VN Ren'Py Tales from the Unending Void [v0.20 Extra] [Perverteer]

[cxx]

God I hope so... this game is amazing so far.

not many dev logs so who knows.

 

[Laziness]

Long story short, he goes on (regular) vacation after the 2nd week of this month, so if it's not out by the 14th, we won't get it for a while.

As for what's taking so long, there was a setback involving Patreon a few months ago that put a damper on things, he said the timing is going to be close.

 

[Jaga Telesin]

As for what's taking so long, there was a setback involving Patreon a few months ago that put a damper on things, he said the timing is going to be close.

I find myself wondering why people even use Patreon for this kind of content now. It's far too restrictive, has too much oversight, and can literally stall a project if someone tries to report you (even just maliciously).

Doesn't seem like there's any good reason to use Patreon other than it being a known platform. But Subscribestar is as well, and doesn't have nearly the limitations that Patreon does.

 

[Walter Victor]

I find myself wondering why people even use Patreon for this kind of content now. It's far too restrictive, has too much oversight, and can literally stall a project if someone tries to report you (even just maliciously).

Doesn't seem like there's any good reason to use Patreon other than it being a known platform. But Subscribestar is as well, and doesn't have nearly the limitations that Patreon does.

What happened is that developers started out on Patreon before SubscribeStar even existed. It also took a while before SubscribeStar became a realistic alternative. Once a subscriber base was built up on Patreon, it was difficult to just switch over to another platform.

 

[SonsOfLiberty]

I find myself wondering why people even use Patreon for this kind of content now. It's far too restrictive, has too much oversight, and can literally stall a project if someone tries to report you (even just maliciously).

Doesn't seem like there's any good reason to use Patreon other than it being a known platform. But Subscribestar is as well, and doesn't have nearly the limitations that Patreon does.

Money and PayPal. Patreon makes so much more money for dev's than SS ever will.

SS is credit card only, and as it's still newish compared to most, a lot still just don't trust it.

 

[Jaga Telesin]

What happened is that developers started out on Patreon before SubscribeStar even existed. It also took a while before SubscribeStar became a realistic alternative. Once a subscriber base was built up on Patreon, it was difficult to just switch over to another platform.

Makes sense, but then if you're interested (and invested) in a project monthly, you'd probably follow to another payment platform to continue. At least I would, especially one that doesn't limit authors. But then Sisterly Lust was one of my all-time favorite AVNs, so I might be a tad biased.

Money and PayPal. Patreon makes so much more money for dev's than SS ever will.

SS is credit card only, and as it's still newish compared to most, a lot still just don't trust it.

Wasn't aware, good info to have. I figured they were similar, knowing Paypal's raised their cut over the years on money transfers. Makes it a more difficult call, though as a donor I'd probably be willing to toss another 10-20% at an author if it meant less issues, and no limitations on content or presentation. Again, YMMV.

 

[TigerWolfe]

Makes sense, but then if you're interested (and invested) in a project monthly, you'd probably follow to another payment platform to continue. At least I would, especially one that doesn't limit authors. But then Sisterly Lust was one of my all-time favorite AVNs, so I might be a tad biased.




Wasn't aware, good info to have. I figured they were similar, knowing Paypal's raised their cut over the years on money transfers. Makes it a more difficult call, though as a donor I'd probably be willing to toss another 10-20% at an author if it meant less issues, and no limitations on content or presentation. Again, YMMV.

Another thing to consider is that in every business I'm aware of if you change your storefront you are basically guaranteed to lose a percentage of your customer base. AVN devs probably rarely have the margins to eat that loss of income, even if things do return to normal or higher after a few months at the new place.

 

[AMRFTY]

Makes sense, but then if you're interested (and invested) in a project monthly, you'd probably follow to another payment platform to continue. At least I would, especially one that doesn't limit authors. But then Sisterly Lust was one of my all-time favorite AVNs, so I might be a tad biased.

