I mean damn, that guy you replied to had a point. The way you worded your criticisms either indicate the need for anger management lessons or anti-depressants. Sure, you are entitled to make as many pointlessly harsh criticism as you want online, but why bother making a statement in such a way that turns people off from seeing your point?
So, you guys want to know why I was harsh with these games? Because I'm not a moron apparently - and this one was meant to be rude and offensive.
Here's the thing, a long time ago a group of actual game developers, that had actual test players made Princess Maker, then they improved on it through various iterations. Then someone took that idea and made a porn game out of it: the original Slave Maker. The reason why that game was "good" is simple, someone else did the hard game dev work. While that game has been improves over the years, the truth is every new iteration of Slave maker has been less and less enjoyable. It's not because it deviated more and more from the Princess Maker formula, it's because non of the people that made the new games were actual game devs and because they only added things without fully taking into account the UI and how users would interact with the game. Cmac might be a dev, but he's not a one man game dev, his porn games are passion projects, not something he has to make great or he ends up on the streats.
Now, let's turn our eyes to this list of the "best" brothel games out there. Why do I so vehemently disagree with it? because while "best" might be a qualifier and not and absolute, none of the games on this list are actually "good" games. Most aren't even mediocre. The only games on the list that you can actually buy for cash is not even mediocre and only got publicity because of the mediocre to good game that preceded it. A game that didn't invent the match three genre but only skinned a matched three game.
You want a more concrete example? one from the list? how about Free Cities? a game that after a period of rapid development ended up abandoned by the original author. A game that covers topics so taboo, even the dark web avoids real life example of said topics. A game currently only being maintained by one modding community, one which caters to a completely different set of taboo's the dark web is iffy on. Why do WE play that game? why do we like that game? because it deals with topics and taboos that aren't covered in most other places. Since they aren't covered in most other places we have nothing to compare it to content wise so we say it's good because it's all we know.
Thing is, we might not have many games content wise that we can compare this list with, but when it comes to actual game mechanics we can find comparisons. If you've ever played Free cities you know that it's UI isn't good, you know that it's game play can get seriously boring and repetitive, you know you mostly play it for the concepts and taboo topics it covers and not for the mediocre management game play that you couldn't positively compare with any of the top management games that you can buy on GOG - and why GOG.com and not Steam? because GOG sells old games, in some cases 30 years old, you know, just so I make my point even clearer.
None of the games on the list dusty posted are good, they are at best mediocre. And while we don't play them because they're good games but because of the topics they cover that doesn't mean we should excuse sloppy execution. There might not be many games we can compare Slave Maker to, but we can compare it to the Princess maker franchise and we will find it wanting. There might not be many games we can compare brother sims to, but there are many management game we can compare them to, and they will be found wanting. Not might, will.
This is not to say there are no improvement made in the field of pornographic games. But most games that are even remotely consistent and attempt to present a unified, enjoyable game experience tend to either be short and small or have been in a development limbo for years. Just take Grim City by Smerh, a game that tries it's hardest to be a game first and foremost. But a game that is both simple and in development hell. And this topic brings us to the second problem - games that are funded by Patreon but which see little to no development in years. Games whose final versions are barely any better then the alphas and betas they launched with. Games like Something Unlimited, games like those by Akabur, games like Orange Trainer.
If you guys are willing to tolerate mediocrity, that's on you. But when you publicly praise it you'll have to excuse me if I voice my disagreement.
- Jan 24, 2018
- 1,750
- 1,580
No excuses are being made. It's simply a list of the best smut games that focus on brothel management in existence atm. OFC I know that most of the "game" aspects of these smut games are hallow copies of actual games. If you can recommend a smut game that's better than these, I'm all ears.
If you want to share your diatribe on the generally low quality of smut games in the industry, may I suggest you start your own topic? I don't think comparing the best games on steam or GOG to smut games on f95 is going to grant us significant insight into the best brothel smut games.
Oh, there I beg to differ. Most games cost money to make as a result most game studios have their games tested extensively before they go to market. Comparing most "smut games" with even really old AAA games is a great idea since a lot of work and testing went into making said AAA games. Actually, considering the Early Access culture and how buggy most AAA games have been as of late, comparing most smut games to indie and old games in the same genre might be the best idea.
By comparing the games on here with bigger games we can see what worked in said bigger games and where most games on here fall short. It's easier to explain what you dislike about a game mechanic if you have a concrete example of it being done better.
Again, returning to Free Cities. Why is the UI of Free Cities bad? because it's overly complicated and because it usually takes you several clicks to get to where you want to go. Solution? simplify the UI with something like TABS... to bad the version that does that is the pregmod version...ugh. Does the new UI make the game better? yes. Does it solve the UI problem, not really. But it helps.
