VN Ren'Py Superhuman [v0.99999b] [WeirdWorld]

[as22]

I believe I had read this same comment somewhere in this thread before, but the writer should have had Tiffany and Claudia in the monster world arc instead of Amber and Liz.

Essentially, Liz and Ambers change into superhumans felt forced for plot convenience to bring them into the fray. Which is disappointing considering we already had two characters, Claudia and Tiffany that were FAR closer to the action than either Amber or Liz were. Characters that haven't had enough development compared to how frequently they appeared at the start of the game.
Tiffany already wanted to become a superhuman way back in the Valravn arc?


Adding to this, Liz was far too passive and stoic as a heroine for this arc and her story as a love interest didn't really go anywhere. Her entire characterisation amounted to "yeah, ok" "whatever", after being thrown into another world with no prospects of getting out. If the characters themselves don't care, how do we the readers, possibly feel any sense of apprehension or dread over their circumstances?
The only time I felt apprehension was at the immediate start of the arc when they had to escape the ocean. After that, things fell into a sort of lull as nothing posed a threat to the team.
It felt like a trip through Disneyland instead of an "adventure" the arc was supposed to be.

On the other hand Claudia would have been the perfect foil to express these emotions. We know she is emotionally expressive compared to her sister.
All the other characters took everything way too good. Alice was already a repressed killer like michael, and derek is super happygolucky alongside the stoic MC. The only reason amber was scared was because she thought she lost her sister, but apart from that, the character's emotions over the situation were never really explored in depth.

Having Amber and Liz captured by SIN during this entire arc would have been good motivation for the MC to get back to earth and "save the twins". We could have had an interesting internal conflict over getting back to earth as soon as possible, and staying to help find Michael with Alice.
Aside from the entire eclipse thing going on during the arc, something that doesn't concern the MC, there's no real "urgency" to get back as quickly as possible, which was lacking.
A huge amount would have to be rewritten. And Amber and Liz would have had to stay captured during the Cole fight.
I don't remember if it was ever mentioned what Tiffany and Claudia were doing during the MC's SIN infiltration arc?

 

[Tamwyn]

I seriously feel like we are losing the "power" part in "dark power fantasy" here. When the whole memory flashback happened, i imagined we would be able to at least copy some of those abilities to some extent, making up the ground for when the MC ever decided to go murder hobo and kill some of the stronger people, like Nico, Bernhardt, giant demon lady, or even freaking cole and his emo friends.

Now, it seems like that wont even be an option, and we are being shoehorned into a "good" guy thats A-ok with being threatened, used, kidnapped and manipulated by the people at H.E.R.O, because realistically there is NO feasible way the body (or memory) side alone could ever touch people who could detonate into their own version of a sun. We are so heavily nerfed in comparison to almost EVERY other character that we require help to defeat almost every main boss past freaking kenny. Is this going to be one of those "friendship gives me strength!" endings, where only the main bad guy dies while everyone else who fucked you and your friends over gets away with it because they had a phat behind?

 

[Grimnir098]

Adding to this, Liz was far too passive and stoic as a heroine for this arc and her story as a love interest didn't really go anywhere. Her entire characterisation amounted to "yeah, ok" "whatever", after being thrown into another world with no prospects of getting out. If the characters themselves don't care, how do we the readers, possibly feel any sense of apprehension or dread over their circumstances?
The only time I felt apprehension was at the immediate start of the arc when they had to escape the ocean. After that, things fell into a sort of lull as nothing posed a threat to the team.
It felt like a trip through Disneyland instead of an "adventure" the arc was supposed to be.

What the fuck are you talking about? If you don't give a shit about Amber and Liz and their circumstances, whatever, but how can you say Liz's entire characterisation is just "yeah, ok" when it's made abundantly clear in this very arc the depth of her love and care for her sister? We see the toll their separation is taking on both of them very clearly. Were you not paying attention at all?

 

[Jonathan Y]

I believe I had read this same comment somewhere in this thread before, but the writer should have had Tiffany and Claudia in the monster world arc instead of Amber and Liz.

