What I wrote below, I actually wanted to say after playing Bella's path, but since the topic of consequences has come up, which is especially critical for my perception of Bella, here we go.
I don't care about their regrets. Bella's regrets without consequences that affect her specifically are the reason why I so far don't rank her as much as Leia, Vanessa and Sasha. Despite the fact that there are similarities between the four of them. They are people who create around themselves a barrier of coldness, detachment, indifference and arrogance. But if you manage to break through this barrier you might see something interesting in them and maybe even change them for the better. I absolutely love this type of characters. Especially when their flaws, of which the barrier is made, are taken to the extreme. Vanessa and Leia are exactly that. Most will turn away and try to minimise time with them but specifically I really enjoy these characters.
Bella also can be classified as the extreme case. However, Ocean stumbles when it comes to her. I don't know, maybe it's her involvement in the main plot from the moment she appears. Perhaps I would have seen her differently if at first we had watched her from the side. But it's obvious to me that Ocean doesn't treat her the same way he treats Vanessa and Leia.
As I played both games, it really reminded me of the Gordon Ramsay meme.
Leia, Vanessa: "You fucking donkeys." (good example)
Bella: "Oh dear, oh dear. Gorgeous." (bad example)
Ocean doesn't give Vanessa and Leia any slack. The longer we spend time with Vanessa the more her flaws we notice. Compared to that, the backstory about her mother is such a minor detail that most people just don't care about it. In Leia's case, yes, at the end of ep.3 we hear a heartbreaking story about how she suffered after William's running away and how it shaped her as a person. But firstly, she was already a bully. Secondly, she faces the direct consequences of her actions. Third, we already know about her a lot and that a lot doesn't put her in a good light. I respect that approach. Ocean tries to present these characters objectively and he's certainly not afraid that we won't like them at all.
Bella is a completely different story. Ocean treats her like an angel. She meets Nika in the first half-hour of the game and falls in love with him within three chapters if the player allows it. I have no idea how things are going if the player follows her path, but outside of it there's no real tension between them. The only real fight they have is once at her house, the rest are mostly comedic. Her bad deeds alternate with attempts to understand and forgive her and they feels so forced. These attempts often come from Nika. When he and Mila have a conversation about her and Bella's past, he immediately starts blaming her and then concludes that Bella is not so bad at all. Mila agrees with him, probably, she was too harsh...
... What the hell is this? Why is there not a single important character in the entire game with whom Nika would start a serious argument about Bella? Everyone either agrees with her defense eventually or defends her. Mila wants to tell how Bella bullied people, but Nika interrupts. "No, I want to hear it from her." Yes, let's hear excuses from the bully about how she bullied her victims, not the victims themselves. And don't even start making excuses that most have bullied her before. In WiAB we hear both sides. Also, remember what answer Leia gave? "How dare she take what's mine." These are all her excuses. Straight to the point. No indulgence on Ocean's part.
There are situations where William and Leia literally slam each other against cars during their fights. There are characters who literally can't stand them both, especially they hate Leia. They always remind them how awful these two are. They are key characters, even LIs. Yet they don't give any concessions. They don't give a fuck how Leia suffered. And they are adults who understand more about life. Unlike SG characters who were teenagers just yesterday. Where is their maximalism, where is this simple division of people into those who they like and whom they hate?
And indeed, it's funny to hear excuses about Bella from Nika who takes an active part in her actions that reach crime activity. He sounds awfully hypocritical. I could consider this as a plus to the plot, because now we have a pseudo-moralist protagonist. But I wonder if Ocean actually sees it.
Hell, maybe Ocean hates Leia. I dunno.
Then he should hate Bella as well.
She will become more interesting.
Returning to the topic. The problem isn't Stefan and his family, the problem is Nika and Bella. Even if the Holgersons really are that bad, it shouldn't affect them both. Otherwise it's a cheap plot trick in an attempt to justify their actions. Mila's situation is just the raising the stakes. Besides I don't see Mila as a potential LI. What if I don't care about her or I just don't like her? Or for example I like Bella, so Mila's problems don't bother me as long as Bella gets away with her recklessness. If that's all Ocean does, it will be false consequences. I don't need half measures and excuses. Given the theme of healing, I want real shitstorm that not only punish the characters, but force them to change their behaviour.