One example from AAA gaming is The Witness. Johnathan Blow, the lead designer said something interesting about it, when the basic puzzles were complete, before the artists came and made the game pretty to look at you couldn't play the game for too many hours. IT would get boring. Once the artists were done the game becomes easier to play. Why? because suddenly people had something that could relax them in between frustrating puzzles.
Coming back to your list, let's take the game Strumpets. The original version, if you're ever played it, had very bad Flash art. Then they had an update that changed the art to the new style. While the new art isn't great, it is a significant improvement from the original programmer art that the game used. That update also came with quite a few game play updates that significantly improved the game overall. Does that make the new version of the game good though? well, no, not in my opinion. The game is better then it used to be, but it's still not a good game.
Now, you've claimed that I should make a thread of my own just to bitch about how bad these games are. I disagree. The whole point of a site like f95 is to allow us to review porn games among other smut. You made this list on here. Every post I've made thus far has more then tangentially come back to your list and 8 games on it that I've played. And every time I've come with a new set of insights. Why? because I'm not content with saying this is "good enough" and going my way.
As for why I haven't bothered proposing any new games for you list, well, why would I? Not only do I think your list is horrendous, but several people have already proposed other games for this list and your response has tended to be, the art sucks so I won't put the on here... despite the fact that several of the games on your list have art that is of the same quality or worse.
This isn't a list of the best brothel games out there, this is a list of the brothel games you like best out there. Your replies to people that offered other games for the list clearly indicated the question mark at the end of this threads title is unnecessary and only a feeble attempt to mask your own arrogance when it comes to this particular thread.
- Jan 24, 2018
- 1,750
- 1,580
@Alucaard
I seriously disagree. Smut games can't be compared to AAA games. The difference in funding, target audience size, maturity rating, and overall game objective is so different, that they're different by kind, not just degree. Not to mention most AAA games need two hands to play. It's kinda hard to jack off and play a game that requires two hands. Sim brothel games are middle ground between no-effort sim dates that occupy the top 50 game slots of f95, and action oriented or extremely cerebral games. I don't think Portal would be better if you got to see tits after each puzzle as a reward.
If you checked, you would see that I have made reviews for about 7 of the games I listed in the og post. I acknowledge most of the issues you've brought up. I've also listed why the games are good. If a person only focuses on the negatives, how will they enjoy anything?
I seriously disagree. Smut games can't be compared to AAA games. The difference in funding, target audience size, maturity rating, and overall game objective is so different, that they're different by kind, not just degree. Not to mention most AAA games need two hands to play. It's kinda hard to jack off and play a game that requires two hands. Sim brothel games are middle ground between no-effort sim dates that occupy the top 50 game slots of f95, and action oriented or extremely cerebral games. I don't think Portal would be better if you got to see tits after each puzzle as a reward.
If you checked, you would see that I have made reviews for about 7 of the games I listed in the og post. I acknowledge most of the issues you've brought up. I've also listed why the games are good. If a person only focuses on the negatives, how will they enjoy anything?
A lot of small indie games that exploded are a result of people studying what others did before them and trying to recreate it. Stardew Valley comes to mind. For all intents and presuppose it's nothing more then the now almost 30 year old Harvest moon game on a PC - with a tad or JRPG town interaction. One single guy took his free time and his love of a genre to make a game that sold over 5 million copies.
To claim that our little community here can't produce anything that's as good as a AAA is to claim indie hits can't happen. Now, it's true, it's a lot harder to sell something like Free Cities on STEAM... ok, it would be literally imposible for some of the games on your list to ever make it on steam, EVER... but still, that's no excuse for a bad UI.
AS I previously said, we all play these games and think of them as good because that's all we have. That doesn't mean we should be ok with mediocrity though. There's a reason why Strumpets moved to a new art style. There's a reason why Renderotica for example is slowly but steadily progressing. Just because it's porn doesn't mean it need to be half assed. As I said, more then one game on your list has changes since it's initial inception, usually for the better, none has reached the point were we can truly call it good, but are you really going to tell me the UI improvements that the Pregmod for free cities brings aren't great? that the new art of Strumpets or Strive for power wasn't a welcomed changed? That Breading season wasn't make 10k because of decent art, animation and competent gameplay? Not everybody on Patron is Akabut or Gunsmoke games, some of those people are actually trying to compete with the big boys... well, the smaller successful indies. It would be unfair to anyone that actually tries to make a good game to not compare them to the rest of the games market, even if the other players in that market reject them because of the topics their games cover. There is a market for porn, the reason why most store fronts don't carry much porn on them is moral busy busies, not people being unwilling to pay for it. There's a reason Akabut was making 25k at one time on Patreon... People are willing to pay for quality porn games (even if his games weren't all that high quality)... major game fronts aren't willing to carry such games though because the vocal minority will make noise.
fucking a, man. People around here seem to be allergic to criticism or something. As long as it has pictures of boobs, they don't care if it's actually good.