Essentially, Liz and Ambers change into superhumans felt forced for plot convenience to bring them into the fray. Which is disappointing considering we already had two characters, Claudia and Tiffany that were FAR closer to the action than either Amber or Liz were. Characters that haven't had enough development compared to how frequently they appeared at the start of the game.
Tiffany already wanted to become a superhuman way back in the Valravn arc?


Adding to this, Liz was far too passive and stoic as a heroine for this arc and her story as a love interest didn't really go anywhere. Her entire characterisation amounted to "yeah, ok" "whatever", after being thrown into another world with no prospects of getting out. If the characters themselves don't care, how do we the readers, possibly feel any sense of apprehension or dread over their circumstances?
The only time I felt apprehension was at the immediate start of the arc when they had to escape the ocean. After that, things fell into a sort of lull as nothing posed a threat to the team.
It felt like a trip through Disneyland instead of an "adventure" the arc was supposed to be.

On the other hand Claudia would have been the perfect foil to express these emotions. We know she is emotionally expressive compared to her sister.
All the other characters took everything way too good. Alice was already a repressed killer like michael, and derek is super happygolucky alongside the stoic MC. The only reason amber was scared was because she thought she lost her sister, but apart from that, the character's emotions over the situation were never really explored in depth.

Having Amber and Liz captured by SIN during this entire arc would have been good motivation for the MC to get back to earth and "save the twins". We could have had an interesting internal conflict over getting back to earth as soon as possible, and staying to help find Michael with Alice.
Aside from the entire eclipse thing going on during the arc, something that doesn't concern the MC, there's no real "urgency" to get back as quickly as possible, which was lacking.
A huge amount would have to be rewritten. And Amber and Liz would have had to stay captured during the Cole fight.
I don't remember if it was ever mentioned what Tiffany and Claudia were doing during the MC's SIN infiltration arc?

SPOILERS :

Personaly, I disagree. I feel like we both read different versions of the game, I thought Liz showed significantly more emotion in this arc than you're giving her credit for. There are multiple scenes where she shows extreme worry, regret and sorrow over their fates. She blames herself for their situation due to her wish to become superhumans, and she is desperate to fix their situation, as shown where she tries to steal Deryl's evolution serum.

Liz and Amber turning into superhumans and the way they did felt like a better plotpoint to me than anything involving Claudia and Tiffany. First of all, none of the main characters are as emotionaly invested in Tiffany and Claudia, they have some childhood past with Michael and Alice, sure, but they are not nearly as important to the Mc and Deryl as is Liz and Amber.

Liz and Amber becoming superhumans holds a lot of other plot threads, firstly, it's ofc a mechanic to evolve their own characters, secondly I liked how gut wrenching it was for when the Mc and Deryl failed to save them, all their promises, all their commitment to keeping the two girls safe, and they failed tragicaly. Tanos mutilating them whilst they pleaded for their lives ? The Mc seeing Liz's severed head in Cole's hand ? Deryl blaming himself for his shortcomings ? To me all those felt very emotional and tragic, and I doubt those kinds of impacts could have been achieved with Claudia and Tiffany, who, again, are nobodies in comparison to Liz and Amber, I mean Tiffany fucked the Mc a couple of times, and Claudia is naive and innocent, sure, but Liz and Amber mean so much more to both Deryl and the Mc.

 

[Jonathan Y]

What the fuck are you talking about? If you don't give a shit about Amber and Liz and their circumstances, whatever, but how can you say Liz's entire characterisation is just "yeah, ok" when it's made abundantly clear in this very arc the depth of her love and care for her sister? We see the toll their separation is taking on both of them very clearly. Were you not paying attention at all?

Agree, 100%.
There were so many scenes that got to me, I can't believe he called Liz in this arc unemotional, wtf.

 

[as22]

If you don't give a shit about Amber and Liz and their circumstances

This is a strawman. Don't try to bait with bad-faith arguments.

but how can you say Liz's entire characterisation is just "yeah, ok" when it's made abundantly clear in this very arc the depth of her love and care for her sister?

My post literally says "Liz was far too passive and stoic as a heroine for this arc". Which is true. She's emotionally stunted.
Tell me where liz's romance went with the MC during this arc? You can't because it didn't develop at all.
And we already knew about her "love and care for her sister". You do realize we, the readers already went through an arc centered around liz and amber, and how Liz would literally leave college and follow Amber anywhere she goes just because she wants to be with her, and is utterly uninterested in her own life's circumstances? We went through the SIN infiltration arc which already touched on all of this.

