Fulminato
Well-Known Member
- Oct 17, 2017
- 1,619
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- Thread starter Vanderer
- Start date
I really appreciate this game so I'll label this only as a small nitpick, but it's one that's been nagging at me for some time now (might be getting worse as I can't say I noticed this tendency earlier in the game) and that is the use of modern expressions of our world in this medieval fantasy world. Expressions like ''don't be a Debbie Downer'' or ''They fucked around and found out'' totally take me out of this alternate world you've created for us.
This is a world with its own Gods, its own culture, its own lifeforms and history so it's kind of jarring that they use our modern colloquialisms. What a missed opportunity to come up with uniquely invented ones to fit this world!
Again, it's not the biggest deal in the world but I also think this game is better than that. After all the work Tolkien put into world and culture building, could you imagine how disappointing it might be if when it came to dialogue he had his characters say stuff like ''Let's keep it 100 between the homies of the fellowship'' or ''I didn't do it for the Shire, I did it for da 'gram''?
This is a world with its own Gods, its own culture, its own lifeforms and history so it's kind of jarring that they use our modern colloquialisms. What a missed opportunity to come up with uniquely invented ones to fit this world!
Again, it's not the biggest deal in the world but I also think this game is better than that. After all the work Tolkien put into world and culture building, could you imagine how disappointing it might be if when it came to dialogue he had his characters say stuff like ''Let's keep it 100 between the homies of the fellowship'' or ''I didn't do it for the Shire, I did it for da 'gram''?
- Dec 8, 2017
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English is not my first language, it's my third and I learned it as an autodidact. As such, I have holes in my language. I do think I got better compared when I started TFS, though.
But it's hard for me to always be sure of how an expression will "sound". For example, after looking into it, I never would have thought the "Debbie Downer" was from SNL in 2004.
And let be honest, I am no Tolkien. The man was a linguist, for fuck sake. Inventing my own colloquialisms? I am gonna be honest: I am not proficient enough in English to do that.
The tone of the text is something that's complicated. I do try to use some oldish English words, like thankee for example (thanks master and commander and his author Patrick O'brian, for that one), but on the other hand, medieval english is something that's incomprehensible by a modern audience. Hell, English had something called the Great Vowel Shift in the late middle age/renaissance that completely changed the way vowels are pronunced. It's complicated.
New, I am not against changing a thing or two, the two examples you gave are too modern, true, and I probably will change them in the future but I am going to miss some due to my background, that's for sure.
UnoriginalUserName
Forum Fanatic
- Sep 3, 2017
- 5,048
- 18,024
That isn't necessarily a bad thing. He got a bit..."wordy" with his descriptions of scenes. I'd rather not have an entire update dedicated to the MC walking past a rock.
Tolkien wouldn't, but Shakespeare did. I expect he had critics complaining about his use of contemporary language in his historical works, too. I understand your point, and I'm sorry it's an approach that doesn't work for you, but for me, Athagan yelling "CLUSTERFUCK" did a perfectly good job communicating his state of mind and is the kind of language expected from the military leader he is.
sadfuck
Member
- Jan 22, 2021
- 113
- 568
Welp, so much for my fantasy of Tom Bombadil coming in and cucking Henry...
On a more serious note, while I definitely agree it would be good to avoid modern slang and expressions and too much cussing, you're doing great, Vanderer!
Ya I see nothing wrong with using modern colloquialisms. This isn't a medieval story, its an entirely different world with entirely different technological and cultural development. Despite most people still using horse and cart their magical technology puts them closer to our own age's technological development than the middle age's. In some ways less advanced than we currently are, in other ways more advanced. It's not weird that their language would be developed similar to ours and for me at least it makes it easier to relate it to my modern self.
e6mill
Forum Fanatic
- Aug 4, 2022
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Normally I'd point out that they're unlikely to actually be using English, but I believe I saw English dictionaries on the shelves in Athagan's Treasury and/or Princess Sarah's library.
But, what if it's a really nice rock!That isn't necessarily a bad thing. He got a bit..."wordy" with his descriptions of scenes. I'd rather not have an entire update dedicated to the MC walking past a rock.
