Ren'Py Summertime Saga [v21.0.0 wip.5605] [Kompas Productions]

[itsyeboii]

The point I wanted to make is, that SS was never advertised as some kind of real incest game. So it's not like DC promised to develop something like SnowDaze, where MC fucks his family and that's it and ended up producing something entirely different. The game we get now is essentially what DC promised we'd get.

I mean, MC is a school boy who lives at home with his family, so it makes sense that this is where the game starts. Sure, it did play a (significant) role at first, but that doesn't mean that DC had to change his plans for the game, just because people liked some of these characters a lot at first. Jenny, Debbie are simply 2 among 8 main girls, while Diane is a strong secondary character like Maria, Mrs. Johnson, etc.

And I agree with that point, it's just that I think the main cast deserves more, in depth-content over the side characters that get tacked on. I'd rather have scenes and quest content be distributed in a logical way rather than have a minority of people who pay determine who gets content and who doesn't, often ending up for minor/supporting characters.

I would like it if every character had 20+ scenes just as much as anyone else, but since that's not realistic, I'd rather have the main cast have the biggest share of content. This isn't exclusively the family btw, it includes Roxxy, Maria, Eve, fuck even Mia when she gets her rework. And while Diane and Roxxy for example, are technically supporting characters, they definitely aren't minor and have been in the game for very long.

Now we get at the core of your complaint.

You never paid for a game. You may have had that thought in your mind, but you were (and are) wrong. That's not how Patreon works. And they state that up front when you subscribe. It's about supporting the artist in their endeavors. There is no legal exchange of goods for that donation subscription (it wouldn't be a donation if there were). A creator may offer bonuses or thank you gifts for being a subscriber or donating at a certain level, but that is on their own volition - and it's not the game.

But it isn't the core of his complaint at all. You think or want it to be the core of his complaining since the whole Patreon/donation explanation is your smoking gun to shut down any criticism or opinion you don't like.

His complaint is fairly simple, he was invested in the characters and quests he played, he donated, only to come back and see a shit ton of minor characters and side-quests added while there's many characters that've been neglected, could use some more content or still need some loose ends tied up.

And then you proclaim "the truth is beautiful", completely oblivious of your hyper-focusing on the one thing you can have a "gotcha" moment on, so you can feel some sense of superiority.

 

[itsyeboii]

No i didn't assumed that . I said he makes that much money from people jerking off so he's pretty smart , so people instead of complaining about milking or not , they must learn to make money like that . Dont talk about milking here or don't defending him too . Let's keep this thread about game and not about he is milking and defending someone make 70000$/month.
Please stop this nonsense.

I agree with what you're saying, but the problem is that there are often people coming in this thread to say DC is a milker who is slow on purpose to get extra money for doing less work. Most of us ignore them because they're either trolling or very ignorant, but it does spark some arguments. While there's also people going after each other's opinions of the game's development and DC's decisions, I'm guilty of that lol.

You just have to accept that this thread is a cesspool and you either take your own advice and watch it burn in silence, or embrace it and contribute to this dumpster fire.

 

[j4yj4m]

And I agree with that point, it's just that I think the main cast deserves more, in depth-content over the side characters that get tacked on. I'd rather have scenes and quest content be distributed in a logical way rather than have a minority of people who pay determine who gets content and who doesn't, often ending up for minor/supporting characters.

To be fair, there are usually a few thousand votes, which is certainly enough to be somewhat representative. Yes, it could be more, but it's not like we are talking about a few dozend extremists or so.
Ultimately the question probably boils down to whether one believes that DC is going to finish the game or not. If he's going to add everything at some point, it doesn't really matter that much, when it's going to happen.

I would like it if every character had 20+ scenes just as much as anyone else, but since that's not realistic, I'd rather have the main cast have the biggest share of content. This isn't exclusively the family btw, it includes Roxxy, Maria, Eve, fuck even Mia when she gets her rework. And while Diane and Roxxy for example, are technically supporting characters, they definitely aren't minor and have been in the game for very long.

Well, ultimately the main cast does have the biggest share of content? Sure, the last years focussed on a ton of other characters, but none of them comes close to having the amount of content as for example, Roxxy, Debbie, Jenny or Eve. Some complained how many scenes Odette got in recent times, yet she's still quite a bit behind those I mentioned.