Right now, my attitude towards Bella is at a critical point. The next will depend on how Ocean plays out the consequences. If somehow he screws up, Bella will fall straight to the bottom in my top. I don't care how well she is written and what a good chemistry she has with Nika, which is actually great, I'm serious. I'll repeat what I said in the off-topic thread. I never dislike a character for being a bad person. My feelings about characters are not dependent on how they treat the characters I like or main characters in particular. I accept them for who they are. It takes a lot of effort to make me really dislike them.
What I really dislike is bad writing. I'm sorry, but that's how I see the situation with Bella and how Ocean treats her. Unless, of course, Ocean is doing it on purpose to surprise us in some way. If he does this, Bella will join Vanessa, Leia and Sasha in my top.
Big point for Stefan/Mario: Nika is doing all this because Mario called Mila names and he has bad impulse control. We call each other names on here daily without resorting to breaking and entering, theft or petty vandalism. Just more support for the fact that Nika and Bella don't understand society.
I think it allows for interesting revelations - Nika gets charged perhaps, people do some digging, like Nicole, and some of the past is uncovered. Who knows? I do think the legal aspect will be dealt with by Stefan dropping charges to prove being the bigger man. Given they are targeting Mila, and Vanessa knows about Mila (if you're dating her), it seems to me Mario is vindictive, not even caring who's responsible, but wanting to inflict pain on Mila for no reason.
Most things are degress of grey, except that Nika and Bella have no reason other than hatred to do what they did. It can't even be called revenge, or vengeance.
well you and me have a different definition of porn. Even before the rework or the even before he censored Jacuzzi scene I never considered this game porn.
well you and me have a different definition of porn. Even before the rework or the even before he censored Jacuzzi scene I never considered this game porn.
Big point for Stefan/Mario: Nika is doing all this because Mario called Mila names and he has bad impulse control. We call each other names on here daily without resorting to breaking and entering, theft or petty vandalism. Just more support for the fact that Nika and Bella don't understand society.
I think it allows for interesting revelations - Nika gets charged perhaps, people do some digging, like Nicole, and some of the past is uncovered. Who knows? I do think the legal aspect will be dealt with by Stefan dropping charges to prove being the bigger man. Given they are targeting Mila, and Vanessa knows about Mila (if you're dating her), it seems to me Mario is vindictive, not even caring who's responsible, but wanting to inflict pain on Mila for no reason.
Most things are degress of grey, except that Nika and Bella have no reason other than hatred to do what they did. It can't even be called revenge, or vengeance.
I know but that changes of the rework doesn't change my opinion I never considered this a porn game even back then. Also tbh the changes don't bother that much I can just play an old version if there is a scene I really want to see.
Big point for Stefan/Mario: Nika is doing all this because Mario called Mila names and he has bad impulse control. We call each other names on here daily without resorting to breaking and entering, theft or petty vandalism. Just more support for the fact that Nika and Bella don't understand society.
I think it allows for interesting revelations - Nika gets charged perhaps, people do some digging, like Nicole, and some of the past is uncovered. Who knows? I do think the legal aspect will be dealt with by Stefan dropping charges to prove being the bigger man. Given they are targeting Mila, and Vanessa knows about Mila (if you're dating her), it seems to me Mario is vindictive, not even caring who's responsible, but wanting to inflict pain on Mila for no reason.
Most things are degress of grey, except that Nika and Bella have no reason other than hatred to do what they did. It can't even be called revenge, or vengeance.
Stefan the one that made Mila preggers ( if she's got a baby )? ( see earlier speculative post )
Mario knows this and is furious over having a hookers daughter "stepmom".
Stefan has little or no sexual interest in Amber but only wants her as a trophy wife.
Vanessa is not stupid. She just want Mario as a training ground for further dominatrix studies.
