Well, it could happen, but I think it's unlikely, lv 5 is suposed to be an extremely exclusive club, accesible only to those who completed complicated requirements (until Xanthe started forging invitations), moreover, Aos said something like the MC would truly understand how fucked up his situation is once he reaches said level, so it could be reserved for later. Also note that a lv4 MC could be very well be on par with the newer lv5s, especially with the Eye now active, so there could be no need for him to evolve in the short term. So far our protagonist has evolved from human to lv 3 (soon to be 4), the next part could start from lv4 and have him acquire alternative ways to increase his Power (as Nico has hinted at), like Deryl's "Philosopher's Pebble", Ella's eyes or the DW sword that we haven't heard from for a while, then reach lv5 (preferably through natural ways, Xanthe's serum if failed decisions and/or checks, and finally that "different" stage that he is supposed to get to (like that statue in the sky city, idk if he would skip lv5 to this one).
(Then again, he could die and be reborn with the help of Nyx's mark, though this might be just a trial.)
We also can't ignore the fact that the MC is the MC for a reason. He's like NEO in the Matrix. He's special.
He was literally birthed by not only a monster, but an extremely powerful Chosen.
He has the abilities of, and connection to, not one, but two Apostles.
And there's The Eye, which, at the very least, gives him a direct connection to some sort of prehistoric power.
How many other characters check off one of these boxes, let alone all three.
WW has subtly written the MC in a way that none of the evolution rules/trends may even apply to him. As a result, no scenario is off the table for him.
I checked the wiki to "confirm" but I can't remember it being stated that there are trials to become Chosen, only meeting some criteria. From what I remember it seemed more of a "If an Apostles declares you a Chosen, then you become a Chosen" type of deal. Adding to that I believe Aos said/implied that to be eligible to become a Chosen you have to either be a level 5 or a S rank monster, so before the invention of the serum I suppose it was a given that a superhuman candidate to have already completed all their trials.
Somewhat related but have Alice even completed/been given any trials that we know of? Maybe her learning to fly was one but I don't think the 6th/Aos tasked/suggested her to do that.
As for the Captains, they didn't unknowingly complete their trials. After Henri got to level 5 he provided enough insight/guidance for Bernhardt and Malik to complete their own trials and get their own natural evolutions. None of the other captains did this because it was considered far too risky, hence the development of the serum.
I keep flip-flopping on what I believe that ritual was ment to achieve. Ella said she got her eyes from a ritual and that speech mentions eyes, but she also failed that ritual so did she redo it later? Got a "lesser" version of them? Got them anyway?
It also says "Memories visible" which meshes with earlier theories/guess that the ritual was supposed to increase her Memory lineage and her drinking a liquid that connected her with the 4th while evolving would be a logical way to do it.
Maybe it was both and if she succeeded she would have been able to access memories like the MC but with sight instead of touch?
Also Tanos mechanical copy of her eyes. How/when did he get it? He wouldn't have been able to study them to make it if she got the eyes after she escaped, so did she have them before she escaped? He probably wouldn't mention Ella if he just got the blueprint from the Rebis.
I really hope, but kind of doubt, that this will be explained since this is a relatively tiny detail in the story.
I believe the only known requirements for a natural level 5 are passing the trials, which are different for each person probably. There's likely a sort of "theme" or general logic to the trials since Henri was able to somehow inform Bernhardt and Malik on what they needed to do to pass their own trials.
Michael may be the best example for what the trials might look like since we know of multiple ones he has to accomplish, which include: Absorbing a variety of different types of energy, draining the heat from a planets core and absorbing the energy of a S class monster.
I don't remember if there were others but there is a theme here of absorbing either diverse types of energy and enormous quantity or "quality" of energy. They seem to direct him to use his powers in ways he might not have considered or push him to "gorge" himself past what he would normally have attempted.
As for the other levels, I believe there are no real requirements other than just being strong enough to qualify and stable enough not to monsterify.
Rereading the VN, I come back to the second EyeMC DeadEnd, something curious about it though, that I didn't pay much mind before(mostly because of being on the train of Clown EyeMC by jobbing yet again), is that Bernhardt didn't believe in the existence of Monsters beyond the S-Class until he faces the MC on his origin form.
