VN Ren'Py Summer's Gone [S1 Steam + DLC] [Oceanlab]

[BobTheDuck]

Bob...I mean this in the most loving way possible...but maybe you need to go outside more

Well, at the moment outside is giving me bad hayfever, so ...I'll wait until summer's gone to get some fresh air in autumn?

Sorry, that was too terrible a joke to resist.

As far as the Nami thing goes, I'm holding off until we know if they we brought by storks, or left under mushrooms or something. Ocean recently said on discord "future updates will answer" when someone asked recently. So maybe we'll find out whether stork or changeling backstory in a future update that is as defined as Nika and Nami's current status.

 

[Jacowboy]

The answer is we do not know for sure yet. So far Ocean has provided no clarity regarding their relationship but he has decided to future-proof both his games to ensure he won't face issues with publishers and music license holders. So yeah, expect them to NOT be related moving forward.

Personally I think it's pretty clear to anyone with half a brain that whether you play with or without a patch, the story and dialogue only makes any sense if they are siblings or half siblings.

I mean, not necessarily, first time I ever played it was w/o patch and it worked fine enough because well, they can both be adopted without being related...

That said, yeah some of the flashback might be a bit problematic if he decides to nuke the incest thing... although, now that I think about it, I just don't remember if they ever mention MC & Nami's parents at all at any point

When did asian mommy adopt them anyways? haven't played it in a while, I kinda forgot...

Oh and thanks for the answer... I suppose I'll just omit the incest tag for now... =/

 

[Pl@y3r]

Bob...I mean this in the most loving way possible...but maybe you need to go outside more

 

[BobTheDuck]

I mean, not necessarily, first time I ever played it was w/o patch and it worked fine enough because well, they can both be adopted without being related...

That said, yeah some of the flashback might be a bit problematic if he decides to nuke the incest thing... although, now that I think about it, I just don't remember if they ever mention MC & Nami's parents at all at any point

When did asian mommy adopt them anyways? haven't played it in a while, I kinda forgot...

Oh and thanks for the answer... I suppose I'll just omit the incest tag for now... =/

Yes, the parents are mentioned multiple times:

Spoiler: Nika talking with Zara

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Spoiler: Nika's internal monologue near the start

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Those are probably the clearest ones I can remember. We don't even know if Noji adopted them, is their legal guardian, fostering them. All we know is she owns a house, and they don't pay rent (because Nami suggests they start helping Noji by getting jobs).

I can't recall a single flashback with Nami that would be an issue, they're already old enough to mostly talk more sense than a three year old, so no need to retrofit parent renders etc.

View attachment 4159334

Bravo, well pl@y3d!

 

[Jacowboy]

Yes, the parents are mentioned multiple times:

Spoiler: Nika talking with Zara

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Spoiler: Nika's internal monologue near the start

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Those are probably the clearest ones I can remember. We don't even know if Noji adopted them, is their legal guardian, fostering them. All we know is she owns a house, and they don't pay rent (because Nami suggests they start helping Noji by getting jobs).

I can't recall a single flashback with Nami that would be an issue, they're already old enough to mostly talk more sense than a three year old, so no need to retrofit parent renders etc.

huh... so yeah, that's why it didn't bother me the first time w/o the incest patch... although I do remember that I didn't quite get the whole thing with Summer... like at first I thought the 3 of them were together in the same orphanage or something...

 

[Pl@y3r]

Bravo, well pl@y3d!

Sorry, just like you, couldn't resist.

 

[BobTheDuck]

huh... so yeah, that's why it didn't bother me the first time w/o the incest patch... although I do remember that I didn't quite get the whole thing with Summer... like at first I thought the 3 of them were together in the same orphanage or something...

Nami meets Summer somewhere, but later on they're both at a girl's camp, so I guess we assume Summer was met at a camp:

Spoiler: Nika's first flashback with Amber

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[Jacowboy]

right... well it seems he could easily make it so the three of them were in the system early on and met in an orphanage or something like that and not be related at all without much issue, if he decides to permanently remove the incest...

although I really don't see the point to it considering the other game... that one just wouldn't work without it.

 

[BobTheDuck]

right... well it seems he could easily make it so the three of them were in the system early on and met in an orphanage or something like that and not be related at all without much issue, if he decides to permanently remove the incest...

although I really don't see the point to it considering the other game... that one just wouldn't work without it.

Spoiler: You should ready the section on change

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I've posted it a lot here, because since this devlog, it's really hard to decide what is actually the case until the next WiaB update comes out. If an SG update comes out before, we'll probably be able to second guess some of how the change will work in practice, obviously a bigger effect in WiaB, but there will be flow through to SG.

