VN Ren'Py SWM: The Lurking Shadow [v2.0] [Mortze]

[Mortze]

You're not wrong. Correcting grammar and typos is one thing. The use of "suggested prose" appears to be very heavy in the back half of that update.

I think most people could understand you being a non-native English speaker. I don't think anyone is expecting something they're downloading from this website to be The Grapes of Wrath. But we can do better than AI word diarrhoea, surely?

Do better? I must most humbly disagree.
The difference in text from Episode 1 and Episode 2 is blatant in my opinion, due to using AI to help make the text way richer and grammatically correct. I do not have the ability to come up with synonyms, metaphors, and parables in a language that isn't my own, and that may be due to my lack of experience in reading English novels.

You may not like AI prose and I totally get that. Some may not like my genuine English form from Episode 1 or Pandora because it's clumsy, childish and totally wrong at times.
When it comes to taste you and everyone else are entitled to your opinion.

But it's WRONG to state that AI wrote the story. In creative work, writing a story imply defining the plot, the theme, the tone, the emotions, the characters, the whole narrative, and let me tell you, AI had nothing to do with any of that.

You may perhaps not know it but I always make the pictures first. The writing comes after. This means that I know what the scene will be about, what the characters are saying, feeling, and doing, before any word is put on "paper".
Then I write a draft, dialogues and descriptions. And only then AI comes in to embelish and correct.
It's a tool.
You are entitled to not like it as much as someone not liking 3D rendering instead of real painting.

AI did not wrote the story.

 

[Tlaero]

I think most people could understand you being a non-native English speaker. I don't think anyone is expecting something they're downloading from this website to be The Grapes of Wrath. But we can do better than AI word diarrhoea, surely?

I suspect it's as hard for a non-native speaker to recognize "AI speak" as it would be to write it. The problem with the phrases that you're objecting to is fairly subtle. I certainly wouldn't be able to tell if they were written in a language I wasn't fluent in.

If you want to be helpful, post a snippet or two of the parts that really bother you, describe why they're bad, and suggest alternatives. Make it a teachable moment.

Tlaero

 

[AmanRocky]

You're not wrong. Correcting grammar and typos is one thing. The use of "suggested prose" appears to be very heavy in the back half of that update.

I think most people could understand you being a non-native English speaker. I don't think anyone is expecting something they're downloading from this website to be The Grapes of Wrath. But we can do better than AI word diarrhoea, surely?

But doesn't your comment represent that it's not only AI that can spel out word diarrhoea? As folks who have experienced this story over the course of time, and who are well versed with the quality of Tora Productions, your comment would the only diarrhoea I can identify so far.

 

[Ferlucio]

Do better? I must most humbly disagree.
The difference in text from Episode 1 and Episode 2 is blatant in my opinion, due to using AI to help make the text way richer and grammatically correct. I do not have the ability to come up with synonyms, metaphors, and parables in a language that isn't my own, and that may be due to my lack of experience in reading English novels.

You may not like AI prose and I totally get that. Some may not like my genuine English form from Episode 1 or Pandora because it's clumsy, childish and totally wrong at times.
When it comes to taste you and everyone else are entitled to your opinion.

But it's WRONG to state that AI wrote the story. In creative work, writing a story imply defining the plot, the theme, the tone, the emotions, the characters, the whole narrative, and let me tell you, AI had nothing to do with any of that.

You may perhaps not know it but I always make the pictures first. The writing comes after. This means that I know what the scene will be about, what the characters are saying, feeling, and doing, before any word is put on "paper".
Then I write a draft, dialogues and descriptions. And only then AI comes in to embelish and correct.
It's a tool.
You are entitled to not like it as much as someone not liking 3D rendering instead of real painting.

AI did not wrote the story.

Any other projects you've got in the works or is all focus on this one now?

 

[Tlaero]

Mortze and I mostly work together, but sometimes do side projects on our own. SWM is one of Mortze's side projects. Right now, we're working together on other things.

Tlaero

 

[fam_daddy]

I'm so glad this game is getting updated after years

 

[cxx]

I'm so glad this game is getting updated after years

well there aren't many adult sw-games with good story.