Besides the fact that this DeadEnd straight up confirm that the incomplete Eye is well above Chosen level(with exceptions being prob Aglaecwif and Indra, maybe Black Mouth too)as Bern didn't really feel impressed by Eisheth, yet he immediately locked in for EyeMC, is that by this point, Zack already told the rest of the Captains, the details about his squad's being stomped by the LoD, did Bernhardt truly think that Zack was just bullshit them?
That aside, now in Canon, or the Main Timeline(?, Bernhardt is finally gonna see a being beyond S-Class once he reach Malik fighting against the Wasting Mother, now I even more so want WeirdWorld to give us a peek in that fight, would be a good point of comparison in how the Eye measure with Complete 'Gods', though since Malik has been fighting the Wasting Mama for who knows how long already, and the battle is gonna keep going at least other twelve hours, she already out scale EyeMC.
I checked the wiki to "confirm" but I can't remember it being stated that there are trials to become Chosen, only meeting some criteria. From what I remember it seemed more of a "If an Apostles declares you a Chosen, then you become a Chosen" type of deal. Adding to that I believe Aos said/implied that to be eligible to become a Chosen you have to either be a level 5 or a S rank monster, so before the invention of the serum I suppose it was a given that a superhuman candidate to have already completed all their trials.
Somewhat related but have Alice even completed/been given any trials that we know of? Maybe her learning to fly was one but I don't think the 6th/Aos tasked/suggested her to do that.
As for the Captains, they didn't unknowingly complete their trials. After Henri got to level 5 he provided enough insight/guidance for Bernhardt and Malik to complete their own trials and get their own natural evolutions. None of the other captains did this because it was considered far too risky, hence the development of the serum.
I keep flip-flopping on what I believe that ritual was ment to achieve. Ella said she got her eyes from a ritual and that speech mentions eyes, but she also failed that ritual so did she redo it later? Got a "lesser" version of them? Got them anyway?
It also says "Memories visible" which meshes with earlier theories/guess that the ritual was supposed to increase her Memory lineage and her drinking a liquid that connected her with the 4th while evolving would be a logical way to do it.
Maybe it was both and if she succeeded she would have been able to access memories like the MC but with sight instead of touch?
Also Tanos mechanical copy of her eyes. How/when did he get it? He wouldn't have been able to study them to make it if she got the eyes after she escaped, so did she have them before she escaped? He probably wouldn't mention Ella if he just got the blueprint from the Rebis.
I really hope, but kind of doubt, that this will be explained since this is a relatively tiny detail in the story.
I believe the only known requirements for a natural level 5 are passing the trials, which are different for each person probably. There's likely a sort of "theme" or general logic to the trials since Henri was able to somehow inform Bernhardt and Malik on what they needed to do to pass their own trials.
Michael may be the best example for what the trials might look like since we know of multiple ones he has to accomplish, which include: Absorbing a variety of different types of energy, draining the heat from a planets core and absorbing the energy of a S class monster.
I don't remember if there were others but there is a theme here of absorbing either diverse types of energy and enormous quantity or "quality" of energy. They seem to direct him to use his powers in ways he might not have considered or push him to "gorge" himself past what he would normally have attempted.
As for the other levels, I believe there are no real requirements other than just being strong enough to qualify and stable enough not to monsterify.
Rereading the VN, I come back to the second EyeMC DeadEnd, something curious about it though, that I didn't pay much mind before(mostly because of being on the train of Clown EyeMC by jobbing yet again), is that Bernhardt didn't believe in the existence of Monsters beyond the S-Class until he faces the MC on his origin form.
View attachment 5412194 View attachment 5412197
Besides the fact that this DeadEnd straight up confirm that the incomplete Eye is well above Chosen level(with exceptions being prob Aglaecwif and Indra, maybe Black Mouth too)as Bern didn't really feel impressed by Eisheth, yet he immediately locked in for EyeMC, is that by this point, Zack already told the rest of the Captains, the details about his squad's being stomped by the LoD, did Bernhardt truly think that Zack was just bullshit them?
