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Halfwic

Newbie
May 22, 2021
34
71
Dev is going to be reducing the animation quality in favor of faster updates which honestly sounds like a win imo. The animations were never great(just like most games on this site) and having him pump out faster and potentially meater updates in favor of the already worst part of most VN's getting the shaft honestly sounds like a huge W for the longterm potential of this game. Faster updates means more exposure to a great story that you can tell he truly cares about which leads to more patrons which leads to more monetary incentive to keep the game going.

Also lower tier updates are coming out today and the 6th so expect this site to update the game soon
 
Sep 3, 2020
4,520
31,513
Dev is going to be reducing the animation quality in favor of faster updates which honestly sounds like a win imo. The animations were never great(just like most games on this site) and having him pump out faster and potentially meater updates in favor of the already worst part of most VN's getting the shaft honestly sounds like a huge W for the longterm potential of this game. Faster updates means more exposure to a great story that you can tell he truly cares about which leads to more patrons which leads to more monetary incentive to keep the game going.

Also lower tier updates are coming out today and the 6th so expect this site to update the game soon
baby-scream-fuck-yeah.gif
 

dreamgoat

Member
Oct 10, 2020
339
310
This isn't a good idea imo. Why waste time in an overcomplicated gameplay mechanic and paywall it on top of that?
The game needs content no more skill checks.
Yea, this is concerning. I'm still scratching my head on this on why do the paywall.
 

Capt. Fubar

Member
Sep 8, 2022
155
121
Well, it looks like an interesting story... Freyja especially. 8D

My dad used to say (with his stern but disappointed voice) "you cant turn lazy person to workaholic with money"; well, he told that to humiliate me but whatever. Wanted to share something 'bout myself.
 
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Reactions: Nulldev

madmate.games

Newbie
Game Developer
Jan 19, 2020
95
1,369
I get the part about advertising the game and quality of life upgrades just hope they aren't also trying to remaster or remake old renders. :unsure:
I believe re-making old stuff is a waste of time. So no re-makes or remasters. The thing Human Device is working on is making UI look more aestetically pleasing, replacing the basic UI I did when fiddling with photoshop. It won't have any effect on the visuals, the story, nor will it increase the development time as I am only providing some basic inputs/suggestions and few easy to make pictures of models, that's all.
Compelling narrative and characters for sure. I've actually enjoyed it more than the "official" Vampire the Masquerade visual novel, story wise, although come to think of it there are some strong similarities in plot so I imagine that inspired elements of this.
Are you talking about Coteries of NY and sequels? I only played Coteries and found it okay-ish. There is one major plot point idea that I picked up from Coteries but that's not yet in the game. Could you explain further if that's not too much to ask?
did he make onlooker and public releases before?
based on ss and patreon info - nope:unsure:
we have to start rain/leak dance, yet again, huh:BootyTime:
built up enough support (by his standards) to abandon free-sites and dirty pirates?
heh, not the first one, nor will be the last one with similar MO :BootyTime:
My dude, you need to lay off the cynicism, it's bad for your health. While I've seen devs become so self-centered, it was almost always an exception to the rule.
But anyway, I did make public releases every update, and this one shouldn't be any different. The reason why you might think otherwise is because making public announcements meant the game was pirated day0 so I stopped announcing when the public updates come.
This isn't a good idea imo. Why waste time in an overcomplicated gameplay mechanic and paywall it on top of that?
The game needs content no more skill checks.
The gameplay mechanic was already in the game. It's a standard mechanic you see in VN's that track NPC stats. The difference now is that instead of manually calculating how many stats players need to pass the threshold I just figure how difficult a check should be and leave it to Ren'Py to calculate the stuff. The implementation is not stellar, but it eases my workload and addresses potential bugs and inconsistencies.
Also, I am aware of a considerable bias on f95 for VN-style games, with any sort of deviation is considered unwanted, unnatural or sinful, but I do want to make something more than a "choose your own adventure" type of a game. I am aware that might not be ideal to some people, but that's just the way it is.
Please, somebody (some patron) tell the Author that writing "stuff" + a blank screen doesn't encourage people to become his patrons.
I... don't really get the logic here. Someone who doesn't get blank screens should tell me about how blank screens he doesn't see are bad?
But anyway, that someone could be you! And this goes for everyone else reading this as well. Like I always say, I'm always open to listening to any comment, criticism or complaint. To get in touch with me you can check my socials in the first post, or in my game. Now that I've written that down, I realized I didn't include itch.io contact in the game, so that's something I need to do for the next release.
Oh, and titles are named "stuff" because then I don't have to figure out a title every time I make a post. :WeSmart:


