'm starting to think about this in a slightly different way - the way Nika took the money was out of character. Consider the way he is so proper about the holy box of shame, accusing Nami of having no respect, same with Nick's motorbike. His whole character is reserved about belongings and hard work. He is not an opportunist, or chaotic. Even his mantra of actions having consequences goes against what he did.If you chose not to go on the heist, he still wants Bella to know, so he 'does the right thing' as he's going on the heist to make up for the asshole he was to her.
I think on the contrary, it was completely in character of the MC. In Maja's case, you used the keyword "respect" and this explains his behavior perfectly. He and Maja are still playing their little game where they pretend they don't even like each other and tolerate each other's presence just for the Vic's sake.
MC understands perfectly how difficult it is for Maja, paying for treatment, caring for a cripple; and he respects her for this. I think he even draws parallels between her and Noji, who allows the job she hates to suck the life out of her, but continues to work for the well-being of her loved ones. Nika can be an asshole sometimes or just provoke people out of curiosity, but he still doesn't cross a certain line with people he considers friends. He respects Maja's privacy and is pissed by the drunken baboons who are jumping over her private belongings.
And while visiting Nick, he understands well that Nick is important to Noji. He promised Noji that they would behave, so he naturally holds Nami back when she is about to go into full cheeto mode.
But in the situation with Mario, there is nothing holding him back, Mario is an asshole who bullied Mila, so Nika literally makes him pay for what he did. And it is completely in his nature sometimes to rush into a conflict without thinking about the consequences, we know about this from his conversations with Amber. He even stole Bella's sandwich and gummy bears!
Sometimes it's funny. He accuses Bella of being arrogant, but he often behave the same way himself. At one point he says these big words about how he is in control, how he manipulate certain events behind the scene and how actions have consequences. But the next moment he behaves like a careless fool who does not think about the consequences, as in the case of this theft.
That has to be it because I know people can't be mad at dialogue changes, because ain't no way people remember any of the dialogue in these visual novels.
Man, I'm mad because I can't tell Vic about the dolphin rapists. This completely destroys our chemistry. The game is ruined. R-U-I-N-E-D!
Oh, yeah, Maja also promised earlier to shove something incredibly big into Nika’s ass. Where did my kinky girl disappear?
I think on the contrary, it was completely in character of the MC. In Maja's case, you used the keyword "respect" and this explains his behavior perfectly. He and Maja are still playing their little game where they pretend they don't even like each other and tolerate each other's presence just for the Vic's sake.
MC understands perfectly how difficult it is for Maja, paying for treatment, caring for a cripple; and he respects her for this. I think he even draws parallels between her and Noji, who allows the job she hates to suck the life out of her, but continues to work for the well-being of her loved ones. Nika can be an asshole sometimes or just provoke people out of curiosity, but he still doesn't cross a certain line with people he considers friends. He respects Maja's privacy and is pissed by the drunken baboons who are jumping over her private belongings.
And while visiting Nick, he understands well that Nick is important to Noji. He promised Noji that they would behave, so he naturally holds Nami back when she is about to go into full cheeto mode.
But in the situation with Mario, there is nothing holding him back, Mario is an asshole who bullied Mila, so Nika literally makes him pay for what he did. And it is completely in his nature sometimes to rush into a conflict without thinking about the consequences, we know about this from his conversations with Amber. He even stole Bella's sandwich and gummy bears!
Sometimes it's funny. He accuses Bella of being arrogant, but he often behave the same way himself. At one point he says these big words about how he is in control, how he manipulate certain events behind the scene and how actions have consequences. But the next moment he behaves like a careless fool who does not think about the consequences, as in the case of this theft.
My main thought is that he demands that Bella respect people and not treat them differently because they're poor, he does the same with Zara and Vanessa, then acts like a cliche'd poor person whose first thought is to steal. In this sense Mila shows motivation that her social behaviour shouldn't be dictated to by her finances, but Nika provides reasons for Bella to continue thinking of him as poor trash - despite arguing that all people deserve respect regardless of financial situations, Nika actively works against this premise that he is so passionate about.