That aside, now in Canon, or the Main Timeline(?, Bernhardt is finally gonna see a being beyond S-Class once he reach Malik fighting against the Wasting Mother, now I even more so want WeirdWorld to give us a peek in that fight, would be a good point of comparison in how the Eye measure with Complete 'Gods', though since Malik has been fighting the Wasting Mama for who knows how long already, and the battle is gonna keep going at least other twelve hours, she already out scale EyeMC.
I checked the wiki to "confirm" but I can't remember it being stated that there are trials to become Chosen, only meeting some criteria. From what I remember it seemed more of a "If an Apostles declares you a Chosen, then you become a Chosen" type of deal. Adding to that I believe Aos said/implied that to be eligible to become a Chosen you have to either be a level 5 or a S rank monster, so before the invention of the serum I suppose it was a given that a superhuman candidate to have already completed all their trials.
Somewhat related but have Alice even completed/been given any trials that we know of? Maybe her learning to fly was one but I don't think the 6th/Aos tasked/suggested her to do that.
As for the Captains, they didn't unknowingly complete their trials. After Henri got to level 5 he provided enough insight/guidance for Bernhardt and Malik to complete their own trials and get their own natural evolutions. None of the other captains did this because it was considered far too risky, hence the development of the serum.
I keep flip-flopping on what I believe that ritual was ment to achieve. Ella said she got her eyes from a ritual and that speech mentions eyes, but she also failed that ritual so did she redo it later? Got a "lesser" version of them? Got them anyway?
It also says "Memories visible" which meshes with earlier theories/guess that the ritual was supposed to increase her Memory lineage and her drinking a liquid that connected her with the 4th while evolving would be a logical way to do it.
Maybe it was both and if she succeeded she would have been able to access memories like the MC but with sight instead of touch?
Also Tanos mechanical copy of her eyes. How/when did he get it? He wouldn't have been able to study them to make it if she got the eyes after she escaped, so did she have them before she escaped? He probably wouldn't mention Ella if he just got the blueprint from the Rebis.
I really hope, but kind of doubt, that this will be explained since this is a relatively tiny detail in the story.
I believe the only known requirements for a natural level 5 are passing the trials, which are different for each person probably. There's likely a sort of "theme" or general logic to the trials since Henri was able to somehow inform Bernhardt and Malik on what they needed to do to pass their own trials.
Michael may be the best example for what the trials might look like since we know of multiple ones he has to accomplish, which include: Absorbing a variety of different types of energy, draining the heat from a planets core and absorbing the energy of a S class monster.
I don't remember if there were others but there is a theme here of absorbing either diverse types of energy and enormous quantity or "quality" of energy. They seem to direct him to use his powers in ways he might not have considered or push him to "gorge" himself past what he would normally have attempted.
As for the other levels, I believe there are no real requirements other than just being strong enough to qualify and stable enough not to monsterify.
From context clues, we can be reliably certain that the ritual she failed was intended to make her a split spawn, or at the very least give her a boost to Memory. We know this cause she drank the Memory Juice in order to start the trial, she has mentioned that Memory has never been her strong suit, and the fact that Memory strongly wants split spawn.
As for the requirements for Evo 5, the only thing we know about it is Ella offhandedly mentioning that your body keeps a record of your strongest battles. My guess, using my glorious meta knowledge, is that for every fight where MC can get a "perfect win" vs a "close shave win", WW keeps track of if you got that perfect win or not. If you get all of them, then MC can reach evo 5 naturally. Otherwise, he'll use the back up option of the serum. This is in addition to all of the other requirements, which we know nothing about. WW has been extremely cagey about what the requirements are, only that it is very easy to miss out on them apparently.
I'm curious if the Path of Ether is implying that Ether also wants Alice to actually physically find its real body. I love the little chances WW gives us to deny the will of the Apostles like this though. From the Klaus fight, refusing to say For the Glory of God, and from the Path of Ether reminding Alice that her mom abandoned them and getting her enraged at the idea of going to find her 'Mother'/Ether. It's gotta just be for flavor cuz keeping track of that would be way too granular to be useful later, but it feels good to get to do it.
