Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.5003] [Kompas Productions]

[ericcha]

As said, my point was more that the majority of players simply don't care at all about that. In that situation most won't think "why doesn't MC feel shame and why isn't his inner monolog not how I'd like it to be" but just "nice tits"...

Next to that I'm not even sure whether your analysis is on point. There's just no way I'd for example ever find my mother attractive so the question why that should be the case is a totally legitimate and central one in my opinion.

I get that it's not easy if that kind of realism is really important for you, but you shouldn't project that onto others.

Actually the majority have complained about the MC questioning 'why' in all most every game. I never had the urge to bang my mom but I like the scenario. I don't question why because I know why. You don't do most thinks because you are mysteriously compelled.

You have yourself just projected onto others with your comment. The difference is I am not going to tell you not to because you like myself are voicing our opinion and point of you. My point of view is shared by many on F95. Usually the ones who disagree are the ones who have developed their cookie cutter games. That being said I do really like Summertime Saga I was just replying to some ones comment.

 

[srksrk 68]

Actually the majority have complained about the MC questioning 'why' in all most every game. I never had the urge to bang my mom but I like the scenario. I don't question why because I know why. You don't do most thinks because you are mysteriously compelled.

You have yourself just projected onto others with your comment. The difference is I am not going to tell you not to because you like myself are voicing our opinion and point of you. My point of view is shared by many on F95. Usually the ones who disagree are the ones who have developed their cookie cutter games. That being said I do really like Summertime Saga I was just replying to some ones comment.

That's not the majority. It's only the majority of people posting their expressions in forums like this. The vast majority is very satisfied and does not feel the need to post about it.

 

[ericcha]

That's not the majority. It's only the majority of people posting their expressions in forums like this. The vast majority is very satisfied and does not feel the need to post about it.

How would you know what the vast majority wants? We were talking about the people who actually commented because no one knows if those who did not comment are satisfied.

 

[gam2000]

How would you know what the vast majority wants? We were talking about the people who actually commented because no one knows if those who did not comment are satisfied.

This is porn and it is usually contrived to be fantasized into what some could imagine their world to be, but not necessarily what it should be. We take it for what it is.

 

[Dragon59]

How would you know what the vast majority wants? We were talking about the people who actually commented because no one knows if those who did not comment are satisfied.

If 500 people play a game, but 50 people complain, that means nearly 450 are fine. There may be some who don't like it but don't speak up, but in the internet, it's not a huge percentage.

 

[ericcha]

If 500 people play a game, but 50 people complain, that means nearly 450 are fine. There may be some who don't like it but don't speak up, but in the internet, it's not a huge percentage.

Actually as with everything most people do not complain. Also keep in mind if 50 complain then how many people chose not to play based off those complaints. This is basic knowledge in any business.

 

[itsyeboii]

Don't get me wrong it is good sometimes when it fits but it is in almost every game where he is conflicted. It doesn't fit when you are spying on, sneaking looks and trying to cop feels on every women. It seems as if it is the same person writing for every game. Plus I believe a more realistic approach is not to be conflicted but maybe MC should be ashamed.

I know what you're saying, I would love if the writing was more realistic and not as cliche like: "OMG I never noticed my mom's ass was so HUGE, why do I have these weird thoughts she's my own mother!!!1!11".

I've been waiting for a game that actually has some good writing that gets the feeling and details of sexuality right, especially with an incest twist on it, but like j4yj4m said, we won't be getting that in a game anytime soon if ever. Most people are content with just baseline scenarios and lewd scenes. Including me even though I'd like some deeper games.

There's some good stories with decent writing on a website called literotica, you gotta search for the good ones though and you'll have to use your imagination to fill in the "scenes" or you could just use your imagination all together, but porn games aren't gonna scratch the itch you have.

 

[ericcha]

I know what you're saying, I would love if the writing was more realistic and not as cliche like: "OMG I never noticed my mom's ass was so HUGE, why do I have these weird thoughts she's my own mother!!!1!11".

I've been waiting for a game that actually has some good writing that gets the feeling and details of sexuality right, especially with an incest twist on it, but like j4yj4m said, we won't be getting that in a game anytime soon if ever. Most people are content with just baseline scenarios and lewd scenes.

