Segnbora

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Aug 30, 2017
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Where it gets really tricky is giving the Player knowledge the MC should not have or having hints that something happened but it is never revealed (or is revealed down the road), both of these things will take care and skill to work successfully.

I hope it is path dependent - where most sexual encounters down a swinger path should have the MC mixed in of course, in a hotwife/cuck path more flashbacks and voyeur stuff, in a cheating path more hinted at and then later in the game they get revealed. Something like that.
It seems like a zillion years ago, but that really, really long post I wrote outlining how I thought the game could be fixed had this as one of the ideas. It's pretty easy to implement in the sense that some scenes can just not be shown while on certain paths, though the writing in the "common" scenes needs to be done carefully.

The thing is, I'm mostly here to see the sex. So I'm not particularly interested in a game in which I know Anne is having sex that I can't see. I'm not here for the MC's feelings — I'm not into real netorare at all, or at least not the emotional part of it, even though I pretty much always pursue that path in a game if it's available — I'm here for the swinging/open relationship/hotwifing/etc. So, for me, I want to be able to see everything either character can do. Both sides of the Adventurous Couple.

I don't want choices assigned to Anne, in the sense the player gets to assign choices to her. She should make her choices based on how the Player/MC treats her. This is not to take away from Anne's agency, but rather to cut down on complexity.
In an ideal world I very much agree with you, but in terms of gamecraft I think it's easier for the player to retain at least a little control over Anne. The sex club scene in the original is a case where I think it was useful; we see both the MC and Anne making choices about how they're going to treat that encounter. Whereas something like Marcus on the beach is a perfect example of a scene that should've been driven by existing variables. Assuming (as I think one can) that by that stage there's no reason for Anne and Marcus not to have sex, if we're on an open and honest route she goes ahead and does so. If there are trust issues or if she's cheating then she goes to lunch with him first and they reminisce about all the sex they used to have, which sets him up as a threat/rival. If they're on a swinging path (irrespective of the other variables) she joins the orgy. I don't need it to be a flashback or a recap as long as, if they're on an open/honesty path, it's clear that he knews about it in the aftermath.

MC: "How was your day?"
Anne (path 1): "I ran into an old friend on the beach."
MC: "And did you get reacquainted?"
Anne (path 1) "Of course! Get on the bed and I'll tell you all about it."

MC: "How was your day?"
Anne (path 2): "I ran into an old friend...well, actually an old lover...on the beach."
MC: "And did you get reacquainted?"
Anne (path 2) (hesitates) "Yeah, we did."
MC: "And...?"
Anne (path 2) (impatiently) "We had sex, of course. Isn't that what you always want me to do?"
MC: (thinking) Old lover, eh? I should try harder to make sure she's happy.
[choice] "Babe, would you like a massage?" or (thinking) Never mind, I'm tired and I have to get an early start tomorrow.

MC: "How was your day?"
Anne (path 3): "I ran into an old friend...well, actually an old lover...on the beach."
MC: "And did you get reacquainted?"
Anne (path 3) "Of course, and it was so hot! But it's what happened next that's going to surprise you."
(scene dissolve)
MC: "Wow, that's amazing! I wish I'd been there!"
Anne (path 3): "Join me on the beach one day and maybe we'll both get lucky."

MC: "How was your day?"
Anne (path 4): "Nothing much. More beach time."
MC: "Did you meet anyone interesting?"
Anne (path 4) "The usual attempts and crude pickup lines, but I wasn't interested."

The reason I still want to see that beach scene as it happens is that it gives all these post facto discussions context. We know she's telling the truth, we know she's holding something back, or we know she's lying. Either way the game's giving us feedback on our choices, even if Anne isn't doing it with words.

Actually, thinking back, there aren't all that many consequential choices that the player makes for Anne when she's by herself. I tend to think of choices made for Anne when the MC's present (like what kind of sex she's going to have with the pizza delivery man) as reflective of the MC's desires, whereas deciding what kind of sex she's going to have with the plumber is the sort of choice the player shouldn't be making. (It's weird, anyway; the scene's rendered, just have her give him both a blowjob and intercourse.) I'm trying to remember...does she get to choose whether or not Phil's photoshoot includes sex with his son?

