DrakoGhoul

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Jul 13, 2018
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I mean for me really I kinda see Claudia with some sort of ice power. I know it pretty basic and the only reason I pick that is because of her blue hair. But her having ice could be pretty cool not gonna lie. She could do the normal ice move like freezing targets, making ice sculptures, shooting out projectiles as a level 1 and maybe create some sort of ice mirror for quick in battle movement like Haku from Naruto where he basically was zaping across the battle at like light speed, and further on she could conjure functioning object made out of ice like a gun or cannon like Gray Fullbuster from fairy tail to maybe even summoning giant meteor made out of ice and animal made out of ice like esdeath from Akame ga kill. you know the more I speak about this the more I want her power to be Ice. The sweet innocent Claudia having the coldest power out there sound cool to me
Isn't that Jared's power? He used Ice to attack Laurie. Though, I suppose it could've been crystals too. Plus, her powers are coming from an Apostle Corpse. She'll most likely get something really potent.

Thinking about it, the confirmed children of apostles are as follows
1) Jake
2) Michael
3) Ella / possible MC
4) possible MC
5) Possibly Deus/Zack but not confirmed so None
6) None (but Alice connects to him during her evolution)
7) None that we know of
8) Tiffany (High probability but not confirmed, although I will keep it for now)
9-12) None that we know of

While I don't really believe that all of MC's friends will end up inheriting apostle powers, let's assume that it will happen and try to match them to the numbered. This is my analysis:

While 5th and 6th don't have a confirmed representation, they have powerful superhumans seemingly connected to them.
We know that there are other avatar corpses that HERO seem to search for (according to Aglaecwif), so I'm speculating that the "artificially" induced infections will happen with material of the avatars of 9th to 12th.
7th seems to be active so he will probably infect someone himself.

These are all the human friends that haven't yet undergone the process of infection.
Liz - Possible candidate for a pair with her sister, good candidate for 9th to 12th
Amber - Possible candidate for a pair with her sister, go candidate for 9th to 12th
Mia - She has had a presence and development in the main story. I'm sensing some buildup down the line.
Claudia - We know that her father has planned for it so I'm speculating 9th to 12th
Daryl - Since he is a friend of MC and Ella ignored him, I'm speculating he won't do.
Jordan - Same as Daryl.
Jess - Langdon kind of likes her and she is connected to Jared. Perhaps they will try something? Low chance I guess.
Tess - I find it unlikely. Tess isn't as involved as Jess in the main story.
Christie - Ella said she couldn't handle it physically.
Emily - The most interesting of the bunch, and a good candidate for the 7th.

So of the friends, the most likely candidates IMO are Liz, Amber, Mia, Claudia and Emily for a count of 5, that happens to coincide with the apostles that seemingly have no connections to superhumans at the moment.

Emily:
We know that it's hard for the MC to sense the 7th during Deadend 6. Also darkness powers seem to be a bit more mystical than usual. Perhaps that's the reason why Ella can't determine the compatibility? She also fits the imagery very well.

Claudia:
I'm expecting some surprise here because Tiffany despite her character, got the power of Light which is generally associated with life, happiness and other positive emotions. So I expect Claudia to get something counter to her character too, something associated with negative motions or the lack of them. 9th and 10th worship the Lord of the Dark so I expect her to inherit one of those powers.

Amber & Liz:
It makes sense that they will be matched to a pair, either 9th and 10th or 11th and 12th. I'm going to assume 11th and 12th. The shopkeep makes some wordplay about water. Water is tangible and associated with life and I get the sense that 9th and 10th as followers of the Lord of the Dark are going to be associated with more intangible/esoteric themes.

It's also worthwhile to notice that the shopkeep was speaking with Amber when he mentioned water. Amber is blue while Liz is green. Perhaps the two apostles represent water and earth? Water is blue and Earth has plants which are mostly green. Some food for thought anyway.

Mia:
She is about knowledge and she has shown good judgment. She embodies the more esoteric themes that I've talked about so perhaps she will inherit either 9th or 10th.