- Dec 8, 2017
- 854
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Clusterfuck is from the 60's actually, so not so recent.
Yeah, there is one of two anachronism too. Like I try to avoid zippers, but one or two can be seen. I just do not have enough medieval mods and need to improvise sometimes.Normally I'd point out that they're unlikely to actually be using English, but I believe I saw English dictionaries on the shelves in Athagan's Treasury and/or Princess Sarah's library.
e6mill
Forum Fanatic
- Aug 4, 2022
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Makes 2 of us.Clusterfuck is from the 60's actually, so not so recent.
It's not our Earth. Zippers could prized Dwarven tech or something.
Didn't mean to sound critical at all, just pointing out that they do apparently use English.
This is also a fictional universe with magic and dragon and traversable plains and need not conform to the earths medieval technology, but I also understand that some times it just a lack of available assets. Now if you are claiming this is earths distant past and not an alternate universe you should be more strict about this kinds of things.
The language can also be exsplained as a story being retold and the story teller is taking some liberties with the language, but I can also understand it can be jaring. It’s typically a question of how far you are willing to suspend your disbelief for a good story. And in my option this is a good story.
Though more questing and less weddings......just saying.
The language can also be exsplained as a story being retold and the story teller is taking some liberties with the language, but I can also understand it can be jaring. It’s typically a question of how far you are willing to suspend your disbelief for a good story. And in my option this is a good story.
Though more questing and less weddings......just saying.
Will there be a timeskip to foward the story more in the future? feels like the story doesnt really move forward that much anymore
RomanOrc
New Member
- Oct 30, 2023
- 13
- 20
yea we cant use earth english as an example. for example, even tho this is medieval, theoretically because of magic its possible that they discovered a way to power cities with magic. So using our own idea of "whats normal" would be stupid. In my example of powering cities wwith magic they could have made generators that use the ambiant magic to power the cities OR mages could charge stones or objects with magic and then use runes to transcribe for "lightning magic" on some piece that converts the magic into lightning essentially. Then use magic to store said power in another device (kind of like our batteries BUT using magic and runes to hol the charge) then when someone flips a switch it would turn on the power . So if that sort of thing is possible whos to say that language couldnt have been advanced as well.
Those are just examples, im not saying the game needs to go in that direction, but ya ALSO even the language could even be explained by magic, That what is being said in game isnt actually english but a whole different language but us as the reader are able to "understand" it due to it being translated by a magical device that translates it into what we can understand
. So if that sort of thing is possible whos to say that language couldnt have been advanced as well. Those are just examples, im not saying the game needs to go in that direction, but ya
ALSO even the language could even be explained by magic, That what is being said in game isnt actually english but a whole different language but us as the reader are able to "understand" it due to it being translated by a magical device that translates it into what we can understand Recently found this game and quite enjoying the story, quite intresting.
Looking forward to see how it ends.
Looking forward to see how it ends.
RobLocksley
Member
- Oct 7, 2023
- 211
- 97
Sorry to hear about leak (I'm waiting until official release date to play) but good majority of supporters are from here so I agree less likely many/most would stop supporting. They get to communicate with Vander and get asked/polled and give feedback/input before releases, right, and that's a benefit? I endorse pirating from oppressive large/multinational companies/corporations but don't think my namesake would endorse on smaller creators like Vander rather than wanting to help.
Applying modern standards to a Mediaeval setting makes no sense. For the setting, he simply doesn't look like a homeless man in the least, because that would include several/many more aspects such as somewhat if not entirely uncut/long, messy hair (top, beard, despite many ancient beggars not portrayed so in modern fiction) (Henri always looks neat/clean-shaven), very ragged/dirty clothes (including entirely worn/nonexistent shoes), commonly infestation (insects, disease), etc. In some ancient societies, it was in fact opposite: poor people wouldn't be allowed long hair when that's part of higher social status/class, or at very least such poor/serfs wouldn't fit in their own social class, being seen as going against their family or social norms/class.