The Chick Fuzz knows things, is just as bad as her sister but sense of duty overtakes bully attitude in the end.
Katie knows every card in the deck and will reveal or intervene if shit hits the fan.
She implied at the book club that they would see each other again.
Nick would have been a perfect first name for a Revera. Sounds suupa gangsta.
I think Nika has a weakness for candies, in the hospital he asks a little girl where she has bought the candy, then he can ask to Maja if there are some place to buy candies, and in Bella´s place he sees candies and just eat them.
Is nothing important but i think there are many times where he eats candies without a reason , althought i think he ate Bella´s candies because he likes them and because there are from Bella, is a 2x1 win situation.
Big point for Stefan/Mario: Nika is doing all this because Mario called Mila names and he has bad impulse control. We call each other names on here daily without resorting to breaking and entering, theft or petty vandalism. Just more support for the fact that Nika and Bella don't understand society.
I think it allows for interesting revelations - Nika gets charged perhaps, people do some digging, like Nicole, and some of the past is uncovered. Who knows? I do think the legal aspect will be dealt with by Stefan dropping charges to prove being the bigger man. Given they are targeting Mila, and Vanessa knows about Mila (if you're dating her), it seems to me Mario is vindictive, not even caring who's responsible, but wanting to inflict pain on Mila for no reason.
Most things are degress of grey, except that Nika and Bella have no reason other than hatred to do what they did. It can't even be called revenge, or vengeance.
True, but in my non Bella path i decided to go with her and do the heist because those guys insulted Nika, not because he wanted to revenge Mila. But yeah the "canon" reason is for Mila.
Most things are degress of grey, except that Nika and Bella have no reason other than hatred to do what they did. It can't even be called revenge, or vengeance.
Simply put, Nika and Bella are idiots.
The fact that they are idiots makes the consequences even more important.
I never thought Bella was smart. Nika seemed smart to me at first. But the more I think about what they're doing, the more I come to the conclusion that he is smart and stupid at the same time.
Realistically, if they had continued with their plan regarding Vanessa, they would've definitely failed.
They don't stand a chance against her. She would have bulldoze them over. That's not even a fair fight.
It's kinda disappointing. These kids need someone who spank their asses.
Vanessa would be perfect for this role.
And yes, I'm also starting to suspect that the Holgersons probably aren't that bad.
At least Stefan. And Mario is just a dumb kid. To me, Nika and Bella are more awful.
Speaking of awful people. Among major characters, my top 5 looks like this:
1. Leia. I don't think I even need to spell out any serious arguments here. She is the only character I dare call evil. But it should be added that we don't really know how far her criminal activities went during WiAB and by the time of SG. I'm not dismissing the possibility that she's a murderer.
2. William. Right next to his beloved sister. He's a real piece of shit and we haven't even seen his final form. The longer he stays in his hometown the lower he falls in my eyes.
So, Leia and William are the worst. The other three are not near them but they're still kinda bad.
3. Vanessa
4. Bella.
I'm a little conflicted about them. We know more about Bella's bad deeds and in total they outweigh poor Mario's ass imo. But since Bella sometimes feels remorse for her actions and Vanessa doesn't look like a person who care much, I'll put my favorite above Bella.
Stefan the one that made Mila preggers ( if she's got a baby )? ( see earlier speculative post )
Mario knows this and is furious over having a hookers daughter "stepmom".
Stefan has little or no sexual interest in Amber but only wants her as a trophy wife.
Vanessa is not stupid. She just want Mario as a training ground for further dominatrix studies.
The Chick Fuzz knows things, is just as bad as her sister but sense of duty overtakes bully attitude in the end.
Katie knows every card in the deck and will reveal or intervene if shit hits the fan.
She implied at the book club that they would see each other again.
Nick would have been a perfect first name for a Revera. Sounds suupa gangsta.
I don’t think Mila has a baby but i didn’t saw the earlier post tbh but it’s too weird of a setup
I think Stefan’s feelings about Amber are platonic and he isn’t even cheating.