---
Now, there's something I'd like to address. I've already had a similar discussion with a patreon who took mostly opposite side of the argument than all the good people in this thread, so just like with him, I'd like to clarify why I'm neither angry or supportive on the whole issue of piracy.

Let's consider two distinct games. First one is some Ubisoft AAA title that made a profit but it didn't reach the board of directors expectations. The official reason is that the game was pirated almost as much as it was bought, and if only all those pirates bought the game instead of pirating it the company would've doubled their revenue.
The second one is an indie game made by one guy in his spare time who posted torrents to his product on all pirate platforms because he believes piracy is a net benefit for games.

So the question is: which of these views correct? And the answer is somewhere in between. Like I said to the patreon person who was somewhat frustrated by the pirates not respecting the developer to wait for public release (this was back in the day when I posted public updates about when the public releases are out), whether piracy is good or bad, or to use a topic closer to what's being said in this thread, whether it's smart to hide things behind paywall, depends on the strengths and weaknesses of the developer.
Ubisoft game from previous example spent tens of millions on advertisement, and had to rely on hype, convenience and DRM holding the gates to extract as much value from the potential customers. The DRM failed so Ubisoft got to scapegoat random people (most of whom never would've played the game if there was no pirated version available) for their title that didn't make 700% of the investment that they dreamed that it could.
On the other hand, the indie guy spent 0 in marketing, so he had to rely for the most part on word of mouth from his torrents to spread the awareness of his game and hope that enough good people would decide to throw some coins his way. So without piracy he would've sold a dozen copies, his game disappearing in the trash of steam, but with piracy - well he could sell 0 copies, but he also has a small chance to increase his revenue, maybe even have a very successful and beloved title with its own following.
I stand somewhere in between these cases. Without f95, I don't really have a reliable way to inform the broader public about my releases, so I can thank it and similar sites that host and promote these files for most of my success or failure. On the other hand pirating releases for clout, or worse for financial gain, hurts me as a developer as the convenience and hype factor (which are arguably two most important ones when a person decides to support a game) are gone and I have to rely on good will of the people, which is massive when taken at word, but much lesser when taken in actions.

But, I've been droning on for long enough. In the end it's an entitlement battle. Entitlement of pirates that they deserve a product of someone else's labor for free (or in my case at the same time as patreons, since I do provide free updates), and entitlement of developer who tries to get as many people to pay 5+ bucks a month for what is essentially 15 minutes of content a month. Which side is right? Well, I believe the answer is somewhere in between. :D
 

Siver#/Sh

New Member
Jan 29, 2020
12
20
But, I've been droning on for long enough. In the end it's an entitlement battle. Entitlement of pirates that they deserve a product of someone else's labor for free (or in my case at the same time as patreons, since I do provide free updates), and entitlement of developer who tries to get as many people to pay 5+ bucks a month for what is essentially 15 minutes of content a month. Which side is right? Well, I believe the answer is somewhere in between.
Since i can only speak from a user perspective- steam is the most convenient platform for those type of games/projects due to updates feature. And i would love to support you there. No pressure;).
 

Ragnar

Super User
Respected User
Former Staff
Aug 5, 2016
5,083
14,028
I believe re-making old stuff is a waste of time. So no re-makes or remasters. The thing Human Device is working on is making UI look more aestetically pleasing, replacing the basic UI I did when fiddling with photoshop. It won't have any effect on the visuals, the story, nor will it increase the development time as I am only providing some basic inputs/suggestions and few easy to make pictures of models, that's all.