It still seems out of character to me - he argues for the moral high ground while acting like a two bit thief. It's easy to write off the holy box of shame as being something he's uncomfortable with, except he had no reaction to Bella's box of shame, or Nia's. So the respect is the same that he attacks Nami over when she invades his privacy - it is based on personal space, and he believes that people need space and trust, which implies that people's belongings are part of their personal space (as is shown by the way he resents Nami continually entering his room, changing the shades and going through his stuff).
Sure he can demonise Mario, but the money is not seen as an act of revenge, but as an opportunity to have money. Nika's almost ambivilent to the heirloom, and seems mostly satisfied with the prank aspect of petty vandalism. That's why the money aspect feels out of character to me. And Ocean can write it off as 'everyone's a hypocrite' but that's lazy, and Nika's character would be more compelling if he was just along for the ride with Bella after the petty prank with the car (like his petty theft of the sandwich), like he is for almost every other part of their interaction. SO I get his vengeful nature, the money is termed as opportunity rather than vengeance.
The gummy bears were not theft, that's just obnoxious behaviour as a guest, continuing on his petty revenge for Nami by riling Bella, again, the vengeance rather than opportunistic. But also you are right about accusing Bella for the same shit he does, they are the same puzzle piece after all I guess
I have no likes left, but yes I agree, there needs to be some sort of recognition in the story that they are not heroes, that there are no excuses for that behaviour. Nika excalated hard against Mario simply because he was calling Mila names - the whole plan everything there is purely based on Nika's inability to let it slide. He then triggers Bella, and can't back down, which leads to the heist, which leads to the need to do something against Stefan indirectly, and on it goes. We thing find out Mila's history with Mario in Ch4.5 and what he was like back then, which further weakens any sense of justification.
The only reason I can see that Ocean will let them off the hook is a close shave. Stefan decides to go cloak and dagger, and not do things legally, everyone plays morally ambigious roles, we find out the levels of corruption mean there will never be justice. In such a scenario, there might not be any sense in justice, other than walking away. Some things cant be fixed through an eye for an eye.
But for that to work, Ocean really will have to work hard to make the reasons for grace very compelling.
Very unlikely - penises would put it in 18+ so the animation is long gone. The visual side of it, well the argument that they're actually just using a jacuzzi to relax, rather than as a lewd thing makes more sense to me - even if Vanessa is very open minded, she's known these two strange people for a couple of hours in the game. It makes it a more conversational scene, which suits the situation better, and highlights the sensuality of the strip show Vanessa gave Nika as an intimate action.
Really well said! A couple of minor observations - we know that Summer's parents and aunt thought Nika was trash - that Summer would end up in a trailer park drinking beer. I am not certain that the deal necessarily relates to the violent incident. It could be mutual silence over something illegal they got into, that lead to Nika being charged ...I just had the thought that Nika might have been charged with something because Nami called Laverne actually Anyway, I think there is a very real possibility that the unspoken deal has something disturbing, related to how Nami is inside. The deal is certainly about a secret, but given the way they speak while walking, and the speech if you have a change of perception, the unspoken thing is deep. There is a lot to consider about this indeed.
hey Bob ! , you can not try to use logic or fantasied about Ocean using logic or common sense on Summer's Gone.
remember that Ocean it's the guy that made the infamous jacuzzi scene , where Zara and Vanessa are getting naked in the tub with 2 people that they just met and these girls father is OK WITH IT !
or Nojiko finally getting help for the MC after 2 to 3 years of the MC suffering from depression ,social anxiety and anger .
another scene that always bothered me was the Nami getting pranked into buying a rival college uniform , how's that even possible? , when you're just a few clicks away from the "university / college" official page and all the requirements are there for you to see an stupid Nami and Nojiko believed a few tweets about the uniforms?
as much as i like Summer's Gone , there is a ton of things that need fixing , like characters , dialogue and flow , i just hope that with this shit show on the rear mirror , he can focus on making the game better from the get go and not later when he's about to wrap season 2.
