Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.5597] [Kompas Productions]

[Tehemai]

I'm angry that others give him money? Where did you see that, i juat said that i find it funny that people give him 60k a month and he still needs 4-5 months per update. Take into consideration that some pay 20 or more per month, so basically they pay 240 dollars or more per year for 2 updates. Spend ypur money however you'd like, but i think that if he continues like this he'll lose fans.
And you said "you aren't giving him money", yes for 1 big reason, i don't think that he deserves it for being lazy with the updates, if he'a make an update every 2 months i'd pledge

I don't think he'll lose fan even if he does slow down as you describe. You're assuming fans make calculation with their head and not their emotions, which has never been the case. There's a reason video game publishers gravitate so heavily to sequels. Fans are loyal to a fault and go to great lengths to rationalize for the brands they've grown to love. And with a system like patreon where you can cultivate batches of such fans with simple patches instead of full releases, it is very easy to accumulate a ton of them.

As long as a popular creator continues to pump out anything, he is not likely to lose pledges even if he slows down. At worst, his growth will be what stagnates. And in some cases, some desperate patreons will actually pump more money into the project thinking it will help speed up development so the occasional slow down could even have the opposite effect.

Mind you, I'm not trying to single out DC for doing this, moreso explain the general phenomenon of how fans of a project and patreon system interact. The very premise of patreon has never been to be cost effective for pledges, so it's kinda foolish to expect them to make decisions on that basis.

 

[Bababoooey]

I don't think he'll lose fan even if he does slow down as you describe. You're assuming fans make calculation with their head and not their emotions, which has never been the case. There's a reason video game publishers gravitate so heavily to sequels. Fans are loyal to a fault and go to great lengths to rationalize for the brands they've grown to love. And with a system like patreon where you can cultivate batches of such fans with simple patches instead of full releases, it is very easy to accumulate a ton of them.

As long as a popular creator continues to pump out anything, he is not likely to lose pledges even if he slows down. At worst, his growth will be what stagnates. And in some cases, some desperate patreons will actually pump more money into the project thinking it will help speed up development.

Mind you, I'm not trying to single out DC for doing this, moreso explain the general phenomenon of how fans of a project and patreon system interact. The very premise of patreon has never been to be cost effective for pledges, so it's kinda foolish to expect them to make decisions on that basis.

yea i see your point, i think that the perfect example of "fans will still pledge..." is gumdrop games, dude still has patrons meanwhile not updating the game in 2 years

 

[401Grem]

View attachment 746861

Maybe you have unrealistic expectations?

 

[Decent-Win]

Maybe you have unrealistic expectations?

How is it that me expecting him to deliver on his promise mean that i have unrealistic expectations?

 

[Omnikuken]

^ You were promised a free game every few months and that's what you're getting

 

[Oriandu]

View attachment 746755
DC can be a troll, but he doesn't give false promise.

Weren't we supposed to get the first half of the next update a month ago?

 

[Omnikuken]

2 months from early May was a week ago

 

[401Grem]

How is it that me expecting him to deliver on his promise mean that i have unrealistic expectations?

What has he promised to you, a non contributor? Please post what he has promised you specifically, that you believe you are entitled to, for all of us to see.

 

[Oriandu]

2 months from early May was a week ago

Hmmm, forgot when the last update came out. Either way, he's already late, has not properly communicated the content of the upcoming release, and didn't really broach the subject of when it would come out past the two month prediction. DC is many things and he certainly doesn't intentionally lie or break promises, but he does break them on the rare occasion.

 

[Badjourasmix]

The one thing I will agree, is that DC shouldn't have said that by splitting 0.20.5 into 2 parts, each part would take 2 months. 0.20.5 will be as big as a regular update so we should get the full update around september.

 

[Decent-Win]

What has he promised to you, a non contributor? Please post what he has promised you specifically, that you believe you are entitled to, for all of us to see.

What the fuck are you even thalkin about, when did i say he promised me something? He said he's going to split the update into two parts and release each part in two months, it's already been 3 months and there's nothing, next time just STFU if you can't come up with a good argument to defend your stupid question.

 

[401Grem]

What the fuck are you even thalkin about, when did i say he promised me something? He said he's going to split the update into two parts and release each part in two months, it's already been 3 months and there's nothing, next time just STFU if you can't come up with a good argument to defend your stupid question.

You're the one making a case of something that is none of your concern, and not relevant to the discussion.

 

[Decent-Win]

You're the one making a case of something that is none of your concern, and not relevant to the discussion.

