Pervtron3000

Member
Jan 3, 2019
133
140
*expert ToA combat stuff thats way over my head*
I don't usually fight in combat, but when I do I came across a combo that has always worked for me in every encounter Fade-Away -> Parry -> Disarm [REPEAT]

I always give myself enough crystals and points to unlock everything at the beginning of the game though. Doesn't do a lot of damage but it seems to get the job done without taking a lot of damage and needing to use potions.
I also wouldn't find content hidden behind something like you mention, because I only fight when I know their sex stamina is inexhaustible, and then my attitude toward fighting is just "ugh, whatever, get it over with ew gross fighting yuck"
 
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Budouka

Member
Aug 15, 2022
451
401
The thing I'm keeping in my head for two years already is this: ToA is developing as an illustrated book, not as a game. It really doesn't want to invest into playing it and all.

The writer for this game seems proud that people find ToA huge. But it is huge as a visual novel, a book. As a game it looks like it barely changed since 2019. I think it was the last year when the META actually changed. Blitz stance had an overpowered skill that was giving you 100% of defence and decent damage if you had high Agility. It was changed. Since then the game barely received any update that changed the way it feels. Now you have an armor weight, which forces you to choose between light and heavy armor, you have a little bit better upgrade system (you can never use it and it won't hurt much tho), now there's a debuff from irritated anus, and that's it. It was almost 5 years, and that's really it.

It's not hard to find real games that in this particular aspect are much better. Lust Doll, for example. They made sex an alternative to combat. It has own mechanics and it has own unique outcomes. ToA's combat sex, which, as Majalis state it, is interesting, hot and all, is not an alternative to combat at all, it can only give you a tiny advantage. Gameplaywise it's useless. Being good at sex won't reward you with experience. It never gives you really cool outcomes, just a generic “you were fucked silly” text. In Lust Doll you can challenge a minotaur girl for a sparring and win to see her cheerful and tomboysh, or make her horny, start sex and make her embarrassed, meet her at shower and have a continuation to see this character in a very different light. It gives you depth and immersion, gameplay is giving you freedom, a feeling that you really are making choices. In ToA you just bash buttons to see scenes usually, or pass checks to branch them. Like in a visual novel. Not in a real game.

Honestly, I'm embarrassing myself by being so persistent. But I really don't understand. You paid for a person to make your Developer AI. Why do you use it and use your time to make more skills that are not making any difference? They're useless. U s e l e s s. Nobody is picking them. They don't give you real scenes with very scarce exceptions. Vault can give you one scene with Demon King in ouroboros, which seems like something worth the trouble, interesting and good. But that's one character. With other 40-50 battles, if I use Vault, I get damage. And it's boring. I may be rude, but who do you think we are? Is our time so cheap that we will use the bad skills like hand hits on every of 40+ fights just to get one scene where the head is falling, and you are being fucked? And then we do it with 100 other moves to get 2 or 3 real scenes? Have decensy. Remove skills that are a deadweight. Start with spells like Cinder-Flame-Inferno, you barely find use for one such spell in current meta, you don't need three times three of them.
 

Tenty

Newbie
Dec 29, 2018
15
70
I think I want to just leave you with the thought that you just described Dark Souls using such motivated reasoning that you ended up with "Dark souls establishes early that there are many alternative passages and you will be (most of the time) rewarded for exploration, not punished." which is not at all what Dark Souls establishes. Dark Souls establishes that opening a treasure chest might kill you. It establishes that going off the beaten path may have an item, or it may have a Dark Knight who will disembowel you. It establishes, in the very beginning of the game outside of the tutorial, that sometimes going off the beaten path means you will be killed by a dozen skeletons, or fight intangible ghosts you have little hope of understanding. You will absolutely be punished for exploring in Dark Souls, even if it's expected that your dangerous curiosity will also lead to rewards, and that punishing obstacles can be their own reward. It just doesn't care that going off the beaten path will likely mean your death, because it respects player choice. Like, read this entire paragraph again if you don't get it. Dark Souls is not remotely like what you just described it as, and there's a good reason for that.

