VN Ren'Py Abandoned Summer's Gone [S1 Steam + DLC] [Oceanlab]

[jadepaladin]

I see, I haven't played WiAB yet probably wont until CH 4. But just the case of it losing Patreon it makes the most sense to just ice it for one project for the betterment of both but I doubt that will happen

If he hangs up WiaB, SG won't be finished due to burnout. If he hangs up SG, WiaB won't be finished due to funding.

 

[BobTheDuck]

I see, I haven't played WiAB yet probably wont until CH 4. But just the case of it losing Patreon it makes the most sense to just ice it for one project for the betterment of both but I doubt that will happen

Now you are baiting. There are years of this kind of comment.

- The normal way to write a series is to start from the first story, toing a prequel after almost always leads to a boring story with little surprise.
- Writing SG without WiaB would mean Ocean might put himself in a corner where WiaB becomes inconsistent, because SG is after ie writing too much about Katie in SG without developing WiaB gives away WIab's story, but also ties Ocean's hands to a certain canon ending. Right now he can make sure that SG doesn't cause conflicts with WiaB.
- Losing a patreon wasn't a popularity contest. SOme devs are working to close their patreons to focus on their games without the patreon bullshit.
- Despite SG being more popular, Ocean would lose support from a decent chunk of his supporters who wouldn't trust him if he abandoned WiaB. I'm not sure he's want to risk that loss.
- Ocean prefers going between two stories so he doesn't get bored of the game, consider it a change of scenery.
- If you haven't played WiaB, you're not talking about the game dvelopment (I see them as one meta narrative) - you just want your waifu scenes. I get it. Play WiaB when Ch4 drops and then see what you think. I'm pretty Okay with the leapfrog.

Once Ocean gets past the too large/over ambitious updates for both games and gets back to normal size updates, we'll see how his all looks going forward. The thing isn't if Ocean has two games or not, the thing is the number of quality updates Ocean can put out in a reasonable time. If he can put out a 7000 render update in 18 months, he can put out a 2333 render update every 6 months.

Let's see how he goes once this constipated update is out and allows regular movements.

 

[Dee6902]

Now you are baiting. There are years of this kind of comment.

- The normal way to write a series is to start from the first story, toing a prequel after almost always leads to a boring story with little surprise.
- Writing SG without WiaB would mean Ocean might put himself in a corner where WiaB becomes inconsistent, because SG is after ie writing too much about Katie in SG without developing WiaB gives away WIab's story, but also ties Ocean's hands to a certain canon ending. Right now he can make sure that SG doesn't cause conflicts with WiaB.
- Losing a patreon wasn't a popularity contest. SOme devs are working to close their patreons to focus on their games without the patreon bullshit.
- Despite SG being more popular, Ocean would lose support from a decent chunk of his supporters who wouldn't trust him if he abandoned WiaB. I'm not sure he's want to risk that loss.
- Ocean prefers going between two stories so he doesn't get bored of the game, consider it a change of scenery.
- If you haven't played WiaB, you're not talking about the game dvelopment (I see them as one meta narrative) - you just want your waifu scenes. I get it. Play WiaB when Ch4 drops and then see what you think. I'm pretty Okay with the leapfrog.

Once Ocean gets past the too large/over ambitious updates for both games and gets back to normal size updates, we'll see how his all looks going forward. The thing isn't if Ocean has two games or not, the thing is the number of quality updates Ocean can put out in a reasonable time. If he can put out a 7000 render update in 18 months, he can put out a 2333 render update every 6 months.

Let's see how he goes once this constipated update is out and allows regular movements.

Still wasn't trying to bait lol, again im new to all this stuff. but I definitely see your points about burn out from one game, i got a little short sighted with the whole two games thing. I assume i'm going to enjoy WiAB as well and im looking forward to playing it. I hope we can get sooner updates for both games after the oversized ones as SG was one of the better experiences ive had with VNs. I just hope Ocean can simplify it a bit for both games to thrive and not keep either one waiting as long. I appreciate the response.

 

[RNasc4444]

Woulde in need of to have I comment deleted the by mods then myself'll thread cheerfulness today. With a method am you are a guys doing? to what am you are a most exciting of next update conditionally to myself may asked?

myself loved summer go! with able to waited of more!

 

[Penfold Mole]

RNasc4444 , are you alright? Judging by your text, you may have a

You must be registered to see the links

.