Amber is probably Bambi and i think they know each other for a long time and are somewhat friends.
Bella‘s view is just kinda screwed due to hate lol (and Mario seems to be a jerk i guess but Mila even told us that he was a good guy back than).
As if Amber can’t tell if Stefan hits on her or has nefarious goals, Amber has life experience and can read people like books and way better than Bella who’s way too emotional and easily biased.
Amber is the opposite of a trophy wife anyway, she’s rich herself, a mini celebrity and is supposedly very competent in her profession.
I think Vanessa is using Mario for something (but I don’t think it’s about her dominatrix skills lol). He’s probably never gonna fuck her.
I agree about Katie and think she watched him at college already too
Her talk with Nojiko at the bookclub was Katie saying: This is where I (or we) am taking over. Just without words.
I think Nika has a weakness for candies, in the hospital he asks a little girl where she has bought the candy, then he can ask to Maja if there are some place to buy candies, and in Bella´s place he sees candies and just eat them.
Is nothing important but i think there are many times where he eats candies without a reason , althought i think he ate Bella´s candies because he likes them and because there are from Bella, is a 2x1 win situation.
I just wanted to make this stupid annotation
True, but in my non Bella path i decided to go with her and do the heist because those guys insulted Nika, not because he wanted to revenge Mila. But yeah the "canon" reason is for Mila.
My main thought is that he demands that Bella respect people and not treat them differently because they're poor, he does the same with Zara and Vanessa, then acts like a cliche'd poor person whose first thought is to steal. In this sense Mila shows motivation that her social behaviour shouldn't be dictated to by her finances, but Nika provides reasons for Bella to continue thinking of him as poor trash - despite arguing that all people deserve respect regardless of financial situations, Nika actively works against this premise that he is so passionate about.
It still seems out of character to me - he argues for the moral high ground while acting like a two bit thief. It's easy to write off the holy box of shame as being something he's uncomfortable with, except he had no reaction to Bella's box of shame, or Nia's. So the respect is the same that he attacks Nami over when she invades his privacy - it is based on personal space, and he believes that people need space and trust, which implies that people's belongings are part of their personal space (as is shown by the way he resents Nami continually entering his room, changing the shades and going through his stuff).
Sure he can demonise Mario, but the money is not seen as an act of revenge, but as an opportunity to have money. Nika's almost ambivilent to the heirloom, and seems mostly satisfied with the prank aspect of petty vandalism. That's why the money aspect feels out of character to me. And Ocean can write it off as 'everyone's a hypocrite' but that's lazy, and Nika's character would be more compelling if he was just along for the ride with Bella after the petty prank with the car (like his petty theft of the sandwich), like he is for almost every other part of their interaction. SO I get his vengeful nature, the money is termed as opportunity rather than vengeance.
The gummy bears were not theft, that's just obnoxious behaviour as a guest, continuing on his petty revenge for Nami by riling Bella, again, the vengeance rather than opportunistic. But also you are right about accusing Bella for the same shit he does, they are the same puzzle piece after all I guess
I think Nika has a bit of the 'Robinhood' complex going on.
He knows that he can't right all wrongs, but he does not let power or wealth get in the way of trying to protect his loved ones and his friends.
I don't see taking $9K as theft - it is simply part of redressing the balance.
We are given the option to treat Mila to a meal, using Mario's $...
It is a quiet 'in your face' to Mario where Mario's $ is being used to help someone he has/does bully.
IMO - Nika sees taking Bella's sandwich (and eating it to satisfy his hunger) the same way he views taking Mario's $ - getting a little payback.
This fits with his desire to influence events/people from behind the scenes versus intentionally doing this publicly, putting himself at a greater risk of going to prison and Not being there to protect Noji/Nami and others he cares about.
I chose Not to spend any of that $ - treating Nika as smart enough to act and spend as he has before - not drawing attention to himself (not that this lunch would but it is more a theme of my primary playthrough).
In S2, Ocean may create options where we can spend/not spend that $ in a way that could help others who need it But, at the risk of putting him on the radar of the police/others who believe he Should Not have that level of resourcing.
