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DrakoGhoul

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Jul 13, 2018
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I'm not sure I agree with this interpretation. Consider how, when Ella fails her ceremony during her third Evo, the 4th remarks "Good for breeding". If she was half and half, I can't imagine this would be true. Since we know our MC came from parents who were nearly perfect for one specific lineage.

I think Ella is basically pure for the Third, and the ceremony would have turned her into a 50/50 split. By failing, she remains 100% Body, thus being "good for breeding".
That's not exactly as concrete as it used to be. The 4th said "suitable for birth" after saying "Born by blood". Originally, that could point to Ella being turned by the 3rd. However, MC actually fits almost perfectly. He was born by Syla, who was already a spawn of the 4th. Hence, the born by blood line. Then there's the "suitable for birth" which we can also point to the Origin. Which we know MC is suitable to birth. That seems to be the objective of the 4th's plan and we can see her during the 3rd Evolution trance with her twin waiting for the Origin to appear.

What makes it not concrete is the fact that MC didn't actually touch the liquid. So those should be memories. That's along with the fact that the 4th would already know these things about MC in real time and at that point, MC started developing his memory trait, so he can't be a failure.

So while that scene could be referring to Ella. It can also just as easily be referring to MC as well.
 

KingAgamemnon

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Aug 7, 2022
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That's not exactly as concrete as it used to be. The 4th said "suitable for birth" after saying "Born by blood". Originally, that could point to Ella being turned by the 3rd. However, MC actually fits almost perfectly. He was born by Syla, who was already a spawn of the 4th. Hence, the born by blood line. Then there's the "suitable for birth" which we can also point to the Origin. Which we know MC is suitable to birth. That seems to be the objective of the 4th's plan and we can see her during the 3rd Evolution trance with her twin waiting for the Origin to appear.

What makes it not concrete is the fact that MC didn't actually touch the liquid. So those should be memories. That's along with the fact that the 4th would already know these things about MC in real time and at that point, MC started developing his memory trait, so he can't be a failure.

So while that scene could be referring to Ella. It can also just as easily be referring to MC as well.
The idea that the 4th was talking about the MC also really doesn't make sense. Like, we see Ella deliberately fail her ceremony because she spared Chrissie, and then the 4th talks about failure. It is an extreme stretch to say that the two are not referring to the same event.
 

DrakoGhoul

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Jul 13, 2018
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The idea that the 4th was talking about the MC also really doesn't make sense. Like, we see Ella deliberately fail her ceremony because she spared Chrissie, and then the 4th talks about failure. It is an extreme stretch to say that the two are not referring to the same event.
? MC doesn't see the vision until after he touches the vial. Not during the Memory sequence of Ella. It's not a stretch at all. MC already exited the memory of the massacre by that point. From what I remember, he even mentions something about feeling the effects of the liquid through the crack of the vial.
 

Grimnir098

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Jan 27, 2021
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Thats something I don't get, if MC ís infected by either Memory or Body, why does he get both traits? Is it because the apostles want to or because of MC almost 50/50 genetics. If Michael, infected by Power, had, let's say, 70/30 Power and Aether, would he be able to manifest some Aether powers?
So the Apostles are separated into twin pairs. Authority and Power, Body and Memory, etc. Each twin pair makes up the Arbiter.
Every Apostle has its twin's trait, albeit much weaker. You see this in the MC's infection scene. He can feel Body trying to get inside his mind, although it requires contact to actually do it. Memory shapeshifts to make her body more appealing.
We also know that only one Apostle was used to infect both Moon twins, and yet they got different powers.

This means that if you get infected by an Apostle and have enough compatibility with its twin's trait, you will manifest that trait. If you have compatibility with a different trait, though, like your Michael example, you won't get that trait, since Power doesn't have Aether.

Body and Memory do want a hybrid, which is why they were satisfied with MC, but he could only become a hybrid because of he was compatible with both Body and Memory.
 

Grimnir098

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In the grand scheme of things, that's not necessarily true even if you are potentially correct in saying this.
There's enough evidence to suggest that Ella is also a half and half, or at least close.

1. Ella says that she and MC are the same.
2. Ella has dealings with Memory who wants a half and half.
3. Ella is deemed a failure by Memory, not Body.
4. Ella says that she was "never good with Memory", which points to having some, probably minuscule, part of the trait.

Ella has obviously a better version of the Body trait than MC, but if we go by compatibility percentages, she shouldn't be that much more compatible, not to the point of being a prodigy like she is presented to be.
There's also the idea that Apostle spawns are fundamentally different which may affect how this thing works. There's a good chance that MC with only a single trait would be significantly better at it, despite his 50-50 genetic makeup.

In any case, after lurking a bit on the streams and asking WW about stuff like that, it seems like a lot of things are either intentionally misleading or just plain wrong. Syla's words should not be taken seriously without confirmation from another source.
It does seem like MC was significantly more compatible with Memory. Ella couldn't become perfect even at level 5, and required a trial at level 3 to become perfect.
The MC, as Ella points out in a dead end, was perfect from the start. He'd already manifested the full trait at level 1.