I saw someone make a false statement i pointed it out, you for some reason i don't understand felt the need to ask me if i have unrealistic expectations starting this whole argument.
Also we are talking about a game and its creator in a thread made for that game it's relevant to the discussion.

 

[Tehemai]

I really don't understand people's compulsion to act as overzealous PR for developers. What the person said a few pages back about them paid online advocates is obviously crazy conspiracy but I kinda get why someone could come to believe it with the level of hostile fanaticism some people display to critics. People are allowed to be critical, that is how a developer learns where he needs to work on. Especially when it's not really a subjective thing like in this instance where a developer promises something, doesn't deliver then fails to even communicate about it. This is not entitlement, it's a normal productive consumer response.

There's also a reason why it's free, it's not charity it's an intentional lucrative business model. Consumers of a free game don't need to pay for the privilege of feedback and criticism can lead to improvements for everyone. So as much as those zealots think they're rescuing damsel in distress developers by interjecting themselves between them and the consumers of their products, they're not. They're just hurting all parties involved including themselves.

And the sad truth is even in the cases where they did pay, all these people typically end up saying is "if you don't like it just don't buy it." Which is the worst possible thing to do. That halts the spread of awareness of a prospective problem while instead advocating cutting off the "problem people" before they alert other consumers to it. Hence the products never need to evolve and can implement detrimental things unimpeded. It's exactly this type of behavior that has wreaked havoc on the entire game industry, especially free games.

So TLDR if you see someone criticizing a product you like, whether it's Summertime Saga or any other, stop and think before you go and bite off his head. Unless he's proposing something that will actively hurt your play experience if implemented, just let it go. You don't have to agree let alone act as his defender, the dev is a professional and is more than capable of handling criticism. And in the long run, not acting as a barrier can lead to a better product for you and everyone else.

 

[Omnikuken]

It's all fun and games until every1 and their mom calls out to people to mass unpledge, too bad it never happened and will probably never either

 

[j4yj4m]

There's also a reason why it's free, it's not charity it's an intentional lucrative business model. Consumers of a free game don't need to pay for the privilege of feedback and criticism can lead to improvements for everyone. So as much as those zealots think they're rescuing damsel in distress developers by interjecting themselves between them and the consumers of their products, they're not. They're just hurting all parties involved including themselves.

And the sad truth is even in the cases where they did pay, all these people typically end up saying is "if you don't like it just don't buy it." Which is the worst possible thing to do. That halts the spread of awareness of a prospective problem while instead advocating cutting off the "problem people" before they alert other consumers to it. Hence the products never need to evolve and can implement detrimental things unimpeded. It's exactly this type of behavior that has wreaked havoc on the entire game industry, especially free games.

So TLDR if you see someone criticizing a product you like, whether it's Summertime Saga or any other, stop and think before you go and bite off his head. Unless he's proposing something that will actively hurt your play experience if implemented, just let it go. You don't have to agree let alone act as his defender, the dev is a professional and is more than capable of handling criticism. And in the long run, not acting as a barrier can lead to a better product for you and everyone else.

The main problem with your point is that the vast(!) majority of people who complain don't actually complain about the game, but mainly about two totally different points. These being, that DC is making too much money and he's too slow. None of these two are connected in any way to the actual content of the game.

Worse even, that most of these people obviously don't even try to inform themselves before they write their "productive consumer response", but probably just see "$60k income" and "2 to 3 months no update" when they start typing some ad hominem stuff.

So while what you are writing is correct in principle, it's not at all what this here usually is about. It's been ages since somebody actually wrote a constructive criticism about SS here, even though there are indeed quite a few things to discuss.

 

[Tehemai]

The main problem with your point is that the vast(!) majority of people who complain don't actually complain about the game, but mainly about two totally different points. These being, that DC is making too much money and he's too slow. None of these two are connected in any way to the actual content of the game.

Worse even, that most of these people obviously don't even try to inform themselves before they write their "productive consumer response", but probably just see "$60k income" and "2 to 3 months no update" when they start typing some ad hominem stuff.

So while what you are writing is correct in principle, it's not at all what this here usually is about. It's been ages since somebody actually wrote a constructive criticism about SS here, even though there are indeed quite a few things to discuss.

Even if that were true, which imo I don't think it is as much as it is a gross oversimplification, that still wouldn't be a problem with my point as much as it is an irrelevant rationalization of why they deserve the hostility. Let's say your claims were correct and the criticism were indeed somehow illegitimate, he still would not need some fans to attack other fans for giving them. That doesn't help anyone, that just causes needless animosity and alienation. It's not a job for consumers to be the arbiters of legitimacy for other consumer feedback. Unless that feedback can adversely affect their experience, they have no reason to attack their fellow consumers for it.

