VN Ren'Py Summer's Gone [S1 Steam + DLC] [Oceanlab]

[CrazyRabbit]

I think this thread is the closest thing we'll ever have to a time loop

 

[sorco2003]

Correct, with one exception. Most, I'm not saying all, but most of these "will this ever be finished" messages imply, either directly or between the lines, that the dev is incompetent and doesn't know what he's doing. That the work he did could have been done much faster. That the game in its current state is not worth attention. It's all blatant lies and crap out of their arses.

It seems to me that you read too much "between the lines"... and furthermore, trying to appear impartial, you are directly saying that "they" are all the same.
I have all my reservations about many aspects of SG, and when I read a true hater, I just let it go, because the attack on that post is just stretching the topic beyond what it's worth. If it has a debatable point, I debate, if there are lies (both intentional and from new people who don't know the history) I say so, but that's where the issue dies. Making a post in response, where the only thing that is clear is "complaining about the complainer" does not add up, it subtracts.
having said that...

 

[Trojaner]

It seems to me that you read too much "between the lines"... and furthermore, trying to appear impartial, you are directly saying that "they" are all the same.
I have all my reservations about many aspects of SG, and when I read a true hater, I just let it go, because the attack on that post is just stretching the topic beyond what it's worth. If it has a debatable point, I debate, if there are lies (both intentional and from new people who don't know the history) I say so, but that's where the issue dies. Making a post in response, where the only thing that is clear is "complaining about the complainer" does not add up, it subtracts.
having said that...
View attachment 2852864

 

[sorco2003]

I think this thread is the closest thing we'll ever have to a time loop

That's the part you have to resign yourself to having when a game is growing non-stop. Lots of new people, lots of people noticing the same thing they did 4 years ago, lots of conversation that's already been had... and the more the game grows, the faster the loop presents itself!

 

[rj677]

Yeah... the constant complaining is getting rather annoying. If the update cycle's not something you can cope with, or the rework & changes to the story aren't things you can live with... then why not leave? These grand announcements of how this user won't play the game because of X, and that user hates it because of Y... they're getting quite old. If these things bother you so much, why not leave and scratch Summer's Gone off of your list? Why stay to announce to the world that you decided not to pirate this game? Like omg! Whatever will Oceans do about a random F95 user who decided that they're no longer going to pirate his game??

I honestly get the frustration; some of it is definitely warranted... but some of you need to relax. Find another game to play... or better yet, do something rather than stalking these pages waiting for the right moment to meme about how your grandkids may finally experience the end of this game. Since I'm probably the only girl here right now, I'll say it. It's kind of sad that for some of you, your only comments are about how Oceans is a bad developer, how the development cycle upsets you, or some other flaw of this game. My goodness, find something else to do because seeing so many users add nothing more to the conversation than ripping on the game... gets proper annoying. Often enough, I saw people voicing their praise for the game, saying how much they love this and can't wait for that, and some of you guys will show up(out of nowhere) and go out of your way to kill their joy for the game. It's literally crazy how some of you will go out of your way to do this kind of stuff. Hundreds of games on this site, and you choose to spend your time annoying people in SG's thread. That's... kind of sad

Some of you will hate me for this(if you don't already), but I'll say it anyway. Some of these critique/review posts seem disingenuous... almost as if some people came here just to complain. The last few pages have been 70% made up of people complaining that they'll never see the end of this game and the fact that Oceans will rework this game to death. If you truly believe that, truly believe that Oceans will never improve and genuinely believe that Ocean's pace will stay the same forever... leave. If you think honestly that Oceans is out to rework this game every single season... leave. Save yourselves the heartache. This thread can do without all of the extra negativityღ

Like I can't stress enough how dumb this all is lolღ

If you are looking to troll a thread and talk smack about the dev and/or their creation, expecting no one will actually call you out on your BS, you simply picked the wrong thread.

Cheers!

First of all: I dont mean to insult Ocean or his loyalists who use this thread every day. This is meant to be constructive criticism and an unbiased opinion .

I know that Mr. PaxHadrian17 is gonna be a detective and see my profile and will "call me out on my BS" if he can, so Im gonna tell you exactly what you are gonna find there: 1 post here a few days ago memeing about the 32 chapters (who didnt??), 1 post on WIAB, and since I came back after some time off F95 I have been mostly posting/following just 1 game. If you do more investigating you will also find out that I kissed Oceans ass so much before that my lips almost came off, so yeah ...