The point is that (here in Europe, for example) people are far less likely to own a credit card than in the US. (

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Most of the people playing these games are from a relatively young demographic and most of us have PayPal, Cashapp, Bitcoin or whatever. Having a CC and rarely using it can end up costing you more money than it's worth (again, not if you know how to it, but a lot of people have never touched a CC before) - we usally pay our shit through Bancontant, iDeal or some other proprietary service. I think that was just explained to you and you understood, but I wanted to make an effort to really double down on this point. Prepaid CC cards are frowned upon here in the EU and some stores wouldn't even let me pay with it. It's quite a cultural thing here, still.

we should be close to update release, right?

I'll repeat what I said in the discord - I'm hoping Perv releases a good update rather than a fast update. Now of course being subscribed is taking money out of your account, so by design patrons have an incentive to ask for updates (and might even feel entitled to them). It's in everybody best interest to release a good game, even if it costs more money. You can make back the money. You can't make back the time you spend playing a shitty update, plus the fact it can ruin the time spent on a game overall.

 

[Nadira]

The point is that (here in Europe, for example) people are far less likely to own a credit card than in the US.

That seems weird to me... my debit card IS a credit card as well and I didn't have to request that functionality.

 

[SonsOfLiberty]

Wasn't aware, good info to have. I figured they were similar, knowing Paypal's raised their cut over the years on money transfers. Makes it a more difficult call, though as a donor I'd probably be willing to toss another 10-20% at an author if it meant less issues, and no limitations on content or presentation. Again, YMMV.

Not every credit card works either, your card could work now, but next week it won't.

It's a fishy company.

Most dev's who get their Patreon wiped, guess what has happened to most? Most get that orange tag added and give up. You got dev's making $1-$5k a month, then going to SS making not even $1k.

 

[AMRFTY]

That seems weird to me... my debit card IS a credit card as well and I didn't have to request that functionality.

I can imagine. Allow me to detail it and make it even weirder - EU debit cards have had the functionality of being able to going into debt since the 80's, they just never considered it as opt-in. So you have to request the feature manually and it still wouldn't let you pay like an AmEx, VISA or Mastercard card would. Probably some kind of consumer protection feature. The thing is - debit cards don't charge fees and I think most people in the EU like it that way or they set it up that way to make it attractive to use the system?

Either way, with the coming of new digital currencies and the whole world going into debt I'm sure credit cards will be the only thing most people will have in a few years.

 

[Nadira]

So you have to request the feature manually and it still wouldn't let you pay like an AmEx, VISA or Mastercard card would. Probably some kind of consumer protection feature.

I just checked. My card is both a Mastercard (even has their logo on it) and a debit card from my bank and I surely never requested the credit card feature.
I barely use the credit card feature though. I support only one dev over a SS. There I use it.

 

[c3p0]

debit cards don't charge fees

That is not true. Every bank charges fees about mostly everything. Debit card isn't the exception and store owners are the one that need to pay them.
Also they are some CC that doesn't have a yearly fee - still have all the others...

 

[AMRFTY]

I just checked. My card is both a Mastercard (even has their logo on it) and a debit card from my bank and I surely never requested the credit card feature.
I barely use the credit card feature though. I support only one dev over a SS. There I use it.

Really? That's interesting. My original experiences date back from a decade ago, so it could definitely mean things have changed since then. Glad it worked out that way now! I've seen the Mastercard logo on my new bank card, so I figured it would have been added since. I checked my bank application and as of today, I still don't have credit card functionality on my debit card. I do own a credit card from a different company though, so I never really sought out the functionality myself.

(Check the posts below, cards with the Maestro or VISA logo work a bit different than I originally thought)

That is not true. Every bank charges fees about mostly everything. Debit card isn't the exception and store owners are the one that need to pay them.
Also they are some CC that doesn't have a yearly fee - still have all the others...