As for the requirements for Evo 5, the only thing we know about it is Ella offhandedly mentioning that your body keeps a record of your strongest battles. My guess, using my glorious meta knowledge, is that for every fight where MC can get a "perfect win" vs a "close shave win", WW keeps track of if you got that perfect win or not. If you get all of them, then MC can reach evo 5 naturally. Otherwise, he'll use the back up option of the serum. This is in addition to all of the other requirements, which we know nothing about. WW has been extremely cagey about what the requirements are, only that it is very easy to miss out on them apparently.
Possibly but given the benchmark that is level 5 I would rather it be a big moment in the story, as cliched as it is, I love those moments where the MC busts out an evolution and goes to town. I wouldn't want something so bombastic locked behind a choice or come from a needle. I feel as if the Serums where created as a means to let some of the other main characters play catch up with the MC
Although you're right in that it feels like Ella was acting as a mouth piece to tell us, these wins will matter
To be frank, with so many fearing the serum usage for evolution. Something tells me WW will have MC use it to reach Level 4 instead in a desperate moment. Or even have the Origin outright block it when it's used after MC reached Level 4 naturally. Would be a hell of a twist with either of the above and would also make a certain section of the fanbase stop worrying about it so much.
Ella failed because her ritual required her to kill her entire school or year but she refused to kill christie and in fact destroyed her own body and defied her apostle to do so. she didn't "fail" she said "fuck you i'm not killing one of the only people i care about".
What I am talking about is the specific thing the fourth (?) talks about through Ella with 'fixing what she has done' before she goes to eat everyone in trance and Ella's comments in regards to superhuman adaptability.
While these two things only have one connection, Ella, it stands to reason that she knows the latter, i.e. the comments on how it's good to fight strong opponents because 'your body remembers' and to grow your personal strength first and foremost, from some sort of personal experience.
I am putting this in doubt. The fact is: we don't know. The exact rules, as of now, are a bit vague and it might well be that the rituals are not the requirement but do align with the requirements and the goals of the apostle in question. In fact that sounds incredibly likely because not following an apostle's lead would lock you out from level 5 then and if your spawn doesn't to listen, the best thing you can do is keep them from becoming too powerful.
...Also you keep making me want to ask stupid question about Mycenea.
but are those "requirements" for evolution individual things similar to the rituals and trials we see in the story connected to an individuals monster lineage or are they just obvious stuff that everyone has to do like surviving/experiencing extreme stimulus allowing your body and mind to adapt by actually experimenting with the power granted by your latest evolution
I'm not sure if evolution is influenced by experiences or evolution circumstances are the sole determinant of how your powers grow.
All I am sure about is, that during evolution a superman becomes more malleable, which is why there is any interaction when Tiffany and Michael evolve besides each other. But what happens exactly may very well be determined by previous stressors and especially mental pathways influenced by power use.
This does seem to align with what Xanthe teaches during his classes, that evolutions are kind of adaption breakthroughs where new equilibriums are established.
Zack already told the rest of the Captains, the details about his squad's being stomped by the LoD, did Bernhardt truly think that Zack was just bullshit them?
I think the reason Bernhardt didn't see Kronos getting wiped as too outside the realm of possibility was because Kronos, from how I interpreted things, are the weakest when it comes to direct confrontations. Given that their speciality seems to be their powers of foresight ( Zack and Deus ), information gathering and scouting ( Halona ), and I guess Eira is the one most combat suited, but hers seems to also be more specialized, as in area of attack so she likely shines in guerilla warfare.
I mean if we were to rank each teams based on nothing but pure, destructive power. My head cannon would be :.
1st. Team Cthulhu
2nd. Team Lucifer
3rd. A tie beetwen Reaper and Oberon ? There's too little info on their members.
4th. Team Kronos.
Now that I think about it, it's weird Team Kronos was on the front lines in the first place, given their members shine best as either vital information gatherers or support.
Also was it stated Zack told the other captains ? Didn't Malik ask him about it back in their meeting nd he simply said he already disclosed all info to Xanthe ?