-My main problem with this game and Ocean is the fact that after everything he has done since I made those posts, I simply cant trust him anymore ... Too many reworks usually do that to any project: Im not saying the rework was necessarily "bad", but it makes you not trust anything that comes out since it can all be changed
-Then you have the all "hardware/software situation": it feels like, at least to someone like me that doesnt follow the discord, that hes more worried about getting the "perfect equipment" than making both games... Whats gonna happen when the RTX 5090 comes out next year? Another upgrade and we wait longer?

Spoiler: Just for PaxHadrian17 or anyone who wants to be an FBI agent

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So yeah, everything I mentioned makes blindly trusting Ocean (like it seems a lot of people do here) really difficult for me to understand... A dev that is clearly talented but too much in his/her own head unfortunately, the only sample we have for his projects is WIAB that was essentially abandoned (sorry, "redone" COPIUM) and that really thinks that making 2 games is the best way: Half content to both games instead of double for one game

I really wish him/her luck because I like this game and love WIAB, but NO WAY does this dev deserve anything close to blind trust unless he can actually keep a schedule and shows us hes really capable of doing this impossible task

PS: I realize that many people are trolls/stupid and that the loyalists need to "clap back" sometimes, but everyone just needs to learn how to ignore those people instead of putting fuel in the fire . Fortuna ღ here, a post without memes, waiting times and from someone who has kissed Ocean ass as much as I also can be objective about kicking it . Cheers!

 

[PickerLewd]

Spoiler: Please

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Spoiler: I hope one day

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[Fortuna ღ]

It's not about hate or constant complaining, it's about genuine curiosity - will we ever see the end of this game?
But.. Do you really think that the day will come when we will see REALLY ALL the planned chapters?
Honestly, I don't think so. I hope I'm wrong.

I don't know because as much as I love this game, I can't see the future. And the concerns that some of you guys have about Ocean's ambitious goals are quite valid, but with how many of you post about this same exact thing every single day, don't you think we get it? Like seriously. After a certain point, it goes beyond genuine curiosity because what are you looking for? Are you looking for someone to validate your views of how this game will never end? Looking for someone to argue with? Because, and I'll be real with you, most people that come here aren't really interested in arguing about this stuff. Darling, you're looking for someone to change your mind, and you'd be hard-pressed to find that. Ask yourself if you're really ok with the possibility that SG won't end for quite a few years, and depending on the answer you come to, you'll find out if it makes sense for you to be here or not.

As I said earlier, some of you do have valid concerns, but after a certain point, all you're doing is spreading negativity. Not everyone's in the mood to defend why they still support the game or argue that Oceanlabs is, in fact, a person that learns(and improves) and will not operate at the same fixed pace foreverღ

Both sides are the same, with one complaining about everything and the other living in an echo chamber and attempting to defend the game even when the other side has a point.

An echo chamber would have been if these users received immediate backlash for their differing opinions, but scroll back about half-a-dozen pages, and you won't see much of that. Some users I agree with, such as the lovely guy(forgot his name) that had an actual back-and-forth with Oceans about his concerns, screenshots and all. I love that kind of criticism. If your posts are like his, you won't hear from me at allღ

I'll be clear that I never said not to voice your(generally speaking) concerns... just that the constant utterance on every other page got annoying. SG isn't perfect, and the development cycle could be better. There's just a way to do things. If you have genuine concerns, tag Oceanlabs with your critiques. He's the kind of dev that's open to this kind of stuff because, again, he's trying to get better. But there's a difference between tagging with genuine concerns and tagging to be a nuisance. If you guys think that I was bad before, you will hate me for how I'll handle nuisances... lolღ

rj677 I'll get to you soonღ

 

[sungoesdown ♡]

I don't know because as much as I love this game, I can't see the future. And the concerns that some of you guys have about Ocean's ambitious goals are quite valid, but with how many of you post about this same exact thing every single day, don't you think we get it? Like seriously. After a certain point, it goes beyond genuine curiosity because what are you looking for? Are you looking for someone to validate your views of how this game will never end? Looking for someone to argue with? Because, and I'll be real with you, most people that come here aren't really interested in arguing about this stuff. Darling, you're looking for someone to change your mind, and you'd be hard-pressed to find that. Ask yourself if you're really ok with the possibility that SG won't end for quite a few years, and depending on the answer you come to, you'll find out if it makes sense for you to be here or not.