hey Bob ! , you can not try to use logic or fantasied about Ocean using logic or common sense on Summer's Gone.
remember that Ocean it's the guy that made the infamous jacuzzi scene , where Zara and Vanessa are getting naked in the tub with 2 people that they just met and these girls father is OK WITH IT !
or Nojiko finally getting help for the MC after 2 to 3 years of the MC suffering from depression ,social anxiety and anger .
another scene that always bothered me was the Nami getting pranked into buying a rival college uniform , how's that even possible? , when you're just a few clicks away from the "university / college" official page and all the requirements are there for you to see an stupid Nami and Nojiko believed a few tweets about the uniforms? View attachment 3642475
as much as i like Summer's Gone , there is a ton of things that need fixing , like characters , dialogue and flow , i just hope that with this shit show on the rear mirror , he can focus on making the game better from the get go and not later with he's about to wrap season 2.
I think you know by now I love overthinking it anyway I imagine things would've been different if WiaB's patreon didn't get purged, so on the whole, some of the illogical things are a result of the time taken for the rework, and some are an excessive knee jerk reaction to the patreon censors/reviewers. There's continuity/timeline errors in both, but most VNs suffer the same, they just cross to a lewd to distract people from questions.
I think WiaB will be mainly consistent, and if so, that'll give me a lot more hope moving forward, because, as you know I'm so short on hope
I have no likes left, but yes I agree, there needs to be some sort of recognition in the story that they are not heroes, that there are no excuses for that behaviour. Nika excalated hard against Mario simply because he was calling Mila names - the whole plan everything there is purely based on Nika's inability to let it slide. He then triggers Bella, and can't back down, which leads to the heist, which leads to the need to do something against Stefan indirectly, and on it goes. We thing find out Mila's history with Mario in Ch4.5 and what he was like back then, which further weakens any sense of justification.
The only reason I can see that Ocean will let them off the hook is a close shave. Stefan decides to go cloak and dagger, and not do things legally, everyone plays morally ambigious roles, we find out the levels of corruption mean there will never be justice. In such a scenario, there might not be any sense in justice, other than walking away. Some things cant be fixed through an eye for an eye.
But for that to work, Ocean really will have to work hard to make the reasons for grace very compelling.
There were consequences, Mila is in danger because of Nika and Bella as you say. They didn't face harsh consequences but they both showed regret for what they did. Ties perfectly with the theme of the game, if you get too reckless you or the people you love might pay the price, so is revenge really worth it in the end? Nika and Bella learned something valuable this way.
What about Bella in the restaurant? The regret she showed is telling of the change that sparked inside her. She felt bad for what she did and will have more of a coscience in the future. She has discovered by hurting someone she doesn't actually want to be a bad person. We have seen this already, she has grown much softer since the start.
What I wrote below, I actually wanted to say after playing Bella's path, but since the topic of consequences has come up, which is especially critical for my perception of Bella, here we go.
I don't care about their regrets. Bella's regrets without consequences that affect her specifically are the reason why I so far don't rank her as much as Leia, Vanessa and Sasha. Despite the fact that there are similarities between the four of them. They are people who create around themselves a barrier of coldness, detachment, indifference and arrogance. But if you manage to break through this barrier you might see something interesting in them and maybe even change them for the better. I absolutely love this type of characters. Especially when their flaws, of which the barrier is made, are taken to the extreme. Vanessa and Leia are exactly that. Most will turn away and try to minimise time with them but specifically I really enjoy these characters.
Bella also can be classified as the extreme case. However, Ocean stumbles when it comes to her. I don't know, maybe it's her involvement in the main plot from the moment she appears. Perhaps I would have seen her differently if at first we had watched her from the side. But it's obvious to me that Ocean doesn't treat her the same way he treats Vanessa and Leia.
As I played both games, it really reminded me of the Gordon Ramsay meme.