And, again, I don't want the player to "naturally" encounter things because there are four buttons and every one they hit results in something unique. I want people to be excited when they find something unexpected. The Souls games absolutely do not give a shit if you miss something (see: every single NPC quest in any of the Dark Souls games, or how you enter the ENTIRE DLC in Dark Souls 1), which is why finding things in them is rewarding.
I had a different experience with exploring in dark souls, but I understand your overall point.

Do you have some ability to poll your backers? I am sure if you would do a survey on what type of skills and stances they use, you would get the result that many of them arent being used because they are redundant or straight up bad. I think skills like center, head/wrist/foot shot, berserk, haymaker, magic except heal, seduce, stonewall, feint, the archery system are only being used by a few players, if any. I am very confident the data would support my theory. Now, how you hadle that info, is up to you.
-Rebalance the skills to give them all a meaningful niche
-Add tons of cool interactions with girls to each skill, making using them fun and sexy despite not being meta
-Remove the unused and (mostly, stop splitting hairs ^^) redundant skills and focus on cool interaction and balancing for the remainder

I respect the ambition, and sincerely hope that I am wrong and it comes all together at the end and works no matter what you pick. But I think it is very true that there are many ambitious half baked ideas in the game that will take many years to be completed if not adjusted, that is if they get completed at all.

I don't usually fight in combat, but when I do I came across a combo that has always worked for me in every encounter Fade-Away -> Parry -> Disarm [REPEAT]

I always give myself enough crystals and points to unlock everything at the beginning of the game though. Doesn't do a lot of damage but it seems to get the job done without taking a lot of damage and needing to use potions.
I also wouldn't find content hidden behind something like you mention, because I only fight when I know their sex stamina is inexhaustible, and then my attitude toward fighting is just "ugh, whatever, get it over with ew gross fighting yuck"
I usually put skill points into Armor Crusher and Tempo Attack and go AC until armor is gone, then Tempo attack, guard when balance is low. If your fast attack bleeds an enemy, you can grapple her until she bleeds out.
Another strat is going high strength/agi and skilling blitz stance->assault to just deal consistent massive damage.
You can also add Overrun and use it when the enemy is at low balance, then use crushing blow while he is down for massive extra damage.
The thing I'm keeping in my head for two years already is this: ToA is developing as an illustrated book, not as a game. It really doesn't want to invest into playing it and all.

The writer for this game seems proud that people find ToA huge. But it is huge as a visual novel, a book. As a game it looks like it barely changed since 2019. I think it was the last year when the META actually changed. Blitz stance had an overpowered skill that was giving you 100% of defence and decent damage if you had high Agility. It was changed. Since then the game barely received any update that changed the way it feels. Now you have an armor weight, which forces you to choose between light and heavy armor, you have a little bit better upgrade system (you can never use it and it won't hurt much tho), now there's a debuff from irritated anus, and that's it. It was almost 5 years, and that's really it.

It's not hard to find real games that in this particular aspect are much better. Lust Doll, for example. They made sex an alternative to combat. It has own mechanics and it has own unique outcomes. ToA's combat sex, which, as Majalis state it, is interesting, hot and all, is not an alternative to combat at all, it can only give you a tiny advantage. Gameplaywise it's useless. Being good at sex won't reward you with experience. It never gives you really cool outcomes, just a generic “you were fucked silly” text. In Lust Doll you can challenge a minotaur girl for a sparring and win to see her cheerful and tomboysh, or make her horny, start sex and make her embarrassed, meet her at shower and have a continuation to see this character in a very different light. It gives you depth and immersion, gameplay is giving you freedom, a feeling that you really are making choices. In ToA you just bash buttons to see scenes usually, or pass checks to branch them. Like in a visual novel. Not in a real game.