You are absolutely right. Debit cards do charge fees, just not at every payment transaction for the account holder. You're absolutely correct someone has to pay for the money transfer and in this case, the store owner / entrepreneur does it (aside from a one-time account fee to the account holder, I think). And like you pointed out, there are definitely creditcards that don't have the yearly fee nor the minimum spending budget.

Credit cards aren't nearly as devious as they were 20 years ago and most people can operate them quite successfully while staying out of (too much) debt. It helps you build a credit score, which is a bonus.

 

[TigerWolfe]

Really? That's interesting. My original experiences date back from a decade ago, so it could definitely mean things have changed since then. Glad it worked out that way now! I've seen the Mastercard logo on my new bank card, so I figured it would have been added since. I checked my bank application and as of today, I still don't have credit card functionality on my debit card. I do own a credit card from a different company though, so I never really sought out the functionality myself.



You are absolutely right. Debit cards do charge fees, just not at every payment transaction for the account holder. You're absolutely correct someone has to pay for the money transfer and in this case, the store owner / entrepreneur does it (aside from a one-time account fee to the account holder, I think). And like you pointed out, there are definitely creditcards that don't have the yearly fee nor the minimum spending budget. Maybe that's even becoming the norm and big parties like International Card Services are no longer the default.

Credit cards aren't nearly as devious as they were 20 years ago and most people can operate them quite successfully while staying out of (too much) debt. It helps you build a credit score, which is a bonus.

If it's got the Mastercard function it can be run as credit or debit, but it's not actually a line of credit, it's just whatever's in your bank account.

So that should work for sites that only accept credit card, the site doesn't care about there being a line of credit they care about the card being from a real institution, a debit card from yokel's bank and trust, may suddenly fall off the map and not have money. However one from a bank that's big enough to also work with visa/Mastercard is considered large/trustworthy enough to not have that be an issue.

So the card is still in practice just debiting from your account, but you can run it as credit in places that only accept that where the "line of credit/credit limit" is just whatever's in your bank.

 

[Cabin Fever]

This has gone way off topic and will probably get deleted soon but in the meanwhile...

Having a Mastercard (or for that matter a Visa) logo on your debit card DOES NOT mean it's also a credit card.

It just means that the debit card is using Mastercard's (or Visa's) processing network to facilitate the transaction, allowing them to be used wherever cards bearing that logo is accepted.

There are some banks that issue a single card that can work as both a credit or debit cards, but that's an entirely separate can of worms altogether, and really has nothing to do with the logo on the card.

I've worked at banks for decades. I've worked on debit card projects. I've worked on credit card projects. I've worked on projects that introduced chipped cards. I've worked on projects that introduced NFC cards. I've worked on projects that introduced tap-to-pay with phones. So I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about here.

 

[TigerWolfe]

This has gone way off topic and will probably get deleted soon but in the meanwhile...

Having a Mastercard (or for that matter a Visa) logo on your debit card DOES NOT mean it's also a credit card.

It just means that the debit card is using Mastercard's (or Visa's) processing network to facilitate the transaction, allowing them to be used wherever cards bearing that logo is accepted.

There are some banks that issue a single card that can work as both a credit or debit cards, but that's an entirely separate can of worms altogether, and really has nothing to do with the logo on the card.

I've worked at banks for decades. I've worked on debit card projects. I've worked on credit card projects. I've worked on projects that introduced chipped cards. I've worked on projects that introduced NFC cards. I've worked on projects that introduced tap-to-pay with phones. So I'd like to think I know what I'm talking about here.

This is what I was trying to convey but I've been out of the industry for 6 or 7 years now, correct me if I'm wrong though but as long as your debit card uses visa or Mastercard's network it should still work at subscribestar. In the US at least I've never had my card denied by any institution that only took "credit" even though the card is as you described above.