 

[Petro28]

Played the update a few weeks ago and really enjoyed the story. Very interesting where it will go further. If I am honest the sex scenes in this update didn't do it for me, I did not find them interesting, for me it seemed like characters didn't have sex for fun but mostly because they had to, because it's that kind of game. The only exception is sex with Kleio it was natural and spontaneous. I can't say for sure what didn't work for me but something felt wrong in other sex scenes. I am sorry I can't be more specific. Visuals are great as always. Mortze keep up a good work.
Why I am so late with my poor excuse of a review, honestly because I was playing other games but also because I am slowly replying Elsavers games and oh my I am enjoying that. I am currently playing Redemption for Jessica best game with best girl (Sarah. Although she doesn't swing my way she just the best I love her character and hope she comes back) Jessica is best girl of the main girls. And guys that first bj scene in the game is still the one of the hottest bj in adult vn I've seen. The feel of that scene is what I was missing in episode two. It was spontaneous and our characters had fun and felt very natural about it.
I hope to see more from you guys, you are a great duo.

 

[Marlin22]

What truly amazed me, is how 'natural' and 'Star Wars logic' it felt. Most SW games are all about 'I'm a Jedi and horny af' or 'Let's corrupt to the dark side and fuck women'. These feel almost like parodies. This game felt like a comic book, well written, with a real 'original' feeling. Plus, all characters felt really human (and sexy af). In any words, keep it up, pretty please. I felt amazed by Toro 7 and those two first episodes. The third one might be a banger.

PS : Commodore Gally is the sexiest, change my mind.

 

[Aginaras]

What's up with the writing in episode 2? 1/3 of the text, especially the descriptive, feels like it's written by a different person, who tries too hard, but shouldn't. I am literally 2 scenes in, and I am getting constantly annoyed by text, something I am not used to.

Some of it is just weirdly put. "Of interest to you and mine" is very awkward, if not wrong, especially from the mouth of someone who just said "illusion of the self". Then some random dude from the criminal underbelly says, "Their influence is quasi-null but it still can be heard." Ignoring the whiplash, the use of the word "but" is wrong, and the rest was superfluous. Fine place to mention a noticeable lack of commas, which is not a nitpick, since it makes reading harder.

Now the descriptive text kicks in. Drea literally jumps you, yet she is kissing you "tentatively". That is not what hesitation looks like. "You match her fulgor"...what are you even talking about? "You immerse yourself in her mouth" made me chuckle; no one in the history of the world has said that in such a literal way. Then "your tongues dance around each other with resolve," which is also nonsense. "You feel a soft moan," which is technically correct, since hearing is one of the senses, I guess.

Even when it makes sense, it still sounds so awkward sometimes. "I have you surrounded"... like I get what you mean, but it still sounds stupid, and I don't think it was supposed to. Referring as "former two pursuers," to the two guys pursuing you 3 seconds ago and having just caught up to you, again, technically correct. "On the spur of the moment, time seems to slow down," I'm pretty sure someone looked for synonyms without the context for this one.

I don't want to be an asshole, but almost all of these came from a single scene, and I'm already reaching my limit. I'll skip all descriptive text, or I won't make it to the end. It's such a far cry from the first episode.

 

[Tlaero]

Although I am the writer for most of our games, the SW ones are written by Mortze, and English isn't his native language.

Tlaero

 

[Aginaras]

Although I am the writer for most of our games, the SW ones are written by Mortze, and English isn't his native language.

Tlaero

I am not a native speaker either, and in my opinion you can't invoke said excuse when you use "illusion of the self" and "quasi", and then hit us with "tentatively", "fulgor", and "fervidly" back-to-back. I honestly wonder how many people actually use "fervidly" instead of "fervently." I wouldn't be complaining if it was just some poor grammar. This though, I've never come across before. If I am the only one whose gears get ground, I'll just take the L.

 

[Pgsurprise]

I am not a native speaker either, and in my opinion you can't invoke said excuse when you use "illusion of the self" and "quasi", and then hit us with "tentatively", "fulgor", and "fervidly" back-to-back. I honestly wonder how many people actually use "fervidly" instead of "fervently." I wouldn't be complaining if it was just some poor grammar. This though, I've never come across before. If I am the only one whose gears get ground, I'll just take the L.

