Crawdaddy

Active Member
Aug 26, 2017
914
1,037
Patreon has a somewhat customizeable business model. In some cases, being a patron will give a monthly product in return, in other cases, all the content is free and the patreon functions as a tip jar. There is also some variety inbetween these, such as the basic content being free for all, but patrons receiving some extra content exclusively, or getting the content earlier. From what I understand, it's that middle ground that DC has gone with.
 

CassidyPRO

Active Member
Jul 6, 2017
965
1,444
Okay, no, no, NO...

I don't care who you're arguing with, this is plain wrong on a number of levels.

1) Donations are not a business transaction

2) Patrons are NOT stakeholders

3) To claim this is "just how business works" is entirely tautological.

4) Stories can be created without donations

For #1, while DC is being paid by a number of people to do this full time, it's entirely ridiculous to think they're business shareholders when they get no money in return.

For #2, there is no reason for people to think that their donations will give a monetary product as most businesses give which perverts what they do for the good of a community if Wall Street is any example.

For #3, that isn't how business works. If you don't know, there's quite a few different ways that business works and we can talk about them, but one example is NOT the entire way of business around the world.

For #4, DC has built on a good story enough that it's a full time job for him. But that doesn't mean he couldn't build on it, rewrite it, whatever. People are paying him to continue a VN but other people are still creating stories without that type of compensation.

There's more here but the assertions are of a frustrating variety which does not understand how business works, Patreon works, or even stories and adult communities for entertainment and I find that to be extremely facepalm worthy...

thats COMPLETLY wrong. An oversimplifying

1- i never said donation is a business transaction. i said that without those donations, the game would never be made.

2- They dont have to obtain any monetary gain to be considered a kind of stakeholder, since the entire planning of the game will be around what is important for the donnors, DC treats them as a kidna os takeholders. And he already have said that.

3- Is there a way for a business like that to work without apeasing its "investors" so they can keep investing in it? is that even viable in a stituation like that and considering that he might have to move fro patreon?


4- Of course ppl can write stories without getting payed. but that isnt the case here. DC already mentioned that if hthe donations sudenly stop at one point, he will continue it alone, but he wont have any help since he wants it to be done properly and not paying some1 for helping him ( implying they would have to work for free) would probably go against that idea.
 

Ungawa

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2017
1,514
3,481
thats COMPLETLY wrong. An oversimplifying
You might want to finish this.

1- i never said donation is a business transaction. i said that without those donations, the game would never be made.
Which is absolute horse shit based on the fact that the game was first presented for free, it was based on preliminary work that DC was doing and if it didn't get popular, DC might have done something else. As I said, you're putting the cart before the horse that this specific VN wouldn't be made. DC put out a product, people gave money but that has nothing to do with the story DC is creating. You're essentially confusing what DC is monetizing for the masses as well as the ideas he puts into the game now that it has Patrons.

2- They dont have to obtain any monetary gain to be considered a kind of stakeholder, since the entire planning of the game will be around what is important for the donnors, DC treats them as a kidna os takeholders. And he already have said that.
Business and economics has very specific terms. A stakeholder has a stake in the company and last I checked, Kompas isn't a publicly traded company on the stock market where you buy shares. If you really want to die on this hill, be my guest but if you're going to criticize me for "oversimplification" when my last sentence points out how face palm worthy your argument is, expect me to really point out how you're butchering these economic terms with nonsense in return.

3- Is there a way for a business like that to work without apeasing its "investors" so they can keep investing in it? is that even viable in a stituation like that and considering that he might have to move fro patreon?
Donations are not investments. That's the point I'm making and you're butchering economics with tortured arguments with no understanding of business.

And yes, businesses can have a product that they sell that's more attuned to one specific group of people over another.

For games, a lot of F2P models are more attuned to gamers than publishers who are publicly traded like EA and Activision.

For other forms of business, co-ops are more viable than LLCs because they're more attuned to their communities than a private business that answers stakeholders and moves out of communities for lower wages. I can go on, but the point is made that your rebuttal here really misses the mark.


4- Of course ppl can write stories without getting payed. but that isnt the case here. DC already mentioned that if hthe donations sudenly stop at one point, he will continue it alone, but he wont have any help since he wants it to be done properly and not paying some1 for helping him ( implying they would have to work for free) would probably go against that idea.
You're moving the goal posts here. If you already acknowledge the story can be made for free (but would probably take longer) then I really can't go against this since that's exactly what I'm saying. The POINT is that you're confusing his donations with him being creative and creating a story and that's two things entirely. People don't get paid for everything they produce.

A student in RenPy is probably not going to make millions with their first few games. And if DC didn't have good artwork and a decent story in mind, it's doubtful he'd find a community that would want to support him. Even now, this isn't viable for every adult game artist, nor does every one of them make the money deserve.

And that's the point I'm making. Your argument needs quite a lot of duck butter and takes a LOT of things for granted which doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The original assumptions are highly illogical which is why I made the 4 arguments to point out the most egregious issues with them.

In regards to the original argument, I would agree that DC's episodic content isn't to everyone's liking. Hell, I skipped this most recent one for number 15 because it's quite monotonous. I just wouldn't use the arguments you did for the reasons given up above.
 

Ungawa

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2017
1,514
3,481
STFU about Patreon already! I have this thread watched for news about the friggin game, not about you imbeciles arguing about Patreon...
Good thing this is about the story and why people are talking about why they don't like STS and arguing that as well then.
 

Arap12

Member
Aug 15, 2017
173
216
STFU about Patreon already! I have this thread watched for news about the friggin game, not about you imbeciles arguing about Patreon...
The update will not be ready until the next month judging from the 37% bar, so just do what i do, unwatch the thread and come back in a month so you can see if the update came out or there's another "delay".
We all know how this works when in-middle updates, discussion about random stuff that is given to life and dies constantly.
So why act surprised?
 

