VN Ren'Py The Fiery Scion [Update 28a] [Vander]

[FrozenPie1]

well you're not entirely wrong.
but athagan was always around,he basicly raised him during his puberty stage ,he met karla and had a daughter.
he got some things going for him.

I think that's the only reason why he still has some kind of touch with reality. But Athagan raised him to be a combat mage (like himself as he has experience with that) and he represents a mentor and a leader who already lived a long life, so the MC copied much of his behavior. However Athagans behavior stems from decades of life experiences and knowledge which the MC doesn't have, so he can't correlate certain behavior patterns to their respective causes. And the brain, doing what it's supposed to do, fills these missing spots and connections with other only marginally related stuff or even makes things up to achieve plausibility. These fillers in turn cause wrong expectations, self-perception issues, lack of self-reflection, etc.

overal i'd she he came out alright,aside from some anger controle issue's and lack of social "grace"/skills.
but do remember the MC having those kinda issue's is part off the story as intended.

That it's intended I know, but there are surprisingly few to no oppositions to his ways even if he rubs people the wrong way rather obvious. Which you would expect if you have scenarios where his shortcomings show themselves. The "world" doesn't really react to it as you would expect. I can only imagine that it's because of the way society/the world views mages and men, being way more lenient than it would be good for him. To make matters worse, the people respect/fear power (like everywhere), so him having so much power causes (normal) people to rather keep their mouth shut in fear the MC could be having one of his temper tantrums. The saying "It takes a village to raise a child." exists for a reason.

i wouldn't say PTSD from the events around his mothers death but it left some kinda trauma for sure.

PTSD -> Post Traumatic Stress Disorder -> Some kind of trauma
Well, being this young, losing your mother in front of you, gaining an extreme power surge while at the same time killing innocents will overload every brain at that age. If the brain can't process these events, it either developes coping mechanisms to deal with it (like a short fuse to regain emotional balance and direct your emotions in the easiest form of the emotion "anger" somewhere) or these experiences get "awakened" again by certain triggers, reliving the experience in a desperate try to process it eventually.

 

[HiHaHo]

I think that's the only reason why he still has some kind of touch with reality. But Athagan raised him to be a combat mage (like himself as he has experience with that) and he represents a mentor and a leader who already lived a long life, so the MC copied much of his behavior. However Athagans behavior stems from decades of life experiences and knowledge which the MC doesn't have, so he can't correlate certain behavior patterns to their respective causes. And the brain, doing what it's supposed to do, fills these missing spots and connections with other only marginally related stuff or even makes things up to achieve plausibility. These fillers in turn cause wrong expectations, self-perception issues, lack of self-reflection, etc.

i'd say this greatly depends on how he copied said behaviours if athagan did a good job and explain how and why could've given the MC better insight.
quite possible said fillers did happen and that it CAN "wrong expectations, self-perception issues, lack of self-reflection, etc."
but it isn't a garenthee.
i think this a very psychological approach on it all, and phsycology is a soft science for a reason.

all in all i'd say:sure this can and does happen IRL,but this is fiction so i doubt it will go like that.

PTSD -> Post Traumatic Stress Disorder -> Some kind of trauma
Well, being this young, losing your mother in front of you, gaining an extreme power surge while at the same time killing innocents will overload every brain at that age. If the brain can't process these events, it either developes coping mechanisms to deal with it (like a short fuse to regain emotional balance and direct your emotions in the easiest form of the emotion "anger" somewhere) or these experiences get "awakened" again by certain triggers, reliving the experience in a desperate try to process it eventually.

yeah sorry i keep forgetting PTSD is kinda a catch-all phrase ,but i keep thinking being its the replacement for shell shocked its more war trauma related, so its hard to say PTSD instead of trauma for me (and yes trauma is a catch all to )

but i'd say anger isn't the only thing though,guilt for killing the 2 bystanders is a big part off the whole event.
again nudging things towards a more balanced scale.

 

[FrozenPie1]

i think this a very psychological approach on it all, and phsycology is a soft science for a reason.