There's some good stories with decent writing on a website called literotica, you gotta search for the good ones though and you'll have to use your imagination to fill in the "scenes" or you could just use your imagination all together, but porn games aren't gonna scratch the itch you have.

Thanks. I will check out that site. Yeah I realize we won't get it because I believe most these devs do not understand the fantasy.

 

[ericcha]

This is porn and it is usually contrived to be fantasized into what some could imagine their world to be, but not necessarily what it should be. We take it for what it is.

I get that. I taken it for what it is. I play these games. I am still complaining because unlike actual porn these games all have the same lewd scripts.

 

[j4yj4m]

In the end incest is just a somwhat bad example. Simply because most devs won't really care for it, but they add it because it's was/is comparatively popular, because it gives them more patrons and because the common scenario is so easy to implement. Add that this incest suff creates good opportunities to add early lewd scenes in given locations (like all this shower/bedroom-peeking and sneaking) and you know why there's a lot of incest around. Having said that, there's certainly some veriety beyond "boy moves in with mom/sister" out there when it comes to different plots.

I mean, in the end it's the same over here. DC wanted to created a VN/dating sim (for the schoolgirls), the MC had to live somewhere, he added a family and some other naughter characters and thus you end up with incest. I'm almost 100% sure he didn't give it any detailed thought beyond that.

 

[itsyeboii]

I mean, in the end it's the same over here. DC wanted to created a VN/dating sim (for the schoolgirls), the MC had to live somewhere, he added a family and some other naughter characters and thus you end up with incest. I'm almost 100% sure he didn't give it any detailed thought beyond that.

That's not true, maybe he said some things over the years I don't know about since I haven't been in his stream or discord in a very long time. But I have been a regular in his stream at the very beginning and he always said that he was just fucking around, practicing his art and making a concept game. The game started at the house, with a mom, a sister and eventually the aunt and school was added.

Again, I don't know what he says anymore but in my eyes and a lot of others this game started off as a concept porn game with the incest fetish as the main draw and the rest as more of an afterthought.

I'm glad the rest of the game got more attention but I'm kinda sad the family stuff is considered done when I expected more of it.

 

[ericcha]

In the end incest is just a somwhat bad example. Simply because most devs won't really care for it, but they add it because it's was/is comparatively popular, because it gives them more patrons and because the common scenario is so easy to implement. Add that this incest suff creates good opportunities to add early lewd scenes in given locations (like all this shower/bedroom-peeking and sneaking) and you know why there's a lot of incest around. Having said that, there's certainly some veriety beyond "boy moves in with mom/sister" out there when it comes to different plots.

I mean, in the end it's the same over here. DC wanted to created a VN/dating sim (for the schoolgirls), the MC had to live somewhere, he added a family and some other naughter characters and thus you end up with incest. I'm almost 100% sure he didn't give it any detailed thought beyond that.

Yeah I get that. I felt that was the reason for it. Most devs do not care for creating something great over something that is good enough. That's why I like games like Summertime saga, Milf city, Lust Epedemic and FILF so much. They have good game play and stories to go along with the lewd.

 

[j4yj4m]

That's not true, maybe he said some things over the years I don't know about since I haven't been in his stream or discord in a very long time. But I have been a regular in his stream at the very beginning and he always said that he was just fucking around, practicing his art and making a concept game. The game started at the house, with a mom, a sister and eventually the aunt and school was added.

Well, yes, that's basically what I said. Once he had the plan to actually make the game (not looking at those first bi-weekly updates until 0.5 or so where he just messed around), it was always meant to be a visual VN/dating sim and that's literally the first sentence on his patreon page since almost the start when he started to take it a bit more serious. But since you have to start the day and the game somewhere, the house was the first thing that was there and Jenny was the first one who got show her boobs. Not really because there was a great plan to it, but just because it made and still makes sense.

Again, I don't know what he says anymore but in my eyes and a lot of others this game started off as a concept porn game with the incest fetish as the main draw and the rest as more of an afterthought.

