gyshia915

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Oct 18, 2022
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I did some research to find alternative classification that are closer to what you were talking about. There's the pscyhopathy checklist that is sometimes used in criminal psychiatry. I think it can be reliable.

It ignores sociopathy. Like I said, sociopathy is just a popularized term used in different contexts. Instead, it makes a distinction between a person with antisocial personality disorder and a psychopath. A person with APD has a much higher risk of suicide than a psychopath who essentially should not have feelings of remorse and guilt. Simply put, a person with APD could be Bella and a psychopath is a typical recidivist criminal or a serial killer who also does not suffer from other disorders that can provoke a suicide attempt.

When the final version comes out and I play Bella path, I will check your theory by comparing her to the description of APD in the DSM. Or you can do it, there's not much to read.



As for Vanessa's case. I think we both made the wrong conclusions about her. Yes, she shares some traits that are very relevant in a person with antisocial personality disorder (sociopath/psychopath, whatever). But none of them are her predominant personality trait. Her core is narcissism. So instead of antisocial disorder, she may have narcissistic personality disorder. From what I've read, the problem is that they are on the same spectrum and are so similar that in practice it's sometimes difficult to determine which of these two disorders a person has.

People with antisocial and narcissistic personality disorders are tough-minded, exploitative, manipulative, egocentric, and deceptive. Vanessa has all these traits. However, narcissistic personality disorder does not always include impulsivity and aggressive. Vanessa is actually pretty bad at hiding her negative emotions, but she can control herself. When Nika makes verbal attacks towards her, she shows this angry face :mad: and then tries to cover her dissatisfied reaction behind a fake smile. She would be much more hot-tempered if she had APD. She also doesn't have any history of bad behavior in childhood or criminal behavior in adulthood, at least we don't know anything about it. Otherwise her childhood would be more like the one Leia and William had. Vanessa with APD is basically Leia minus her affection for her brother. Finally, people with APD do not crave admiration and envy and do not reflect it on others as passionately as Vanessa does.

She is obsessed with self-praise and self-love to the point where she more-likely sees it as the purpose of her life. It's the difference between being a narcissist and having a narcissistic disorder. We all know she's a narcissist, but it's one thing to have a tendency toward it, and another to have it as a major trait that interferes your daily life.

From DSM
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Now her behavior becomes clearer and more consistent. "That dumbo can't talk about anything but fashion and how she used to buy this and that-" said Bella after meeting her. I thought she suspected Bella and outplayed her, but maybe she didn't, she was true self the whole time. But that doesn't mean she's less intelligent and manipulative she seemed to be before. It's just that her abilities are actually limited by her disorder.

She's probably not too emotional, as people with NPD are described here. But everyone is different, even those who have common mental illnesses, they can still be predisposed to one or another behavior. Besides, we haven't seen her under real pressure. If Nika starts acting too aggressively towards her or ignoring her new attempts to get his attention, she may experience an emotional breakdown. And if that happens, then she will take off her fake mask of coldness, and we can definitely say that she indeed suffers from NPD.

My only problem with her having NPD was that she also praises the looks of people around her. I thought it contradicted narcissistic disorder. But I was wrong and they actually do it: "They may feel that they can only be understood by, and should only associate with, other people who are special or of high status and may attribute “unique,” “perfect,” or “gifted” qualities to those with whom they associate. Their own self-esteem is enhanced (i.e., “mirrored”) by the idealized value that they assign to those with whom they associate."

Damn. I may be reading too much into it as usual, but I think what we have under the spoiler is the most accurate and detailed description of Vanessa possible. I didn't compare her to the description of antisocial personality disorder though. Think I'll do it later. But I'm almost certainly sure that she indeed has one of those two personality disorders. Most likely narcissistic. Her behavior is too odd, but consistent, and falls perfectly under each point of the description above.
Great post.

From those 9 points that define the Narcissistic Personality Disorder, I see all of them but the 6 and 7 in Vanessa. She still could have the 6 too, but I'd need to see more scenes of her to define her behaviour as exploitative in the way that is described there... not for now.

You mentioned Leia. In Leia I see the traits of 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 9... I had doubts with the 8 but she has it too. Almost the 7, but her relationship with William shows otherwise.
 

N1ghtcrawler

Member
May 29, 2023
151
4,188
Not even the one with Bella ditching the race , sniffing the MC's jacket and crying as she drives to the MC's house. That cinematics spoke to me. Before I liked Bella but wasnt a huge fan of hers other than the dialogue and banter. after seeing that cinematic again when i replayed the game on my personal AVN LI list Bella went from top 25 - 30 or so to being tied for my #1 LI. But maybe I have a bit of a bias but I feel like that cinematic is the best one in the game imo.
I didn't play her path, so I didn't see this cinematic.