We the readers already KNOW all of this. We know the twins love each other. You can make the argument that you enjoyed the content, but my post isn't about that. My post is about how it would have been better if we saw other characters get development and screentime, aka Tiffany and Claudia. As we hardly know anything about these two.

none of the main characters are as emotionaly invested in Tiffany and Claudia

Of course. If you don't write about or develop the characters, nobody is going to be invested in them.

SPOILERS :
Liz and Amber becoming superhumans holds a lot of other plot threads, firstly, it's ofc a mechanic to evolve their own characters, secondly I liked how gut wrenching it was for when the Mc and Deryl failed to save them, all their promises, all their commitment to keeping the two girls safe, and they failed tragicaly. Tanos mutilating them whilst they pleaded for their lives ? The Mc seeing Liz's severed head in Cole's hand? Deryl blaming himself for his shortcomings ? To me all those felt very emotional and tragic, and I doubt those kinds of impacts could have been achieved with Claudia and Tiffany, who, again, are nobodies in comparison to Liz and Amber, I mean Tiffany fucked the Mc a couple of times, and Claudia is naive and innocent, sure, but Liz and Amber mean so much more to both Deryl and the Mc.

This is all content in the SIN infiltration arc. My post is about the monster world. Nothing says that you can't have the MC go through this development after he returns.
You say "To me all those felt very emotional and tragic, and I doubt those kinds of impacts could have been achieved with Claudia and Tiffany", but how would you have any impact with them if you don't even write the development in the first place? Tiffany was a pivotal character early on in the game, on the level of Alice, even for a short time. She was sidelined, perhaps for being too similar to Alice, but calling her a "nobody" is objectively wrong.

 

[Tamwyn]

This is a strawman. Don't try to bait with bad-faith arguments.



My post literally says "Liz was far too passive and stoic as a heroine for this arc". Which is true. She's emotionally stunted.
Tell me where liz's romance went with the MC during this arc? You can't because it didn't develop at all.
And we already knew about her "love and care for her sister". You do realize we, the readers already went through an arc centered around liz and amber, and how Liz would literally leave college and follow Amber anywhere she goes just because she wants to be with her, and is utterly uninterested in her own life's circumstances? We went through the SIN infiltration arc which already touched on all of this.

We the readers already KNOW all of this. We know the twins love each other. You can make the argument that you enjoyed the content, but my post isn't about that. My post is about how it would have been better if we saw other characters get development and screentime, aka Tiffany and Claudia. As we hardly know anything about these two.



Of course. If you don't write about or develop the characters, nobody is going to be invested in them.




This is all content in the SIN infiltration arc. My post is about the monster world. Nothing says that you can't have the MC go through this development after he returns.
You say "To me all those felt very emotional and tragic, and I doubt those kinds of impacts could have been achieved with Claudia and Tiffany", but how would you have any impact with them if you don't even write the development in the first place? Tiffany was a pivotal character early on in the game, on the level of Alice, even for a short time. She was sidelined, perhaps for being too similar to Alice, but calling her a "nobody" is objectively wrong.

Do we even have time for claudia and tiffany development anymore? Supposedly this upcoming arc is the last one. It would have to be a very long one to convincingly develope either character, let alone 2.

 

[as22]

Do we even have time anymore for claudia and tiffany development anymore? Supposedly this upcoming arc is the last one. It would have to be a very long one to convincingly develope either character, let alone 2.

Probably not. Aside from the main team and pivotal HERO agents, the remaining screen time is going to be given to people like Emily and Christie. People have been theorizing that she's going to be given the 7th, which will take a large part of the content. As for christie, the plot for her is slowly putting her on a path of downfall so who knows

Which is why it's a shame that they weren't given the monster arc.
People in this thread like KingAgamemnon were theorising that Tiffany was related to the Skypeople. So there was a lot of possible content that could have been written around her
I forgot which apostle line Claudia was going to be turned by

 

[Jonathan Y]

This is a strawman. Don't try to bait with bad-faith arguments.