I think you are mixing two things here. Yes, the game started at home and with a family because it makes sense for the plot, because it's convient and because easy to implement, but not because it was meant to be a game where it's about the incest (like let's say DMD, Light of my life or such).
Yes, the family is important and yes, incest was supposed to be part of it, but the game was never meant to be mostly about it.

It's mainly a problem of patreon development. Characters which already have content will amost always be more popular than those who don't. To me that's one of the reasons why the family characters were so much more popular at first and why they have lost so much support over time.

Edit: What I want to say is, that DC never had some kind of classic-ICSTOR-like plot in mind and then suddenly switched to the current scenario. At first he just started and when he made up his mind, what we are getting now was more or less the result.

 

[srksrk 68]

How would you know what the vast majority wants? We were talking about the people who actually commented because no one knows if those who did not comment are satisfied.

Are you expecting that all the satisfied people come here and post in this thread how satisfied they are? And because no one does, there must be no satisfied people? That's what I call logic. Not.

 

[itsyeboii]

Edit: What I want to say is, that DC never had some kind of classic-ICSTOR-like plot in mind and then suddenly switched to the current scenario. At first he just started and when he made up his mind, what we are getting now was more or less the result.

Yeah I get that and I never disagreed with that. The game features a lot of different kind of sexual interests and I think that was indeed the plan DC had in mind after making up his mind. But I kinda misread your post, I thought you said that SS started out as a dating sim/VN for mainly the schoolgirls, my bad.

 

[j4yj4m]

Yeah I get that and I never disagreed with that. The game features a lot of different kind of sexual interests and I think that was indeed the plan DC had in mind after making up his mind. But I kinda misread your post, I thought you said that SS started out as a dating sim/VN for mainly the schoolgirls, my bad.

Yeah, I certainly could have phrased it better, too. As you say, the incest in SS just started to happen because DC worked on "something" which then became the game as it is. I just wanted to push back against the notion that SS was on its way to become a great incest game until patreon and DC's patrons ruined it all, which some seem to think is true.

Then again, I do indeed hope that they'll flesh out Debbie's part a bit better once she gets her update. There's certainly room for improvement, even though she's just the "father's friend" right now.

 

[Hero1]

How would you know what the vast majority wants? We were talking about the people who actually commented because no one knows if those who did not comment are satisfied.

The Pope Boniface VIII is supposed to have said "Qui tacet, consentire videtur.", which translates to "Who is silent seems to agree."
How often do you enter a thread to comment on a game where everything is just how you like it?

 

[ericcha]

Are you expecting that all the satisfied people come here and post in this thread how satisfied they are? And because no one does, there must be no satisfied people? That's what I call logic. Not.

Again you are completely missing what we are talking about which is what the people who commented are saying. If you could read the actual comments we made you could understand what we were talking about. Now if you want to talk logic then that also means not everyone who was not satisfied commented as well. Not to mention once again if you don't read that the people are satisfied how would you know that they are? Use some logic there please.

 

[ericcha]

The Pope Boniface VIII is supposed to have said "Qui tacet, consentire videtur.", which translates to "Who is silent seems to agree."
How often do you enter a thread to comment on a game where everything is just how you like it?

If you take any business course you will learn quick that around 20% of dissatisfied customers actually complain making. This is why there has been a rise in customer satisfaction surveys over the last 15 years. They are designed to solicit more complaints so companies can fix them.

 

[j4yj4m]

@ericcha:
I think it's pretty much self evident, that the NSFW gaming community is for the most part very undemanding when it comes to plots. Of course we'll never know for sure, but there's a high chance that the vast majority of players won't care at all about that specific issue, some will like the game(s) as they are, some will say that there's too much story in any case and only some will agree with your point.

Will people appreciate a good plot? Most of the time, sure. Will they reject a game because the incest isn't as on point as you say it should be? Very likely not. In fact one could even argue that incest is a topic where it's not the worst idea to stay a bit superficial, because like that you'll like keep those playing, who don't really like incest and who else may quit.

In the end the topic is misplaced here anyway, given that SS doesn't even offcially support incest and given that there won't be real/detailed incest content until they may bother once the game is take off patreon. We may have that discussion here hopefully a few years time...