with them just sounds like the writing equivalent of running around with a live grenade to me.

I have no idea how much research you've put into the subject or what you're planning, but I'm sure that even if I don't agree with whatever you decide with your antagonists, that it won't dissuade me from reading. Ultimately, I'm in it for the unusual romance going on with the main characters (and well, also my own perversion).
 

MisterDan

Member
Feb 20, 2019
112
132
You have been told by Eve and Cassie numurous times that their bond is special and neither want's to risk loosing the other. Don't blame the author for you ignoring the not so subtle clues you've been given.
 

fortuna95

Lezz kiss for peace!
Donor
Feb 7, 2018
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:eek::love:
1643835210406.png

#Random Render - 2022 February #1 - Yes, of course, Sunshine...

Jack: "Holy mother of God."
Cassie: "Holy mother of God."
Jack: "Did she forget her swimsuit?"
Cassie: "She didn't notice us."
Jack: "She's going to kill me if she catches me peeping on her."
Cassie: "I will kill you first if you don't stop gazing at her."
Jack: "I... Yes, of course, Sunshine..."
 

The Naughty Captain

Active Member
Game Developer
Aug 21, 2019
780
2,302
I didn't mean to imply that I have a problem with a disturbing bad end. It's quite the sucker-punch, and kudos to that. It's just that when I was playing the game, I really had no idea how I got to that point or what I did wrong. Perhaps I misinterpreted the choices. Perhaps they were ambiguous. Perhaps I'm just a moron.

Unfortunately, it's been a while since I played(?) read(?) your visual novel (I'm obviously confused about how I should characterize how one experiences this type of media) and I can't recall what choices I made or why I made them. I do know that I didn't know or understand the characters in the beginning as well as I would have later on in the story. I can see myself making some wrong choices/responses just based on the wrong assumption that Eve rebellious wild youth that everyone thinks that she is. I'm not sure that this is what happened, but I can see that as a possibility.

Another possibility is that I simply didn't understand the choices, or maybe even what the characters where thinking and feeling. Text can be ambiguous like that.
There is no clear choice. Right from the start of the game, I choose not to make consequences obvious right from the moment you make a choice. I wanted it to feel a bit like a real-life chain of events, where you could say something innocent, and that could combine behind the scene with something else, and have unexpected results. There is logic in the chain of events, but the player probably won't get that logic until he understands the characters.



One example of the latter, that I actually do remember, is the last interaction between in Even and the MC (at least it was the last interaction when I played it.) Eve revealed to her brother that
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Jack is angry for many reasons. Jealousy isn't one of them. If you played all paths, you can learn that Jack only really hates two kinds of people: Himself, and the ones who even just think about hurting Eve. When Eve tells him about the skirt thing, Jack has only two things in mind: "I wasn't there. It's my fault." and "I'm going to kill these motherfuckers."

Eve has her own reasons to react as she does. But I can't spoil that part here. Anyway, for both her and Jack, the discussion was driven by raw emotions and impulses. Neither of them really meant what he said nor was angry at the other.




Either way, I don't think I'm going to trust myself to make the right choices. If others want to experience the VN at the seat of their pants and see where their own choices eventually lead them, then that's fine; it's just not for me. While I will eagerly continue reading this VN . . . I'm going to do so while hugging the living crap out of a guide in order to keep myself from wasting a precious day off from work.
That's a valid way of playing.

I suppose that it depends on where you're from. I'm from the United States. Our entire history can be summed up as a giant contradiction between championing freedom and denying it to a huge portion of our population. If one were to point a gun at my head and ask what the single most prominent running theme driving the history of our culture is, then it would have to be the great divide between white and black.

The characterization of black men as rapists seeking to victimize white women has long been a favorite fear-mongering propaganda tool among white-supremacists. Sadly, this characterization was the motivation behind many lynchings. If you are not from the U.S., then I could see how something like this never crossed your mind at all, but for those of us who grew up here, it's pretty hard to escape the implications of two of the only black characters (so far) in a story being rapists. I never actually thought of Kelly as anything but really tan. >_<

May the filmmakers who created 'A Birth of a Nation' and similar propaganda-pieces rot in hell.

Either way, your affirmation that this was in no way intentional is all I need to rest my concerns. It's good to hear it from the horse's mouth.
I'm from France. I don't know if it's enough to explain anything.


Well, I mean you just characterized them as 'psycho'. If they can be diagnosed as being either psychopaths or sociopaths, then that means that they have an extremely diminished or completely absent capacity for empathy. People with these personality disorders simply lack the ability to care about or love others the way you or I would/can. If there's a such a thing as 'true evil', then I would say that 'psychos' fit the bill about as well as anyone could.