Leia, Vanessa: "You fucking donkeys." (good example)
Bella: "Oh dear, oh dear. Gorgeous." (bad example)
Ocean doesn't give Vanessa and Leia any slack. The longer we spend time with Vanessa the more her flaws we notice. Compared to that, the backstory about her mother is such a minor detail that most people just don't care about it. In Leia's case, yes, at the end of ep.3 we hear a heartbreaking story about how she suffered after William's running away and how it shaped her as a person. But firstly, she was already a bully. Secondly, she faces the direct consequences of her actions. Third, we already know about her a lot and that a lot doesn't put her in a good light. I respect that approach. Ocean tries to present these characters objectively and he's certainly not afraid that we won't like them at all.
Bella is a completely different story. Ocean treats her like an angel. She meets Nika in the first half-hour of the game and falls in love with him within three chapters if the player allows it. I have no idea how things are going if the player follows her path, but outside of it there's no real tension between them. The only real fight they have is once at her house, the rest are mostly comedic. Her bad deeds alternate with attempts to understand and forgive her and they feels so forced. These attempts often come from Nika. When he and Mila have a conversation about her and Bella's past, he immediately starts blaming her and then concludes that Bella is not so bad at all. Mila agrees with him, probably, she was too harsh...
... What the hell is this? Why is there not a single important character in the entire game with whom Nika would start a serious argument about Bella? Everyone either agrees with her defense eventually or defends her. Mila wants to tell how Bella bullied people, but Nika interrupts. "No, I want to hear it from her." Yes, let's hear excuses from the bully about how she bullied her victims, not the victims themselves. And don't even start making excuses that most have bullied her before. In WiAB we hear both sides. Also, remember what answer Leia gave? "How dare she take what's mine." These are all her excuses. Straight to the point. No indulgence on Ocean's part.
There are situations where William and Leia literally slam each other against cars during their fights. There are characters who literally can't stand them both, especially they hate Leia. They always remind them how awful these two are. They are key characters, even LIs. Yet they don't give any concessions. They don't give a fuck how Leia suffered. And they are adults who understand more about life. Unlike SG characters who were teenagers just yesterday. Where is their maximalism, where is this simple division of people into those who they like and whom they hate?
And indeed, it's funny to hear excuses about Bella from Nika who takes an active part in her actions that reach crime activity. He sounds awfully hypocritical. I could consider this as a plus to the plot, because now we have a pseudo-moralist protagonist. But I wonder if Ocean actually sees it.
Hell, maybe Ocean hates Leia. I dunno.
Then he should hate Bella as well.
She will become more interesting.
Returning to the topic. The problem isn't Stefan and his family, the problem is Nika and Bella. Even if the Holgersons really are that bad, it shouldn't affect them both. Otherwise it's a cheap plot trick in an attempt to justify their actions. Mila's situation is just the raising the stakes. Besides I don't see Mila as a potential LI. What if I don't care about her or I just don't like her? Or for example I like Bella, so Mila's problems don't bother me as long as Bella gets away with her recklessness. If that's all Ocean does, it will be false consequences. I don't need half measures and excuses. Given the theme of healing, I want real shitstorm that not only punish the characters, but force them to change their behaviour.
Right now, my attitude towards Bella is at a critical point. The next will depend on how Ocean plays out the consequences. If somehow he screws up, Bella will fall straight to the bottom in my top. I don't care how well she is written and what a good chemistry she has with Nika, which is actually great, I'm serious. I'll repeat what I said in the off-topic thread. I never dislike a character for being a bad person. My feelings about characters are not dependent on how they treat the characters I like or main characters in particular. I accept them for who they are. It takes a lot of effort to make me really dislike them.
What I really dislike is bad writing. I'm sorry, but that's how I see the situation with Bella and how Ocean treats her. Unless, of course, Ocean is doing it on purpose to surprise us in some way. If he does this, Bella will join Vanessa, Leia and Sasha in my top.
No, the actual Steam version is the same as the Patreon version. There was for literally two days a different version, but Steam is patched. When you buy and download SG on Steam you get the very same as when you buy it on Patreon.