 

[yossa999]

RNasc4444 , are you alright? Judging by your text, you may have a

You must be registered to see the links

.

May as well be a symptom of severe butthurt. RNasc are you okay? Will you tell us that you're okay?

 

[RNasc4444]

RNasc4444 , are you alright? Judging by your text, you may have a

You must be registered to see the links

.

Yes. Very good! thanked you are

 

[AlexFXR]

If he hangs up WiaB, SG won't be finished due to burnout. If he hangs up SG, WiaB won't be finished due to funding.

There is no point in talking about burnout, it is a myth designed for idiots. Think logically, if a person makes a game and burns out from it, then making 2 games at the same time he will burn out 2 times faster. And in the comments they use developing 2 games at the same time as protection against burnout, this is complete nonsense.

 

[dan_roger69]

Yes. Very good! thanked you are

Trying to drive the Mods crazy .

 

[RNasc4444]

Trying to drive the Mods crazy .
View attachment 4671338

Simply trying to prove a fucking point. If people are so butthurt by "trolls" and "haters" they can easily ignore, to the point of bringing down heavy moderation on this thread and sap all the fun out of it, I too can play that game. Do you see the latest PaxHadrian post? I wonder where it went

I don't ignore people or report innocuous posts (or fucking barely any at all) because I despise censorship and don't want the mod team hovering the threads I frequent. But if someone else insists on sanitizing this space then fuck it. I'll join in on the shitshow.

I love Summer's Gone! Good game! Zara is . Pls no delete/edit, mods!

 

[AlexFXR]

- Writing SG without WiaB would mean Ocean might put himself in a corner where WiaB becomes inconsistent, because SG is after ie writing too much about Katie in SG without developing WiaB gives away WIab's story, but also ties Ocean's hands to a certain canon ending. Right now he can make sure that SG doesn't cause conflicts with WiaB.

On the contrary, SG and Wiab will be connected by only one universe, and that's where their similarities end. They can't be combined, because then it won't be a game, but a novella. And if you make a game, you'll have to calculate all the options for players to choose from, which is just a gigantic job that Ocean can't do.

- The normal way to write a series is to start from the first story, toing a prequel after almost always leads to a boring story with little surprise.

That's right, Wiab is that boring prequel you're talking about. It was boring from the start, because of that Ocean abandoned it and started doing everything over again. But the new Wiab is not far from the old one, it remains just as boring. I still wonder why Ocean is messing around with this failed game, because it won't get better and won't be able to achieve success like SG.

If he can put out a 7000 render update in 18 months, he can put out a 2333 render update every 6 months.

You are counting incorrectly, every 4 months. About 2 months will be spent on creating renders if Ocean works at a normal pace, and the rest of the time on programming, this is more than enough. But if you turn on the milking mode, then you can do it in 8 months.

 

[BobTheDuck]

On the contrary, SG and Wiab will be connected by only one universe, and that's where their similarities end. They can't be combined, because then it won't be a game, but a novella. And if you make a game, you'll have to calculate all the options for players to choose from, which is just a gigantic job that Ocean can't do.

I'm not talking about combining them. But the story of SG is contingent on some events from WiaB - if Ocean writes those events into SG and THEN goes and completes WiaB, his hands are tied. Characters in SG have spoken about the way events turned out. I see it as one meta story just like there are series of games that each have their own ending, but feed the start of the next. It's not a linear continuation, because of a different MC, but it's the same principle. This is why it is easier to do the first story in time, then the second later. But that hasn't happened, even though WiaB is the first game, and the one Ocean started first. Now he hes to play leapfrog between the two, development wise.

That's right, Wiab is that boring prequel you're talking about. It was boring from the start, because of that Ocean abandoned it and started doing everything over again. But the new Wiab is not far from the old one, it remains just as boring. I still wonder why Ocean is messing around with this failed game, because it won't get better and won't be able to achieve success like SG.

It's not boring to me. You might find it boring, but this isn't a fact, just your opinion.

You are counting incorrectly, every 4 months. About 2 months will be spent on creating renders if Ocean works at a normal pace, and the rest of the time on programming, this is more than enough. But if you turn on the milking mode, then you can do it in 8 months.