That said, we're talking about rape. It's a cruel, dehumanizing act. I'm not going to pretend to be an expert on the subject, but it's my understanding that rapists tend to display Perhaps the one-time drunkard who doesn't stop at 'no' the one time might be able to feel remorse, but generally speaking, rapists don't. Here, we're talking about two guys who are actively seeking to harm a young woman in retaliation for what they perceive as a transgression on the part of her father. That sounds pretty freaking evil, any way one spins it.

We're talking about a pre-meditated attempt at rape, for the sake of retaliation--for the sake of inflicting cruelty, and towards an indirect target at that! I don't personally think that these guys could be redeemed if they are willing and capable of something even remotely like this.

When I was still running around in fanfiction circles (eh, rather not talk about it, lol) the majority of authors handling of this type of subject-matter was often cited as a huge pet-peeve. Attempting to redeem a rapist or attempting to get readers to empathize with them just sounds like the writing equivalent of running around with a live grenade to me.

I have no idea how much research you've put into the subject or what you're planning, but I'm sure that even if I don't agree with whatever you decide with your antagonists, that it won't dissuade me from reading. Ultimately, I'm in it for the unusual romance going on with the main characters (and well, also my own perversion).
Ahm..... Oui ?

"Psycho twins" is the way Jack and the girls name them. That doesn't mean it's accurate.

Their actions are evil. There is no doubt about that. But can we say the same about the character themselves? If we consider that they have been driven mad by the loss of both their mother and their father, are they still responsible? As Kelly said, younger, they weren't like that. So we could argue that something changed them and they may even be seen as some kind of victims of the actions of someone else. They are troubled minds who live in their own reality. For them, the real evil is the one who took their parents.

Does that make them and their actions forgivable? I don't think so.
Can they be redeemed? I don't think so either.

I don't think you can really empathize with them. It shouldn't be possible to understand their choices nor find any logic or reason in their behaviour.

I'll use a metaphor I've been saving for a later episode of the game :

They are like dogs with rabies.
You can feel sorry for them.
You will still put them down.
 

sorco2003

Well-Known Member
Sep 3, 2020
1,885
13,862
"Psycho twins" is the way Jack and the girls name them. That doesn't mean it's accurate.

Their actions are evil. There is no doubt about that. But can we say the same about the character themselves? If we consider that they have been driven mad by the loss of both their mother and their father, are they still responsible? As Kelly said, younger, they weren't like that. So we could argue that something changed them and they may even be seen as some kind of victims of the actions of someone else. They are troubled minds who live in their own reality. For them, the real evil is the one who took their parents.

Does that make them and their actions forgivable? I don't think so.
Can they be redeemed? I don't think so either.

I don't think you can really empathize with them. It shouldn't be possible to understand their choices nor find any logic or reason in their behaviour.

I'll use a metaphor I've been saving for a later episode of the game :

They are like dogs with rabies.
You can feel sorry for them.
You will still put them down.
This here, it seems to me, is an invitation to a philosophical debate about rehabilitation versus punishment. Guaranty versus criminality. I don't think this is the place for something that big. But, in this case, and I believe that in any case of rape, and more a premeditated rape, with the only objective of harming a specific person, whose actions derived in the loss of loved ones, there is no way not to understand it as "evil". If the revenge was only to kill Cassie, we could begin to discuss if there is any other way to think of these characters, but no, they have instigated, planned and executed an action that not only does not deserve any forgiveness, it does not even deserve to be considered to bring up any kind of mental illness, because that would be a technicality that in my country would take him to a mental institution and not to jail.
And it seems to me cheating on your part Captain, to bring this up, since you are the author, only you know what the future holds, even, only you know 100% of the motivations of your creations. At the same time, it is you who must accept that the majority of us see these twins as evil.
 
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The Naughty Captain

Active Member
Game Developer
Aug 21, 2019
780
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This here, it seems to me, is an invitation to a philosophical debate about rehabilitation versus punishment. Guaranty versus criminality. I don't think this is the place for something that big. But, in this case, and I believe that in any case of rape, and more a premeditated rape, with the only objective of harming a specific person, whose actions derived in the loss of loved ones, there is no way not to understand it as "evil". If the revenge was only to kill Cassie, we could begin to discuss if there is any other way to think of these characters, but no, they have instigated, planned and executed an action that not only does not deserve any forgiveness, it does not even deserve to be considered to bring up any kind of mental illness, because that would be a technicality that in my country would take him to a mental institution and not to jail.
And it seems to me cheating on your part Captain, to bring this up, since you are the author, only you know what the future holds, even, only you know 100% of the motivations of your creations. At the same time, it is you who must accept that the majority of us see these twins as evil.
I agree completely.
And I accept without any problem that you may see them as evil. I do see them as evil myself. I believe that should be the normal emotional response.

But I'm talking more about the analytical response. The one that could have legal repercussions, as you mention them.

But anyway, You are right. This isn't the place for a debate I actually didn't intend to instigate.
 
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