When it comes to the characters, Sploosh released a tier list some time ago, so we kinda know what's going on in their minds:

Spoiler

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Looking at that list and the number of scenes we've got, I'd say that primary characters will get 10+ scenes, the secondary ones something between 4 - 8 and the teritiary ones 1-4 or so.

Edit: Just to add, the huge number of secondary and tertiary characters, at least in my view, make the game feel quite a bit more alive. In most other games you've got your cast and no much else, except maybe a few additional characters. In SS on the other hand, there are all of these "normal" characters around (teachers, shop keepers, nurses, nuns, police officers, cleaning ladies, bank clerks, etc.) who are available as well. It really feels like MC is actually, really fucking a whole town and not just "his girls"

 

[syuhung]

when is the next update

 

[itsyeboii]

To be fair, there are usually a few thousand votes, which is certainly enough to be somewhat representative. Yes, it could be more, but it's not like we are talking about a few dozend extremists or so.
Ultimately the question probably boils down to whether one believes that DC is going to finish the game or not. If he's going to add everything at some point, it doesn't really matter that much, when it's going to happen.

I've actually said the same before, as long as DC finishes the game it doesn't matter who gets voted for, they'll get their content, just in a different order, but I was also talking about the pre-tech updates which is different. And a few thousand out of the tens of thousands of Patrons, not counting fans who don't donate, isn't representative. Some people also have more votes depending on their donation tier.

Well, ultimately the main cast does have the biggest share of content? Sure, the last years focussed on a ton of other characters, but none of them comes close to having the amount of content as for example, Roxxy, Debbie, Jenny or Eve. Some complained how many scenes Odette got in recent times, yet she's still quite a bit behind those I mentioned.

When it comes to the characters, Sploosh released a tier list some time ago, so we kinda know what's going on in their minds:

Spoiler

You don't have permission to view the spoiler content. Log in or register now.

Looking at that list and the number of scenes we've got, I'd say that primary characters will get 10+ scenes, the secondary ones something between 4 - 8 and the teritiary ones 1-4 or so.

Edit: Just to add, the huge number of secondary and tertiary characters, at least in my view, makes the game feel quite a bit more alive. In most other games you've got your cast and no much else. In SS on the other hand there are all of these "normal" characters around (teachers, shop keepers, nurses, nuns, police officers, cleaning ladies, etc.) who are available as well. As it it really feels like MC is actually, really fucking a whole town and not just "his girls"

Sure, the main cast has the majority but in my opinion I'd have the main cast have some more content instead of being able to fuck every single girl in the game. For example, Diane's route has a huge pregnancy theme but the game never elaborates on it, I'd rather have time and resources put into giving these characters an in-depth route than having two scenes with a generic character. It would've been fine if there weren't so many side girls but jesus fucking christ there's so many fuckable characters to account for that it starts to feel as if the game won't ever be finished.

That discord screenshot you showed does give me some hope though, it looks like those girls will have some dating content and perhaps some lewd content on top of that too. I just hope there will be some more pregnancy content added other than one scene, especially for characters that have a pregnancy theme. Or other characters that hint at possible situations.

 

[Odin Eye Patch]

when is the next update

part of me was hoping we'd get it as a Xmas present but i think we will probably get it by next summer maybe later so i wouldn't get your hopes up that this will come out soon but id happily be wrong

 

[Omnikuken]

I've actually said the same before, as long as DC finishes the game it doesn't matter who gets voted for, they'll get their content, just in a different order, but I was also talking about the pre-tech updates which is different. And a few thousand out of the tens of thousands of Patrons, not counting fans who don't donate, isn't representative. Some people also have more votes depending on their donation tier.



Sure, the main cast has the majority but in my opinion I'd have the main cast have some more content instead of being able to fuck every single girl in the game. For example, Diane's route has a huge pregnancy theme but the game never elaborates on it, I'd rather have time and resources put into giving these characters an in-depth route than having two scenes with a generic character. It would've been fine if there weren't so many side girls but jesus fucking christ there's so many fuckable characters to account for that it starts to feel as if the game won't ever be finished.

That discord screenshot you showed does give me some hope though, it looks like those girls will have some dating content and perhaps some lewd content on top of that too. I just hope there will be some more pregnancy content added other than one scene, especially for characters that have a pregnancy theme. Or other characters that hint at possible situations.

So you mean every election ever is a scam, since not every1 voted and people get elected with a few votes out of millions of voters

 

[Stil996]

...

When it comes to the characters, Sploosh released a tier list some time ago, so we kinda know what's going on in their minds:

Spoiler

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....