 

[RNasc4444]

I mean, not necessarily, first time I ever played it was w/o patch and it worked fine enough because well, they can both be adopted without being related...

The thing is there are multiple instances of dialogue that make no sense whatsoever in any other context. The example I always provide because it stands out is Mila and Zara asking the MC why Nami is a redhead. Why in the fuck would they EVER ask that if they weren't related? There is no reason to. Makes no logical sense to.

If you pay little to no attention to what is said then I would understand how the unpatched version makes sense to you but otherwise...

 

[Dr.TSoni]

The thing is there are multiple instances of dialogue that make no sense whatsoever in any other context. The example I always provide because it stands out is Mila and Zara asking the MC why Nami is a redhead. Why in the fuck would they EVER ask that if they weren't related? There is no reason to. Makes no logical sense to.

If you pay little to no attention to what is said then I would understand how the unpatched version makes sense to you but otherwise...

Let's not forget that it is very important that two unrelated roommates do not copulate, It's a real taboo

 

[LHDLLB]

The thing is there are multiple instances of dialogue that make no sense whatsoever in any other context. The example I always provide because it stands out is Mila and Zara asking the MC why Nami is a redhead. Why in the fuck would they EVER ask that if they weren't related? There is no reason to. Makes no logical sense to.

If you pay little to no attention to what is said then I would understand how the unpatched version makes sense to you but otherwise...

This could be easily explained with Zara and Mila thinking they are related, and then they clarifying that they are just roommates. The problem is why Mc and Nami is so taboo, why the "Race of Impossible Odds" choices why they could not kiss at Vic's, I don't know how Ocean will explain it.

He wants to move away from it because he needs to eat and financial security, but how he will make sense of the story I don't know. Is not like he can keep the ambiguiness for long either. I just can not think of a solution that fits it.

Moving forward I don't think that we can expect this type of content on either game, regardless of how much sense it makes or not.

 

[Don Sucio]

Yes, the parents are mentioned multiple times:

Spoiler: Nika talking with Zara

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Spoiler: Nika's internal monologue near the start

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Those are probably the clearest ones I can remember. We don't even know if Noji adopted them, is their legal guardian, fostering them. All we know is she owns a house, and they don't pay rent (because Nami suggests they start helping Noji by getting jobs).

I can't recall a single flashback with Nami that would be an issue, they're already old enough to mostly talk more sense than a three year old, so no need to retrofit parent renders etc.

And if they are ralated at the end? Maybe both lost their parents in a car accident because they are siblings and for some reason someone don´t want them to know so they have been raised as roomates

 

[RNasc4444]

This could be easily explained with Zara and Mila thinking they are related, and then they clarifying that they are just roommates. The problem is why Mc and Nami is so taboo, why the "Race of Impossible Odds" choices why they could not kiss at Vic's, I don't know how Ocean will explain it.

He wants to move away from it because he needs to eat and financial security, but how he will make sense of the story I don't know. Is not like he can keep the ambiguiness for long either. I just can not think of a solution that fits it.

Moving forward I don't think that we can expect this type of content on either game, regardless of how much sense it makes or not.

Even if my brain could ignore the inconsistencies of them asking why she's red, there is no way I can make up excuses for the "Race of Impossible odds" like you mentioned, or Nojiko being so concerned about their "weird" relationship or the fact that them, two completely unrelated people, could not make out in front of Vic and Mila, or the subsequent conversation before getting to the pizza place.

It just doesn't add up. I'm sorry but as it stands, I have to reiterate. There is only one way the dialogue makes any sense. On this hill I would die. Any day of the week.

 

[Dr.TSoni]

And if they are ralated at the end? Maybe both lost their parents in a car accident because they are siblings and for some reason someone don´t want them to know so they have been raised as roomates
View attachment 4159585

At this point we're like in Kung Pow: Nojiko raised them badly on purpose, as a joke

Even if my brain could ignore the inconsistencies of them asking why she's red, there is no way I can make up excuses for the "Race of Impossible odds" like you mentioned, or Nojiko being so concerned about their "weird" relationship or the fact that them, two completely unrelated people, could not make out in front of Vic and Mila, or the subsequent conversation before getting to the pizza place.

It just doesn't add up. I'm sorry but as it stands, I have to reiterate. There is only one way the dialogue makes any sense. On this hill I would die. Any day of the week.