Thinking a little bit here about Zack's situation, when it comes to someone who can see the future, anything is possible, so I wouldn't be surprised if Zack had other plans. No matter what universe it is, anime, games, series, movies, anything, the power to see the future is always one of the most broken. The most curious thing for me is to know how much the Chosen One of the First is related to this. Considering Jake, it would not be surprising if the Chosen from the First could influence Zack's powers. Being able to possess others, he could very well have already infiltrated the Hero. Hell, he might even have possessed him before all this
Thinking a little bit here about Zack's situation, when it comes to someone who can see the future, anything is possible, so I wouldn't be surprised if Zack had other plans. No matter what universe it is, anime, games, series, movies, anything, the power to see the future is always one of the most broken. The most curious thing for me is to know how much the Chosen One of the First is related to this. Considering Jake, it would not be surprising if the Chosen from the First could influence Zack's powers. Being able to possess others, he could very well have already infiltrated the Hero. Hell, he might even have possessed him before all this
Rereading the VN, I come back to the second EyeMC DeadEnd, something curious about it though, that I didn't pay much mind before(mostly because of being on the train of Clown EyeMC by jobbing yet again), is that Bernhardt didn't believe in the existence of Monsters beyond the S-Class until he faces the MC on his origin form.
Besides the fact that this DeadEnd straight up confirm that the incomplete Eye is well above Chosen level(with exceptions being prob Aglaecwif and Indra, maybe Black Mouth too)as Bern didn't really feel impressed by Eisheth, yet he immediately locked in for EyeMC, is that by this point, Zack already told the rest of the Captains, the details about his squad's being stomped by the LoD, did Bernhardt truly think that Zack was just bullshit them?
There may have been some doubt whether The Lord of Dark was especially powerful or if it was just a bad matchup. Nico did try to use Zack's defeat as justification to take his captain spot so she at least saw it as a failure on his part, which is pretty funny since she would most likely fare a lot worse.
That seems to me as more of command/permission to usurp the title rather than a proper trial since Aos is slowly dying and practically rebelling against not only him but the entire Apostle order.
I'm curious if the Path of Ether is implying that Ether also wants Alice to actually physically find its real body. I love the little chances WW gives us to deny the will of the Apostles like this though. From the Klaus fight, refusing to say For the Glory of God, and from the Path of Ether reminding Alice that her mom abandoned them and getting her enraged at the idea of going to find her 'Mother'/Ether. It's gotta just be for flavor cuz keeping track of that would be way too granular to be useful later, but it feels good to get to do it.
I don't see how that dream had any implication of finding the 6th, it seemed to me that it was about Alice finding her actual real human mother. Especially since the 6th has only been referred to in masculine terms, which would make Alice referring to it as Mother very odd. Then there's the issue of the Apostles existing on higher planes, which probably makes it impossible for Alice to physically find it.
Maybe because of the spaceship? I took that as just being a normal dream oddity with gravity/space/"ether" influences.
Now that I think about it, it's weird Team Kronos was on the front lines in the first place, given their members shine best as either vital information gatherers or support.
Future sight might not work well when interacting with the Darkness trait. A practically crippled Valravn evaded both Nico and (probably intentionally) Deus so the 7th itself would have a massively amplified effect. Maybe this "blind spot" made Zack take a closer personal look.
Or maybe Deus fucked with Zack somehow and arranged for it to happen, he has his own agenda and basically took Zacks role afterwards.
Thinking a little bit here about Zack's situation, when it comes to someone who can see the future, anything is possible, so I wouldn't be surprised if Zack had other plans. No matter what universe it is, anime, games, series, movies, anything, the power to see the future is always one of the most broken. The most curious thing for me is to know how much the Chosen One of the First is related to this. Considering Jake, it would not be surprising if the Chosen from the First could influence Zack's powers. Being able to possess others, he could very well have already infiltrated the Hero. Hell, he might even have possessed him before all this
We know from Yuren that The Black Mouth have been active for about 3-10 years now, but for The Black Mouth to control/influence Zack he would have to get the black liquid on him and surely Bramon or the Captains would have noticed something like that. Unless Zack wore a full body suit with gloves and full face mask at all times...
I think the reason Bernhardt didn't see Kronos getting wiped as too outside the realm of possibility was because Kronos, from how I interpreted things, are the weakest when it comes to direct confrontations. Given that their speciality seems to be their powers of foresight ( Zack and Deus ), information gathering and scouting ( Halona ), and I guess Eira is the one most combat suited, but hers seems to also be more specialized, as in area of attack so she likely shines in guerilla warfare.