Honestly, I'm embarrassing myself by being so persistent. But I really don't understand. You paid for a person to make your Developer AI. Why do you use it and use your time to make more skills that are not making any difference? They're useless. U s e l e s s. Nobody is picking them. They don't give you real scenes with very scarce exceptions. Vault can give you one scene with Demon King in ouroboros, which seems like something worth the trouble, interesting and good. But that's one character. With other 40-50 battles, if I use Vault, I get damage. And it's boring. I may be rude, but who do you think we are? Is our time so cheap that we will use the bad skills like hand hits on every of 40+ fights just to get one scene where the head is falling, and you are being fucked? And then we do it with 100 other moves to get 2 or 3 real scenes? Have decensy. Remove skills that are a deadweight. Start with spells like Cinder-Flame-Inferno, you barely find use for one such spell in current meta, you don't need three times three of them.
I think you are being very harsh. I don't like the direction the devs are going with the combat, but it has some cool ideas and is very unique.
I think the grapple system and unique skill interactions (maybe include mid-combat scenes?) have great potential to finally combine the combat aspect with the erotic aspects of the game. But I agree that removing many of the redundant skills and focusing on the ones that matter would be the smartest course of action.
 

Turkishlads

New Member
Aug 6, 2021
4
5
Are we just going to ignore the fact that you can stack Strength in the latest update to ridiculous levels (2k+) just by spamming Incantation>Titan Strength or by Berserk>Enrage??? One shots anything, and even Demon King just needs 2 hits.
 
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Majalis (ToA)

Member
Jul 31, 2019
231
876
I had a different experience with exploring in dark souls, but I understand your overall point.

Do you have some ability to poll your backers? I am sure if you would do a survey on what type of skills and stances they use, you would get the result that many of them arent being used because they are redundant or straight up bad. I think skills like center, head/wrist/foot shot, berserk, haymaker, magic except heal, seduce, stonewall, feint, the archery system are only being used by a few players, if any. I am very confident the data would support my theory. Now, how you hadle that info, is up to you.
-Rebalance the skills to give them all a meaningful niche
-Add tons of cool interactions with girls to each skill, making using them fun and sexy despite not being meta
-Remove the unused and (mostly, stop splitting hairs ^^) redundant skills and focus on cool interaction and balancing for the remainder

I respect the ambition, and sincerely hope that I am wrong and it comes all together at the end and works no matter what you pick. But I think it is very true that there are many ambitious half baked ideas in the game that will take many years to be completed if not adjusted, that is if they get completed at all.


I usually put skill points into Armor Crusher and Tempo Attack and go AC until armor is gone, then Tempo attack, guard when balance is low. If your fast attack bleeds an enemy, you can grapple her until she bleeds out.
Another strat is going high strength/agi and skilling blitz stance->assault to just deal consistent massive damage.
You can also add Overrun and use it when the enemy is at low balance, then use crushing blow while he is down for massive extra damage.

I think you are being very harsh. I don't like the direction the devs are going with the combat, but it has some cool ideas and is very unique.
I think the grapple system and unique skill interactions (maybe include mid-combat scenes?) have great potential to finally combine the combat aspect with the erotic aspects of the game. But I agree that removing many of the redundant skills and focusing on the ones that matter would be the smartest course of action.
Man, all of those were improved in the update. The problem is not that there are too many skills - the problem is that some skills are undertuned! It is not hair-splitting to point out that the skills operate in fundamentally different ways from a strategic standpoint. That's why I released a big balance patch! Some might need more improvements, but little numerical improvements or even bonus attributes are really not hard or involved for me to do.

As for Armor Crusher and Tempo Attack, this is the third time I am saying this: if you read the patch notes, you would see that strategy has received an enormous nerf. All physical damage has with the addition of enemy armor and reduction to armor sunder and knockdown. I'm worried about touching it anymore, in fact, because once the AI is actually trying to win, they will - and then if a strategy is too dominant, we'll know what it is. Oh, and I already fixed the cap on stacking status effects.
 

Twiton

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2019
1,827
2,426
Damn, I just asked if the combat meta was the same, didn't think it would devolve into a full discussion about the complexity and depth of the combat system lmao
Majalis replying here does activate everyone's desire to give their input, lots of folks here really care about the game or want to be heard regarding their feedback.

Kinda wish we had an AMA with them.
 