There is a possibility that it would be Nika who would be targeted by Holgerson,regardless of whether he helped Bella or not. Given the latest update, Nika was driving towards Holgerson's mansion in any case. Even if there were no working cameras there, there are many houses around and neighbors could easily notice the license plate of the suspicious bike. And Holgerson called Bella because he saw her with Nika in the restaurant and he wants to ask about him more.
One way or another, time is starting to run out. And I know one guy who would be suitable for the role of a scapegoat. Sai, don’t drop soap in prison, it’s bad for your health.
What I wrote below, I actually wanted to say after playing Bella's path, but since the topic of consequences has come up, which is especially critical for my perception of Bella, here we go.
I don't care about their regrets. Bella's regrets without consequences that affect her specifically are the reason why I so far don't rank her as much as Leia, Vanessa and Sasha. Despite the fact that there are similarities between the four of them. They are people who create around themselves a barrier of coldness, detachment, indifference and arrogance. But if you manage to break through this barrier you might see something interesting in them and maybe even change them for the better. I absolutely love this type of characters. Especially when their flaws, of which the barrier is made, are taken to the extreme. Vanessa and Leia are exactly that. Most will turn away and try to minimise time with them but specifically I really enjoy these characters.
Bella also can be classified as the extreme case. However, Ocean stumbles when it comes to her. I don't know, maybe it's her involvement in the main plot from the moment she appears. Perhaps I would have seen her differently if at first we had watched her from the side. But it's obvious to me that Ocean doesn't treat her the same way he treats Vanessa and Leia.
As I played both games, it really reminded me of the Gordon Ramsay meme.
Leia, Vanessa: "You fucking donkeys." (good example)
Bella: "Oh dear, oh dear. Gorgeous." (bad example)
Ocean doesn't give Vanessa and Leia any slack. The longer we spend time with Vanessa the more her flaws we notice. Compared to that, the backstory about her mother is such a minor detail that most people just don't care about it. In Leia's case, yes, at the end of ep.3 we hear a heartbreaking story about how she suffered after William's running away and how it shaped her as a person. But firstly, she was already a bully. Secondly, she faces the direct consequences of her actions. Third, we already know about her a lot and that a lot doesn't put her in a good light. I respect that approach. Ocean tries to present these characters objectively and he's certainly not afraid that we won't like them at all.
Bella is a completely different story. Ocean treats her like an angel. She meets Nika in the first half-hour of the game and falls in love with him within three chapters if the player allows it. I have no idea how things are going if the player follows her path, but outside of it there's no real tension between them. The only real fight they have is once at her house, the rest are mostly comedic. Her bad deeds alternate with attempts to understand and forgive her and they feels so forced. These attempts often come from Nika. When he and Mila have a conversation about her and Bella's past, he immediately starts blaming her and then concludes that Bella is not so bad at all. Mila agrees with him, probably, she was too harsh...
... What the hell is this? Why is there not a single important character in the entire game with whom Nika would start a serious argument about Bella? Everyone either agrees with her defense eventually or defends her. Mila wants to tell how Bella bullied people, but Nika interrupts. "No, I want to hear it from her." Yes, let's hear excuses from the bully about how she bullied her victims, not the victims themselves. And don't even start making excuses that most have bullied her before. In WiAB we hear both sides. Also, remember what answer Leia gave? "How dare she take what's mine." These are all her excuses. Straight to the point. No indulgence on Ocean's part.
There are situations where William and Leia literally slam each other against cars during their fights. There are characters who literally can't stand them both, especially they hate Leia. They always remind them how awful these two are. They are key characters, even LIs. Yet they don't give any concessions. They don't give a fuck how Leia suffered. And they are adults who understand more about life. Unlike SG characters who were teenagers just yesterday. Where is their maximalism, where is this simple division of people into those who they like and whom they hate?
And indeed, it's funny to hear excuses about Bella from Nika who takes an active part in her actions that reach crime activity. He sounds awfully hypocritical. I could consider this as a plus to the plot, because now we have a pseudo-moralist protagonist. But I wonder if Ocean actually sees it.