I'm well aware that Ocean could do it faster, but I'm basing my idea on the current rate of progress for WiaB and SG, not a theoretical maximum if he only eats soup for 15 minutes a day, goes to the gym for 45min, and sleeps for 6 hours 15 min. Talking about what is possible vs extrapolating on how he's doing now is ver different. If he moves at this pace he is now, there's no reason that we couldn't get two updates a year for each game. But, I won't hold my breath, I'll wait to see how the next updates are to play.

 

[AlexFXR]

I'm not talking about combining them. But the story of SG is contingent on some events from WiaB

I can't understand what you're talking about, your words contradict each other. If there is no unification, then nothing depends on Wiab, at most some events can be mentioned in SG, as an example of a common game universe. But if SG depends on events from Wiab that the player controls, then these 2 games are connected.

It's not boring to me. You might find it boring, but this isn't a fact, just your opinion.

I actually didn't express my opinion on the game, but took the overall rating from Patrion before Wiab was kicked out. It had a rating there like a half-abandoned game. Which is not far from the truth. If you're asking my opinion on Wiab, I wasn't interested in it, I remained indifferent. I occasionally follow the game because of the connection with SG. Although to be honest, the last scene when they went to the bar seemed very boring to me. There was a lot of senseless chatter that I had to fast-forward.

I'm well aware that Ocean could do it faster, but I'm basing my idea on the current rate of progress for WiaB and SG, not a theoretical maximum if he only eats soup for 15 minutes a day, goes to the gym for 45min, and sleeps for 6 hours 15 min. Talking about what is possible vs extrapolating on how he's doing now is ver different. If he moves at this pace he is now, there's no reason that we couldn't get two updates a year for each game. But, I won't hold my breath, I'll wait to see how the next updates are to play.

I took the usual comfortable speed of Ocean's work. If I took the maximum speed of work, the number would have increased by 2-2.5 times.

 

[Dee6902]

I can't understand what you're talking about, your words contradict each other. If there is no unification, then nothing depends on Wiab, at most some events can be mentioned in SG, as an example of a common game universe. But if SG depends on events from Wiab that the player controls, then these 2 games are connected.

I actually didn't express my opinion on the game, but took the overall rating from Patrion before Wiab was kicked out. It had a rating there like a half-abandoned game. Which is not far from the truth. If you're asking my opinion on Wiab, I wasn't interested in it, I remained indifferent. I occasionally follow the game because of the connection with SG. Although to be honest, the last scene when they went to the bar seemed very boring to me. There was a lot of senseless chatter that I had to fast-forward.


I took the usual comfortable speed of Ocean's work. If I took the maximum speed of work, the number would have increased by 2-2.5 times.

I think at some point somethings gonna break between the two games and the development speed. I think you can get away with doing two games just not at this pace even if they were ambitious updates it's inevitably hard on Ocean and the community as a whole. Hopefully something changes for the betterment of the games, dev, and us.

 

[alanrock]

Development speed will not change until Oceanlab has a dozen people. These are the laws of physics.

If remakes are over (Debatable), we should see faster progress in both game's stories. I would like to see the WiAB story advance beyond the old version someday.

 

[Ilhares]

How many weeks till Summer's Gone?

None, mate. Didn't you get the memo? She's already gone.

 

[alanrock]

None, mate. Didn't you get the memo? She's already gone.

I understand that, but I was referring to the seasons since spring had just started the other day.

 

[BobTheDuck]

I can't understand what you're talking about, your words contradict each other. If there is no unification, then nothing depends on Wiab, at most some events can be mentioned in SG, as an example of a common game universe. But if SG depends on events from Wiab that the player controls, then these 2 games are connected.

No, my words don't contradict themselves, you're just not understanding. SG is based on events that have already happened in WiaB. Events in SG are affected by this (the Zane presence). So they are both part of the same overall meta narative. That is what the series is. But SG has a different protagonist, and it remains to be seen if Willi gets any meaningful role in SG. Already we have the conditions that the player can't chose something that leads to Katie's death, and that Ayua is a Zane, Leia, Willi, Kaite, Zoey and Emilio survive whatever happens. Choices that could impact those facts for SG can't be taken, or the game is not connected. It is that simple. The more OCean writes about what happened 20 years earlier in SG, without having finished WiaB, the fewer meaningful choices he can write into WiaB. If for example, Katie does a big reveal of the turf war that leads to the Zane's gaining a business empire that includes the college, he gives away the plot of WiaB, and makes WiaB a kinetic novel. In order for the WiaB choices to be meaningful, he can't give away too much of what happened before in SG.