I don't understand why not change some dialogues to fix the dynamics between Nami and Nika

 

[RNasc4444]

I don't understand why not change some dialogues to fix the dynamics between Nami and Nika

I did suggest a new release of season 1 with only changes to the script. Clean up the dialogue and make their relationship clearer from the get-go. But some people started freaking out thinking I was suggesting yet another rework

Also after all the rushed changes he had to do to get the game published on Steam, I doubt Ocean wants to go back to the S1 release. I got the feeling he just wanted to move forward so he'll probably explain things later and leave the S1 shitshow as is.

 

[BobTheDuck]

Even if my brain could ignore the inconsistencies of them asking why she's red, there is no way I can make up excuses for the "Race of Impossible odds" like you mentioned, or Nojiko being so concerned about their "weird" relationship or the fact that them, two completely unrelated people, could not make out in front of Vic and Mila, or the subsequent conversation before getting to the pizza place.

It just doesn't add up. I'm sorry but as it stands, I have to reiterate. There is only one way the dialogue makes any sense. On this hill I would die. Any day of the week.

I agree with you on the whole about their reactions not making sense, but the line about being red? The script literally points out they have different parents at that exact point. In normal english, we'd understand that the stress on 'her' parents vs 'your' parents is 100% clear when mentioned sequentially, especially followed by 'they' 'and (what about) Nami's?' It'sclear what the script means there.

za "Why is she red?"
scene ad959 with dssa
d "That you'll have to ask her parents."
scene ad960 with dssa
za "What happened to yours?"
scene ad961 with dssa
d "They died in a car accident."
scene ad960 with dssa
za "And Nami's?"
scene ad961 with dssa
d "Believe it or not... The same."

So... believe it or not, the line here with Zara shows that the race against impossible odds doesn't make sense, their behaviour doesn't make sense, not their history. It's the same as when everyone thought they were a cute couple. The script makes sense, Nami and Nika's reactions don't.

Besides, given Nami's porn habits, if I were Noji I'd be worried about her weird relationships ALL.THE.TIME.

How Ocean reconciles their behaviour with their history, well, I'm as keen as you for it to be cleared up and neatly explained. Based on the current script, it is their hangup that is th oddity.

And if they are ralated at the end? Maybe both lost their parents in a car accident because they are siblings and for some reason someone don´t want them to know so they have been raised as roomates
View attachment 4159585

Everyone is SG knows and obeys the ToS that Ocean operates under, so I can't see how Nika or Nami would be so disrespectful to Ocean. Maybe that's a deadpool style fourth wall breaking - Nika and Nami know Ocean is against them!

 

[LHDLLB]

Even if my brain could ignore the inconsistencies of them asking why she's red, there is no way I can make up excuses for the "Race of Impossible odds" like you mentioned, or Nojiko being so concerned about their "weird" relationship or the fact that them, two completely unrelated people, could not make out in front of Vic and Mila, or the subsequent conversation before getting to the pizza place.

It just doesn't add up. I'm sorry but as it stands, I have to reiterate. There is only one way the dialogue makes any sense. On this hill I would die. Any day of the week.

Oh I completely agree with you, was reinforcing your point not contraring it. The problem is that we know that the oblivious answer is not on the table anymore, the question then is how will Ocean handle the problem? And how much it will affect the story? Personally I don't have a clue and I don't think he can maintain the uncertainty of it either, so he either as a one hell of a explanation or this part of the game will always have a weirdness about it. The same goes for WiaB, we are speculating that the twins are adopted, but I don't think Patreon distinguishes between blood and law relations as some might do, and if William is not even adopted then that story really needs some really good explanation to make sense.

 

[BobTheDuck]

story really needs some really good explanation to make sense.

Yes.

I like the stories of both games, but currently they both have holes that need filling. Normally that comment means something else on this forum... anyway...

Remember that WiaB isn't on patreon, so the future proofing is not only concerning what we currently know, but about Ocean's plot moving forward for both games, and ensuring the details aren't mistaken. Ocean also mentions about how to make sure they make sense for the kind of story he wants to tell.

 

[dameromexxx]

About Nika and Nami. Ocean just needs to put the entire narrative weight on the fear of Nojiko discovering their affair.
Let's start with a few tearful flashbacks from their childhood where Nojiko hugs them and says you're like my children to me. You need to create the impression that Nojiko treats them like her real children and will never accept any intimacy between them. And then you have an explanation for why they have to hide. If someone from the College knows, then the whole College knows, and so does Zara, and if she knows, then so does Nick, and if he knows, then so does Nojiko.