Church post 1861 https://f95zone.to/threads/swm-the-lurking-shadow-v2-0-mortze.46344/post-18817632

 

[Aginaras]

Church post 1861 https://f95zone.to/threads/swm-the-lurking-shadow-v2-0-mortze.46344/post-18817632

Thanks, that explains it.

 

[Mortze]

Thanks, that explains it.

Does not.
For the particular scene you mentioned, at the start, I wasn't relying on AI help to correct grammar and typos yet. That came somewhere mid-game.
Until then I used Thesaurus.com to look for synonym to avoid getting repetitive. As a not-English native I must confess that perhaps some synonyms I choose to use are totally weird and even not applicable but that's on me for not being that fluent in English I suppose.
Sorry it grinds your gears. Try to enjoy the pretty pics.

 

[Pgsurprise]

Try to enjoy the pretty pics.

LOL.

Please keep adding words. It's a hell of a story.

 

[Aginaras]

Does not.
For the particular scene you mentioned, at the start, I wasn't relying on AI help to correct grammar and typos yet. That came somewhere mid-game.
Until then I used Thesaurus.com to look for synonym to avoid getting repetitive. As a not-English native I must confess that perhaps some synonyms I choose to use are totally weird and even not applicable but that's on me for not being that fluent in English I suppose.
Sorry it grinds your gears. Try to enjoy the pretty pics.

I shouldn't have just said "that explains it," gave the wrong impression. The linked post mentions your English was not that good, which is what I doubted and was corrected, and that "you do not have the ability to come up with synonyms and metaphors," which explains why so much complex vocabulary was included incorrectly, or sounded so unnatural. In none of my posts did I mention AI, since my complaint was that there were far too many mistakes in just a single scene. Using AI to correct grammar is the opposite of my issue.

I've only had time to play the two scenes, so I could be judging the writing unfairly; it was just too much in a row to brush off as a coincidence, and first impressions do matter. You think I am complaining about the writing because I am here for the pictures? I perused that scene and paid attention to every single word. Even if everything was used correctly, it would still be tiresome to read. Using the fanciest words and phrases you can find to such an extent, comes off as very unnatural regardless, and interrupts the flow. Plenty of books tend to go overboard with their descriptive text as well, slowing the pace to a crawl. Most of the time, keeping it simple is better. No reason to open a thesaurus and substitute as many words as possible.

 

[Ottoeight]

I shouldn't have just said "that explains it," gave the wrong impression. The linked post mentions your English was not that good, which is what I doubted and was corrected, and that "you do not have the ability to come up with synonyms and metaphors," which explains why so much complex vocabulary was included incorrectly, or sounded so unnatural. In none of my posts did I mention AI, since my complaint was that there were far too many mistakes in just a single scene. Using AI to correct grammar is the opposite of my issue.

I've only had time to play the two scenes, so I could be judging the writing unfairly; it was just too much in a row to brush off as a coincidence, and first impressions do matter. You think I am complaining about the writing because I am here for the pictures? I perused that scene and paid attention to every single word. Even if everything was used correctly, it would still be tiresome to read. Using the fanciest words and phrases you can find to such an extent, comes off as very unnatural regardless, and interrupts the flow. Plenty of books tend to go overboard with their descriptive text as well, slowing the pace to a crawl. Most of the time, keeping it simple is better. No reason to open a thesaurus and substitute as many words as possible.

I have the feeling that you wouldn't like Henry James' late period: The Sacred Fount would drive you crazy. Well, it did drive me crazy, in fact.

Anyway, just a "the text is too convolute and verbose" comment would have been enough, I guess.

(just joking)

 

[Tlaero]

Even beyond writing fiction in a non-native language (which blows my mind), writing is hard. Like many things, it's easy to do badly, but it takes a ton of practice to do well. Mortze is an incredibly skilled visual artist, and it's easy to see the quality of his images and expect the writing to be similarly good. But he hasn't written enough to be good yet. Despite that, he's managed to write a compelling plot with great characters and exciting scenes. I'm incredibly proud of him, and he should be proud of what he delivered, even though the English can be a little awkward in places.

I appreciate that you're giving him feedback.

Tlaero

 

[amerlogk]

What truly amazed me, is how 'natural' and 'Star Wars logic' it felt.
....

Same for me. Remove the sex scenes and it would be a good Star Wars series or comic.
Not just f...ing and Star Wars is the "background".