So a possible final list could be:
1) Jake
2) Michael
3) Ella
4) MC
5) Deus
6) Alice
7) Emily
8) Tiffany
9) Claudia or Mia
10) Claudia or Mia
11) Liz or Amber
12) Liz or Amber
Fairy is the 6th's son, with Alice being his Granddaughter. The 7th's Spawn is Valravn. Aglaecwif is under the 4th. 8th is pretty much confirmed since we know it's Light from Aglaecwif comment about only the 6th and 8th being able to reach their dimension from the universe via traveling. Since the 7th is Dark, it's twin would naturally be Light. So if it's Light and Tiffany's power come from an Apostle Corpse, it can only be the 8th.

So for the known ones, it would be:

- 1st -
Jake - 1st Gen(100%)
Minyak - 7th Gen(50%)

-- 2nd --
Michael - 1st Gen(100%)
Leigong - 8th Gen(58%)

--- 3rd ---
Ella - 1st Gen(100%)
MC - 1st Gen(100%)
Aglaecwif - Possibly

---- 4th ----
The MC - 1st Gen(100%)
Aglaecwif - Unknown Gen

----- 5th -----
Deus - Possibly
Zack - Possibly

------ 6th ------
The Fairy - 1st Gen(100%)
Alice - 2nd Gen(100%?)
Nico - Gen Unknown
Hex - Gen Unknown

------- 7th -------
Valravn - 1st Gen(100%)

-------- 8th --------
Tiffany - 1st Gen(100%?)
Clark - Unknown Gen

The rest of the Apostles are currently unknown. Though you could potentially fit others under some of the Apostles. Example being, Klaus being under the 2nd while Oscar and the M46 Wepwawet is under the 8th, possibly.
 

bloodaxis

Member
Sep 1, 2017
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402
I mean, that's what I said, no?

"Most people just hate that she's vocally prejudice against people, can be extremely selfish and doesn't care about the MC's status as MC".

You fall squarely in that camp, no?
I was just adding my two cents to my agreeing to what you were saying. Could probably have been a bit clearer on that. :KEK:
 
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Gtdead

Active Member
Jul 13, 2021
906
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Isn't that Jared's power? He used Ice to attack Laurie. Though, I suppose it could've been crystals too. Plus, her powers are coming from an Apostle Corpse. She'll most likely get something really potent.


Fairy is the 6th's son, with Alice being his Granddaughter. The 7th's Spawn is Valravn. Aglaecwif is under the 4th. 8th is pretty much confirmed since we know it's Light from Aglaecwif comment about only the 6th and 8th being able to reach their dimension from the universe via traveling. Since the 7th is Dark, it's twin would naturally be Light. So if it's Light and Tiffany's power come from an Apostle Corpse, it can only be the 8th.

So for the known ones, it would be:

- 1st -
Jake - 1st Gen(100%)
Minyak - 7th Gen(50%)

-- 2nd --
Michael - 1st Gen(100%)
Leigong - 8th Gen(58%)

--- 3rd ---
Ella - 1st Gen(100%)
MC - 1st Gen(100%)
Aglaecwif - Possibly

---- 4th ----
The MC - 1st Gen(100%)
Aglaecwif - Unknown Gen

----- 5th -----
Deus - Possibly
Zack - Possibly

------ 6th ------
The Fairy - 1st Gen(100%)
Alice - 2nd Gen(100%?)
Nico - Gen Unknown
Hex - Gen Unknown

------- 7th -------
Valravn - 1st Gen(100%)

-------- 8th --------
Tiffany - 1st Gen(100%?)
Clark - Unknown Gen

The rest of the Apostles are currently unknown. Though you could potentially fit others under some of the Apostles. Example being, Klaus being under the 2nd while Oscar and the M46 Wepwawet is under the 8th, possibly.
The reason I said "high probability" for Tiffany is that it's not 100% confirmed that the material which infected her is from the 8th apostle. All the evidence points to that, but I kept it open just in case. But yea, the chances of her not being one are extremely slim to none.

As for Valravn and Aglaecwif, they seem to be Variants. I used to think that Valravn is something like a SuperCrow and could evolve, but someone mentioned that the monster report classified him as a variant. Since monsters can't evolve and all that I'm hesitant to include them in this conversation.
 