I don't see her as a possible love interest for my Nika, though I'd like to see her try to change that for the sake of a more interesting and tense relationship dynamic between them. But primarily I like her as a girl buddy that Nika gets into trouble with. So I don't mind her having more screen time than the other girls at all. Because she's still the third main character next to Nika and Nami.
While it's true that Vic's incident put Nika on this path, the one who really triggers him to start fixing his life is Nami, as seen after visiting Victoria at the hospital in chapter 1.
All the other girls matter too in some way later, but it's Nami who prompted him to change.
Nah. I see the car accident and the scene at the the physiotherapist as significantly more impactful to the story and the character.
Great post.

From those 9 points that define the Narcissistic Personality Disorder, I see all of them but the 6 and 7 in Vanessa. She still could have the 6 too, but I'd need to see more scenes of her to define her behaviour as exploitative in the way that is described there... not for now.

You mentioned Leia. In Leia I see the traits of 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 9... I had doubts with the 8 but she has it too. Almost the 7, but her relationship with William shows otherwise.
Thanks. :) But these traits is for narcissistic personality disorder not antisocial and Leia definitely doesn't have NPD.
I don't see Leia having APD either. Despite her acts of aggression, she shows too strong and long-lasting attachment to William.

As for Vanessa, I think she's already shown a lack of empathy, if it's not about praising the looks of others.
 

Dessolos

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Jul 25, 2017
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I didn't play her path, so I didn't see this cinematic.

I don't see her as a possible love interest for my Nika, though I'd like to see her try to change that for the sake of a more interesting and tense relationship dynamic between them. But primarily I like her as a girl buddy that Nika gets into trouble with. So I don't mind her having more screen time than the other girls at all. Because she's still the third main character next to Nika and Nami.
Fair enough I thought the same until somewhere along the way I changed my mind on my first playthrough haha not sure what changed my mind anymore. Probably was something simple like I loved her banter and dynamic with the MC not sure . I was only interested in Victoria initially.
 

mostwanted8

Active Member
Mar 8, 2024
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*sigh* It was only the first season. There are at least 25 more chapters ahead.
Before chapter 4, hardly anyone thought that Zara would have so much screen time and development.
I read this later... We still have 25 chapters, so what? We can judge what we have now. My point stands, Victoria is still somewhat badly executed compared with Mila, whose arch is much more cohesive. Or even worst Sasha, Zara, Nia and even Vanessa, all of whom had much less screen.
Nah. I see the car accident and the scene at the the physiotherapist as significantly more impactful to the story and the character.
Agree to disagree, he's fucked without Nami. She's his conscience, without her he wouldn't know what to make of the incident.
There's a pattern whenever he has to make sense of things that he goes to Nami.
 
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Doomyk

Member
Jun 7, 2019
433
872
While it's true that Vic's incident put Nika on this path, the one who really triggers him to start fixing his life is Nami, as seen after visiting Victoria at the hospital in chapter 1.
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All the other girls matter too in some way later, but it's Nami who prompted him to change.
The one who is primarily responsible for the improvement is Nika himself. Bella also plays a significant role and Nami plays a rather large role. But, I want to emphasize that Nika copes well at his own pace, and the best thing is when he accepts his own the decision itself, without forcing it. The scene with Nami in the hospital does not paint her at all, because she yells at the whole hospital and makes personal display to other people and her words, as if with a click you can let go of complete fucked up too.

One of the main reasons why Victoria is a big no for me, even as a friend, is precisely because of crap in the style of *fate*, *not a coincidence*, etc. Forcing relationships and imposing them through privileges only irritates me even more. Compare for yourself. The path of Bella and Nami (the public's favorites) and how easy it is to get out of their path, and the complete opposite - Victoria, the only character whose path, on the contrary, is very difficult to get out of, without knowing the passage and the only character whose path gives an additional fitness point. And to a lesser extent, but still a similar situation with the characters Nia, Zara and Nadya. Among the trio who participated in the incident with handcuffs, only Robin sincerely apologizes and we even have the opportunity not to forgive or keep on the hook. Whereas Zara and Nadya literally forced. Nya, with her bonuses from the agreement, go to her (much better game in the hall) there too.
 

mostwanted8

Active Member
Mar 8, 2024
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The one who is primarily responsible for the improvement is Nika himself. Bella also plays a significant role and Nami plays a rather large role. But, I want to emphasize that Nika copes well at his own pace, and the best thing is when he accepts his own the decision itself, without forcing it. The scene with Nami in the hospital does not paint her at all, because she yells at the whole hospital and makes personal display to other people and her words, as if with a click you can let go of complete fucked up too.