As for Dusty's point about these games no being able to compete with AAA games, that's just absurd. Look at Palmer, for example. His games aren't even all that good, but he has over 6,000 patrons. He doesn't show how much he's making, but even if all 6,000 were giving $1 each, that's $6k. It's more likely that they're giving $5 each on average. Some are undoubtedly paying into the $10 and $20 tiers, too. So, he's making anywhere from $6-$30K. Probably somwehere around the middle. Even making just $12k a month is pretty fucking good. Surely, someone could do a high quality remake of Free Cities or someshit if that's possible with average-quality visual novels
- Jan 24, 2018
- 1,750
- 1,580
Not sure what your point is here?
Nice boobs is only one aspect of a smut game. There's also art, animation, sound, writing, gameplay, polish, and kinks.
I agree, 12k a month is pretty good for 1 guy. Still ~$60k a year for one guy on patreon is nowhere near the capital that goes into the AAA industry. How many smut makers are making 60k? 20 people? 50 people? If we generously assume 100 people are making 60k from smut games, that's about $6mil a year. Seems like a lot, right? Well, not when compared to Halo 3, which had a $70mil budget.
Wouldn't that be great? Evidently not, because no group has taken up such a venture. In the meantime, there's still Porn Empire, Strive for Power, and even FC itself with a few mods.
Bullshit man. Saying 6k isn't enough is bullshit. Eric Barone made Stardew Valley over the course of four years. Alexander Bruce made Antichamber over a similar amount of time. Bruce used the money he won from different indie competitions he presented his game to finance the development. Barone didn't even have that.
And here you are, telling us that someone that is probably making over 6k a month doesn't have the budget to compete with AAA. Indies have exploded over the past decade because AAA has gotten so expensive. Indies that have reached the point were Microsoft buys them for 2 billion.
AAA doesn't want to touch porn and frankly even single player is being viewed with skepticism. The result? indies are exploding despite the indipocalipse and Patreon is filled with porn games. Indies, somehow, can compete with AAA at a fraction of the budget, but poor Patreon Porn devs can't? poor patreon devs that are sometimes making more money on a regular basis then some of the indie devs that outperform AAA titles on Steam and GoG... yeah, no.
And here you are, telling us that someone that is probably making over 6k a month doesn't have the budget to compete with AAA. Indies have exploded over the past decade because AAA has gotten so expensive. Indies that have reached the point were Microsoft buys them for 2 billion.
AAA doesn't want to touch porn and frankly even single player is being viewed with skepticism. The result? indies are exploding despite the indipocalipse and Patreon is filled with porn games. Indies, somehow, can compete with AAA at a fraction of the budget, but poor Patreon Porn devs can't? poor patreon devs that are sometimes making more money on a regular basis then some of the indie devs that outperform AAA titles on Steam and GoG... yeah, no.
That's my point. All those elements matter, but most people on this site don't seem to care if the game in question is lacking in most of those areas. For example, you have Free Cities on your list. I like that, but it's completely lacking in animation, sound, and polish, and the art is shit.
That's precisely why we aren't comparing it to games like Halo 3. We're comparing it to games like Stardew Valley, Super Meatboy, and other other indie games. Most of them were passion projects by one guy or a small team, with barely any capital and no real expectation of selling millions of copies. There's no good reason why this community should accept less than that.
Firstly, what do you mean "evidently not" in response to "Wouldn't that be great?" Just because it hasn't been done doesn't mean it wouldn't be great. It would. Hell, it has been done before. Sim Brother Revival is basically a "high" quality remake of Sim Brothel. The Hentai High School you're probably talking about is a higher quality remake too. Unfortunately, it's a piss poor one, but it is nonetheless. The fact that it hasn't happened is no evidence to the point that it isn't possible. I never danced a jig with a cantalope on my head singing the Star Spangled Banner, but it's possible.
The money thing is kind of off topic, but from what I've noticed looking at the Patreon pages for games that actually show how much is being made, all of ones that are showing decent money involve a team, not just 1 guy and most of those once you assume some sort of reasonable split between the team are making less than someone of comparable skills could make at a "real" job.