Twiton

Well-Known Member
Jan 25, 2019
1,827
2,426
Genuinely insightful output about the AI implementation being improved to work around previously OP tactics.
But is Herobrin- I mean, is Helena fixed again? Still find it funny that she wrestles Hiro to the ground just to punch him in the face.
 

qwsaq

Active Member
Feb 2, 2020
693
992
The problem is not that there are too many skills - the problem is that some skills are undertuned!
I think the main problem is that it's too much information too early.
Imagine it's your first time creating a character in this game: you choose your class, you apply your stats, all standard fare. But then suddenly there's all these skills dumped on you. You barely have a vague concept of what any of them do. You don't even know how the combat works yet. It being your first time, you're probably aiming for as generic a build as possible to see how the game's supposed to be played. But there's no indication of what "generic" is in this case. It's too easy to get lost. There's good reason nearly every other game doesn't do it this way.

I'm not saying you should go fully in the opposite direction and hold our hands with hyper-restrictive tech trees. But a little nudge in the right direction would do wonders in ending this tired discussion.
 

Turkishlads

New Member
Aug 6, 2021
4
5
Man, all of those were improved in the update. The problem is not that there are too many skills - the problem is that some skills are undertuned! It is not hair-splitting to point out that the skills operate in fundamentally different ways from a strategic standpoint. That's why I released a big balance patch! Some might need more improvements, but little numerical improvements or even bonus attributes are really not hard or involved for me to do.

As for Armor Crusher and Tempo Attack, this is the third time I am saying this: if you read the patch notes, you would see that strategy has received an enormous nerf. All physical damage has with the addition of enemy armor and reduction to armor sunder and knockdown. I'm worried about touching it anymore, in fact, because once the AI is actually trying to win, they will - and then if a strategy is too dominant, we'll know what it is. Oh, and I already fixed the cap on stacking status effects.
I'm glad to see stuff fixed!
And I'm also having an issue when entering the Giving Handy stance, where it automatically takes your mouth-virginity from only cranking, which is illogical.
 

Majalis (ToA)

Member
Jul 31, 2019
231
876
I think the main problem is that it's too much information too early.
Imagine it's your first time creating a character in this game: you choose your class, you apply your stats, all standard fare. But then suddenly there's all these skills dumped on you. You barely have a vague concept of what any of them do. You don't even know how the combat works yet. It being your first time, you're probably aiming for as generic a build as possible to see how the game's supposed to be played. But there's no indication of what "generic" is in this case. It's too easy to get lost. There's good reason nearly every other game doesn't do it this way.

I'm not saying you should go fully in the opposite direction and hold our hands with hyper-restrictive tech trees. But a little nudge in the right direction would do wonders in ending this tired discussion.
Plenty of games give you a ton of up-front character choices - Baldur's Gate 3 is one in very recent memory. With ToA, it's also... entirely optional. Not only do you not need to allocate your skills/perks to start, you don't really have many points to work with, and it's unlikely to be super make or break in the early game. By virtue of not having any of the advanced combat stances (aside from Blitz for Warrior, which as a class is easy to start out as comparatively) you can just get used to the rhythm of combat. I admit it's a lot to take in, both the large skill list (splitting out the sex stances helped with this information overload, a bit - I might make it so that by default it hides the skills you automatically know in a stance, and give you a button to display them) and once you enter combat and there's a lot to immediately try and decipher, but you can always just try some stuff and experiment, especially if you're not on ironman mode. You don't need a hyper-optimized build - hell, you could start with cheat mode on if you really want bumpers.

I'm glad to see stuff fixed!
And I'm also having an issue when entering the Giving Handy stance, where it automatically takes your mouth-virginity from only cranking, which is illogical.
Ah, thanks, just spotted the source of that and fixed it.
 

Tighter

Member
Sep 28, 2017
160
202
Depending on how high your magic level is + how many spells you have mastered there should be a percentage that allows you to go into a deeper incantation and still let you cast in the same turn. At a certain mastery level it should be 100%.

"Instead of casting the weakest shock spell for 15 damage I will go into incantation to cast a moderately strong spell. Because my magic mastery is so high I have a 100% chance of being able to act again. The mana cost is higher but so be it. I can cast a strong spell or go into a deeper incantation, but I only have an 80% chance to act again if I go deeper because my mastery isn't that high yet."
 