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RonaldGrand6969

Active Member
Aug 30, 2019
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So if:
1st=Authority (Confirmed)
2nd=Power (Most Certain)
3rd=Body (Confirmed)
4th=Mind (Confirmed)
5th=Time (Most Likely)
6th=Space (Confirmed)
7th=Dark (Confirmed)
8th=Light (Most Likely)
And somewhere amongst the rest=Death, Life, Destruction, Creation (Perhaps, though I'm confident Death is up there somewhere)

Where does Bernhardt, Malik, Danica, Alexis, or Cole's power branch into?



Most other powers have been pretty predictable from where they branch from, for example:
Demi=1st
Charlie=1st
Zara=1st
Oscar=1st
Shen=4th, 6th?
Jared=8th
Klaus=6th
That rock construct chick Michael fights=Creation
Ella's plant kid=Life
Deryl=Creation
Lucius=Creation
Clark=2nd, 6th
Angelina=3rd?
Nicolette=6th, 8th
Etc. Etc.

But I if it's not the guessed final Apostle powers we're thinking of, where does Fire, Ice, Wind, Acid, Coffin? (Could be Death), Heat, etc. all fall into?

My gander was Power at first (the 2nd), but they differ way too far off from Michael's ability but are still ridiculously powerful in their own right to be from something SUPER down the generation line...any thoughts or am I just stupid?

Edit: Danica could be a form of Light perhaps...
 

DrakoGhoul

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Jul 13, 2018
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It would take too long to go over it all again but if Life and Creation are indeed Apostles. People like Deryl, the Rebis, Lexi, Lucius, Briar, Laurie(?) and so on would fall under those. If Destruction is an Apostle, Malik would likely fall under it. Maybe even Bernhardt, Cole and whoever else as well. Nyx would obviously fall under the hypothetical Death Apostle.

Thing to keep in mind though. Just because they might fall under a certain Apostle Trait, it doesn't necessarily rule out that they're not mixed among others as well. Nyx powers, for example, are called "Negative Energy" and looks like lightning, which could also mean she's under the 2nd, who's called "The Power" in game. The monster that turned her could have a mixture of the 2nd's power and whichever Apostle is the Death one with a bit of the 4th mixed in. Kind of like how Minyaks have the 1st, 3rd and 7th mixed in them.

I did it in an older post but you can fit plenty of characters under each of the 12 Apostles. Nico, Hex, Leigong(only 34%) and so on for the 6th. For the 8th, you could fit Clark, Oscar, Oscar's Monster, Dani, and those Barrier Monsters(Hard light?), potentially under them. Someone like Shen could be under a monster from the 1st line with traits of the 4th.

We could probably go on and on with the speculation since the powers have so many mechanics to them. Going back to Dani, her monster power could be mixed with 2nd, 8th and Destruction. Charlie and the Shopkeep could have 1st(Authority), 5th(Time), and Death. Time because the Shopkeep seems to know the future a bit. Authority because of Charlie's Geas. Death because disobeying Shopkeep order to not look at the item causes instant death, though that could also just be the power gap in play.

So yeah, hopefully we get some snippets of lore from Fairy Thing in this upcoming update. Hell, I'll even take some crumbs. I don't need much for my mind to come up with wild theories to keep me entertained.
 
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Gtdead

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Jul 13, 2021
906
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It's really hard to determine how the Apostle traits work, which makes it even harded to determine how the non-pure powers came to be.
For example:

Jake is the son of Authority and he can change the target's behavior relative to an object or a concept.
One specific thing we can see him do is make people "forget", but it's fairly consistent because he doesn't alter the memory, just the target's behavior to that memory. He claims he can make a child think that Jake is the father for example.

Memory powers on the other hand don't really have to do with "memory" as in consciousness. MC can read and transfer information about an object, be it organic or inorganic, with or without consciousness but he can't change the behavior to that memory or alter the memory itself (at least for the time being).

So basically, what we would consider as a memory manipulation attack, would be closer to the power of the 1st than the 4th.
So, is Shen's power related to the 1st or the 4th? Seems to me he is closer to 1st.