Simply put, Nika and Bella are idiots.
The fact that they are idiots makes the consequences even more important.
I never thought Bella was smart. Nika seemed smart to me at first. But the more I think about what they're doing, the more I come to the conclusion that he is smart and stupid at the same time.
Realistically, if they had continued with their plan regarding Vanessa, they would've definitely failed.
They don't stand a chance against her. She would have bulldoze them over. That's not even a fair fight.
It's kinda disappointing. These kids need someone who spank their asses.
Vanessa would be perfect for this role.
And yes, I'm also starting to suspect that the Holgersons probably aren't that bad.
At least Stefan. And Mario is just a dumb kid. To me, Nika and Bella are more awful.
Speaking of awful people. Among major characters, my top 5 looks like this:
1. Leia. I don't think I even need to spell out any serious arguments here. She is the only character I dare call evil. But it should be added that we don't really know how far her criminal activities went during WiAB and by the time of SG. I'm not dismissing the possibility that she's a murderer.
2. William. Right next to his beloved sister. He's a real piece of shit and we haven't even seen his final form. The longer he stays in his hometown the lower he falls in my eyes.
So, Leia and William are the worst. The other three are not near them but they're still kinda bad.
3. Vanessa
4. Bella.
I'm a little conflicted about them. We know more about Bella's bad deeds and in total they outweigh poor Mario's ass imo. But since Bella sometimes feels remorse for her actions and Vanessa doesn't look like a person who care much, I'll put my favorite above Bella.
Haha the awful lot, it’s a thing I really like about oceans games as it feels so refreshing in AVNs.
Both protagonists and a lot of characters are deeply flawed yet fun and unique.
I wouldn’t call Nika, bella or Wiliam stupid but all of them tend to have a completly fucked up perception of things at times
Usually rooted in overconfidence, arrogance or indifference.
They all completely lack impulse control (Leia and Katie too lol)
I think it’s funny to read their thoughts when they pat their own backs for being such a mastermind while they fucked up completely in reality
Willy is even more of a fuck up yet, i think it was hilarious how he’s super suspecting Leia kinda and wants to play detective and her to open up to him ..
.. Just to immediately and without any real reason „set a trap up“ and attack this rival gang guy in the bathroom ..
.. just to get caught doing this without realizing it .. lmao, it was the exact thing Leia tried to avoid I suppose.
And im pretty sure Willy and Miru are or will be murderers too, I think wiab will be about the creation of the Zane empire due to war, love and breeding all of wollust
But I prefer playing flawed guys like these to the usual bland and flawless whiteknight avn mcs
Steam and Patreon versions are the same. Watch for the alternative "Summer's Bone" edition on the Dark Web, featuring enhanced next-gen ray tracing naked-only scenes. This version will be exclusively focused on adult content .... cumming soon.
Simply put, Nika and Bella are idiots.
The fact that they are idiots makes the consequences even more important.
I never thought Bella was smart. Nika seemed smart to me at first. But the more I think about what they're doing, the more I come to the conclusion that he is smart and stupid at the same time.
Realistically, if they had continued with their plan regarding Vanessa, they would've definitely failed.
They don't stand a chance against her. She would have bulldoze them over. That's not even a fair fight.
It's kinda disappointing. These kids need someone who spank their asses.
Vanessa would be perfect for this role.
And yes, I'm also starting to suspect that the Holgersons probably aren't that bad.
At least Stefan. And Mario is just a dumb kid. To me, Nika and Bella are more awful.
Speaking of awful people. Among major characters, my top 5 looks like this:
1. Leia. I don't think I even need to spell out any serious arguments here. She is the only character I dare call evil. But it should be added that we don't really know how far her criminal activities went during WiAB and by the time of SG. I'm not dismissing the possibility that she's a murderer.
2. William. Right next to his beloved sister. He's a real piece of shit and we haven't even seen his final form. The longer he stays in his hometown the lower he falls in my eyes.
So, Leia and William are the worst. The other three are not near them but they're still kinda bad.