Last edited:

PhazeUFO

Well-Known Member
Sep 28, 2021
1,432
1,375
Why is the only necromancer/warlock class a dumb gyaru one?
Necro you say?
Plenty of games give you a ton of up-front character choices - Baldur's Gate 3 is one in very recent memory. With ToA, it's also... entirely optional. Not only do you not need to allocate your skills/perks to start, you don't really have many points to work with, and it's unlikely to be super make or break in the early game. By virtue of not having any of the advanced combat stances (aside from Blitz for Warrior, which as a class is easy to start out as comparatively) you can just get used to the rhythm of combat. I admit it's a lot to take in, both the large skill list (splitting out the sex stances helped with this information overload, a bit - I might make it so that by default it hides the skills you automatically know in a stance, and give you a button to display them) and once you enter combat and there's a lot to immediately try and decipher, but you can always just try some stuff and experiment, especially if you're not on ironman mode. You don't need a hyper-optimized build - hell, you could start with cheat mode on if you really want bumpers.
The thing with those DnD games is that they are usually casualized versions of the PnP game, and even then they confuse new gamers. So much so that they have special modes for them, in fact I think some have an easy mode where you can't die. They also had large manuals because of all of the info and terms. The one thing about those stances you mentioned is that I don't think most people would ever know any of it unless they experimented, which they don't seem to be doing. One thing I think could help would be perhaps having this in the skill select screen whenever you click between stances. I know it gives the little explanation when you hover over the stance, but when you switch between the stances it will instead display a movie instead. Perhaps make it part of a beginner tool-tip that you can turn off so new players can get an idea of the possible strategies when thinking about a character.

Also, are you planning on changing the names of the different tabs in both the magic and perks screen like you have in the skills and sex screen? Perks currently has nothing, but magic only has magic for them all.
 

grahegri

drunk off sake
Donor
Feb 23, 2023
10,013
5,501
TalesOfAndrogyny-0.3.37.5Hotfix
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zero1234

Member
Jun 16, 2017
106
113
Plenty of games give you a ton of up-front character choices - Baldur's Gate 3 is one in very recent memory. With ToA, it's also... entirely optional. Not only do you not need to allocate your skills/perks to start, you don't really have many points to work with, and it's unlikely to be super make or break in the early game. By virtue of not having any of the advanced combat stances (aside from Blitz for Warrior, which as a class is easy to start out as comparatively) you can just get used to the rhythm of combat. I admit it's a lot to take in, both the large skill list (splitting out the sex stances helped with this information overload, a bit - I might make it so that by default it hides the skills you automatically know in a stance, and give you a button to display them) and once you enter combat and there's a lot to immediately try and decipher, but you can always just try some stuff and experiment, especially if you're not on ironman mode. You don't need a hyper-optimized build - hell, you could start with cheat mode on if you really want bumpers.


Ah, thanks, just spotted the source of that and fixed it.
While your about i wanted to ask what exactly causes the red perks specially anal addict? it feels like i get a rank of that everytime i get fucked in combat i feel like it was slower to show up in the past.
 
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Sintonir

Newbie
Jul 13, 2021
17
14
Not only do you not need to allocate your skills/perks to start, you don't really have many points to work with, and it's unlikely to be super make or break in the early game. By virtue of not having any of the advanced combat stances (aside from Blitz for Warrior, which as a class is easy to start out as comparatively) you can just get used to the rhythm of combat. I admit it's a lot to take in, both the large skill list (splitting out the sex stances helped with this information overload, a bit - I might make it so that by default it hides the skills you automatically know in a stance, and give you a button to display them) and once you enter combat and there's a lot to immediately try and decipher, but you can always just try some stuff and experiment, especially if you're not on ironman mode.
I agree with you completely, with one exception: sex "stances". I'll admit I do not use sex in combat, and mostly try to win in combat through violence and get sex through events, but that might be partially because sex "stances" are so numerous I can't even decide which skills I want to consider. And since all of them are dumped on the player right at the beginning, when they first distribute their starting skill points, it is a bit overwhelming and may paint a picture of combat sex being much more important than fighting. Sure, main fighting stances are much more detailed, but there's just so many sex "stances"...
But I actually like how meta changes from version to version, removing obviously game-breaking tactics. For example, I still try to focus on Agility and skills which use it (because it increases both offense and defense with the right build), and it makes most fights quite easy for me(I don't have the latest version though, it may change), but compared to times when Feint Strike just did +1 damage for each agility point over enemy it is way better.
Now, question to people around: does anyone else try to do achievements for level 1 and complete virgin against the last boss at the same time? I mostly do it with a speedy build, does anyone else use another tactic? Can anyone suggest a build which will work without using bonus points? I have a problem of falling into a tunnel vision whenever I see a successful tactic, and my main tactic is still successful, but I want to think about other options.
 