One of the main reasons why Victoria is a big no for me, even as a friend, is precisely because of crap in the style of *fate*, *not a coincidence*, etc. Forcing relationships and imposing them through privileges only irritates me even more. Compare for yourself. The path of Bella and Nami (the public's favorites) and how easy it is to get out of their path, and the complete opposite - Victoria, the only character whose path, on the contrary, is very difficult to get out of, without knowing the passage and the only character whose path gives an additional fitness point. And to a lesser extent, but still a similar situation with the characters Nia, Zara and Nadya. Among the trio who participated in the incident with handcuffs, only Robin sincerely apologizes and we even have the opportunity not to forgive or keep on the hook. Whereas Zara and Nadya literally forced. Nya, with her bonuses from the agreement, go to her (much better game in the hall) there too.
It doesn't matter how Nami did it, it's what she said that matters. She said exactly what Nika needed to hear to snap out of it. She was the only one who could do such a thing cause she knows him so well and they share a deep bond.
Of course Nika is determinant in his own redemption but Nami is the closest person to him. Even if you're not on her path she's the one person he confides in and shares his struggles with more openly, more than anyone else, even Bella on Bella's path. This game would be much more different without Nami, with a darker Nika. He would be alone in his own mind, and Nojiko wouldn’t be able to help him, not like Nami can.

Agree with the second part.
 
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rmz666

Newbie
Jul 12, 2021
29
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No kidding, I said it a while back, Vic looks like she has had one too many trips at the surgeon last year.
These are some of the best examples.
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They almost all look like weird abominations by now, wether it be Mila gaining 100lbs, Bella's face getting changed or Ayua changing from Asian babe to generic black haired girl #56. Almost none of the girls we fell in love with are still in the game. It's maddening honestly. Can't wait till he gets to Nami and fucks her up too. Maybe some DDD deformed tits? Or make her thighs wider than MCs torso like what happened to Mila...
 

N1ghtcrawler

Member
May 29, 2023
151
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Fair enough I thought the same until somewhere along the way I changed my mind on my first playthrough haha not sure what changed my mind anymore. Probably was something simple like I loved her banter and dynamic with the MC not sure . I was only interested in Victoria initially.
It's not that I like or dislike Bella. I don't care about my personal preferences for LIs (for a possible extent) and I don't see myself in Nika's shoes like some do here. I just want to make a good story out of this game. Initially, I was targeting Zara despite that her appearance is not to my taste. But it just so happened that Vanessa meets all my requirements. I like her looks, her image, and her potential role. Right now, she fits perfectly. If her looks didn't appeal to me, I'd still go after her. Ideally, I want to make Nika and Vanessa enemies. I like the trope "from-enemies-to-lovers" and I think it suits this game. This trope is quite popular, but it's usually easy stuff where two people just don't like each other or they are kinda "enemies" who quickly come to realize that they're actually made for each other. But I want real hardcore. To such an extent that their enmity will begin to ruin the lives of both of them and others. Nika must develop romantic relationships with other LIs, but only so that these relationships do not succeed. I want LIs to compete with each other for Nika. This is especially true for Bella and Zara. Right now, I don't plan to play Bella's path in my main playthrough, but if it turns out that her path can be ruined the way I want (through her competition with Zara, for example), I will certainly play her path. I will play Nami path, but I will not follow it to the end. And If Vanessa finds out about their relationship and uses it against Nika, that would be great. Right now I'm planning a throuple with Vanessa and Victoria. Given Vic's storyline, I think ending the story with her as well would be perfect.