He treats her well and is honest, then he gets to have some fun as well, no arguments or cheating from her. I'd like a Nicole scene where Anne asks the MC to fuck her after he's shown he's been honest about the lifestyle and not a cheater, and she watches and gets off on it.
My recollection of the original is that her telling him she'd like to see him with another woman comes completely out of nowhere and isn't dependent on any previous choices. As for Nicole, Anne's reaction to the MC having sex with her is quite different in the revamp, and that makes sense because the MC is able to tell her about it. I agree with you that I'd like to see Anne take a more active role in encouraging his adventures. Since they've both been with Nicole, there's really no reason there shouldn't be a threesome.
 
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Retromancer

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As for Nicole, Anne's reaction to the MC having sex with her is quite different in the revamp, and that makes sense because the MC is able to tell her about it. I agree with you that I'd like to see Anne take a more active role in encouraging his adventures. Since they've both been with Nicole, there's really no reason there shouldn't be a threesome.
I should actually do a playthrough where the MC cheats. Just looked through the gamecode, and it seems it is a very quick reaction about how she's not mad about it but then the whole thing gets tabled after Nicole gets injured. Yeah, the cuckquean thing came out of nowhere in the original but it should happen much earlier on a more loving/swinging path.
 
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Segnbora

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a very quick reaction about how she's not mad about it but then the whole thing gets tabled after Nicole gets injured.
Matches my memory. The thing is, the MC is still kinda bad about openness and honesty. He'll harangue Anne for the dirty details but won't offer any of his own. Anne still doesn't know about the massage encounters. Those scenes should modify variables, even if they're completely hidden and unused until several chapters hence. One of my minor objections to the revamp is that this is still true across all paths.

the cuckquean thing came out of nowhere in the original but it should happen much earlier on a more loving/swinging path.
Perhaps it should start earlier but then be stats-dependent thereafter. I see four basic states for Anne, in order of decreasing marital harmony: fine with the MC sleeping around, annoyed by the MC sleeping around, not okay with the MC sleeping around, indifferent to the MC sleeping around. (I'm obviously including the MC's honesty in that survey.)

The above complaint about the MC still not following the rules could be fixed even now: a one-and-done confrontation scene that happens on paths where 1) Anne has been an enthusiastically open pariticipant but the MC has cheated, or 2) both Anne and the MC have bent the rules. (On other paths it wouldn't be logical at the moment, and if it happened later in the game it would mean Anne was already on a "fuck you, I'm sleeping with whoever I want" path.) Anne forces the MC to confess, she confesses, and they both get a stat break (not a complete reset, but a relationship improvement. A few dialogues over a few static renders and the slate's wiped...not clean, but at least free of unidentified fluids.
 
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Retromancer

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Actually, thinking back, there aren't all that many consequential choices that the player makes for Anne when she's by herself.
Well, there are some. Let's take Dre for an example. The Player (acting as Anne) can take Anne further with him or just be teasing. And if Dre is consequential down the road, as the original game suggests and the new in-game text supports, then isn't this another decision point that needs to be accounted for by the writer/programmer of this game? Doesn't it add complexity? I personally like Dre as a character and actually support the game's handling of their encounter, but I would like less of these decision points. I think they would be hard to manage, which is why the whole rewrite was needed in my opinion. But I am not a programmer or writer, so if I am wrong I am open to hearing about it

The thing is, I'm mostly here to see the sex. So I'm not particularly interested in a game in which I know Anne is having sex that I can't see.
I agree 100%. But I think there are enough players who like the "hidden" aspect of the game that it might happen. IF that is done then I definitely want it to be revealed later. Looking at the code, the theater encounter may be in the next chapter. If I remember right, if the MC goes with Anne, she gives the guy a HJ, if he doesn't, she gives him a BJ and then tells the MC later and the Player sees the scenes. This would be the type of scenario I would like to see.
 