As I said earlier, some of you do have valid concerns, but after a certain point, all you're doing is spreading negativity. Not everyone's in the mood to defend why they still support the game or argue that Oceanlabs is, in fact, a person that learns(and improves) and will not operate at the same fixed pace foreverღ

I don't read the thread 24/7 and I don't read every discord message, I don't know everything.

So for me after a certain point it's still a curiosity.

 

[Fortuna ღ]

-My main problem with this game and Ocean is the fact that after everything he has done since I made those posts, I simply cant trust him anymore ... Too many reworks usually do that to any project: Im not saying the rework was necessarily "bad", but it makes you not trust anything that comes out since it can all be changed

Darling, there's been one rework. Chapter 1 - Chapter 3.5 was one big rework. Furthermore, the only reason the rework was done is because the difference in render quality and writing style was night and day. It's not like BADIK, where the writing and rendering quality almost unnoticeably got better... MC was almost a completely different character in Chapters 4 and up, as opposed to Chapters 1-3.5 pre-rework. The same can be said for pretty-much everyone that was shown before Chapter 4. From a business standpoint, it's all about delivering the best product towards customers in the hopes that they'd be enticed to come back for more of that product. I don't expect the average F95 user to understand, but this was done with more of the long-term in mind, whereas all the average F95 user sees is, "I want an update, and I want it now! Why don't I have my update yet?? Huh? Reworks?!?" What makes this a tad more frustrating is the fact that this was explained to death already. Unless there is yet another drastic change in his writing and rendering quality, another rework is not planned for the foreseeable future.

-Then you have the all "hardware/software situation": it feels like, at least to someone like me that doesnt follow the discord, that hes more worried about getting the "perfect equipment" than making both games... Whats gonna happen when the RTX 5090 comes out next year? Another upgrade and we wait longer?

So... you know that he's developing two full games simultaneously, and yet, you still don't understand why he's looking for better equipment? Lmaooo I didn't even have to reply to this. If you still don't understand, I'm sure you can guess how hard it is to develop two different games at the same exact time, and I'm sure you would have guessed by now that this is one of the main things contributing to Ocean's excessive development cycle. To combat this, Oceans aims to purchase better/more powerful hardware in order to get more work done in a shorter period of time. Most, if not all, developers on this site have done this. I honestly don't get the point of this critique. Everyone wants a shorter development cycle. Beyond hiring a team(which isn't a feasible option at the moment) to handle tasks and relieve him of some pressure, this is his only other option to make shorter development cycles. This is all considering his unwillingness to put WIAB on hold(which I get... but still somewhat disagree with).

So yeah, everything I mentioned makes blindly trusting Ocean (like it seems a lot of people do here)

No one blindly trusts him. I personally critique him quite brutally both before and after each update, and I make it clear that there is still constant room for improvement. Everyone here knows that there are problems. Pretending that SG is all perfect and has no flaws is akin to sticking your head in the sand. Most people who support him are already aware of all of this.

and that really thinks that making 2 games is the best way: Half content to both games instead of double for one game

I actually somewhat agree with this. SG would have been at, like, what... Chapter 9? Chapter 10? It would have been much further along if Oceans were developing it alone rather than trying to develop both WIAB and SG simultaneously. At the same time, I relate to his feelings of not abandoning it or putting it on hold because it is close to him creatively. As an artist myself, I get that. Personally, I don't say much about it, but I'm not stopping anyone from voicing their dissatisfaction. He says it helps with burnout, and that's honestly the last thing anyone wants, so there's that, lol.

I really wish him/her luck because I like this game and love WIAB, but NO WAY does this dev deserve anything close to blind trust unless he can actually keep a schedule and shows us hes really capable of doing this impossible task

That's a totally reasonable take, but, and I hate to break it to everyone... there won't be a set update schedule for at least a few more years. They'll keep getting shorter, yes, but they will still fluctuate. There won't be a set schedule for a long time, so if that's also a dealbreaker(and it's a totally reasonable one), better to cut your losses now.

PS: I realize that many people are trolls/stupid and that the loyalists need to "clap back" sometimes, but everyone just needs to learn how to ignore those people instead of putting fuel in the fire

First of all: I dont mean to insult Ocean or his loyalists who use this thread every day. This is meant to be constructive criticism and an unbiased opinion .