Are you talking about Coteries of NY and sequels? I only played Coteries and found it okay-ish. There is one major plot point idea that I picked up from Coteries but that's not yet in the game. Could you explain further if that's not too much to ask?


My dude, you need to lay off the cynicism, it's bad for your health. While I've seen devs become so self-centered, it was almost always an exception to the rule.
But anyway, I did make public releases every update, and this one shouldn't be any different. The reason why you might think otherwise is because making public announcements meant the game was pirated day0 so I stopped announcing when the public updates come.

The gameplay mechanic was already in the game. It's a standard mechanic you see in VN's that track NPC stats. The difference now is that instead of manually calculating how many stats players need to pass the threshold I just figure how difficult a check should be and leave it to Ren'Py to calculate the stuff. The implementation is not stellar, but it eases my workload and addresses potential bugs and inconsistencies.
Also, I am aware of a considerable bias on f95 for VN-style games, with any sort of deviation is considered unwanted, unnatural or sinful, but I do want to make something more than a "choose your own adventure" type of a game. I am aware that might not be ideal to some people, but that's just the way it is.

I... don't really get the logic here. Someone who doesn't get blank screens should tell me about how blank screens he doesn't see are bad?
But anyway, that someone could be you! And this goes for everyone else reading this as well. Like I always say, I'm always open to listening to any comment, criticism or complaint. To get in touch with me you can check my socials in the first post, or in my game. Now that I've written that down, I realized I didn't include itch.io contact in the game, so that's something I need to do for the next release.
Oh, and titles are named "stuff" because then I don't have to figure out a title every time I make a post. :WeSmart:


---
Now, there's something I'd like to address. I've already had a similar discussion with a patreon who took mostly opposite side of the argument than all the good people in this thread, so just like with him, I'd like to clarify why I'm neither angry or supportive on the whole issue of piracy.

Let's consider two distinct games. First one is some Ubisoft AAA title that made a profit but it didn't reach the board of directors expectations. The official reason is that the game was pirated almost as much as it was bought, and if only all those pirates bought the game instead of pirating it the company would've doubled their revenue.
The second one is an indie game made by one guy in his spare time who posted torrents to his product on all pirate platforms because he believes piracy is a net benefit for games.

So the question is: which of these views correct? And the answer is somewhere in between. Like I said to the patreon person who was somewhat frustrated by the pirates not respecting the developer to wait for public release (this was back in the day when I posted public updates about when the public releases are out), whether piracy is good or bad, or to use a topic closer to what's being said in this thread, whether it's smart to hide things behind paywall, depends on the strengths and weaknesses of the developer.
Ubisoft game from previous example spent tens of millions on advertisement, and had to rely on hype, convenience and DRM holding the gates to extract as much value from the potential customers. The DRM failed so Ubisoft got to scapegoat random people (most of whom never would've played the game if there was no pirated version available) for their title that didn't make 700% of the investment that they dreamed that it could.
On the other hand, the indie guy spent 0 in marketing, so he had to rely for the most part on word of mouth from his torrents to spread the awareness of his game and hope that enough good people would decide to throw some coins his way. So without piracy he would've sold a dozen copies, his game disappearing in the trash of steam, but with piracy - well he could sell 0 copies, but he also has a small chance to increase his revenue, maybe even have a very successful and beloved title with its own following.
I stand somewhere in between these cases. Without f95, I don't really have a reliable way to inform the broader public about my releases, so I can thank it and similar sites that host and promote these files for most of my success or failure. On the other hand pirating releases for clout, or worse for financial gain, hurts me as a developer as the convenience and hype factor (which are arguably two most important ones when a person decides to support a game) are gone and I have to rely on good will of the people, which is massive when taken at word, but much lesser when taken in actions.