Of course, there's me and my plans and there's Ocean and his plans. But if I manage to create a story at least slightly similar to what I described above, I will be very happy. :)
 

Dessolos

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Jul 25, 2017
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It's not that I like or dislike Bella. I don't care about my personal preferences for LIs (for a possible extent) and I don't see myself in Nika's shoes like some do here. I just want to make a good story out of this game. Initially, I was targeting Zara despite that her appearance is not to my taste. But it just so happened that Vanessa meets all my requirements. I like her looks, her image, and her potential role. Right now, she fits perfectly. If her looks didn't appeal to me, I'd still go after her. Ideally, I want to make Nika and Vanessa enemies. I like the trope "from-enemies-to-lovers" and I think it suits this game. This trope is quite popular, but it's usually easy stuff where two people just don't like each other or they are kinda "enemies" who quickly come to realize that they're actually made for each other. But I want real hardcore. To such an extent that their enmity will begin to ruin the lives of both of them and others. Nika must develop romantic relationships with other LIs, but only so that these relationships do not succeed. I want LIs to compete with each other for Nika. This is especially true for Bella and Zara. Right now, I don't plan to play Bella's path in my main playthrough, but if it turns out that her path can be ruined the way I want (through her competition with Zara, for example), I will certainly play her path. I will play Nami path, but I will not follow it to the end. And If Vanessa finds out about their relationship and uses it against Nika, that would be great. Right now I'm planning a throuple with Vanessa and Victoria. Given Vic's storyline, I think ending the story with her as well would be perfect.

Of course, there's me and my plans and there's Ocean and his plans. But if I manage to create a story at least slightly similar to what I described above, I will be very happy. :)
must say that's a interesting way to play , I can 100% see that too if you only play very few paths. Unlike someone like me that will play all eventually, except characters I dislike / hate ( Vanessa and Robin) at least I wont play those paths for a long time if this game ever gets finished or closed to finished haha.
 

AlexFXR

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Sep 24, 2023
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thats it, if the steam release is suppose to attact a new fan base, then the people that play it will play a so called adult visual novel with zero nudes and zero adult content, so are they suppose to be looking forward to season 2 with the thought of oh joy let me support this developer on pateron with a monthy amount that puts out zero lewds in his game, how are they suppose to take away the summers gone steam version with any hope to see any of the females naked and in sex scenes for the future. i know i would not, i would not want to support a developer if i played there so called adult visual novel with no adult content what so ever. you have to think about a fresh new player and their mindset buying summers gone and what they will take away from playing it .are they suppose to be excited for the story full of beautiful women that are fully dressed, i would imagine not. especially when it is marked as a adult visual novel and it is played like a visual novel. a person will buy an adult visual novel to see naked women and sex scenes if they buy this adult visual novel and it has zero naked women and sex scene they will not be encouraged to support this developer anymore i imagine. if they wanted just story they would buy a visual novel. is the point to hook them with story by buying summers gone on steam and then have them support on patreon with a monthy pledge to still see very little lewd content and have to wait for a long time to see maybe a handjob in a year or so and maybe a blowjob maybe 2 and 1/2 years , let alone any real sex with any of the females and you will probaly have to choose who you have sex with ,you will not be given the choice to have sex with them all i imagine, summers gone is not a harem game.
You're right, there are a lot of strange things associated with Steam. Here's an example: Ocean put SG into Steam with the 16+ category, while the second season will have sex scenes, and this is already the 18+ category. He simply won’t be able to combine seasons 1 and 2 because of this, he will have to either rate the first season at 18+, or make the 2nd season without sex scenes. I think no one will like it.
 

Don Sucio

Well-Known Member
Jan 17, 2021
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Yeah I think the only people that won't get it on steam or the ones that hate the edits / censorship , they barley or dont use steam so it isn't convenient for them like it is for me.
Me, for example. I´m more of a console gamer so i barely use Steam, i have some games there sure but is not my normal place for play. And if in the Patreon version i can see some more boobs...Well, is silly and i know it but i like boobs :LOL:
 
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BobTheDuck

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Dec 24, 2018
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Me, for example. I´m more of a console gamer so i barely use Steam, i have some games there sure but is not my normal place for play. And if in the Patreon version i can see some more boobs...Well, is silly and i know it but i like boobs :LOL:
Where are people getting the idea that there is an uncensored/different patreon version? As far as I could tell from the devlog, there's only one version, and those are the list of things he has changed. Doesn't matter where you get it, it will be the same. In the dev log, Ocean talks about things he changed in the rework as part of the 2304 renders he did, not things he changed for Steam. SO when he made Amber's blouse opaque, it's because it was a cheap way to show her pierced nipples, but she wouldn't do that as a professional. Same sort of thing, Ocean's changed a bunch of things, not to censor, but to make it more cohesive. Amber's change has nothing to do with censoring it for steam, as there already is partial nudity mentioned to make it pegi 16. Nami's lake thing is probably a nervous Ocean censorship, more to do with making it squeaky clean for patreon.

These are my opinions, but nowhere have I seen mention of a separate patreon version from anything Ocean has said.