My post literally says "Liz was far too passive and stoic as a heroine for this arc". Which is true. She's emotionally stunted.
Tell me where liz's romance went with the MC during this arc? You can't because it didn't develop at all.
And we already knew about her "love and care for her sister". You do realize we, the readers already went through an arc centered around liz and amber, and how Liz would literally leave college and follow Amber anywhere she goes just because she wants to be with her, and is utterly uninterested in her own life's circumstances? We went through the SIN infiltration arc which already touched on all of this.

We the readers already KNOW all of this. We know the twins love each other. You can make the argument that you enjoyed the content, but my post isn't about that. My post is about how it would have been better if we saw other characters get development and screentime, aka Tiffany and Claudia. As we hardly know anything about these two.



Of course. If you don't write about or develop the characters, nobody is going to be invested in them.




This is all content in the SIN infiltration arc. My post is about the monster world. Nothing says that you can't have the MC go through this development after he returns.
You say "To me all those felt very emotional and tragic, and I doubt those kinds of impacts could have been achieved with Claudia and Tiffany", but how would you have any impact with them if you don't even write the development in the first place? Tiffany was a pivotal character early on in the game, on the level of Alice, even for a short time. She was sidelined, perhaps for being too similar to Alice, but calling her a "nobody" is objectively wrong.

I mean that Amber and Liz have a history with the Mc and Deryl, sure the writer could have dedicated who knows how much content to building a relationship beetwen the main cast with Tiffany and Claudia, but why bother ? Liz and Amber already hold a higher position in the Mc and Deryl's lives due to their childhood, idk why you're so fixated on the other two.

''Tiffany was a pivotal character early on in the game, on the level of Alice''.
Oof, hard disagree, sorry, comparing her to Alice is in my opinion laughable. Tiffany's role was a minor one, introducing the Mc to the HERO plotline, but she was hardly a pivotal character in it, and events would have played out mostly the same without her. Frankly, you are clealy very biased, you dislike or don't care for Liz/Amber and in contrast are very fixated on Tiffany and Claudia, so your arguments are really one sided.

And also, it's very ironic to complain about Liz's blank ( although that is surface level, if you care to look, there is nuance to her character ) personality, meanwhile you praise Tiffany, whom I find extremely boring, and is more non-expressive than Liz.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

I seriously feel like we are losing the "power" part in "dark power fantasy" here. When the whole memory flashback happened, i imagined we would be able to at least copy some of those abilities to some extent, making up the ground for when the MC ever decided to go murder hobo and kill some of the stronger people, like Nico, Bernhardt, giant demon lady, or even freaking cole and his emo friends.

Now, it seems like that wont even be an option, and we are being shoehorned into a "good" guy thats A-ok with being threatened, used, kidnapped and manipulated by the people at H.E.R.O, because realistically there is NO feasible way the body (or memory) side alone could ever touch people who could detonate into their own version of a sun. We are so heavily nerfed in comparison to almost EVERY other character that we require help to defeat almost every main boss past freaking kenny. Is this going to be one of those "friendship gives me strength!" endings, where only the main bad guy dies while everyone else who fucked you and your friends over gets away with it because they had a phat behind?

From what I heard a while back, WW said the whole "friendship is the answer" thing was only really for the MW arc, and that MC is going to have some rude awakenings as shit hits the fan in the future.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

Probably not. Aside from the main team and pivotal HERO agents, the remaining screen time is going to be given to people like Emily and Christie. People have been theorizing that she's going to be given the 7th, which will take a large part of the content. As for christie, the plot for her is slowly putting her on a path of downfall so who knows

Which is why it's a shame that they weren't given the monster arc.
People in this thread like KingAgamemnon were theorising that Tiffany was related to the Skypeople. So there was a lot of possible content that could have been written around her
I forgot which apostle line Claudia was going to be turned by

Unfortunately WW seemed to have deconfirmed this. Also Claudia was turned by the dead Time avatar. WW mentioned wanting to start showing how crazy strong time powers are in the future.

Do we even have time for claudia and tiffany development anymore? Supposedly this upcoming arc is the last one. It would have to be a very long one to convincingly develope either character, let alone 2.