I can't get over him listing my beloved Consuela as a secondary character... She's the star of my play through (along with Maria and Josie), With Mrs Smith being top of my wish list to join their ranks.
I'd ditch almost the entire Primary list (with the possible exception of Eve), if it meant getting more content for them.

Deb, Jen & Diane could have been great if there had been more Taboo Angst. Mia & Roxxxy were ruined IMO by not having mother/daughter scenes (Am I alone in thinking their moms are more desirable than their daughters?)

&
How can Annie, Rhonda & Judith be listed as Primary characters when they still don't have any real content, considering all those stating the game is technically finished.

I know plans change, shit gets cut, but fingers crossed the game continues to grow and all that potential eventually gets fulfilled.

 

[Stil996]

So you mean every election ever is a scam, since not every1 voted and people get elected with a few votes out of millions of voters

Dude... Every election IS a scam... is this really news to you? Democracy is an illusion.

 

[j4yj4m]

@itsyeboii:
Yeah, I'd strongly agree on that pregnancy point. It would have been much better to just have pregnancies for 1 or 2 characters to elaborate them properly instead of everyone. But that option has passed ages ago, sadly. Now it'll depend on DC's time and mood how much pregnancy content Diane will get. On the upside, there are plans to release another, albeit smaller, update for her, so we may get a little bit more.

How can Annie, Rhonda & Judith be listed as Primary characters when they still don't have any real content, considering all those stating the game is technically finished.

Well, it has always been the plan to have the 6 school girls as main girls (next to Debbie, Jenny [and Diane as strongest secondary character]) who will get an equal amount of content. And of course the game is far from being done.
Sure, the main story part about finding out what happened to MC's dad is done, but there's still the way bigger dating/prom part left.

 

[Stil996]

Well, it has always been the plan to have the 6 school girls as main girls (next to Debbie, Jenny [and Diane as strongest secondary character]) who will get an equal amount of content. And of course the game is far from being done.
Sure, the main story part about finding out what happened to MC's dad is done, but there's still the way bigger dating/prom part left.

Meh!... My main goal has always been to fuck the principle, preferably over her desk with the PA system turned on so the whole school can hear
Until that happens there will never be a satisfactory end IMO.

 

[itsyeboii]

So you mean every election ever is a scam, since not every1 voted and people get elected with a few votes out of millions of voters

Comparing a majority of people with a singular right vote to a paying minority, some of whom have multiple votes, is a far reach.

Even if some people choose to not vote, which is a vote in and of itself, an election still represents what the majority of people voted for, at least in my country. But sure, there's a lot of ways elections devalues the votes of the people. Not sure what your point here is.

I'm also not saying there's anything wrong with the polls not being representative since DC never claimed them to be. I do care how they steer the order of updates though, especially with the pre-techs.

 

[401Grem]

Comparing a majority of people with a singular right vote to a paying minority, some of whom have multiple votes, is a far reach.

Even if some people choose to not vote, which is a vote in and of itself, an election still represents what the majority of people voted for, at least in my country. But sure, there's a lot of ways elections devalues the votes of the people. Not sure what your point here is.

I'm also not saying there's anything wrong with the polls not being representative since DC never claimed them to be. I do care how they steer the order of updates though, especially with the pre-techs.

Just remember, that an opposing vote cancels your vote, and most elections are decided by an extreme minority, that have no opposing vote canceling it, which could be as few as 1.

 

[itsyeboii]

Just remember, that an opposing vote cancels your vote, and most elections are decided by an extreme minority, that have no opposing vote canceling it, which could be as few as 1.

I know, my point is about the access to votes and not how democracy works. You can't compare a system where everyone has a vote to do with as they please, to a poll only few people have access to and some of whom have multiple votes.

More power to DC and the voters, it doesn't matter much tbh, but it's not an accurate representation of what the majority wants, only what those few select people want. It's not really a statistic you can build any argument on.

 

[Count Morado]

but it's not an accurate representation of what the majority wants, only what those few select people want. It's not really a statistic you can build any argument on.

Yes, it is a statistic you can build an argument on. I don't know what business background you have or where you are founding your beliefs on, but they do not exist in the real world.