Demi is particularly interesting.
The attraction she can create is closer to the power of the 1st since it's an altered behavior, but she can also alter the perception of her target in relation to an object. However she doesn't control what the target sees. She just creates a phantasm and the target's imagination gives it shape. So basically she seems to subconsciously "read" information about the target and creates something appropriate, but she has no control over it.
I'd say that Demi is a mix of 1st and 4th.

And then we have the crazy oddballs like Darkness and Light.
Light seems to be about photon manipulation, light wavelengths that facilitate this photobiomodulation ability, but Tiffany can also turn into light, which sounds like mass to energy to mass again conversion that seems to be some mix of the domains of 2nd and 3rd.

Darkness is even crazier.
Black Night - Absense of light, shadow tendrils that bind/immobilize targets, (Valravn)
Dark Miasma - Blocks intangible effects (Valravn)
Shadow step - Sinks into shadows and teleports (Valravn and the 7th)
Camouflage - Can hide the supernatural aura (Valravn and the 7th).
Shadow form - When MC jams his tail into the armor's eye slit, he doesn't seem to connect to flesh. (Valravn)

I can't think of a phenomenon that explains all of these.
 

Gtdead

Active Member
Jul 13, 2021
906
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Lord Tzeentch approves of the constant flux of Dakrness powers. He told me in my sleep.
 

bloodaxis

Member
Sep 1, 2017
227
402
Jake is the son of Authority and he can change the target's behavior relative to an object or a concept.
One specific thing we can see him do is make people "forget", but it's fairly consistent because he doesn't alter the memory, just the target's behavior to that memory. He claims he can make a child think that Jake is the father for example.
The way I see it is that "Authority" is just rewriting/reprogramming, whether that be behaviour/memories matters not, it's just what Jake, imo foolishly, chose to focus on, and likely why this in tandem with "Power" would be incredibly powerful, because you'd then potentially be able to rewrite reality/concepts given enough raw power to do so. It would've been very interesting to see someone with a penchant for experimentation get the Authority power because I'm fairly certain they could've utilised it for so much more than just mind control.
 

BruceBerserk

Newbie
Jun 11, 2023
82
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I remember people talking about a dead end with the MC getting possessed, fighting alexis and Avoiding Malik, and then seeing a disappointed Ella seeing that the MC wasn't him anymore. was this a dead end that involved a high corruption? I'm guessing it takes place in the most recent battle
 
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DrakoGhoul

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Jul 13, 2018
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I remember people talking about a dead end with the MC getting possessed, fighting alexis and Avoiding Malik, and then seeing a disappointed Ella seeing that the MC wasn't him anymore. was this a dead end that involved a high corruption? I'm guessing it takes place in the most recent battle
Yes, you have to have like 25 Corruption, I think. My Murderhobo had 28 while my Corruption Main had 25 to 26, I believe. It takes place when you meet the Eye in their plane of existence.
 

Gtdead

Active Member
Jul 13, 2021
906
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The way I see it is that "Authority" is just rewriting/reprogramming, whether that be behaviour/memories matters not, it's just what Jake, imo foolishly, chose to focus on, and likely why this in tandem with "Power" would be incredibly powerful, because you'd then potentially be able to rewrite reality/concepts given enough raw power to do so. It would've been very interesting to see someone with a penchant for experimentation get the Authority power because I'm fairly certain they could've utilised it for so much more than just mind control.
I like using the word behavior because it can be applied in a broader sense. For example, when 2 objects "collide", their behavior is that they exchange energy. A being with the power of Order may be able able to instruct these objects to not exchange energy and pass through each other completely unaffected.

I don't have a background in physics and I don't know if that's accurate, but it makes sense to me.

If I had to guess how the power of just Authority would interact with objects, I'd probably think in terms of telekinesis. The fundamentals don't change, but the object does what it was instructed to do. But perhaps when we learn about the other Apostles my opinion will change.
 