I think you're overestimating how much compatibility she had with Memory, and thus underestimating how much compatibility she had with Body. We don't actually know how much you need to manifest both traits. Isn't it possible Ella had 10% Memory and 90% Body? That's a significant gap between her and the MC.
 

KyngC

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Aug 21, 2022
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Its really easy to see ella's position this way if you change out a couple of words.

First, Ella will be remade into Edward.
Edward loves to rape.
Edward goes and rapes innocent people
Edward makes other people attack the rape victims
Edward summons hordes of rapists to rape people
Edward dies the death of a dog


People on f95 claiming Edward was a real hero and died a true martyr.

just fucking lol
This feels like a reference I'm not getting
 

KingAgamemnon

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Aug 7, 2022
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? MC doesn't see the vision until after he touches the vial. Not during the Memory sequence of Ella. It's not a stretch at all. MC already exited the memory of the massacre by that point. From what I remember, he even mentions something about feeling the effects of the liquid through the crack of the vial.
I meant its like this: MC sees the memory of Ella failing the ceremony; MC leaves the memory; 4th chimes in like "yeah she failed, but she's still good breeding stock, so she still has a use to me".
 

DannyLucifer

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Jul 5, 2018
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I just saw the scene between Mia and Jake and Jesus Fucking Christ! Someone told me a few days ago that Ella being evil or not was a "big" debate here, and I have only one question... how? This c*nt is beyond deplorable, killing people yeah but the amount of manipulation this bitch does is beyond evil playing with a life is far more evil than ending one. Y'all on Ella train should get a psyche eval... jesus
 

Grimnir098

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I just saw the scene between Mia and Jake and Jesus Fucking Christ! Someone told me a few days ago that Ella being evil or not was a "big" debate here, and I have only one question... how? This c*nt is beyond deplorable, killing people yeah but the amount of manipulation this bitch does is beyond evil playing with a life is far more evil than ending one. Y'all on Ella train should get a psyche eval... jesus
Which scene? The one on the beach? Because I don't recall any scene between Mia and Jake that is Ella's fault.
Unless you mean everything Jake does is Ella's fault because she made him a superhuman?
 

DannyLucifer

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Which scene? The one on the beach? Because I don't recall any scene between Mia and Jake that is Ella's fault.
Unless you mean everything Jake does is Ella's fault because she made him a superhuman?
Jesus you can't be that naive right?
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I know my fellow basement dwellers are socially inapt but surely by not this much where you can't say you're a fiddle.
 

shujuku

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Oct 11, 2023
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Jesus you can't be that naive right?
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I know my fellow basement dwellers are socially inapt but surely by not this much where you can't say you're a fiddle.
Yeah I dont get why people simp so hard for Ella, I literally hate her because she simply uses us as a tool and doesnt give a shit about what happens to us or our close ones.
 

DannyLucifer

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Jul 5, 2018
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Also, the MC is ASTRONOMICALLY dumb! My guy goes to the c*nts house, sees the paper with all the names, some of which he recognizes, like Micheal, gets confirmation that yes she has been looking for people to infect, letter finds out from the man that yes ella did give him a pill, saw ella on campus meaning she has access to it, then the massacre happens and MC still cant connect the dots that shes responsible...
 

DannyLucifer

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Jul 5, 2018
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Yeah I dont get why people simp so hard for Ella, I literally hate her because she simply uses us as a tool and doesnt give a shit about what happens to us or our close ones.
Yeah, and why are there are forced scenes with her? No I don't want to get a boobjob from a homicidal maniac. Your choices don't matter in the slightest. And FYI I haven't picked a single option to side with her, I even picked up the WT to see what I was doing to get scenes with her and MC completely forgets all the negative opinions, then I realized nah it wasn't my ESL reading comprehension just shit writing. And the thing is I wouldn't even be that mad if I wasn't given the choice to begin with.
 
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Grimnir098

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Jan 27, 2021
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Jesus you can't be that naive right?
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I know my fellow basement dwellers are socially inapt but surely by not this much where you can't say you're a fiddle.
Not saying manipulating people is good, but I'm pretty cautious about labelling people evil, and we still don't know what Ella's endgame is. So long as it's a good outcome (edit: i.e. goal), I don't think you can unequivocally call her evil. I generally reserve that for people who have negative goals, like genocide, or neutral goals that they reach through negative means, like serial killing (the goal is pleasure).

There's no reason to think Jake would have fucked up Daryl's brain the way he did Mia. That only happened because of the stress of Mia finding out his secret and deciding to tell the MC.

She didn't use Mia as a hostage, she used her as a bargaining chip. Ella will fix Jake's mistake if Jake does what she wants. She isn't threatening to harm Mia, just to not help her, and she's under no obligation to help Mia.

Also, the MC is ASTRONOMICALLY dumb! My guy goes to the c*nts house, sees the paper with all the names, some of which he recognizes, like Micheal, gets confirmation that yes she has been looking for people to infect, letter finds out from the man that yes ella did give him a pill, saw ella on campus meaning she has access to it, then the massacre happens and MC still cant connect the dots that shes responsible...
The MC isn't dumb, he just doesn't think, which ultimately stems from his apathy. It's not that he can't put the pieces together, he just doesn't feel like it.
 
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