Hell, maybe Ocean hates Leia. I dunno.
Then he should hate Bella as well.
She will become more interesting.
Returning to the topic. The problem isn't Stefan and his family, the problem is Nika and Bella. Even if the Holgersons really are that bad, it shouldn't affect them both. Otherwise it's a cheap plot trick in an attempt to justify their actions. Mila's situation is just the raising the stakes. Besides I don't see Mila as a potential LI. What if I don't care about her or I just don't like her? Or for example I like Bella, so Mila's problems don't bother me as long as Bella gets away with her recklessness. If that's all Ocean does, it will be false consequences. I don't need half measures and excuses. Given the theme of healing, I want real shitstorm that not only punish the characters, but force them to change their behaviour.
Right now, my attitude towards Bella is at a critical point. The next will depend on how Ocean plays out the consequences. If somehow he screws up, Bella will fall straight to the bottom in my top. I don't care how well she is written and what a good chemistry she has with Nika, which is actually great, I'm serious. I'll repeat what I said in the off-topic thread. I never dislike a character for being a bad person. My feelings about characters are not dependent on how they treat the characters I like or main characters in particular. I accept them for who they are. It takes a lot of effort to make me really dislike them.
What I really dislike is bad writing. I'm sorry, but that's how I see the situation with Bella and how Ocean treats her. Unless, of course, Ocean is doing it on purpose to surprise us in some way. If he does this, Bella will join Vanessa, Leia and Sasha in my top.
You wrote everything correctly. But as Sasha said at the book club, these are only symptoms and not a disease. But doctors determine what a patient is sick with based on their symptoms. So all you have to do is draw the right conclusions. Keep in mind that this is a visual novel with a plot. And the author’s goal is not to tell us how the main character will fuck everyone, but something else.
There is a possibility that it would be Nika who would be targeted by Holgerson,regardless of whether he helped Bella or not. Given the latest update, Nika was driving towards Holgerson's mansion in any case. Even if there were no working cameras there, there are many houses around and neighbors could easily notice the license plate of the suspicious bike. And Holgerson called Bella because he saw her with Nika in the restaurant and he wants to ask about him more.
One way or another, time is starting to run out. And I know one guy who would be suitable for the role of a scapegoat. Sai, don’t drop soap in prison, it’s bad for your health.
I would love something similar to that like Stefan Holgerson approaching Nika at the gala and confronting him publicy just to get completly put down and made to shut up by a intervening Katie, Zoey or my favorite for this Leia.
Bella was already so dumbfounded that Elsa knew Nika, it would be funny to see how she reacts when suddenly a Zane stands up for Nika revealing at least some kind of connection.
It would kinda fit as i think whatever happens about the Mila/heist situation, it wont be a big deal as the event does only happen if you do the heist at all.
Bella and Nika are both very quick and rash in the decisions and opinions (they are young), i imagine it will turn out that the Holgerson's arent actually THIS bad.
The messages from Stefan which they "hacked" at the diner painted him as a pretty good guy too, suggesting locations for his friends to rekindle their marriage.
It's not even close. I'd trade the 2k garbage new renders from the reworked chapter 2 for the full jacuzzi scene, uncensored Nami "after finding out about Noji dating Nick" scene and the full scene of waking up in Nami's bed which includes the kiss.
Reworking the Jacuzzi scene was Ocean's stupid idea. He made 2 mistakes at once with his censorship. Firstly, Nami's scene shows that everything is working for MC and he does not need treatment. And secondly, Vanessa is obsessed with controlling men through female sexuality. Censoring her is the same as taking away her weapon against men. Then we should also cut out Vanessa's first attempt to seduce MC.
What I wrote below, I actually wanted to say after playing Bella's path, but since the topic of consequences has come up, which is especially critical for my perception of Bella, here we go.