Majalis (ToA)

Member
Jul 31, 2019
231
876
While your about i wanted to ask what exactly causes the red perks specially anal addict? it feels like i get a rank of that everytime i get fucked in combat i feel like it was slower to show up in the past.
Possibly you're a Warrior this time? As a Warrior (which has Weak to Anal) you get anally addicted after getting fucked in the ass 1, 3, and 5 times, respectively - it's more for those without that perk.

I agree with you completely, with one exception: sex "stances". I'll admit I do not use sex in combat, and mostly try to win in combat through violence and get sex through events, but that might be partially because sex "stances" are so numerous I can't even decide which skills I want to consider. And since all of them are dumped on the player right at the beginning, when they first distribute their starting skill points, it is a bit overwhelming and may paint a picture of combat sex being much more important than fighting. Sure, main fighting stances are much more detailed, but there's just so many sex "stances"...
But I actually like how meta changes from version to version, removing obviously game-breaking tactics. For example, I still try to focus on Agility and skills which use it (because it increases both offense and defense with the right build), and it makes most fights quite easy for me(I don't have the latest version though, it may change), but compared to times when Feint Strike just did +1 damage for each agility point over enemy it is way better.
Now, question to people around: does anyone else try to do achievements for level 1 and complete virgin against the last boss at the same time? I mostly do it with a speedy build, does anyone else use another tactic? Can anyone suggest a build which will work without using bonus points? I have a problem of falling into a tunnel vision whenever I see a successful tactic, and my main tactic is still successful, but I want to think about other options.
That's part of why we broke out the Sex stances into a separate tab - and we'll probably make it upgrade with a different skill-point type as well, if we don't make sex learning specifically tied to sexual experience altogether. Positions moreso come down to preference, though if you do have a combat strategy that involves sex (which will be improved), knowing which positions you intend to get the enemy into could help guide those choices.
 

qwsaq

Active Member
Feb 2, 2020
693
992
I actually have a few questions of my own regarding chastity:
  • Is there any difference between the cages (apart from the one you can buy off the witch of course) or is that purely aesthetic?
  • Does the "size" enchantment do anything? I can't even tell if it's supposed to mean it's getting bigger or smaller.
  • Does the "permanent" enchantment have a purpose? Like is there some way it can be applied outside of enchanting it yourself?
  • Buying a chastity cage places it directly in the equipment slot. Is this intended behavior? It causes an issue where buying a new chastity cage while already wearing one does not put it in your inventory. The cage you intended to buy just poofs out of existence entirely and your money was spent for nothing.
 
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prisoner416

Newbie
Jan 3, 2018
67
27
Possibly you're a Warrior this time? As a Warrior (which has Weak to Anal) you get anally addicted after getting fucked in the ass 1, 3, and 5 times, respectively - it's more for those without that perk.


That's part of why we broke out the Sex stances into a separate tab - and we'll probably make it upgrade with a different skill-point type as well, if we don't make sex learning specifically tied to sexual experience altogether. Positions moreso come down to preference, though if you do have a combat strategy that involves sex (which will be improved), knowing which positions you intend to get the enemy into could help guide those choices.

Any chance of getting a scene replay gallery that replays text/sex? The cg poser just isn't enough.
 
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