Yeah, my main point wasn't to come to a solution for anything, sorry if that was the impression I gave ^^
The thing that just irks, or rather bothers, me is that the MC can be insufferable and nobody bats an eye, rather they idolize him. The reactions and behavior of everyone around him doesn't really make any sense to me, except for everyone fears him and doesn't want to get on his bad side so they just let any and every impulse he has slide. But in this environment, no really character developement can take place. Quite the opposite, he gets confirmed/reinforced in his behavior and point of view.

yeah sorry i keep forgetting PTSD is kinda a catch-all phrase ,but i keep thinking being its the replacement for shell shocked its more war trauma related, so its hard to say PTSD instead of trauma for me (and yes trauma is a catch all to )

Yeah well, I can understand that. If I wouldn't have to deep dive into that stuff the last couple of years because of personal/family circumstances I would most likely share the same "general" view.

 

[HiHaHo]

Yeah, my main point wasn't to come to a solution to anything, sorry if that was the impression I gave ^^
The thing that just irks, ro rather bothers, me is that the MC can be insufferable and nobody bats an eye, rather they idolize him. The reactions and behavior of everyone around him doesn't really make any sense to me, except for everyone fears him and doesn't want to get on his bad side so they just let any and every impulse he has slide.

bro i very much like these kinda back & forth things.
and you made valid observations and did so only attacking perspectives and arguments ,never the man ,keeping it this civil on this site ... that's rare.

 

[FrozenPie1]

bro i very much like these kinda back & forth things.
and you made valid observations and did so only attacking perspectives and arguments ,never the man ,keeping it this civil on this site ... that's rare.

What I began with posting here today: Empathy, Sensitivity and Understanding (Level headedness too). The MC surely would have wrote differently here

 

[HiHaHo]

What I began with posting here today: Empathy, Sensitivity and Understanding (Level headedness too). The MC surely would have wrote differently here

probably,but he has shown moments off self- perception/reflections,like in the cabin after killing/letting go the kid troll or talking to athagan about losing his cool when he first met Arwen on the road.

and the MC has a lot off reason why people might hold their tongue, he's a powerfull combat-mage,heir to wildale, rich etc.
also being one off the few "good" men is a reason why some women might look the other way or be ignorant about some things.

still its fiction and yeah he has his flaws which just add depth to his character,i like this disagreement about his character a lot more then the one about his hair

 

[FrozenPie1]

probably,but he has shown moments off self- perception/reflections,like in the cabin after killing/letting go the kid troll or talking to athagan about losing his cool when he first met Arwen on the road.

and the MC has a lot off reason why people might hold their tongue, he's a powerfull combat-mage,heir to wildale, rich etc.
also being one off the few "good" men is a reason why some women might look the other way or be ignorant about some things.

still its fiction and yeah he has his flaws which just add depth to his character,i like this disagreement about his character a lot more then the one about his hair

Rays of light in the darkness
But seriously, yes it's good that he has these moments, but they have to be more frequent for him to really learn what it means to be a "proper human being" in lack of a better description. Self-reflection and -developement is a continous process and certain situations should only be the catalysts for further developements and not the only thing that pushes you forward. Otherwise his character developement will be awfully slow. He has his faults, more than enough, so I would say there is more than enough chances for decent character developement even if the pace picks really up. During this course he would also have to reevaluate his past decisions and maybe accept that he was at fault there.

Regarding the hair: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I would say "artistic freedom" and that's good the way it is ^^
But that's also the reason why people like to argue about that and these discussions get heated. If you can't reason with logic, you reason with emotion. And sadly emotion always overrides logic in the human brain (you can't think straight in emotionally loaded situations without really forcing yourself and even then your prioritization is still off). You can see that nearly everywhere, especially for the rule "Truth is what feels true and not what actually is true", also known as "Perceived truth". Blame the evolution for it

 

[HiHaHo]

Rays of light in the darkness
But seriously, yes it's good that he has these moments, but they have to be more frequent for him to really learn what it means to be a "proper human being" in lack of a better description. Otherwise his character developement will be awefully slow. He has his faults, more than enough, so I would say there is more than enough chances for decent character developement even if the pace picks really up.

remember it's only been about a month since he left the tower,and he spends most off time with his party on road,or in the castle with his family.
vanderer is active on f95,maybe he'll take a few notes from the back & forth.

Regarding the hair: Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I would say "artistic freedom" and that's good the way it is ^^
But that's also the reason why people like to argue about that and these discussions get heated. If you can't reason with logic, you reason with emotion. And sadly emotion always overrides logic in the human brain (you can't think straight in emotionally loaded situations without really forcing yourself and even then your prioritization is still off). You can see that nearly everywhere, especially for the rule "Truth is what feels true and not what really is true", also known as "Perceived truth". Blame the evolution for it

funny thing is vanderer actually agrees with the hair not being good,but its more a technical thing(lack off choice's in the software) then a "artistic freedom" thing.