3. Vanessa
4. Bella.
I'm a little conflicted about them. We know more about Bella's bad deeds and in total they outweigh poor Mario's ass imo. But since Bella sometimes feels remorse for her actions and Vanessa doesn't look like a person who care much, I'll put my favorite above Bella.
I like evil characters, for some reason i find them appealing.
I have been thinking in a relationship between Vanessa and Nika, i think they would match well
They have this "scanning" vibe, they are always observing their environment and trying to find weak spots in all the people, Vanessa even think what words say before speak.
I think the deleted dark path would had a strong path with Vanessa, and i think if some type of less happy ending exist Vanesaa could have importance.
I think Nika has a bit of the 'Robinhood' complex going on.
He knows that he can't right all wrongs, but he does not let power or wealth get in the way of trying to protect his loved ones and his friends.
I don't see taking $9K as theft - it is simply part of redressing the balance.
We are given the option to treat Mila to a meal, using Mario's $...
It is a quiet 'in your face' to Mario where Mario's $ is being used to help someone he has/does bully.
IMO - Nika sees taking Bella's sandwich (and eating it to satisfy his hunger) the same way he views taking Mario's $ - getting a little payback.
This fits with his desire to influence events/people from behind the scenes versus intentionally doing this publicly, putting himself at a greater risk of going to prison and Not being there to protect Noji/Nami and others he cares about.
I chose Not to spend any of that $ - treating Nika as smart enough to act and spend as he has before - not drawing attention to himself (not that this lunch would but it is more a theme of my primary playthrough).
In S2, Ocean may create options where we can spend/not spend that $ in a way that could help others who need it But, at the risk of putting him on the radar of the police/others who believe he Should Not have that level of resourcing.
I have been thinking that maybe Mario´s money is marked or something, i don´t know if his family have illegal activities but if the money is marked for some reason the moment Nika uses it the police will have a trace.
I think it could be a way to put the police on Nika´s life but i don´t know, for now i don´t see nothing really plausible about this.
And im pretty sure Willy and Miru are or will be murderers too, I think wiab will be about the creation of the Zane empire due to war, love and breeding all of wollust
I want to see how the Zanes found the college (or the renovation) with the Petrovas and the Revera. Seems like powerfull families so yeah, i pretty sure crime has an important place in Zane´s life. Well we know about Leia and her business so...
hey Bob ! , you can not try to use logic or fantasied about Ocean using logic or common sense on Summer's Gone.
remember that Ocean it's the guy that made the infamous jacuzzi scene , where Zara and Vanessa are getting naked in the tub with 2 people that they just met and these girls father is OK WITH IT !
It feels like you are applying an American, puritanical sense of nudity, to SG.
(And let's, for now, ignore the unisex showers at the university for... adults...)
In Europe, the hangup about nudity is not nearly so prevalent, especially in the right circumstances.
Austria and Germany, for example, have many spas called thermen — resorts with pools, saunas, lakes, restaurants, bars and treatment areas. These usually include an area where nudity is required.
If Nick and Noji are on the path to marriage - and both Zara and Nika seem to think that they are, then they will become a larger family.
Should Nick tell his daughters that they cannot live in their home as they have and that being naked with the son of the woman he is in love with (because let's be real here - that is what this is about) is something dirty?
Both Zara and Vanessa have no problem with honoring Zara's tradition.
If this one really bothered you, you might want to get some oxygen when...
I think Nika has a bit of the 'Robinhood' complex going on.
He knows that he can't right all wrongs, but he does not let power or wealth get in the way of trying to protect his loved ones and his friends.
I don't see taking $9K as theft - it is simply part of redressing the balance.
We are given the option to treat Mila to a meal, using Mario's $...
It is a quiet 'in your face' to Mario where Mario's $ is being used to help someone he has/does bully.
IMO - Nika sees taking Bella's sandwich (and eating it to satisfy his hunger) the same way he views taking Mario's $ - getting a little payback.
This fits with his desire to influence events/people from behind the scenes versus intentionally doing this publicly, putting himself at a greater risk of going to prison and Not being there to protect Noji/Nami and others he cares about.