The only exception I've seen so far is for Summertime Saga. I have no clue how a game like that is bringing in more than $50k per month. That's enough to be good money even for a team (assuming it's not a big team). But $6k a month is nothing for someone with the tech skills to make their own game, and almost all of the games I've seen are making less than that. It's enough to live on but far less than what they could earn in the tech industry at a "real" job.
Personally, I would look at it more as an option to be my own boss and do something I enjoy that brings in enough to pay the bills even if it's less than I would make at a real job. I know I would take a huge pay cut if I tried to switch to making adult games on Patreon for a living even if I was reasonably successful at it (I'm going to assume that I'm not the next Dark Cookie). Alternatively it could just be a fun hobby that happens to bring in a little money as well.
Anyway back to the topic of brothell games, I haven't found any that were all that enjoyable. Simbro was probably my favorite so far despite all the bugs and the cartoon graphics, probably because it had 1 interesting character (Alice), while most brothell games have zero. Would be nice to see a more polished brothell sim with some characters that weren't all just generic whores with no story or personality.
IMO something centered more on corrupting girls to go work there (or maybe a higher class escort service or something) would be more interesting than a game where you just hire a bunch of randomly generated disposable fuck toys. Or you could take the low road and make it about a pimp and focus on how he corrupts girls to work the streets for him.
- Jan 24, 2018
- 1,750
- 1,580
I think It's also market size. Sure, we can point at a few guys who make 60k or even 200k. But there's still only about 100 dedicated smut game makers. Compare that to the indie game makers. There are thousands of indie game makers out there. And for every 500 games that are complete trash, you get 1 stardew valley. Therefore, if 99% of any game is trash, and there are only 100 full time smut game makers, there's only one smut game that's great. The smut industry is relatively young and rather under funded. The target audience is fairly small. With these things in mind, I'm happy with what I can get right now. That being said; yes, I'd like more or better smut games to be available.
The only good brothel game is Bifrost which is untranslated. It puts all other brothel games to shame.
It is the Recettear of brothel games.
Chimera also has solid training mechanics but has no business management aspect.
The old Whoremaker games was also kinda decent, don't know what happened to it.
Slavemaker is bad, Jack-o-Nine isn't that different from that, Strive for Power isn't that different from both.
It is the Recettear of brothel games.
Chimera also has solid training mechanics but has no business management aspect.
The old Whoremaker games was also kinda decent, don't know what happened to it.
Slavemaker is bad, Jack-o-Nine isn't that different from that, Strive for Power isn't that different from both.
- Jan 24, 2018
- 1,750
- 1,580
One look at the cover art turns me off faster than it takes for a non-pc patreon account to get demonetized.
- Jan 24, 2018
- 1,750
- 1,580
I kinda like that about most brothel games. You can change the hair color and tit size and with a little imagination pretend like you are whoring out all the Sailor Moon girls or whatever. Stive for power lets you upload your own pics for the girls, which brings it even closer to "my little Whore dollhouse simulator".
I have to disagree with your "real" job comment. The guy behind Stardew started making the game because he was out of college, was a professional programmer and the only job he could find was that of an usher. He started making the game so he could become a better programmer.
Sure, a programmer in the US, or Canada, or the UK or many other places in the first world will make more then a lot of the porn devs on Patreon, but if we are comparing them to indies, most of those indies are made by people that only go full dev once they either get a publisher or they sell enough to afford to do so. Combining this with the fact that not all porn devs on Patroen are American and that $6k a month will indeed be more then even a small team will make in some countries at a "real" job and what you get is rather lackluster results for the money that's being invested.
As for the industry being new and at the beginning... well, the Japanese have been putting the kind of smut that would get them banned from STEAM (and in some places made illegal) in their games for decades. Hell, some of their "games" aren't even games but just picture books in an electronic format and with smut... some become so successful they even end up removing the smut to sell to a wider audience.
Here's one I just found yesterday that's HUGE and I love the art style. It's superhero themed but it's basically a brothell sim.
https://f95zone.to/threads/something-unlimited-v2-2-111-gunsmoke-games.326/post-3169
https://f95zone.to/threads/something-unlimited-v2-2-111-gunsmoke-games.326/post-3169
- Jan 24, 2018
- 1,750
- 1,580
- Apr 8, 2017
- 143
- 221
He did not attack you, only the game. And, well actually, even for me, someone who can play a Brothel Management without any art I thought than Strive for Power was crappy as hell. It is just a question of taste, you can love it as much as you want.
But, if I read you well you may appreciate Freecities with the pregmod a lot. It carries its name very well.
- Jan 24, 2018
- 1,750
- 1,580