:KEK: :KEK: :KEK:
Have you even played SG?

First of all, his dick works fine, but unfortunately it only works in one direction - Summer's dead pussy.

Second, Nami, roleplaying Summer, was able to make him get a boner.

Third, when the MC allowed Nami to move her buttocks on his dick in jacuzzi, he suddenly discovered that his dick was alive again. So, it's not just dead Summer's pussy that's actually working.

Four, the game doesn't yet say what exactly caused his panic attacks, but now they happen quite regularly. The more body contact he has, the stronger the blow. He lost in the college hallway surrounded by a bunch of girls, he had a panic attack. A threesome kiss with Vic and Mila - he had to retreat to the bathroom and experience a panic attack. He was having fun at a book club - panic attack. Do you really think getting more intimate with Bella is a good idea until he deals with this shit?

The game kinda hints that this idea is not very good. And it seems obvious that until he and Amber visit the damn cabin, he will not make any progress in solving this problem.
Hey yossa, I found further reasons why you're right about this, Ocean thinks panic attacks occur to SG'd MC because well... ....in his own words (from the devlog):

After I checked my backups and saw that Backblaze forgot about 30% of the files, I can tell you... I almost pulled an SG MC after he had too much contact with some girls.
 

Krytax123

Engaged Member
Dec 29, 2022
2,545
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Where are people getting the idea that there is an uncensored/different patreon version? As far as I could tell from the devlog, there's only one version, and those are the list of things he has changed. Doesn't matter where you get it, it will be the same. In the dev log, Ocean talks about things he changed in the rework as part of the 2304 renders he did, not things he changed for Steam. SO when he made Amber's blouse opaque, it's because it was a cheap way to show her pierced nipples, but she wouldn't do that as a professional. Same sort of thing, Ocean's changed a bunch of things, not to censor, but to make it more cohesive. Amber's change has nothing to do with censoring it for steam, as there already is partial nudity mentioned to make it pegi 16. Nami's lake thing is probably a nervous Ocean censorship, more to do with making it squeaky clean for patreon.

These are my opinions, but nowhere have I seen mention of a separate patreon version from anything Ocean has said.



Hey yossa, I found further reasons why you're right about this, Ocean thinks panic attacks occur to SG'd MC because well... ....in his own words (from the devlog):
Uhhh didnt followed the discussion but im pretty sure it was either mentioned in a changelog or i saw someone copying a discord statement from ocean that the steam and patreon versions will indeed be different. I think it was the Nami lake scene, shes is (and stays) topless in the patreon version but not in the steam version if i remember it correctly.

The fixes/changes like ambers blouse was a different statement and are happening in every version
 

Dessolos

Message Maven
Jul 25, 2017
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Uhhh didnt followed the discussion but im pretty sure it was either mentioned in a changelog or i saw someone copying a discord statement from ocean that the steam and patreon versions will indeed be different. I think it was the Nami lake scene, shes is (and stays) topless in the patreon version but not in the steam version if i remember it correctly.
Yeah i remember reading and seeing the discord message posted in this thread as well 2-3 days ago
 

BobTheDuck

Engaged Member
Dec 24, 2018
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Uhhh didnt followed the discussion but im pretty sure it was either mentioned in a changelog or i saw someone copying a discord statement from ocean that the steam and patreon versions will indeed be different. I think it was the Nami lake scene, shes is (and stays) topless in the patreon version but not in the steam version if i remember it correctly.

The fixes/changes like ambers blouse was a different statement and are happening in every version
Yeah i remember reading and seeing the discord message posted in this thread as well 2-3 days ago
I searched back to the start of March, nothing a non-subscriber can see posted by Ocean regards this. If you saw it, it was another user either with more status sharing crumbs, or someone starting a rumour.
 

Dessolos

Message Maven
Jul 25, 2017
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I searched back to the start of March, nothing a non-subscriber can see posted by Ocean regards this. If you saw it, it was another user either with more status sharing crumbs, or someone starting a rumour.
actually just recall it was a reply someone did to me. Here is the screenshot they posted in their reply at least when it comes to Nami being topless at the lake

1712457566866.png
 

BobTheDuck

Engaged Member
Dec 24, 2018
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actually just recall it was a reply someone did to me. Here is the screenshot they posted in their reply at least when it comes to Nami being topless at the lake

View attachment 3517777
Well there you go, that doesn't show up anymore in the general chat. Looks like Ocean deleted his response, or hid it. I'm not a fan of discord, it moves to fast for me :sneaky:

Thanks for clearing that up!
 
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