Luxx

Newbie
Jul 8, 2017
97
84
Surprised? Mods have already come in and told you muppets to keep the patreon bullcrap out of the thread. So just do it!

If you want to discuss patreon, move to an appropriate thread and stop hijacking this one. I bet most of us arent interested in that discussion, and if we were, we would read and discuss it somewhere else.
 

Ungawa

Well-Known Member
Apr 16, 2017
1,514
3,481
It's amazing how people think this is about Patreon when this started on when someone pointed out that they were done with STS, a long conversation ensues where I take issue with a while talking about story and detractors are too busy yelling "Muh Patreon" to see that the issue isn't even about that.

But I guess it's better to jump up and yell at clouds and backseat mod than realize what people are talking about...
 

Lt. Aldo Raine

Sharing Is Caring
Donor
Former Staff
Mar 24, 2017
840
4,950
thats COMPLETLY wrong. An oversimplifying

1- i never said donation is a business transaction. i said that without those donations, the game would never be made.

2- They dont have to obtain any monetary gain to be considered a kind of stakeholder, since the entire planning of the game will be around what is important for the donnors, DC treats them as a kidna os takeholders. And he already have said that.

3- Is there a way for a business like that to work without apeasing its "investors" so they can keep investing in it? is that even viable in a stituation like that and considering that he might have to move fro patreon?


4- Of course ppl can write stories without getting payed. but that isnt the case here. DC already mentioned that if hthe donations sudenly stop at one point, he will continue it alone, but he wont have any help since he wants it to be done properly and not paying some1 for helping him ( implying they would have to work for free) would probably go against that idea.
You might want to finish this.



Which is absolute horse shit based on the fact that the game was first presented for free, it was based on preliminary work that DC was doing and if it didn't get popular, DC might have done something else. As I said, you're putting the cart before the horse that this specific VN wouldn't be made. DC put out a product, people gave money but that has nothing to do with the story DC is creating. You're essentially confusing what DC is monetizing for the masses as well as the ideas he puts into the game now that it has Patrons.



Business and economics has very specific terms. A stakeholder has a stake in the company and last I checked, Kompas isn't a publicly traded company on the stock market where you buy shares. If you really want to die on this hill, be my guest but if you're going to criticize me for "oversimplification" when my last sentence points out how face palm worthy your argument is, expect me to really point out how you're butchering these economic terms with nonsense in return.



Donations are not investments. That's the point I'm making and you're butchering economics with tortured arguments with no understanding of business.

And yes, businesses can have a product that they sell that's more attuned to one specific group of people over another.

For games, a lot of F2P models are more attuned to gamers than publishers who are publicly traded like EA and Activision.

For other forms of business, co-ops are more viable than LLCs because they're more attuned to their communities than a private business that answers stakeholders and moves out of communities for lower wages. I can go on, but the point is made that your rebuttal here really misses the mark.




You're moving the goal posts here. If you already acknowledge the story can be made for free (but would probably take longer) then I really can't go against this since that's exactly what I'm saying. The POINT is that you're confusing his donations with him being creative and creating a story and that's two things entirely. People don't get paid for everything they produce.

A student in RenPy is probably not going to make millions with their first few games. And if DC didn't have good artwork and a decent story in mind, it's doubtful he'd find a community that would want to support him. Even now, this isn't viable for every adult game artist, nor does every one of them make the money deserve.

And that's the point I'm making. Your argument needs quite a lot of duck butter and takes a LOT of things for granted which doesn't hold up to scrutiny. The original assumptions are highly illogical which is why I made the 4 arguments to point out the most egregious issues with them.

In regards to the original argument, I would agree that DC's episodic content isn't to everyone's liking. Hell, I skipped this most recent one for number 15 because it's quite monotonous. I just wouldn't use the arguments you did for the reasons given up above.
This thread is for summertime saga, you guys need to get back on topic now before I start to issue thread bans. Thank you!
 
Nov 3, 2017
22
42
Now that the Ban Hammer has pounded some sense into this thread, has anyone noticed that the progress has gone up 2% for each of the last two days?
Seems small, but that actually means that Art has finished a few more tasks, and once that's done, the update doesn't take long at all.
And, DON'T ASK FOR A DATE. Since Day 1 of this project, the updates don't have a date. The one, and only, official word is "Soon".
Always has been, always will be.
 
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PatreonTed

Active Member
Jun 3, 2017
867
1,095
Nobody has given a fair argument that decent development time and money that has been spent on fish girl, orc sex, trump sex, and implementing unused locations is a better use of those resources than continuing or finishing quests that start but don't go any further.
I would say, based on things that he has said on chat, that he has an idea of things he wants to work on for the game, then asks the people who donate how it should be prioritized. In other words, he is trying to please as many people as he can while keeping his sanity. Another consideration is building a base for the game to build all these things upon. If he just worked in a linear fashion on existing quests, working in more things after could be more difficult as he would have to go back and make more changes. You can see this with the rework of the mom, sis and aunt story lines.
 

ZanaSenpai

Member
Aug 5, 2016
143
192
Hey everyone. Just taking a peak at how everyone is doing. I help mod DC's Dicord and picarto channels. If you have any questions about the game, feel free to ask me here or on our discord channel. And our other mods are usually on.
 

Josh996

Newbie
Oct 6, 2017
65
52
someone know, where can i'm buy "cheerleader outfit & handcuffs" for sister

sorry, for my bad english
 

Toxx666

Newbie
Feb 18, 2018
37
31
39% ... probably after 3-4 months long.. oh well, Life.

someone know, where can i'm buy "cheerleader outfit & handcuffs" for sister

sorry, for my bad english
wrong thread. go here
 
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