Similar situation is characters claiming they smell bad after a few mere hours/days of action. I know the medical situation is better in TFS than historical Mediaeval, but don't know air conditioning situation, etc., and in historical Mediaeval, even monarchs bathed once/season... commoners/freemen less often (unless maybe near a water body). When I see them say this like a modern city person with highest social standards (especially characters from commoner background) I chuckle.Even today in parts of Europe and less rich parts of The West, some prefer bathing once/week even if moderately active not just sitting around not sweating (maybe longer then). USA has excessive obsession with bathing to extent is unhealthy a few ways (don't want to diverge on that) but maybe is influencing Anglosphere, rest of The_West/Europe on that besides other bad topics (dialect, food, etc.)... That being said, there's presumably some influence from other ancient cultures such as Rome--Roman baths--and it's a good part of the game's story/setting.
The original hairstyle looks great! Long hair for men was common (as often were beards) across much ancient world and persists in some societies that have unbroken history to then. It was standard in Mesopotamia where The Fiery Scion's (TFS) divinities are from. It was standard for some/much of Greece including some intellectuals, and most famous military state in history: Spartan soldier-citizens (Greek armour influenced TFS). For some/much Teutonic/Germanic (including Anglo-Saxon/English) & apparently Celtic world (Northern & Western, NW Europe) long hair symbolised being freemen (middle to noble classes... case in point being my Robin Hood avatar) which there's a strong NW European influence in the game, so I don't think hairstyle is out of place. The freeman/warrior (considered ultramasculine) hairstyle continued into Renaissance & Enlightenment/Reason Eras of Europe, and founding of USA, and 1800s intellectuals, and continued as such a little throughout 1900s to now. When I was a teen, it was popular among nonconformist/avant-garde intellectuals, descendants of hippies & other musicians/fans (heavy metal rock & roll, etc.) and still is in some such circles.
Applying modern standards to a Mediaeval setting makes no sense. For the setting, he simply doesn't look like a homeless man in the least, because that would include several/many more aspects such as somewhat if not entirely uncut/long, messy hair (top, beard, despite many ancient beggars not portrayed so in modern fiction) (Henri always looks neat/clean-shaven), very ragged/dirty clothes (including entirely worn/nonexistent shoes), commonly infestation (insects, disease), etc. In some ancient societies, it was in fact opposite: poor people wouldn't be allowed long hair when that's part of higher social status/class, or at very least such poor/serfs wouldn't fit in their own social class, being seen as going against their family or social norms/class.
Similar situation is characters claiming they smell bad after a few mere hours/days of action. I know the medical situation is better in TFS than historical Mediaeval, but don't know air conditioning situation, etc., and in historical Mediaeval, even monarchs bathed once/season... commoners/freemen less often (unless maybe near a water body). When I see them say this like a modern city person with highest social standards (especially characters from commoner background) I chuckle.Even today in parts of Europe and less rich parts of The West, some prefer bathing once/week even if moderately active not just sitting around not sweating (maybe longer then). USA has excessive obsession with bathing to extent is unhealthy a few ways (don't want to diverge on that) but maybe is influencing Anglosphere, rest of The_West/Europe on that besides other bad topics (dialect, food, etc.)... That being said, there's presumably some influence from other ancient cultures such as Rome--Roman baths--and it's a good part of the game's story/setting.
While Aetas seems to have NW European influence, I don't assume anyone in the game speaks English unless parallel Earth where Aetas is another name for somewhere they would've/could've spoken English. I assume it's mostly/all translated, or English (or French?) only as coincidence, but without some/any cultural refereces embedded (Anglia & Saxony, Anglo-Saxon/English, etc.). Though we saw 'English dictionaries', that may be mainly because what 3D book models are available and look good... maybe translated for us also. Doesn't really matter: readable either way. I think of it more as Aetan, etc., that either has many same words (coincidence) or just works for the game.
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At the end of the game, it will be revealed that Enya is telling the story via telepathy and it’s just being translated.
That's the magic of fiction, you get to make stuff up!
That's the magic of fiction, you get to make stuff up!
PumperFull
Formerly 'PumperFull69'
- Aug 27, 2020
- 138
- 165
Well, I must say, I don't play every update, I usually wait a couple or more. This has been an excellent adventure so far. Thank you Vanderer for your hard work and determination. You're doing an incredible job.
Cheers, and I wish you well and peace.
Cheers, and I wish you well and peace.