 

[FrozenPie1]

remember it's only been about a month since he left the tower,and he spends most off time with his party on road,or in the castle with his family.
vanderer is active on f95,maybe he'll take a few notes from the back & forth.

Really? Felt like a year and a half lol
Maybe it isn't the best course of action to let somebody so inexperienced roam the world stumbling from one thing into the other. It has to be a very big sensory overload after years of only meeting one to two persons în the same secluded area at the same time and not for long, before being thrown out into the world, meeting dozens of people and having one adventure after the other. Factoring everything in I give the MC about two more months before he burns out, literally and metaphorically

funny thing is vanderer actually agrees with the hair not being good,but its more a technical thing(lack off choice's in the software) then a "artistic freedom" thing.

Hair is one of the most complicated things in computer graphics. In real time it either looks static/bad or is really computation intensive while still being perceived wrong and unnatural.

Edit: I rember now what character trait the MC is missing the most and the word I was searching for the entire time: Humility/Modesty.
Not the kind of you say or do if somebody praises or rewards you, but the one where you take a step back and observe, acknowledging that you lack information/experience/wisdom, ask questions to better understand and fill informational holes, let things play out until you think you can chime in without any hiccups and can contribute while seeing others eye to eye. Let somebody else take the lead if they're better suited for this specific subject, etc.

 

[kMimster]

Might be, but that's the stuff tyrants are made of and I dread the day Athagan dies (or retires), putting the MC effectively in charge.
The MC will need a reality check, sooner or later and one way or the other, teaching him that he's not always right, that his choices can and will put others (directly or indirectly) in serious or even life threatening danger and that his actions can cause animosity and suffering which will not put him but his loved ones in danger. He will one day have to learn that force, strong headedness, conviction, principles, etc. cannot solve everything (e.g. a situation where all the power he has is useless and he has to make sacrifices and live with them), especially if you force them on people who realistically can't do or live by them. And he especially has to learn that everyone else has made different living experiences, causing them to perceive the world differently and therefore act different if given a situation. Character growth would be the keyword. His harem isn't helping in that regard as they idolize him and are effectively forming an echo-chamber amplifying his believe in himself while caressing his ego.

Now your reading to much in to it and maybe projecting some as well. Don't forget this is A Story, not a real life and that's a massive difference! You cant look real life and fantasy story with the same magnifier!

 

[FrozenPie1]

Now your reading to much in to it and maybe projecting some as well. Don't forget this is A Story, not a real life and that's a massive difference! You cant look real life and fantasy story with the same magnifier!

For that I will quote Tom Clancy: “The difference between fiction and reality? Fiction has to make sense.”

In a fictional story the behavior of the characters and the world has to make sense. In reality the "make sense"-part is optional because it's reality even if it makes sense or not. That's why you can and usually do read so much into a fictional story, as you expect everything to be connected in this little world the author has created.

 

[RikiTikiTavi77]

I think the MC is pretty awesome and has good priorities and drives. Given that he can melt people with a thought and is probably one of the most powerful beings in existence I would actually consider him well balanced mentally and more humble than insufferable. He even takes criticism, is willing to apologize for his own anger, consider being wrong, despite his anger usually being quite moral and protective. I am in no hurry for Athagan to completely pass the torch, as he is amazing, but I think he's prepared his heir quite well and made excellent choices as well. Van has created my favorite D&D campaign... that I would not at all want to role play with another dude lol.

 

[HiHaHo]

Edit: I rember now what character trait the MC is missing the most and the word I was searching for the entire time: Humility/Modesty.
Not the kind of you say or do if somebody praises or rewards you, but the one where you take a step back and observe, acknowledging that you lack information/experience/wisdom, ask questions to better understand and fill informational holes, let things play out until you think you can chime in without any hiccups and can contribute while seeing others eye to eye. Let somebody else take the lead if they're better suited for this specific subject, etc.

you mean a situation like where he let Sariel lead his marriage engagement to Valarie?
sure he admitted he was attracted to her,but Sariel did the marriage arrangement,and she's not even his head of house,athagan is.

or are you looking for the kinda Humility/Modesty one gets from being shown you're actually not the best at what your best thing is?
like hes a powerful combat-mage yet athagan beat him in duel's a lot when was still in the tower,and even recently on his return trip to wildale?