At this point, I'm taking the whole "last arc" thing with a grain of salt. I think it's the last arc before version 1.0, but I've also heard WW reference future arcs, so I think it's just a way of resetting the version count so he doesn't need to keep adding 9s.

 

[Tamwyn]

From what I heard a while back, WW said the whole "friendship is the answer" thing was only really for the MW arc, and that MC is going to have some rude awakenings as shit hits the fan in the future.

I hope so, because this has been peeking its head around the corner for awhile now, much longer then MW. Unless MC truly explodes in power level, he will be unable to defeat the heavier people (like Indra, for example) by himself, which makes me feel any "darker" endings or outcomes are going to be stuck in bad ends.

 

[as22]

I mean that Amber and Liz have a history with the Mc and Deryl, sure the writer could have dedicated who knows how much content to building a relationship beetwen the main cast with Tiffany and Claudia, but why bother ? Liz and Amber already hold a higher position in the Mc and Deryl's lives due to their childhood, idk why you're so fixated on the other two.

''Tiffany was a pivotal character early on in the game, on the level of Alice''.
Oof, hard disagree, sorry, comparing her to Alice is in my opinion laughable. Tiffany's role was a minor one, introducing the Mc to the HERO plotline, but she was hardly a pivotal character in it, and events would have played out mostly the same without her. Frankly, you are clealy very biased, you dislike or don't care for Liz/Amber and in contrast are very fixated on Tiffany and Claudia, so your arguments are really one sided.

And also, it's very ironic to complain about Liz's blank ( although that is surface level, if you care to look, there is nuance to her character ) personality, meanwhile you praise Tiffany, whom I find extremely boring, and is more non-expressive than Liz.

Im not sure why your trying this hard to strawman my arguments into the fact that I for some reason "dislike or don't care for Liz/Amber". They're fictional characters. I don't favour either pair. We already know all there is to know about Amber and Liz by the point they fall into the monster world and there's more interesting content yet to be explored about the other two. It's as simple as that.

Tiffany's role was a minor one, introducing the Mc to the HERO plotline

Not true. We get introduced to her before even Michael. They start studying together and we learn of the "ninja" breaking into college before he even really talks to Alice and does her fetch quest. The two were pretty equal for content in the beginning if you actually go back and play it. I think the MC might even spend more time studying with Tiffany than he spends with Alice in the early parts of the game.

If WW had written a longer "MC vs hero" arc that showed him going against HERO with Tiffany before they inevitably realised the full breadth of the organisation and were taken in, then she could have had a much larger part in the story.
As I said, I think she was too similar to Alice in characterisation, which is why she was sidelined.

Tiffany, whom I find extremely boring, and is more non-expressive than Liz.

You can't be serious. Tiffany's motivations are far more interesting than Liz's and Amber's are. She literally wants to kill her father, one of the most politically powerful people in the world and the top of HERO. She organised the murder of her fiancé in cold blood to further her gains. She literally sells her sister to you if you choose that option. You could argue that Claudia is "boring" but not Tiffany.

Unfortunately WW seemed to have deconfirmed this. Also Claudia was turned by the dead Time avatar. WW mentioned wanting to start showing how crazy strong time powers are in the future.

The one that Ella brings up in the MW?

 

[Chris20]

Well, i finally manage to get to the end of the current update, i replayed the whole story all over again because i did not rebember shit from the last time i played this game, and i got to say:

1. The base story line and lore in general is good and have potential to compete with mainstream universes like Marvel and DC, all the NSFW content are just an bonus at this point.

2. The moral choices are mostly flavour in some occacions, for example, the only real impact that they make is the amount of corruption that you have and maybe the public opinion of you when your idendity get leaked (that is, if you kill Demi and the police forces that try to arrest you i think), but a lot of the moral choices feels something like ¨kill/eat this random dude or knock him out¨. That, and the only relevant enemy we can spare is Jake, we will see how that will play out.