Darling... I've been here a while. Since the start of quarantine, the number of devs I've seen come and go(often chased off by users) in that period is staggering. So much so that F95 now has a terribly bad rep amongst developers. After a particularly unpleasant situation involving a dev that I really liked(that involved them being chased off the site), I won't let the same thing happen here. That's why I will always say something when or if the negativity gets out of hand or if a troll is out of control. Call it what you want thoughღ

Fortuna ღ here, a post without memes, waiting times and from someone who has kissed Ocean ass as much as I also can be objective about kicking it . Cheers!

I'm going to choose to ignore the obvious implications of this because a proper response wouldn't be nice for anybodyღ

Edit: Lol, and I don't read this thread every day. SG is the only AVN I still actively follow on this website. I disappear for weeks(or months) because, like the rest of you(I hope), I have a very busy life. When I'm here, I'm only here for like half an hour(if even). If I reply to a post, then darling, it's by chance. Your post was just there in the right place at the right timeღ

 

[codex35]

all I think about right now how can I make this heart icon

 

[Ottoeight]

A few months ago SG patrons doubled his WIAB patrons. Now he's got 1367 SG patrons and 429 WIAB patrons.

He should have realized what he should do by now.

 

[Uriel ☁]

@rj677 I'll get to you soonღ

If you ever read this directed at you, run!

 

[rj677]

Darling, there's been one rework. Chapter 1 - Chapter 3.5 was one big rework. Furthermore, the only reason the rework was done is because the difference in render quality and writing style was night and day. It's not like BADIK, where the writing and rendering quality almost unnoticeably got better... MC was almost a completely different character in Chapters 4 and up, as opposed to Chapters 1-3.5 pre-rework. I don't expect the average F95 user to understand, but this was done with more of the long-term in mind.

First point: My bad on that one then... I thought Ocean already had done a rework when he first took over the game (being that the first one) and then he did the one he is doing right now after only 4 chapters.
I didnt want to get into rework talk because like you said it was already more than discussed, but for me it had good things and bad things... Story wise, pre rework for me worked better in the sense that the MC actually went through a change throughout the updates until what he was in chapter 4, even though I admit it was maybe a bit too quick for that to happen.

Second point: Ouch, average F95 user... Let me tell you something: Doing things with the "long-term in mind" would be doing all this rework right when he picked this game up... Timing was the bigger issue for me because it managed to somehow feel early and late at the same time . Not the fact that it happened or its content.

So... you know that he's developing two full games simultaneously, and yet, you still don't understand why he's looking for better equipment? To combat this, Oceans aims to purchase better/more powerful hardware in order to get more work done in a shorter period of time. Most, if not all, developers on this site have done this.

Fortuna, darling, it saddens me to see that you just blatantly didnt read what I said unfortunately... Theres a difference between "Better" and "Perfect". My point wasnt that he didnt need or that he shouldnt look for better equips. My point was that "Perfect" in both hardware and software (as with everything to be fair ) is really hard if not impossible to achieve because new and better is always coming out... Even his new workstation will be "outdated" in the matter of a year (if not less). Now that he has the best setup he can assemble, lets see if he can focus all his efforts on the games and makes WIAB fans not have to wait 10 months for a new update *fingers crossed*. Getting worried about "Perfect" is just a waste of time IMHO.

This is all considering his unwillingness to put WIAB on hold(which I get... but still somewhat disagree with).

Well... For me personally the story with the highest ceiling is WIAB... But even if it was WIAB to be put on hold, I would be happy because that would mean that he could get into his groove with one game. But I also can see both yours and his points on making an effort for both...

there won't be a set update schedule for at least a few more years

I know that... What I meant by "keep a schedule" is to keep it somewhat "regular"... If he would have said now that everything would always be 6/6 or 8/8 months guaranteed I would have yelled Bullshit already

Darling... I've been here a while. Since the start of quarantine, the number of devs I've seen come and go(often chased off by users) in that period is staggering. So much so that F95 now has a terribly bad rep amongst developers. After a particularly unpleasant situation involving a dev that I really liked(that involved them being chased off the site).

That says more about the devs than about the F95 users to be honest with you... They (as well as everyone else) need to understand that this is a forum and that they shouldnt worry about every single post. They should know some people on a free pirate site would just be toxic and dont deserve the attention of the dev itself. But I agree its sad to see the hatred for this place (even though some of the devs start getting upset because they are already "famous", which isnt the case here)

That's why I will always say something when or if the negativity gets out of hand or if a troll is out of control. Call it what you want thoughღ. If I reply to a post, then darling, it's by chance. Your post was just there in the right place at the right timeღ

Thank you for having time to actually do an amazing clap back and make this into a fun debate for me. Im glad we got the chance to do this. Well played darling. I hope we get to do this again

If you ever read this directed at you, run!