But, I've been droning on for long enough. In the end it's an entitlement battle. Entitlement of pirates that they deserve a product of someone else's labor for free (or in my case at the same time as patreons, since I do provide free updates), and entitlement of developer who tries to get as many people to pay 5+ bucks a month for what is essentially 15 minutes of content a month. Which side is right? Well, I believe the answer is somewhere in between. :D
Some devs have patreon posts open for everyone. I'm not talking about game updates, I'm talking about day to day "stuff". You were talking about advertisement in big games, well, you NEED advertisement more than those well known big companies.
You're a niche dev in a small market, the Patreon market. You should be doing pr for your game in different places like Reddit and so on, sharing renders and news now and then. All that is to gain more followers = more money for your project.
Just my two cents based on what other devs do in this community. Of course you have to do what's more convenient for you.
 
Jun 20, 2018
243
267
Are you talking about Coteries of NY and sequels? I only played Coteries and found it okay-ish. There is one major plot point idea that I picked up from Coteries but that's not yet in the game. Could you explain further if that's not too much to ask?
I thought Coteries was mediocre, while I think your game is excellent. I don't see yours as derivative of it at all.

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tortorus

Member
Aug 29, 2018
152
175
english is not my first language sorry for errors...

Mr madmate.game,

you know, your game have a nice start but you are an anonymous, you haven t complet anything and your game is pretty young, it's a little conceited to compare yourself to a triple a studio and want already have thousands... you want be pay for your work, i can understand this, but patreon already give you some money, and if you are good with your work people of f95 will become your patreon, yes it s a pirate site, but it s also a stock of people who can support your work, then like all the dev here it s your interest in sharing your game, but you have to prove yourself first as i say this little demo doesn't prove anything yet... look for what a legend, or harem hotel, one with graphic handmade, one with a really good story, no need to put a paywall for them, they patreon give them a lot of money, and where all the patron come from...? of pirate. Like i heard once " pirate site, it s better to work with them than against them"
i think greedy dev don t last long (no offence), i ve seen a lot just give up because they not take off like they want because of there behavior to want more money quickly with a little of work... and i think you go just this way...
Again no offence you do what you want...
You know i don t support with money dev who have not finish at least one game, and don t purchase a vn not finish by a dev who have not complet at least one game (but if you finish it and it s worth i will buy it, thanks to f95 i can see if it worth my money or not)... scam are legion in porn game, milker even more... And your word are not worth much compared to your actions, at the end of the day we will see your work, the time and what you have do and it s what matter.

Good luck with your game Mr dev, the start is nice.

ps patreon don t pay you for update but to support you and your work, so nobody pay you for update so technically you are devivering update for free to everybody... unless you go to sell your game in early access...
 
Last edited:

madmate.games

Newbie
Game Developer
Jan 19, 2020
95
1,369
I thought Coteries was mediocre, while I think your game is excellent. I don't see yours as derivative of it at all.

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Ah, gotcha. Honestly, I don't even remember who sired the MC :D And thank you for your high praise.

english is not my first language sorry for errors...

Mr madmate.game,

you know, your game have a nice start but you are an anonymous, you haven t complet anything and your game is pretty young, it's a little conceited to compare yourself to a triple a studio and want already have thousands... you want be pay for your work, i can understand this, but patreon already give you some money, and if you are good with your work people of f95 will become your patreon, yes it s a pirate site, but it s also a stock of people who can support your work, then like all the dev here it s your interest in sharing your game, but you have to prove yourself first as i say this little demo doesn't prove anything yet... look for what a legend, or harem hotel, one with graphic handmade, one with a really good story, no need to put a paywall for them, they patreon give them a lot of money, and where all the patron come from...? of pirate. Like i heard once " pirate site, it s better to work with them than against them"
i think greedy dev don t last long (no offence), i ve seen a lot just give up because they not take off like they want because of there behavior to want more money quickly with a little of work... and i think you go just this way...
Again no offence you do what you want...
You know i don t support with money dev who have not finish at least one game, and don t purchase a vn not finish by a dev who have not complet at least one game (but if you finish it and it s worth i will buy it, thanks to f95 i can see if it worth my money or not)... scam are legion in porn game, milker even more... And your word are not worth much compared to your actions, at the end of the day we will see your work, the time and what you have do and it s what matter.