I mean if we were to rank each teams based on nothing but pure, destructive power. My head cannon would be :.
1st. Team Cthulhu
2nd. Team Lucifer
3rd. A tie beetwen Reaper and Oberon ? There's too little info on their members.
4th. Team Kronos.
Now that I think about it, it's weird Team Kronos was on the front lines in the first place, given their members shine best as either vital information gatherers or support.
Also was it stated Zack told the other captains ? Didn't Malik ask him about it back in their meeting nd he simply said he already disclosed all info to Xanthe ?
The Captains do know, Lieutenants were the ones on the dark apparently, as Halona just tell Lisa about LoD when MC see them talking in the library, about how what attacked them didn't appear to even be a Monster, but something worse that messed up their powers. Malik did seem to have some idea of it all, but didn't know exactly the nature of what put Zack's Team down, he seemed to believe it was something like Indra(An S + rather than something beyond), though I assume Bernhardt asked about it to detail, despite being a hardass, he seem to look after his allies, as he treat Eisheth so disrespectfully and compact her into a sphere, since he heard from Nico that the Pink Horned Chosen tried that with her. All that to say, I do think Bernhardt knew about LoD, therefore an instance of a being beyond S-Class coming from another Captain, which make it odd to me that he wouldn't believe on it with certainty until he faces EyeMC, Zack despite being regard as one of the worst combat suited Captains, is clearly respected, Nyx herself mention that among the Five, Zack's probably the hardest to kill, I think is safe to assume that opinion is shared among all of them to some extent.
Thinking a little bit here about Zack's situation, when it comes to someone who can see the future, anything is possible, so I wouldn't be surprised if Zack had other plans. No matter what universe it is, anime, games, series, movies, anything, the power to see the future is always one of the most broken. The most curious thing for me is to know how much the Chosen One of the First is related to this. Considering Jake, it would not be surprising if the Chosen from the First could influence Zack's powers. Being able to possess others, he could very well have already infiltrated the Hero. Hell, he might even have possessed him before all this
I don't see how that dream had any implication of finding the 6th, it seemed to me that it was about Alice finding her actual real human mother. Especially since the 6th has only been referred to in masculine terms, which would make Alice referring to it as Mother very odd. Then there's the issue of the Apostles existing on higher planes, which probably makes it impossible for Alice to physically find it.
Maybe because of the spaceship? I took that as just being a normal dream oddity with gravity/space/"ether" influences.
I didn't catch masculine pronouns for Ether, but that was probably just from reading through all the Paths in one sitting and not internalizing it. My thought was along the same lines as when MC says Mother capitalized obviously referring to Memory when he's in trances. It wouldn't be completely impossible though. It's just a matter of getting to the Outer Sphere which is a process we don't know anything about. It could really involve distance since it surrounds the First and Second Spheres, or at least that's how I interpreted the mission she was on. If distance is involved that could explain why the Wasting Mother is so far out, or whatever it is Malik intends to confront. Tanos getting access to the Second Sphere kinda throws a wrench in that though. Although I do have a theory that Ella's plans involve summoning the real bodies of the Apostles to the First Sphere so they can be killed sooooo, maybe the search aspect of the dream is a misdirection in that case. ... wait a second what if it was Mother as in the Wasting Mother. That actually fits perfectly and would fit the fucking weird way Apostles talk about shit.
If it wants her to find her actual mom that raises a bunch of weird questions. What could be gained by it other than petty revenge? Unless it's some kind of weird goal involving both her parents where Ether counts Aos as the father. The spaceship still makes sense for the power theme but then I can't make sense of the mission being a blind search.
Also on the Zack talk. Doesn't it get said somewhere that he can only see what he'll be involved in? If the cult symbols had something to do with him going missing it may not have counted as him being involved in it. It might've been a total accident of circumstance. It could be something really weird like the effect of being around the cult symbols taking longer to influence him than his foresight can see, and the influence persisting through resets. He would've been resetting against Indra for a pretty long total amount of time given what looked like an insurmountable power difference.
But anywho, speaking of Liz, I'm still hoping they can somehow be separated. Seeing as I'm reading in the comments that there's gonna be a Superhuman part 2, methinks that may happen then. Imma save my game theories until after I reach the end of the update.