Why run though?... This person actually put up a fight and showed that she knew her stuff. She actually impressed me. A good clap back without having to investigate/snoop on anyones profile/profile pic or having to say people "arent relaxed" or are "whining" . More debates should show this level of commitment and knowledge to be honest with you.

 

[Razrback16]

A few months ago SG patrons doubled his WIAB patrons. Now he's got 1367 SG patrons and 429 WIAB patrons.

He should have realized what he should do by now.

I know Ocean has said the reason he does one day on one game and then one on the other is to avoid burnout, but your post does make me wonder if he would ever consider doing like 2 days SG and then 1 day WIAB to speed up development of what is clearly the more popular game whilst still not focusing every waking moment on it and still giving time to WIAB which also deserves work since it has support as well.

I had not realized there was such a stark difference in patronage until you posted those numbers.

 

[idontdreamwhenisleep69]

Most are failing to see the big picture here. Ocean has been a great communicator regarding important project milestones.

- WIAB CH3 (~ Early September)
- SG CH5 (~Late September)
- STEAM RELEASE (Unknown)
- WORKSTATION (Unknown, post steam release)

We have a ballpark schedule for the next two chapters, after which will be the steam release. Assuming a successful launch, Ocean will be able to buy his workstation. This has a couple implications.

1) While I don't doubt Ocean's dedication, a significant investment such as a workstation should be a crystal clear sign of commitment to seeing these games to their conclusions.
2) Subsequent releases will be an indicator whether or not the new hardware can improve development time.

Quit with the doom-saying, it is unproductive. While there is currently no way to predict how things will shake out, there will be soon.

 

[PaxHadrian17]

First of all: I dont mean to insult Ocean or his loyalists who use this thread every day. This is meant to be constructive criticism and an unbiased opinion .

I know that Mr. PaxHadrian17 is gonna be a detective and see my profile and will "call me out on my BS" if he can, so Im gonna tell you exactly what you are gonna find there: 1 post here a few days ago memeing about the 32 chapters (who didnt??), 1 post on WIAB, and since I came back after some time off F95 I have been mostly posting/following just 1 game. If you do more investigating you will also find out that I kissed Oceans ass so much before that my lips almost came off, so yeah ...

-My main problem with this game and Ocean is the fact that after everything he has done since I made those posts, I simply cant trust him anymore ... Too many reworks usually do that to any project: Im not saying the rework was necessarily "bad", but it makes you not trust anything that comes out since it can all be changed
-Then you have the all "hardware/software situation": it feels like, at least to someone like me that doesnt follow the discord, that hes more worried about getting the "perfect equipment" than making both games... Whats gonna happen when the RTX 5090 comes out next year? Another upgrade and we wait longer?

Spoiler: Just for PaxHadrian17 or anyone who wants to be an FBI agent

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

So yeah, everything I mentioned makes blindly trusting Ocean (like it seems a lot of people do here) really difficult for me to understand... A dev that is clearly talented but too much in his/her own head unfortunately, the only sample we have for his projects is WIAB that was essentially abandoned (sorry, "redone" COPIUM) and that really thinks that making 2 games is the best way: Half content to both games instead of double for one game

I really wish him/her luck because I like this game and love WIAB, but NO WAY does this dev deserve anything close to blind trust unless he can actually keep a schedule and shows us hes really capable of doing this impossible task

PS: I realize that many people are trolls/stupid and that the loyalists need to "clap back" sometimes, but everyone just needs to learn how to ignore those people instead of putting fuel in the fire . Fortuna ღ here, a post without memes, waiting times and from someone who has kissed Ocean ass as much as I also can be objective about kicking it . Cheers!

Fortuna ღ did a great job responding to the post that was directed at her.

As for me - I am hardly a detective. The person you are commenting on just appeared out of nowhere and started spewing garbage - not facts. I chose to see who this was, and it looked like an alt account to me - so I called him out on it.

I don't know who you are, and your posting history is not something I would bother checking. FYI - I specifically chose Not to hide my posting history. If someone wants to check up on me and call me out for being supportive of the communities I participate in, or generally supportive of devs who create AVNs I enjoy - have at it!

You mentioned trust.

That is not something I can help you with - you don't trust Ocean and that is a personal choice that is not debatable.