Gtdead

Active Member
Jul 13, 2021
906
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I remember people talking about a dead end with the MC getting possessed, fighting alexis and Avoiding Malik, and then seeing a disappointed Ella seeing that the MC wasn't him anymore. was this a dead end that involved a high corruption? I'm guessing it takes place in the most recent battle
It happens if during the evolution you allow the Eye to be reborn (choose "Yes"). It will lead you to Deadend 36. If you have >= 25 corruption, instead of going to Main Menu, it will continue to Deadend 37.

If you just want to watch the scene without much hassle, you can do it with the console.
Just load any saved file (you will need to have named MC otherwise it will throw an error at some point).
Press shift-O, type:
jump deadend37

and press enter.

To enable the console, assuming you play this on either windows or linux (it's probably the same on mac but I have never downloaded a mac version so I can't be sure), open renpy/common/00console.rpy with a text editor
search for "config.console = False" and change it to "config.console = True", then relaunch the game.
 

7empest5teele

Well-Known Member
Dec 23, 2019
1,146
790
What a full and expansive world that was created here, which is prompting me to share my thoughts and feedback!
The following contains several CAPITALIZED words that are only used to highlight certain sections, making them stand out as important points throughout this post.

I love TRUE virtual novels that give the reader SO many options and branches to take the story in, I know how difficult it must be to write in this format, but is something I DEEPLY appreciate and look for as a potential FAVORITE, much like when I have read several "Choose-your-own-adventure novels" that I ADORED back in middle school (I can never find gems like those!), this ALSO gives the game a HUGE re-playability, where you can guide the story into vastly different directions and outcomes, cementing your audience through SEVERAL additional journies.

The character's dialog and art have progressively gotten better within each update, the exception being Michael almost exclusively, (and a couple of others that seem to include the same art style), which to me resembles the drawings of an ex-girlfriend from early high school (usually the eyes, mouth or other facial irregularities shown here).
The MC though was clearly influenced by a now-deceased Peter Steele who was the frontman of a band famously known as "Type O Negative" (Incidentally whenever I require a last name while playing a game, it has ALWAYS been 5teele, first name is always 7empest)
Alice looks like a colorful preying-mantis might, with her obvious Asian mother's attributes, or that's how they translate to me while going through this.
The comical factor of Derek/ Deryl/ Daryl was not lost on me ("Hai, I'm Larry, this is my brother Daryl and my OTHER brother Deryl, we are here to fix your septic tank", spoken in a heavy southern very uneducated drawl), I am sure those that enjoy classic sitcoms might come across something like THAT in their search)

The story, WOW did it ever expand to carefully and safely include such a large cast, AND they developed it where many received dialog semi-consistently (of course though, it was clear that later on, the story had to focus primarily on a few key characters, leaving many temporarily in the background, yet we were NEVER sitting here wondering what a certain character was doing for very long.)
The MYTHOS and supernatural elements that are thrown into the narrative are incredible.
I enjoyed the inclusion of the older "Monsters" which naturally made their dialog spoken more ancient, though it could have been brought MUCH further back to long-forgotten languages like Aramaic, as in how Nyx is currently uses Norweigean RUNES in my opinion.
ALSO, story-wise, there were several points of interest where I, the reader, had to wonder WHY the MC wasn't handling certain situations vastly differently when we KNOW the abilities he currently possessed, almost like those ideas SHOULD have been prominent and utilized.
By this version's number, I can theorize that it is closing in to be the end of a chapter, since there is a LOT of ground to cover MUCH more story, due to so many intricately woven characters that the devs can draw from, and/or segway into.

The ONE set of areas that I had a PET PEEVE about, has to do with some of the dialog:
"I Mean" STARTS many of the sentences which would be fine WITHIN the narrative (in the middle of a paragraph), is just PAINFUL to read.
There was a conversation in which even an ancient DIETY started a sentence like that...wow talk about ripping me RIGHT out of the emersion I was invested in.
"I GUESS" never needed to be included in almost ALL the times it was utilized,
"Yeah, no" not needing to be used anywhere at all!
I cannot read those dialog choices without picturing the characters using them as being a little retarded, but HEY that's just MY OPINION right?

Anyway, I am looking forward to seeing how deep this rabbit hole goes, and what's new in the world of...
SUPERHUMAN.
 