I don't care about their regrets. Bella's regrets without consequences that affect her specifically are the reason why I so far don't rank her as much as Leia, Vanessa and Sasha. Despite the fact that there are similarities between the four of them. They are people who create around themselves a barrier of coldness, detachment, indifference and arrogance. But if you manage to break through this barrier you might see something interesting in them and maybe even change them for the better. I absolutely love this type of characters. Especially when their flaws, of which the barrier is made, are taken to the extreme. Vanessa and Leia are exactly that. Most will turn away and try to minimise time with them but specifically I really enjoy these characters.
Bella also can be classified as the extreme case. However, Ocean stumbles when it comes to her. I don't know, maybe it's her involvement in the main plot from the moment she appears. Perhaps I would have seen her differently if at first we had watched her from the side. But it's obvious to me that Ocean doesn't treat her the same way he treats Vanessa and Leia.
As I played both games, it really reminded me of the Gordon Ramsay meme.
Leia, Vanessa: "You fucking donkeys." (good example)
Bella: "Oh dear, oh dear. Gorgeous." (bad example)
Ocean doesn't give Vanessa and Leia any slack. The longer we spend time with Vanessa the more her flaws we notice. Compared to that, the backstory about her mother is such a minor detail that most people just don't care about it. In Leia's case, yes, at the end of ep.3 we hear a heartbreaking story about how she suffered after William's running away and how it shaped her as a person. But firstly, she was already a bully. Secondly, she faces the direct consequences of her actions. Third, we already know about her a lot and that a lot doesn't put her in a good light. I respect that approach. Ocean tries to present these characters objectively and he's certainly not afraid that we won't like them at all.
Bella is a completely different story. Ocean treats her like an angel. She meets Nika in the first half-hour of the game and falls in love with him within three chapters if the player allows it. I have no idea how things are going if the player follows her path, but outside of it there's no real tension between them. The only real fight they have is once at her house, the rest are mostly comedic. Her bad deeds alternate with attempts to understand and forgive her and they feels so forced. These attempts often come from Nika. When he and Mila have a conversation about her and Bella's past, he immediately starts blaming her and then concludes that Bella is not so bad at all. Mila agrees with him, probably, she was too harsh...
... What the hell is this? Why is there not a single important character in the entire game with whom Nika would start a serious argument about Bella? Everyone either agrees with her defense eventually or defends her. Mila wants to tell how Bella bullied people, but Nika interrupts. "No, I want to hear it from her." Yes, let's hear excuses from the bully about how she bullied her victims, not the victims themselves. And don't even start making excuses that most have bullied her before. In WiAB we hear both sides. Also, remember what answer Leia gave? "How dare she take what's mine." These are all her excuses. Straight to the point. No indulgence on Ocean's part.
There are situations where William and Leia literally slam each other against cars during their fights. There are characters who literally can't stand them both, especially they hate Leia. They always remind them how awful these two are. They are key characters, even LIs. Yet they don't give any concessions. They don't give a fuck how Leia suffered. And they are adults who understand more about life. Unlike SG characters who were teenagers just yesterday. Where is their maximalism, where is this simple division of people into those who they like and whom they hate?
And indeed, it's funny to hear excuses about Bella from Nika who takes an active part in her actions that reach crime activity. He sounds awfully hypocritical. I could consider this as a plus to the plot, because now we have a pseudo-moralist protagonist. But I wonder if Ocean actually sees it.
Hell, maybe Ocean hates Leia. I dunno.
Then he should hate Bella as well.
She will become more interesting.
Returning to the topic. The problem isn't Stefan and his family, the problem is Nika and Bella. Even if the Holgersons really are that bad, it shouldn't affect them both. Otherwise it's a cheap plot trick in an attempt to justify their actions. Mila's situation is just the raising the stakes. Besides I don't see Mila as a potential LI. What if I don't care about her or I just don't like her? Or for example I like Bella, so Mila's problems don't bother me as long as Bella gets away with her recklessness. If that's all Ocean does, it will be false consequences. I don't need half measures and excuses. Given the theme of healing, I want real shitstorm that not only punish the characters, but force them to change their behaviour.