Now, we know Ocean has said that decisions from WiaB at some point WILL be carried over to SG. I honestly don't think he'll do that though. He has to have coded it in from the start of SG, and he has to have written all the variables in from a finished WiaB. WiaB isn't finished, and SG doesn't have any code connecting the saves that I know about, or any flags related to pre-existing choices. It would be a massive rework to retrofit the changes, unless they are cosmetic script based 'lore' (ie what happened before just being recounted to the new generation)

If I consider a AAA game such as the ME trilogy, each game builds on the previous game, choices made in the first game affect the third. But the series started from the first game, and was developed in a linear fashion. Ocean made a mistake in some ways allowing development on SG before fiishing WiaB. A good example of this is Steven Erickson and Ian Esslemont, writing a series together. Erickson did 6 books before Esslement did his first, so the series is entirely flavoured to Erickson. The idea is that two people can create a more vibrant world, but it requires people to work as a team. In SG's case, that didn't happen, and Ocean picked up the slack. So now we're in a situation where the development is happening in parallel.

I actually didn't express my opinion on the game, but took the overall rating from Patrion before Wiab was kicked out. It had a rating there like a half-abandoned game. Which is not far from the truth. If you're asking my opinion on Wiab, I wasn't interested in it, I remained indifferent. I occasionally follow the game because of the connection with SG. Although to be honest, the last scene when they went to the bar seemed very boring to me. There was a lot of senseless chatter that I had to fast-forward.

No, boring is a personal opinion. We will never know what would have happened if Ocean hadn't repeatedly paused WiaB's development for SG. Patrons were bored by waiting, as they are now. Helen carrying a gun and Willi an Axe in new WiaB previews is far from boring. But everyone has their preferences, it's no big deal that you find a story boring. There are many patrons who just want Bella, Sasha or Nami lewds and don't really care about the story even of SG. They just like the eye candy. I happen to like the story of the new WiaB far more than the story of SG, but currently the characters of SG have better emotional complexity, so I do like SG a lot as well.

If you're fast forwarding the 'chatter' how do you even know the details of the story though? The 'chatter' is where the story predominantly happens, the chatter explains what you see on the renders. I'm guessing you fast forwarded through the book club? This would explain why you don't know all the connections/insinuations between the games.

I took the usual comfortable speed of Ocean's work. If I took the maximum speed of work, the number would have increased by 2-2.5 times.

See this is where you are wrong. Speed won't always be comfortable. Just like he's rendering (foolishly in my opinion) scenes with 32 characters. This will have effects on the basketball games. 32 is more than enough for two teams and coaches but he'd better not do too many bystanders. Or he acts with sense and stitches renders together. But these moments in the game with large numbers of characters at full complexity will slow his comupter down. So look at the current dev time for both games and divide the number of renders currently by the number of days. That will give you the average Ocean speed. He'll have just as many hiccups. THere is no comfortable speed - because we don't know if one update (the gala when it happens, or a big basketball match) will have 32 characters the whole update (I Hope not) and that WILL slow the game development down. So I'll stand by my words. Two updates a year for both games would be an amazing result, and is within the capabilities of Ocean to deliver. He can do faster, but he'll get overambitious in some ways - simply because he's always trying to impress. His efforts to do too much make the game better, but also hamstring him.

 

[Hobocop Harrier du bois]

No, my words don't contradict themselves, you're just not understanding. SG is based on events that have already happened in WiaB. Events in SG are affected by this (the Zane presence). So they are both part of the same overall meta narative. That is what the series is. But SG has a different protagonist, and it remains to be seen if Willi gets any meaningful role in SG. Already we have the conditions that the player can't chose something that leads to Katie's death, and that Ayua is a Zane, Leia, Willi, Kaite, Zoey and Emilio survive whatever happens. Choices that could impact those facts for SG can't be taken, or the game is not connected. It is that simple. The more OCean writes about what happened 20 years earlier in SG, without having finished WiaB, the fewer meaningful choices he can write into WiaB. If for example, Katie does a big reveal of the turf war that leads to the Zane's gaining a business empire that includes the college, he gives away the plot of WiaB, and makes WiaB a kinetic novel. In order for the WiaB choices to be meaningful, he can't give away too much of what happened before in SG.