TerminusPrime

Member
Nov 23, 2020
178
447
I like using the word behavior because it can be applied in a broader sense. For example, when 2 objects "collide", their behavior is that they exchange energy. A being with the power of Order may be able able to instruct these objects to not exchange energy and pass through each other completely unaffected.

I don't have a background in physics and I don't know if that's accurate, but it makes sense to me.

If I had to guess how the power of just Authority would interact with objects, I'd probably think in terms of telekinesis. The fundamentals don't change, but the object does what it was instructed to do. But perhaps when we learn about the other Apostles my opinion will change.
When you go to see Ella at her orphanage she talks to you about her second student, which happens to be Jake. She mentions that he had problems dealing with other people and as a result he was only using his power on people and hasn't tried to use it on objects.
Jake's power is much more than mind control, but now that's he's mostly out of the story I don't think we'll get a good view at exactly what he could have accomplished.
 
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RonaldGrand6969

Active Member
Aug 30, 2019
941
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So I think I have a pretty firm grasp on what H.E.R.O's goals are, but I'm still juggling with what S.I.N is after...I have a few theories:

1. They Really Are Just After Independence
I'd assume this would probably ONLY apply to Ella's children's goal, rather than the higher ups funding the organization. Though obviously WITH strings attached, this would be Zara's marks probably for my next point...

2. Manpower
Ella is on a certain monster side or at least, their goals are aligned; as neither the monsters or her work for each other, it's a (temporary?) partnership. If the marks Zara puts on them truly are to be used as a form of enslavement, it was probably Ella's orders rather than the S.I.N higher ups in order to use the Superhumans as pawns whenever she sees fit.

3. A New H.E.R.O Takeover
This would probably be exclusive to the higher ups at S.I.N, as they have always been a group jealous of Dexter's accomplishments and resources. If they take H.E.R.O down, they are the only group standing to be the new power monopoly of the Superhuman world.


So far we have minimal reasons to distrust S.I.N as it stands. Even Ella wanted no real part of it in the first place but seemed to have Zara interfere a little in how they went about recruit, probably just her own insurance slice. Cole is obviously on board for it PERSONALLY due to beef with H.E.R.O, and Zara I think just views it as fun.

For those wondering what I think H.E.R.O's goal is just in case; I'm like 99% sure they just want to transcend humanity and stop the monsters through research and order. Some have small differences in how to achieve the goal, but overall the end point is still the same. Morally most of the members save for Malik and Clark (and maybe Alexis) actually don't give a fuck about how they go about it. How many lives will be lost, how many test subjects they need, etc. they are NOT a "hero" organization, they're probably more like "Vought" from "The Boys" just with a little less psychotic tendencies for the sake of psychotic tendencies.

Those are just my takes, BOTH are morally bad from the recruitment perspective; S.I.N has those marks that are an obvious insurance, while H.E.R.O will literally torture or even kill you/hunt you down if you don't sign up. Actions wise S.I.N will openly murder, H.E.R.O will discreetly murder. Disagree if you want but I just thought I'd throw them out there and see what you guys think.
 
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bloodaxis

Member
Sep 1, 2017
227
402
When you go to see Ella at her orphanage she talks to you about her second student, which happens to be Jake. She mentions that he had problems dealing with other people and as a result he was only using his power on people and hasn't tried to use it on objects.
Jake's power is much more than mind control, but now that's he's mostly out of the story I don't think we'll get a good view at exactly what he could have accomplished.
Exactly, if we take the word "Authority" at face value, we're left with asking, authority over what? And if we go deep enough we're basically at the level of the judeo christian god, being the ultimate authority. Like imagine being able to just command someone out of existence. Jake was a massive dipshit for how badly he mismanaged his power.

So I think I have a pretty firm grasp on what H.E.R.O's goals are, but I'm still juggling with what S.I.N is after...I have a few theories:
Personally I believe that they're just rich assholes afraid of other rich assholes (dexter) getting one up on them and ruining their wealth/power. Basically creating a force that lets them actually have a say in how things are run. Speaking specifically about the ruling council now with Langdon and Klaus dad and so on, Ellas group probably have their own agenda.
 
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