I chose Not to spend any of that $ - treating Nika as smart enough to act and spend as he has before - not drawing attention to himself (not that this lunch would but it is more a theme of my primary playthrough).
In S2, Ocean may create options where we can spend/not spend that $ in a way that could help others who need it But, at the risk of putting him on the radar of the police/others who believe he Should Not have that level of resourcing.
I don't care about their regrets. Bella's regrets without consequences that affect her specifically are the reason why I so far don't rank her as much as Leia, Vanessa and Sasha. Despite the fact that there are similarities between the four of them. They are people who create around themselves a barrier of coldness, detachment, indifference and arrogance. But if you manage to break through this barrier you might see something interesting in them and maybe even change them for the better. I absolutely love this type of characters. Especially when their flaws, of which the barrier is made, are taken to the extreme. Vanessa and Leia are exactly that. Most will turn away and try to minimise time with them but specifically I really enjoy these characters.
Bella also can be classified as the extreme case. However, Ocean stumbles when it comes to her. I don't know, maybe it's her involvement in the main plot from the moment she appears. Perhaps I would have seen her differently if at first we had watched her from the side. But it's obvious to me that Ocean doesn't treat her the same way he treats Vanessa and Leia.
As I played both games, it really reminded me of the Gordon Ramsay meme.
Leia, Vanessa: "You fucking donkeys." (good example)
Bella: "Oh dear, oh dear. Gorgeous." (bad example)
Ocean doesn't give Vanessa and Leia any slack. The longer we spend time with Vanessa the more her flaws we notice. Compared to that, the backstory about her mother is such a minor detail that most people just don't care about it. In Leia's case, yes, at the end of ep.3 we hear a heartbreaking story about how she suffered after William's running away and how it shaped her as a person. But firstly, she was already a bully. Secondly, she faces the direct consequences of her actions. Third, we already know about her a lot and that a lot doesn't put her in a good light. I respect that approach. Ocean tries to present these characters objectively and he's certainly not afraid that we won't like them at all.
Bella is a completely different story. Ocean treats her like an angel. She meets Nika in the first half-hour of the game and falls in love with him within three chapters if the player allows it. I have no idea how things are going if the player follows her path, but outside of it there's no real tension between them. The only real fight they have is once at her house, the rest are mostly comedic. Her bad deeds alternate with attempts to understand and forgive her and they feels so forced. These attempts often come from Nika. When he and Mila have a conversation about her and Bella's past, he immediately starts blaming her and then concludes that Bella is not so bad at all. Mila agrees with him, probably, she was too harsh...
... What the hell is this? Why is there not a single important character in the entire game with whom Nika would start a serious argument about Bella? Everyone either agrees with her defense eventually or defends her. Mila wants to tell how Bella bullied people, but Nika interrupts. "No, I want to hear it from her." Yes, let's hear excuses from the bully about how she bullied her victims, not the victims themselves. And don't even start making excuses that most have bullied her before. In WiAB we hear both sides. Also, remember what answer Leia gave? "How dare she take what's mine." These are all her excuses. Straight to the point. No indulgence on Ocean's part.
There are situations where William and Leia literally slam each other against cars during their fights. There are characters who literally can't stand them both, especially they hate Leia. They always remind them how awful these two are. They are key characters, even LIs. Yet they don't give any concessions. They don't give a fuck how Leia suffered. And they are adults who understand more about life. Unlike SG characters who were teenagers just yesterday. Where is their maximalism, where is this simple division of people into those who they like and whom they hate?
And indeed, it's funny to hear excuses about Bella from Nika who takes an active part in her actions that reach crime activity. He sounds awfully hypocritical. I could consider this as a plus to the plot, because now we have a pseudo-moralist protagonist. But I wonder if Ocean actually sees it.
Hell, maybe Ocean hates Leia. I dunno.
Then he should hate Bella as well.
She will become more interesting.