 

[Cabin Fever]

This is what I was trying to convey but I've been out of the industry for 6 or 7 years now, correct me if I'm wrong though but as long as your debit card uses visa or Mastercard's network it should still work at subscribestar. In the US at least I've never had my card denied by any institution that only took "credit" even though the card is as you described above.

I don't work for SubscribeStar so I cannot speak for them on what they will or will not accept.

But to answer your question in a generally sense, that really depends on where you are. Everything I said before and below are 100% true in my country, and they are mostly the same in most countries but not always the same. So caveat emptor.

Where I am, merchants have the choice of accepting both debit & credit cards, or credit cards only, or debit cards only, or none at all. It's very rare that a merchant will accept credit cards but not debit cards, as it generally cost them less to accept debit cards. It's much more likely that a merchant will only accept debit cards but not credit cards for that very same reason.

Also, it's uncommon in the western world, but sometimes merchants will deny acceptance of cards based on the card issuer's geographics location. (e.g. It's not uncommon for mom & pop shops in non-tourist areas of Japan to not accept cards not issued by Japanese banks.)

And in some places, in rare cases, even specific credit cards from their own countries might be denied because not all credit cards with the same processing network logo cost the merchant the same percentage of the transaction as a fee. Where I am, some fancy upscale cards sometimes also takes a larger percentage of the transaction from the merchant as the processing fee, and a few merchants have simply said no to them. But this is mostly limited to in-person transactions.

One last thing, and this is a very common misconception. Visa or Mastercard are payment processing networks, not card issuers. Your credit cards are issued by your banks. AmEx may be a little different but then again, most AmEx cards are technically charge cards, not credit cards. Bottom line is, AmEx is a little weird, ok?

 

[AMRFTY]

I don't work for SubscribeStar so I cannot speak for them on what they will or will not accept.

But to answer your question in a generally sense, that really depends on where you are. Everything I said before and below are 100% true in my country, and they are mostly the same in most countries but not always the same. So caveat emptor.

Where I am, merchants have the choice of accepting both debit & credit cards, or credit cards only, or debit cards only, or none at all. It's very rare that a merchant will accept credit cards but not debit cards, as it generally cost them less to accept debit cards. It's much more likely that a merchant will only accept debit cards but not credit cards for that very same reason.

Also, it's uncommon in the western world, but sometimes merchants will deny acceptance of cards based on the card issuer's geographics location. (e.g. It's not uncommon for mom & pop shops in non-tourist areas of Japan to not accept cards not issued by Japanese banks.)

And in some places, in rare cases, even specific credit cards from their own countries might be denied because not all credit cards with the same processing network logo cost the merchant the same percentage of the transaction as a fee. Where I am, some fancy upscale cards sometimes also takes a larger percentage of the transaction from the merchant as the processing fee, and a few merchants have simply said no to them. But this is mostly limited to in-person transactions.

One last thing, and this is a very common misconception. Visa or Mastercard are payment processing networks, not card issuers. Your credit cards are issued by your banks. AmEx may be a little different but then again, most AmEx cards are technically charge cards, not credit cards. Bottom line is, AmEx is a little weird, ok?

Thank you, I learned a lot today!
I don't know where you are located, but this seems to be in order for Northern Europe as well.
Updated my posts to avoid confusion.



To keep this conversation from being 'moderated' into oblivion, here's some appreciation for Hannah.
I did one in the Discord earlier and it was met with good energy. So cheers to my favourite side piece.

 

[Laziness]

Oh well...

Development Update #113

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As mentioned

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I'd hoped I'd have the next episode of TFTUV ready for you by now, just before my annual summer holiday.
Unfortunately the update isn't quite done yet, I still have some renders left on my list and half a sex scene to write. I'll be doing that immediately after I come back from vacation.
I've scheduled the render of the month to publish in a few days, so Aven will keep you company. I'm going read a couple of books, maybe get outdoors once or twice and hopefully write some more TFTUV while I'm away. See you soon!