3. Some of you may get impatient about the MC not reaching his fourth evolution or the inability of actually chose a faction or at the very least not being manipulated by the people at H.E.R.O. But Meh, i get it, i think that the issue here is that the MC learning curve is more difficult than other characters, he is the combination of Body and Mind, wich mean he has to work way more to grown into his full potential, it does not help the fact that he has to learn almost everything by himself and being forced to fight against stronger oponents all the time without knowing shit and without preparation, but he is far from helpless, he defeated Cole by himself, a level 3 with years of experience and he his able to kill an A class monster without much trouble; so i think we are reaching the peak of his level 3 if we are not already there. Also, it is still too early to decide what faction we will favour, the MC just got back to earth and is trying to learn what the fuck is going on.

 

[Jonathan Y]

Im not sure why your trying this hard to strawman my arguments into the fact that I for some reason "dislike or don't care for Liz/Amber". They're fictional characters. I don't favour either pair. We already know all there is to know about Amber and Liz by the point they fall into the monster world and there's more interesting content yet to be explored about the other two. It's as simple as that.



Not true. We get introduced to her before even Michael. They start studying together and we learn of the "ninja" breaking into college before he even really talks to Alice and does her fetch quest. The two were pretty equal for content in the beginning if you actually go back and play it. I think the MC might even spend more time studying with Tiffany than he spends with Alice in the early parts of the game.

If WW had written a longer "MC vs hero" arc that showed him going against HERO with Tiffany before they inevitably realised the full breadth of the organisation and were taken in, then she could have had a much larger part in the story.
As I said, I think she was too similar to Alice in characterisation, which is why she was sidelined.


You can't be serious. Tiffany's motivations are far more interesting than Liz's and Amber's are. She literally wants to kill her father, one of the most politically powerful people in the world and the top of HERO. She organised the murder of her fiancé in cold blood to further her gains. She literally sells her sister to you if you choose that option. You could argue that Claudia is "boring" but not Tiffany.



The one that Ella brings up in the MW?

'' We get introduced to her before even Michael. They start studying together and we learn of the "ninja" breaking into college before he even really talks to Alice and does her fetch quest. ''

And how does that in any way make her, in your own words, a ''pivotal character, even more than Alice '' ? It's just filler content in no way essential to the greater plot, the only thing Tiffany does is a early introduction to HERO, but like I said, that is in now way essential, as things would have played out the exact same way without her.

''If WW had written a longer "MC vs hero" arc that showed him going against HERO with Tiffany before they inevitably realised the full breadth of the organisation and were taken in, then she could have had a much larger part in the story.''

And why would WW had wasted time doing that ? Just to have the Mc humour Tiffany's hide-and-seek, play detective games ?
Like you said, literaly the only midly interesting thing about Tiffany is her wanting to kill her father, that's it, she is a blank plank of wood otherwise, who knows why she orchestrated her fiancees murder, but that is still irrelevant to the greater plot and/or anything regarding the main cast . You say she is more interesting than Liz and Amber ? Deam on, you gotta be kidding.

I am glad WW decided to give Liz and Amber as much content as he did instead of those two.

 

[KingAgamemnon]

Im not sure why your trying this hard to strawman my arguments into the fact that I for some reason "dislike or don't care for Liz/Amber". They're fictional characters. I don't favour either pair. We already know all there is to know about Amber and Liz by the point they fall into the monster world and there's more interesting content yet to be explored about the other two. It's as simple as that.



Not true. We get introduced to her before even Michael. They start studying together and we learn of the "ninja" breaking into college before he even really talks to Alice and does her fetch quest. The two were pretty equal for content in the beginning if you actually go back and play it. I think the MC might even spend more time studying with Tiffany than he spends with Alice in the early parts of the game.

If WW had written a longer "MC vs hero" arc that showed him going against HERO with Tiffany before they inevitably realised the full breadth of the organisation and were taken in, then she could have had a much larger part in the story.
As I said, I think she was too similar to Alice in characterisation, which is why she was sidelined.


You can't be serious. Tiffany's motivations are far more interesting than Liz's and Amber's are. She literally wants to kill her father, one of the most politically powerful people in the world and the top of HERO. She organised the murder of her fiancé in cold blood to further her gains. She literally sells her sister to you if you choose that option. You could argue that Claudia is "boring" but not Tiffany.



The one that Ella brings up in the MW?

I believe that was the Chosen, not the Avatar.