I trust Ocean, based on the work he is doing and the communications I have had with him.

So - on Trust - we have to agree to disagree.

He's said that he is developing SG and WIAB concurrently to help combat burnout, so I support this approach.

I would not presume to tell Any creator how to manage burnout - each of us uses different methods (my own have varying levels of success) and I trust each creator to do what works best for them.

We have lost Far too many good/great creators on F95, and burnout is one of the major contributors to the loss of many of these creators.

Ocean is Not a perfect creator nor is SG the perfect AVN.

He is someone who is a master of his craft (IMO) and he continues to push himself to add software tools, hardware, and English writing skills to his development toolbox - all as part of getting better at creating SG and WIAB.

He also works to team with others where he can/it supports his needs, and he has enjoyed some success here (trouble with the in-game phone being the one he talked about as not working out - details already discussed in prior posts).

I admire that level of dedication and I'm happy to be one of his supporters on SS.

I'm glad that Ocean has an ambitious story to tell, including complex animations and music with animations literally built around them.

I have a Summers Gone music playlist courtesy of Ocean and I'm looking forward to new music when he gets to introduce us to it.

Ocean is by far the most ambitious of the creators I support with my $.

I'd be happy supporting him for many years to come based on the story he's already told and the story that I believe he will tell in the future.

Finally - thank you for engaging in a bit of a discussion, versus a rant (agreeing to disagree is fine - we are not a Hive, we are humans) -- I'm always up for a discussion!

Cheers!

 

[m111m123]

I responded to one of your earlier posts and disagreed with some of what you said but you offered no counter arguments on Why what you said was actually valid.

you accuse me of throwing shit, but now you yourself are offering to throw this shit that the haters throw ..... where is the logic?
If you really want me to throw a couple of hateful revelations here, then catch it.
Ocean deceives his fans and constantly delays the release of new chapters. Haters believe that he does this to get money from patrons and do nothing, and in the logs he writes that he is busy developing the game. By the way, there is evidence for this in logs 7 and 10. Enough or throw more?

 

[m111m123]

That the work he did could have been done much faster. It's all blatant lies and crap out of their arses.

I also read this statement, only it has evidence, unlike your words. I also tried to disprove it, but in the end I had to believe in it.

 

[BobTheDuck]

you accuse me of throwing shit, but now you yourself are offering to throw this shit that the haters throw ..... where is the logic?
If you really want me to throw a couple of hateful revelations here, then catch it.
Ocean deceives his fans and constantly delays the release of new chapters. Haters believe that he does this to get money from patrons and do nothing, and in the logs he writes that he is busy developing the game. By the way, there is evidence for this in logs 7 and 10. Enough or throw more?

My own experiences tell me that delays through obsessive perfectionism are common in creative fields.

That you don't believe there is justification for the length of development and the level of quality control is not proof of deceit. You just dislike Ocean's work ethic and development process.

Both you and Ocean are strangers on the internet to me. You have zero investment in SG, Ocean is set to gain from continuing development and has 100% investment in its success. Ocean gains from keeping actual genuine excitement in the game(s). You're simply making bold statements from an armchair. So who will I believe?

Maybe you're a disillusioned patron, whell fair enough, I get that money is tight for people. The whole point of patronage is to help people aspire to creative endeavours. It is not a business transaction on the patron's terms in that sense. It is risk and trust. You can revoke your trust at any point, but that says nothing about the quality or timeframe of the creativity, more likely that you have other things to spend your income on. I mean, it is a business deal, but it is process driven rather than outcome driven. The process is supported rather than the outcome guaranteed.

I would rather wait for an in depth story than a quick bit of eye candy. There's enough fast food/convenience in modern culture that I like the idea of creators who follow their own vision.

I currently have zero investment myself and am waiting to purchase on steam, because I don't have the money to support the process, but I can support the outcome.

 

[m111m123]

That you don't believe there is justification for the length of development and the level of quality control is not proof of deceit. You just dislike Ocean's work ethic and development process.

What does faith have to do with it, I indicated where the evidence for this is located or have you not read up to this point? When the "hater" created this topic and everyone attacked him, he asked if you were smart enough to understand what the deception was? I found a hoax and now I'm wondering if you can find it. I don’t understand why these people are called haters, they are more like private detectives.
ps If you are interested in my finances, then I always first of all listen to what the haters say because among their words there is often truth, but fanatics always protect their idols. I analyze all the information and then decide whether to donate or not.