Good luck with your game Mr dev, the start is nice.

ps patreon don t pay you for update but to support you and your work, so nobody pay you for update so technically you are devivering update for free to everybody... unless you go to sell your game in early access...
I'm not a native English speaker either, which is probably why there seems to be a misunderstanding. Everything I wrote about was a hypothetical simplification. I don't compare myself to a AAA studio, nor do I compare myself to the hypothetical indie developer I wrote about. And I hope you weren't offended by mentioning piracy in my little rant. My intention was to present things objectively, if reductive, from several different points of view. You have to understand that this is a very complex subject that there are many facets of and which is hard to explore or understand fully and requires a much broader point of view to grasp.

I also wouldn't categorize vast majority of games as scams or developers as milkers. To be perfectly honest, even after all this time developing I still make the mistake to underestimate the amount of work and pressure that goes into making a game. Truth be told, I do sympathize with your view point as back when I wasn't a developer my reaction was similar to yours, though maybe a bit less jaded and defensive. Whenever I read something about a developer having some sort of a breakdown, their project being late, or complaining about something my first, and often only reaction was to roll my eyes.
And yet here I am, constantly running late, this last update breaking all records being almost 4 months late because of all sorts of issues. And before you ask, I paused the payments during that time so I wasn't "milking" my patreons or supporters. So just because people aren't able to match yours or my high standards doesn't mean they are evil or exploitative people... As they say, shit happens.

Anyway, thank you for your kind wishes, and one last piece of advice from someone who had a similar thought pattern in the past: don't be so quick to judge, it might come back to bite you in the ass, just like in my case. :D
 

Strangejay

Newbie
Aug 1, 2021
26
15
Ah, gotcha. Honestly, I don't even remember who sired the MC :D And thank you for your high praise.


I'm not a native English speaker either, which is probably why there seems to be a misunderstanding. Everything I wrote about was a hypothetical simplification. I don't compare myself to a AAA studio, nor do I compare myself to the hypothetical indie developer I wrote about. And I hope you weren't offended by mentioning piracy in my little rant. My intention was to present things objectively, if reductive, from several different points of view. You have to understand that this is a very complex subject that there are many facets of and which is hard to explore or understand fully and requires a much broader point of view to grasp.

I also wouldn't categorize vast majority of games as scams or developers as milkers. To be perfectly honest, even after all this time developing I still make the mistake to underestimate the amount of work and pressure that goes into making a game. Truth be told, I do sympathize with your view point as back when I wasn't a developer my reaction was similar to yours, though maybe a bit less jaded and defensive. Whenever I read something about a developer having some sort of a breakdown, their project being late, or complaining about something my first, and often only reaction was to roll my eyes.
And yet here I am, constantly running late, this last update breaking all records being almost 4 months late because of all sorts of issues. And before you ask, I paused the payments during that time so I wasn't "milking" my patreons or supporters. So just because people aren't able to match yours or my high standards doesn't mean they are evil or exploitative people... As they say, shit happens.

Anyway, thank you for your kind wishes, and one last piece of advice from someone who had a similar thought pattern in the past: don't be so quick to judge, it might come back to bite you in the ass, just like in my case. :D
Sir when will the update is going to be available here..???
 

tortorus

Member
Aug 29, 2018
152
175
Ah, gotcha. Honestly, I don't even remember who sired the MC :D And thank you for your high praise.


I'm not a native English speaker either, which is probably why there seems to be a misunderstanding. Everything I wrote about was a hypothetical simplification. I don't compare myself to a AAA studio, nor do I compare myself to the hypothetical indie developer I wrote about. And I hope you weren't offended by mentioning piracy in my little rant. My intention was to present things objectively, if reductive, from several different points of view. You have to understand that this is a very complex subject that there are many facets of and which is hard to explore or understand fully and requires a much broader point of view to grasp.