He is the developer. He is the one running the business. It is obviously his job to make judgments on what is constructive feedback from his consumers, not anyone else. What's happening now is more akin to a customer coming into a store to complain about a product they purchased, then another customer overhearing it and starting a fight with them instead of letting the business owner handle it. It just doesn't make sense and the escalation just causes more problems, not less.

And I mean really, you know what they're saying. Sometimes people don't put it as eloquently as one would hope as everyone has their own manner of speaking. But it's pretty obvious that those two points are one, the common theme being more along the lines of he should be able to do more given his resources. Not simply that he's making too much money. Whether you agree or not doesn't mean it's not a standard consumer complaint. In fact it's probably the most stereotypical complaint there is even outside of this field. Either way there may be a reason you hear it so much so let him just address it instead of trying to cut others off at the legs. At worst he explains why he cannot go faster and at best he looks into ways to optimize his production, getting you a better product faster.

 

[j4yj4m]

@Tehemai:
I think what you are writing is a bit besides the point. If someone seriously wants to complain with the intention to improve the game, he should do it in a place where there's actually a chance that his complaint will be read and met, which would be DC's discord, his streams, etc. but certainly not this board, where it very likely won't be read by a member of the team and where he certainly will not get an answer from DC. Trying to change anything by writing here is futile.

To you second point, by now it's pretty much obvious that doesn't want to grow his team beyond what he has. The last real funding goal was set at $25.000 and beyond that nothing was promised. It's his choice and he seems willing to live with the consequence. Just because people give more money doesn't mean that he has to change his way of working.
So sure, people are free to complain about it, but others are just as free to point out that that complaint is out there for almost 3 years now and that the situation won't change. I'd actually say pointing that out is a service, so people don't give DC money because they hope it would increase the speed.

 

[moi!moi!moi!]

And I mean really, you know what they're saying. Sometimes people don't put it as eloquently as one would hope as everyone has their own manner of speaking. But it's pretty obvious that those two points are one, the common theme being more along the lines of he should be able to do more given his resources. Not simply that he's making too much money. Whether you agree or not doesn't mean it's not a standard consumer complaint. In fact it's probably the most stereotypical complaint there is even outside of this field. Either way there may be a reason you hear it so much so let him just address it instead of trying to cut others off at the legs. At worst he explains why he cannot go faster and at best he looks into ways to optimize his production, getting you a better product faster.

Wow someone who isn't a complete brainlet and doesn't purposefully misrepresents and justify their reasoning to gatekeep a thread to stifle discussion. Your presentation of the issue is perfect, but unfortunately you can't make people understand something that they can't grasp in the first place.

Your reply will fall on deaf ears and they will just repeat this behavior with no sign of self awareness, save yourself the time. Cheers

 

[Tehemai]

@Tehemai:
I think what you are writing is a bit besides the point. If someone seriously wants to complain with the intention to improve the game, he should do it in a place where there's actually a chance that his complaint will be read and met, which would be DC's discord, his streams, etc. but certainly not this board, where it very likely won't be read by a member of the team and where he certainly will not get an answer from DC. Trying to change anything by writing here is futile.

To you second point, by now it's pretty much obvious that doesn't want to grow his team beyond what he has. The last real funding goal was set at $25.000 and beyond that nothing was promised. It's his choice and he seems willing to live with the consequence. Just because people give more money doesn't mean that he has to change his way of working.
So sure, people are free to complain about it, but others are just as free to point out that that complaint is out there for almost 3 years now and that the situation won't change. I'd actually say pointing that out is a service, so people don't give DC money because they hope it would increase the speed.

Anywhere is fine to complain. It's on topic and it spreads the word to other consumers. As I mentioned before, it's more a matter of getting the word out. Just like a single person not donating doesn't help, a single person giving him this criticism won't either. The more people notice the problem, the more they will speak out everywhere. And the more they speak out, the higher the chances the problem gets acknowledged and resolved.

As for him not wanting to increase his team, that's for him to communicate. Not for fans to assume. The conversation needs to be started, not shut down. If he doesn't want to increase, he can explain it to the community. Then they may be satisfied or they may press for more details. They may even recommend alternative solutions. Or maybe he will even change his mind. No matter what way the cycle of communication and feedback plays out, it can lead to a more satisfied playerbase and hopefully a better game. In any case, overzealous fans suppressing dissent causing resentment among others is clearly not the way to go. That doesn't remotely make sense no matter which side of the fence you're on.