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Segnbora

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Let's take Dre for an example. The Player (acting as Anne) can take Anne further with him or just be teasing. And if Dre is consequential down the road, as the original game suggests and the new in-game text supports, then isn't this another decision point that needs to be accounted for by the writer/programmer of this game? Doesn't it add complexity? I personally like Dre as a character and actually support the game's handling of their encounter, but I would like less of these decision points.
I don't remember either way, but I agree if so. As I've said before, Dre seemed like an infatuation (and a very early one) — the first indication that Anne wasn't necessarily going to stay in the MC's sandbox — and quickly escalated to more, what with the dreamy eyes at the bar, wishing the MC had stayed out of their sex (if he doesn't), and then inviting him over for another go without consultation (which we didn't get to see and now won't for a while). Martin was the character that made everyone sit up and say, "oh, a threat," but Dre was the original threat and I was glad to see that he was going to return.

The revamp definitely makes this more explicit from the very beginning, which is exceedingly welcome. It also makes it a clearer seduction on her part, whereas the original is more indecisive about who's pursuing who. But to your point: in the revamp thus far, which decisions would you use to incline/disincline Anne to seduce Dre? The MC's cheating? Will (the Punta Cana "nerdy" encounter)? If you get the "mad but I'll forgive you" confrontation in Punta Cana, which seems like the most difficult to reach? I'm not sure there's been enough in the game by that point to background this decision in the MC's actions. But maybe I'm forgetting the sequence of events.

Would you feel better about the player making choices for Anne if the stat consequences were made explicit? (I don't meant actually displaying the stat change, I mean something like the "don't have sex with her tonight and you'll regret it" warning.) I'm not sure how this would work w/r/t Dre...maybe:

[choice] "You've got me so worked up. Join me in the locker room, baby." vs. "You've got me so worked up. I want you to meet my husband. I think he'll like you, and if he agrees..."

Personally, I'd be fine with that. It's not pure, and gives up some of Anne's agency to the player, but I consider that far more desirable than giving Anne's agency to the MC. (On which subject I'm arguing over on the General board at this very moment.)

I agree 100%. But I think there are enough players who like the "hidden" aspect of the game that it might happen. IF that is done then I definitely want it to be revealed later. Looking at the code, the theater encounter may be in the next chapter. If I remember right, if the MC goes with Anne, she gives the guy a HJ, if he doesn't, she gives him a BJ and then tells the MC later and the Player sees the scenes. This would be the type of scenario I would like to see.
Hardcore NTR fans definitely want the uncertainty and the tease and the very slightly porous "wall," and it wouldn't be all that hard to give them what they want; it's less of a coding challenge than it is a writing challenge, as it's hard to avoid referencing events that "didn't happen." The original toyed around with this idea a few times; in addition to the scene you mention, there was a (difficult) way to have at least one and maybe two of the Drake scenes recounted to the MC, and there was also a very difficult-to-achieve path in which the second Ryan encounter was revealed to the MC.
 

Retromancer

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The revamp definitely makes this more explicit from the very beginning, which is exceedingly welcome. It also makes it a clearer seduction on her part, whereas the original is more indecisive about who's pursuing who. But to your point: in the revamp thus far, which decisions would you use to incline/disincline Anne to seduce Dre? The MC's cheating? Will (the Punta Cana "nerdy" encounter)? If you get the "mad but I'll forgive you" confrontation in Punta Cana, which seems like the most difficult to reach? I'm not sure there's been enough in the game by that point to background this decision in the MC's actions. But maybe I'm forgetting the sequence of events.
I guess what I was trying to say here, and didn't do the job very well, was that I want less decisions. I know a lot of players may disagree, but I think it would actually make for a better game. Still using the Dre example - yes, Anne is now more explicit in her feelings. This is welcome, as you said, and should be followed by Anne automatically seducing Dre into the locker room, IF (and this is a big if) Dre is going to perhaps become some sort of rival to the MC or partner to Anne down the line. If Dre is a minor/side character, then I would like stats or (less often) player choice to determine it, and I want these stats to begin to be established early. All we have right now is the "Love" stat, so I would work with that.

I feel that less decisions and stronger main threads in the story is more interesting. Again using Dre as an example, if he is a side character, perhaps we get one more scene where Anne's choice could be referenced, then he is out of the picture. If you are on a hotwife path, then maybe he's a main character and the path is more determined. For a swinger path, maybe Mike or Kenny could be the main character (or the actual swingers next door), for a cheating path, the focus would be on Martin (bleh) and Ryan, so on and so forth. While I have little sympathy for those who complain that Anne is banging more men that the MC is women, there is some validity to complaints that she just has sex with everyone. Same with the MC though - if the MC is having sex with Nicole, or Chloe, I would like that to matter more than it did in the original.