Returning to the topic. The problem isn't Stefan and his family, the problem is Nika and Bella. Even if the Holgersons really are that bad, it shouldn't affect them both. Otherwise it's a cheap plot trick in an attempt to justify their actions. Mila's situation is just the raising the stakes. Besides I don't see Mila as a potential LI. What if I don't care about her or I just don't like her? Or for example I like Bella, so Mila's problems don't bother me as long as Bella gets away with her recklessness. If that's all Ocean does, it will be false consequences. I don't need half measures and excuses. Given the theme of healing, I want real shitstorm that not only punish the characters, but force them to change their behaviour.
Right now, my attitude towards Bella is at a critical point. The next will depend on how Ocean plays out the consequences. If somehow he screws up, Bella will fall straight to the bottom in my top. I don't care how well she is written and what a good chemistry she has with Nika, which is actually great, I'm serious. I'll repeat what I said in the off-topic thread. I never dislike a character for being a bad person. My feelings about characters are not dependent on how they treat the characters I like or main characters in particular. I accept them for who they are. It takes a lot of effort to make me really dislike them.
What I really dislike is bad writing. I'm sorry, but that's how I see the situation with Bella and how Ocean treats her. Unless, of course, Ocean is doing it on purpose to surprise us in some way. If he does this, Bella will join Vanessa, Leia and Sasha in my top.
Bella is far from perfect but she can’t be put in the same category as Vanessa and especially Leia.
Bella might be mean and arrogant but what you see it what you get with her unlike Vanessa. Remember how Vanessa deceived Bella and how she attempted to trick Nika? Bella can be unpleasant but she’s in your face, whereas Vanessa’s inner workings are a mystery, it makes her detached and scarier. Bella has displayed a vast range of emotions, we’ve seen her be happy, angry and sad, even cry. It depicts her as a more human, fragile person. This makes her more brodly likeable than Vanessa.
We are constantly reminded that Bella is not a sweet little angel, she is infamous in Wollust. Nami rightfully expresses her dislike for her, the guys from the basketball team who know her from a long time too, Mila who is mature and drops the subject with Nika when she sees that he’s trying to understand Bella, and her mom who chastises her when she acts up. Nika himself calls her out whenever she crosses the line, it’s the main driving force behind Bella’s improvement as a person.
The game is Bella centric but in light of all this Ocean handled her well. She doesn’t deserve to be punished further for her actions, her guilt is enough punishment and she has shown to have grown into a better version of herself since the start when she was a complete bully.
To end this, I can see why Bella and Nika wanted to get even with the Holgersons. They have beef with them, it’s not mature but it makes sense considering their personalities.
Simply put, Nika and Bella are idiots.
The fact that they are idiots makes the consequences even more important.
I never thought Bella was smart. Nika seemed smart to me at first. But the more I think about what they're doing, the more I come to the conclusion that he is smart and stupid at the same time.
Realistically, if they had continued with their plan regarding Vanessa, they would've definitely failed.
They don't stand a chance against her. She would have bulldoze them over. That's not even a fair fight.
It's kinda disappointing. These kids need someone who spank their asses.
Vanessa would be perfect for this role.
And yes, I'm also starting to suspect that the Holgersons probably aren't that bad.
At least Stefan. And Mario is just a dumb kid. To me, Nika and Bella are more awful.
Speaking of awful people. Among major characters, my top 5 looks like this:
1. Leia. I don't think I even need to spell out any serious arguments here. She is the only character I dare call evil. But it should be added that we don't really know how far her criminal activities went during WiAB and by the time of SG. I'm not dismissing the possibility that she's a murderer.
2. William. Right next to his beloved sister. He's a real piece of shit and we haven't even seen his final form. The longer he stays in his hometown the lower he falls in my eyes.
So, Leia and William are the worst. The other three are not near them but they're still kinda bad.
3. Vanessa
4. Bella.
I'm a little conflicted about them. We know more about Bella's bad deeds and in total they outweigh poor Mario's ass imo. But since Bella sometimes feels remorse for her actions and Vanessa doesn't look like a person who care much, I'll put my favorite above Bella.