I also wouldn't categorize vast majority of games as scams or developers as milkers. To be perfectly honest, even after all this time developing I still make the mistake to underestimate the amount of work and pressure that goes into making a game. Truth be told, I do sympathize with your view point as back when I wasn't a developer my reaction was similar to yours, though maybe a bit less jaded and defensive. Whenever I read something about a developer having some sort of a breakdown, their project being late, or complaining about something my first, and often only reaction was to roll my eyes.
And yet here I am, constantly running late, this last update breaking all records being almost 4 months late because of all sorts of issues. And before you ask, I paused the payments during that time so I wasn't "milking" my patreons or supporters. So just because people aren't able to match yours or my high standards doesn't mean they are evil or exploitative people... As they say, shit happens.

Anyway, thank you for your kind wishes, and one last piece of advice from someone who had a similar thought pattern in the past: don't be so quick to judge, it might come back to bite you in the ass, just like in my case. :D
i was not offenced, and i hope i don t offence you either, i was just talk about your and my opinion, english is not very good at subtleties, i was not angry or anything... and like i said you do what you want.
well there are a lot of scams just in this forum try to go in this forum last update and look for abandoned in statut: tag 124 pages, try complet game 345 pages then you can see half of the game will be abandonned before complet... 50% is enought for me to say scam are legion and milker even more, but you can beleve what you like...
You know time is not really a important factor for me, it help to see if devs are lazy milkers or not... what matters is the finished game, i gladly wait a year for an update od what a legend, because i know it will worth it. few month are nothing if the amont of work is in it. But like i said, i know nothing about you yet, all i see is what you are doing since 1 year and half, when i begin to look for your game, and it s just a start. you know i read fast and your game doesn t have a hour of game play for me...
And between us i developed game too as codder, but not porn game, i know exactly the time it take to complete a project from nothing... But i will say it again, don t be too hasty with the making money and focus on you game, it will come naturally with patreon no need for paywall (i seen a lot of dev making flee potiential patreon with them because majority of dev here don t do that), but an awersome story (i hope you have already write the majority of it...) and good graphics.

again good luck with your game M dev.
 
Last edited:

BYK370

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2020
1,124
441
guys i'm new to this game, can we able sleep in this game? because i got a few quest but most of them were daytime quest so i don't know how to pass time anyone?
 

cxx

Message Maestro
Nov 14, 2017
66,657
33,606
guys i'm new to this game, can we able sleep in this game? because i got a few quest but most of them were daytime quest so i don't know how to pass time anyone?
yes once everything done what mc can do.
 

BYK370

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2020
1,124
441
yes once everything done what mc can do.
Well that’s weird cause I think I already done everything and the rest of the new quests require me to go at day time but now is night time but I don’t know how to progress more further of the story
 

cxx

Message Maestro
Nov 14, 2017
66,657
33,606
Well that’s weird cause I think I already done everything and the rest of the new quests require me to go at day time but now is night time but I don’t know how to progress more further of the story
depends on what point you are, possible that you can't do some quests yet due game not updated that far.
 

BYK370

Well-Known Member
Apr 29, 2020
1,124
441
depends on what point you are, possible that you can't do some quests yet due game not updated that far.
now i have these quests list, i try went to Shevaun and Zoey house one of the message say Shevaun sleeping at this hour and Zoey not at home now. then i try went to the Moghila estate & Violet Lip club but it say no need to go there right now so yeah i pretty much stuck at this point and i cant sleep either
 

Ragnar

Super User
Respected User
Former Staff
Aug 5, 2016
5,083
14,028
now i have these quests list, i try went to Shevaun and Zoey house one of the message say Shevaun sleeping at this hour and Zoey not at home now. then i try went to the Moghila estate & Violet Lip club but it say no need to go there right now so yeah i pretty much stuck at this point and i cant sleep either
Check the pc at your home I think.
 
4.50 star(s) 74 Votes