Right now, my attitude towards Bella is at a critical point. The next will depend on how Ocean plays out the consequences. If somehow he screws up, Bella will fall straight to the bottom in my top. I don't care how well she is written and what a good chemistry she has with Nika, which is actually great, I'm serious. I'll repeat what I said in the off-topic thread. I never dislike a character for being a bad person. My feelings about characters are not dependent on how they treat the characters I like or main characters in particular. I accept them for who they are. It takes a lot of effort to make me really dislike them.
What I really dislike is bad writing. I'm sorry, but that's how I see the situation with Bella and how Ocean treats her. Unless, of course, Ocean is doing it on purpose to surprise us in some way. If he does this, Bella will join Vanessa, Leia and Sasha in my top.
Big point for Stefan/Mario: Nika is doing all this because Mario called Mila names and he has bad impulse control. We call each other names on here daily without resorting to breaking and entering, theft or petty vandalism. Just more support for the fact that Nika and Bella don't understand society.
I think it allows for interesting revelations - Nika gets charged perhaps, people do some digging, like Nicole, and some of the past is uncovered. Who knows? I do think the legal aspect will be dealt with by Stefan dropping charges to prove being the bigger man. Given they are targeting Mila, and Vanessa knows about Mila (if you're dating her), it seems to me Mario is vindictive, not even caring who's responsible, but wanting to inflict pain on Mila for no reason.
Most things are degress of grey, except that Nika and Bella have no reason other than hatred to do what they did. It can't even be called revenge, or vengeance.
well you and me have a different definition of porn. Even before the rework or the even before he censored Jacuzzi scene I never considered this game porn.
well you and me have a different definition of porn. Even before the rework or the even before he censored Jacuzzi scene I never considered this game porn.
Big point for Stefan/Mario: Nika is doing all this because Mario called Mila names and he has bad impulse control. We call each other names on here daily without resorting to breaking and entering, theft or petty vandalism. Just more support for the fact that Nika and Bella don't understand society.
I think it allows for interesting revelations - Nika gets charged perhaps, people do some digging, like Nicole, and some of the past is uncovered. Who knows? I do think the legal aspect will be dealt with by Stefan dropping charges to prove being the bigger man. Given they are targeting Mila, and Vanessa knows about Mila (if you're dating her), it seems to me Mario is vindictive, not even caring who's responsible, but wanting to inflict pain on Mila for no reason.
Most things are degress of grey, except that Nika and Bella have no reason other than hatred to do what they did. It can't even be called revenge, or vengeance.
I know but that changes of the rework doesn't change my opinion I never considered this a porn game even back then. Also tbh the changes don't bother that much I can just play an old version if there is a scene I really want to see.
Big point for Stefan/Mario: Nika is doing all this because Mario called Mila names and he has bad impulse control. We call each other names on here daily without resorting to breaking and entering, theft or petty vandalism. Just more support for the fact that Nika and Bella don't understand society.
I think it allows for interesting revelations - Nika gets charged perhaps, people do some digging, like Nicole, and some of the past is uncovered. Who knows? I do think the legal aspect will be dealt with by Stefan dropping charges to prove being the bigger man. Given they are targeting Mila, and Vanessa knows about Mila (if you're dating her), it seems to me Mario is vindictive, not even caring who's responsible, but wanting to inflict pain on Mila for no reason.
Most things are degress of grey, except that Nika and Bella have no reason other than hatred to do what they did. It can't even be called revenge, or vengeance.
Stefan the one that made Mila preggers ( if she's got a baby )? ( see earlier speculative post )
Mario knows this and is furious over having a hookers daughter "stepmom".
Stefan has little or no sexual interest in Amber but only wants her as a trophy wife.
Vanessa is not stupid. She just want Mario as a training ground for further dominatrix studies.
The Chick Fuzz knows things, is just as bad as her sister but sense of duty overtakes bully attitude in the end.
Katie knows every card in the deck and will reveal or intervene if shit hits the fan.
She implied at the book club that they would see each other again.
Nick would have been a perfect first name for a Revera. Sounds suupa gangsta.