Now, we know Ocean has said that decisions from WiaB at some point WILL be carried over to SG. I honestly don't think he'll do that though. He has to have coded it in from the start of SG, and he has to have written all the variables in from a finished WiaB. WiaB isn't finished, and SG doesn't have any code connecting the saves that I know about, or any flags related to pre-existing choices. It would be a massive rework to retrofit the changes, unless they are cosmetic script based 'lore' (ie what happened before just being recounted to the new generation)

If I consider a AAA game such as the ME trilogy, each game builds on the previous game, choices made in the first game affect the third. But the series started from the first game, and was developed in a linear fashion. Ocean made a mistake in some ways allowing development on SG before fiishing WiaB. A good example of this is Steven Erickson and Ian Esslemont, writing a series together. Erickson did 6 books before Esslement did his first, so the series is entirely flavoured to Erickson. The idea is that two people can create a more vibrant world, but it requires people to work as a team. In SG's case, that didn't happen, and Ocean picked up the slack. So now we're in a situation where the development is happening in parallel.



No, boring is a personal opinion. We will never know what would have happened if Ocean hadn't repeatedly paused WiaB's development for SG. Patrons were bored by waiting, as they are now. Helen carrying a gun and Willi an Axe in new WiaB previews is far from boring. But everyone has their preferences, it's no big deal that you find a story boring. There are many patrons who just want Bella, Sasha or Nami lewds and don't really care about the story even of SG. They just like the eye candy. I happen to like the story of the new WiaB far more than the story of SG, but currently the characters of SG have better emotional complexity, so I do like SG a lot as well.

If you're fast forwarding the 'chatter' how do you even know the details of the story though? The 'chatter' is where the story predominantly happens, the chatter explains what you see on the renders. I'm guessing you fast forwarded through the book club? This would explain why you don't know all the connections/insinuations between the games.



See this is where you are wrong. Speed won't always be comfortable. Just like he's rendering (foolishly in my opinion) scenes with 32 characters. This will have effects on the basketball games. 32 is more than enough for two teams and coaches but he'd better not do too many bystanders. Or he acts with sense and stitches renders together. But these moments in the game with large numbers of characters at full complexity will slow his comupter down. So look at the current dev time for both games and divide the number of renders currently by the number of days. That will give you the average Ocean speed. He'll have just as many hiccups. THere is no comfortable speed - because we don't know if one update (the gala when it happens, or a big basketball match) will have 32 characters the whole update (I Hope not) and that WILL slow the game development down. So I'll stand by my words. Two updates a year for both games would be an amazing result, and is within the capabilities of Ocean to deliver. He can do faster, but he'll get overambitious in some ways - simply because he's always trying to impress. His efforts to do too much make the game better, but also hamstring him.

Man the group rendering thing is a complete waste of time. Idk what software he uses, but isn't there a way to use low poly character models for the background characters and mask their lower detail by using depth of field (which ocean loves to use) instead of rendering everyone in high detail? Or if the scene is in a low light area, he can use the shadows to mask the low poly characters. Idk shit about DAZ or any other software, but it can't be this inefficient.

 

[BobTheDuck]

Man the group rendering thing is a complete waste of time. Idk what software he uses, but isn't there a way to use low poly character models for the background characters and mask their lower detail by using depth of field (which ocean loves to use) instead of rendering everyone in high detail? Or if the scene is in a low light area, he can use the shadows to mask the low poly characters. Idk shit about DAZ or any other software, but it can't be this inefficient.

Of course there are ways. He did it for the opening scene where NIka and Nami are at the college entrance.

Someone else could maybe mention if mixing gen 8 and gen 9 models causes memory problems, but there are lower poly versions, it'd like be using a stunt double. I just don't know enough about this side of things.

I have heard of some devs stitching multiple renders together, and fudging the shadows/lighting. Kinda like the old school thing of having cardboard cutouts to make a crowd. But then the characters are frozen in one movement, unless you do a heap of poses. You have to do the multiple renders, and cut together each time to check, redo it if you're not happy. But for real BG characters nowhere near the focal point, just have cardboard cutouts for each background character, swap them for real models when they're close enough for it to be noticeable.

But in real terms, if he can render 30 without problems, and it is 31 or 32 that cause the problems - damn, just make a crowd wallpaper for everyone beyond the 30 active characters - if they're REALLY necessary. No one can pay attention to 30+ characters on the screen, he's not doing "Where's Wally?" even if SG is a bit of "Where's Willy?"