In my vision, some existing scenes would be cut from certain paths. So I doubt it will happen. But I think it would make for a tighter, more coherent game.
 
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apnea111

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Dec 18, 2018
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In my opinion its not at all about varuables or mathematics. The story Will go to the direction dev wants it to go. You have many options As a dev to let the player decide at witch route you are on or to even change routes.

Dev needs to have a solid plan about the story but also a solid plan about the commercial aspect of His game. He did not have it at the original chapter. His initial plan i believe was a pure cuckold game. He totally lost it after chapter 6. Delivered a great fap material, but not a solid game in terms of story, characters depth, routes, decicions value etc. He also lost it As a commercial product, since the ntr fans were super happy, but the sex scenes were there early on an plenty. If you treat something As a game you need support, but If you treat it like fapping material, People Just fap for free.
Thats why People actually never supported him on patreon As this game could deserve.

Most strange thing in other Games Is when there Is no Walkthrough either official or unofficial. But in this case not having a walkthrough for the original chapter Is justified by reality. I mean If If the main outcome of game story Is ckick and fap why bother. You get about 40-50-60(Who can count) sex scenes(or sexy scenesl untill chapter10 scripted. Just random click and you get 80-90% of them. The fact that there Is not a walkthrough Is the most revealing thing about the game initial structure, and also about the nature of the fanbase.

They main differnce in the revamp till now Is not anne being more adventurous (she has more scenes comparing to original) . Or stepping up faster (she actually steps up far earlier than dre. He flashes upclose to shoes salesman and let him grope, and also lets creepie guy touch her pushy since chapter1)

Main differnce Is you have the chance to set things again on track regarding your relationship. You can fuck around and your faithfulness Goes to false but then when being honest (partially honest), its reverted to True. You can also get relationship point being honest.

You get penalizied for talking steps back As it conerns main Milestone characters, but also If you dont show sexual interest in your wife.

Its a main differnce and also a great Base for the revamp If dev decides to really have and option to have a mutually opened relationship.

Dev should keep in this track. Should also consider to cut of some scenes or characters. To many shallow characters in original chapter. Too many characters with an emotional inprint concerning anne, to few concerning MC, Just for the fucfest or Just to TRY balancing things.

You can also revert things or set another path in many ways. Just an open conversation, or a traumatic experience. Screw variables. Is there a rule (that was inplemented in the original) that all random guys Who fuck a married wife or a stranger with ease are good respectfull guys? Random chicks you fuck around are all talkable, understanding and easy to go with?
You pick a Hot married Slut together with your friend on the beach while on vacation. You get her in your room to gangbang her. You Follow instructions?

Dev has all the options to go with this wherever he wants to. From a click and fap material which was the original story, to a True game with structure, paths, options, plot twists (original had some but only from the unpleasant side for the mc), characters development.
 

YaFLCL

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Nov 7, 2017
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So for the most impatient fans Mircom made update on patreon!

"Sorry I was not able to get a second release out by the end of July as I really wanted to. I worked hard to try to achieve this but unfortunately it was just not meant to be. I just need a few more days to have completed the way I want it."

See? He is cool.
 

Jy1017

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Jan 10, 2018
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Does anyone think it's kinda suspect the developer waited until August 1st to say he couldn't get the release out? He gave the hope of another update in July but decided to wait until the August pledges go through before saying anything. Also this is coming from someone who pledges top tier. Honestly I feel everyone should drop their pledge to a dollar until the content is released that month.
 

Computergod67

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Oct 9, 2018
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Does anyone think it's kinda suspect the developer waited until August 1st to say he couldn't get the release out? He gave the hope of another update in July but decided to wait until the August pledges go through before saying anything. Also this is coming from someone who pledges top tier. Honestly I feel everyone should drop their pledge to a dollar until the content is released that month.
Wow dude, you obviously don't know this developer very well. And if you do indeed pledge top tier you would understand what he is doing with the game to make it better for everyone and sometimes things take longer. But by all means, drop your pledge down if you feel the need...
 
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