 

[Tamwyn]

Well, i finally manage to get to the end of the current update, i replayed the whole story all over again because i did not rebember shit from the last time i played this game, and i got to say:

1. The base story line and lore in general is good and have potential to compete with mainstream universes like Marvel and DC, all the NSFW content are just an bonus at this point.

2. The moral choices are mostly flavour in some occacions, for example, the only real impact that they make is the amount of corruption that you have and maybe the public opinion of you when your idendity get leaked (that is, if you kill Demi and the police forces that try to arrest you i think), but a lot of the moral choices feels something like ¨kill/eat this random dude or knock him out¨. That, and the only relevant enemy we can spare is Jake, we will see how that will play out.

3. Some of you may get impatient about the MC not reaching his fourth evolution or the inability of actually chose a faction or at the very least not being manipulated by the people at H.E.R.O. But Meh, i get it, i think that the issue here is that the MC learning curve is more difficult than other characters, he is the combination of Body and Mind, wich mean he has to work way more to grown into his full potential, it does not help the fact that he has to learn almost everything by himself and being forced to fight against stronger oponents all the time without knowing shit and without preparation, but he is far from helpless, he defeated Cole by himself, a level 3 with years of experience and he his able to kill an A class monster without much trouble; so i think we are reaching the peak of his level 3 if we are not already there. Also, it is still too early to decide what faction we will favour, the MC just got back to earth and is trying to learn what the fuck is going on.

He did NOT defeat cole by himself, MC had a weapon and fire support from deryl and amber hit him with a strength stealing wave, even in the perfect fight. If either of those people weren't there, MC would have lost. Even with their help, he would have lost if he didn't have an extra tail. Literally, almost every fight is like that, even with perfect fights and stats, and MC being physically superior, like the Jake fight. Hell, even after poisoning the crap out of Jake with a sneak attack, MC still almost lost the fight, and he was a spawn not even equipped for fighting.

 

[Chris20]

He did NOT defeat cole by himself, MC had a weapon and fire support from deryl and amber hit him with a strength stealing wave, even in the perfect fight. If either of those people weren't there, MC would have lost. Even with their help, he would have lost if he didn't have an extra tail. Literally, almost every fight is like that, even with perfect fights and stats, and MC being physically superior, like the Jake fight. Hell, even after poisoning the crap out of Jake with a sneak attack, MC still almost lost the fight, and he was a spawn not even equipped for fighting.

The MC defeated Cole when he was a level 3. The nature of his powers demand adaptation and versatility, even Ella said that the MC does not have an special high offensive or defensive capabilities; his adaptation, creativity and combination of mind and body is the essence of his strategy. For now, the only idea we can get about his full potential are his mother powers.

 

[as22]

And how does that in any way make her, in your own words, a ''pivotal character, even more than Alice '' ? It's just filler content in no way essential to the greater plot, the only thing Tiffany does is a early introduction to HERO, but like I said, that is in now way essential, as things would have played out the exact same way without her.

You can say that about Alice's random fetch quests just as much about Tiffany's scenes back then. She's the one who ties in HERO to the main plot, introduces the MC to Dexter, which then gives him his standing in HERO. She was an important character.
Your talking in hindsight as you know how it all played out and the direction WW took the story. But for anyone who played through the game during each release in 2021 they could have easily thought that Tiffany would become a major love interest just as much as Alice was before her arc.

literaly the only midly interesting thing about Tiffany is her wanting to kill her father, that's it, she is a blank plank of wood otherwise.

"Literally the only midly interesting thing about Liz is the fact that she's a lazy genius, apart from that shes a blank plank of wood" You can do this for any character. So fucking disingenuous.

My entire point was that if you don't input these characters into the story for major arc's, they're not going to be developed. Given that WW wants to give them top-tier powers and even teased the readers with a dream sequence of the MC marrying Claudia as if she was a love interest, they need plot development. The chance for this was the MW arc.

I am glad WW decided to give Liz and Amber as much content as he did instead of those two.

Seems like it's you who is emotionally invested into certain heroines and can't think rationally.

 

[Tamwyn]

The MC defeated Cole when he was a level 3.

Ah yes, the intro where it makes you feel like you are strong, only for your enemy to get a sudden boost, often from evolution. Which had happend for both the klaus and the deryl fights before this.