DC's livelihood, and that of his staff, are dependent on the contributions of patreons. Therefore, in order to maintain, or increase, that aspect - it is in the best interest of the development team to address those options provided that are most supported by those who contribute to that livelihood. It does DC no good to get input from those who do not subscribe which may, or may not, influence the outcome of those polls. If voters who are not subscribed overrule those who do subscribe and DC follows it, it can cause 'buyers remorse" as well as increase the sense of futility in donating (i.e. "why should I contribute if people who don't can overrule the wants of those do contribute"). And should enough of that feeling pervade the subscribers, DC could see the number of patrons decrease and therefore his livelihood - and those of his staff - become less secure.

Before you say "well, if people who aren't subscribed were able to vote and their desires prevailed, DC could look at a potential of increased income from new subscribers" - while this is a good hypothesis, there isn't much validity. It goes to the old "bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." And again, you're putting your nut over the food on the table of the development team. If you want to influence the content based upon the options made available in polls, subscribe to vote.

 

[itsyeboii]

Yes, it is a statistic you can build an argument on. I don't know what business background you have or where you are founding your beliefs on, but they do not exist in the real world.

DC's livelihood, and that of his staff, are dependent on the contributions of patreons. Therefore, in order to maintain, or increase, that aspect - it is in the best interest of the development team to address those options provided that are most supported by those who contribute to that livelihood. It does DC no good to get input from those who do not subscribe which may, or may not, influence the outcome of those polls. If voters who are not subscribed overrule those who do subscribe and DC follows it, it can cause 'buyers remorse" as well as increase the sense of futility in donating (i.e. "why should I contribute if people who don't can overrule the wants of those do contribute"). And should enough of that feeling pervade the subscribers, DC could see the number of patrons decrease and therefore his livelihood - and those of his staff - become less secure.

Before you say "well, if people who aren't subscribed were able to vote and their desires prevailed, DC could look at a potential of increased income from new subscribers" - while this is a good hypothesis, there isn't much validity. It goes to the old "bird in the hand is worth two in the bush." And again, you're putting your nut over the food on the table of the development team. If you want to influence the content based upon the options made available in polls, subscribe to vote.

I've said multiple times that there's nothing wrong with DC giving votes out to Patrons who pay, for the exact reason you just gave. I think in the past I've argued that votes could be free and that DC could benefit from it, but I was wrong because it's probably a less viable system and there's also voter fraud to worry about with bots, although I still think votes can be handed out to lower tier Patrons and give higher tier Patrons an extra vote, but that's really a small thought in the back of my head, it really doesn't matter. DC has all the right to incentivize people to become Patrons.

My notion that it's not a representative of what the majority of fans want came from people calling it public demand some time ago and now I used it again in my discussion with j4yj4m saying I'd prefer DC taking the reigns and potentially having a more organic development cycle, rather than having disjointed updates determined by a minority of Patrons, although that's based on absolutely nothing and is more wishful thinking. We were just making conversation at that point.

Then your friend Omnikuken compared apples to oranges and we talked about democracy for a bit. And now you come in guns blazing talking about DC's business incentive, which is a completely different avenue. I'll grant you that "It's not really a statistic you can build any argument on." is a pretty bad way of wording it but in the context of the conversation it kind of makes sense.

And I would never put my nut over the devs food that's disgusting, unless they like that, then they can call me.

 

[FlyingPony]

I'd prefer DC taking the reigns and potentially having a more organic development cycle, rather than having disjointed updates determined by a minority of Patrons

Initially when Dev said voting, I thought "here is my plan for a future update but I have time to add a couple of scenes for the most voted char". But at this point it is what it is.

 

[itsyeboii]

Initially when Dev said voting, I thought "here is my plan for a future update but I have time to add a couple of scenes for the most voted char". But at this point it is what it is.

Nah, Patrons get to vote which character's update is next through polls, granted they pay enough to get a vote(s). It doesn't matter much tho, assuming DC will finish the game and development being pretty much the same as if he would develop the game in his own order/pace.

 

[FlyingPony]

Nah, Patrons get to vote which character's update is next through polls, granted they pay enough to get a vote(s). It doesn't matter much tho, assuming DC will finish the game and development being pretty much the same as if he would develop the game in his own order/pace.

I meant initially, way back when.

 

[Omnikuken]

Initially when Dev said voting, I thought "here is my plan for a future update but I have time to add a couple of scenes for the most voted char". But at this point it is what it is.

I meant initially, way back when.

I don't think it was ever hinted at something like you said. Even the 1st time he polled for something, it was always "you dudes vote who you want made, I'll do what I want with it afterwards". Ish