VN Ren'Py The Fiery Scion [Update 29c] [Vander]

[falconhawk223]

you know what "serfdom" mean?

You might want to read the comment above you

 

[HiHaHo]

So I don't how how differently the dev set up his fantasy world and maybe it works differently than in real life, but In real life that's how medieval marriages worked. In real life Matrilineal marriages were literally only about inheritance. It does not apply to anything else. Step children do not become part of the household wife's household, only the biological children between the husband and the tile owning wife would become a part of it. It's not like modern times were you marry someone and get their last name and that name would pass down to every kid you'd have after the name change. Even when in feudal times when land holding women married men their holdings didn't automatically become their husbands. Their husbands might manage their property but it was still technically their wives and if the couple divorced the wife would still have those territories while the husband would lose control of it, but that type of stuff generally didn't happen with matrilineal marriages in the first place and the two weren't equal and men in matrilineal marriages usually had more freedom than the reverse. Men in matrilineal marriages would still manage and have complete control over their own territory and would often be co rulers to their wife's territory.

The idea that the mc's other wives and other children would automatically become part of Sarah's house if he married Sarah matrilineally is completely false. They'd be completely unaffected by the marriage. They wouldnt be considered a branch or bastard either they'd just be considered part of the mc's original house and wouldn't inherit anything from Sarah. Matrilineal marriages were more like an alliance between households rather than taking a new family name like in modern times. Even if it was the adopted dad doesn't mind either so I don't see why it would be a problem anyway


You already pointed out that he's legally allowed to refuse so it wouldn't matter if he accepted this one or not. He doesn't suddenly revoke that privilege for all time by accepting once and the Queen still outranks him no matter what.

No,my problem was him being up in arms about a matrilineal marriage. I already said him being forced to marry is a reasonable thing to get upset about. I just said that I personally wouldn't have cared as long as it's someone I'm already interested in and not a total stranger. He already said though that the main reason why he's objecting is because it's matrilineal. That's the thing that annoys me and caused me to dislike him. Not the fact he said no, but because it seemed like his main issue was his ego

No, I meant that's not how medieval marriages work. A man in a matrilineal marriage wouldn't just become completely subservient to his wife.

guess it really just comes down to not agreeing with the why then.

there is a lot more context in hindsight for as to why the MC refused,then just the ego about it being a matrilineal marriage.
so i might be harder for the player to know that.

but at this point the MC has only shared a formal greeting with Sarah so the" I personally wouldn't have cared as long as it's someone I'm already interested in and not a total stranger." so IMO that wouldn't counter the way the proposal was made.
but i can understand how it might seem egotistical which definitively is one off the reason just not the only one.

i don't understand how when his first wife's first join his family and fall under his head off the family then don't any more when the MC hands that over to a new one through marriage,his other wives somehow would end up no longer being under the same tree of authority but instead...they get their own? back to their pre-marriage setup?...
that would pretty much reduce them concubine's instead off wives.

they for sure won't " be completely unaffected by the marriage." ,Sarah for sure would end up as the primary wife,and the MC will no longer have had the final say about decisions for his family.

i'm pretty sure marriage in this VN's setting come with a lot more legal stuff,social norms and possibly sacred(divine) rules/norms then IRL(historic or otherwise)

you make some decent points and all that,i might not agree with them but i understand most off it.
maybe Vanderer can clear up some stuff for this "what if".

 

[Vanderer]

Sure, it's part ego: Henri want to be the Head of his family. That's the truth. He's prideful. It's a fault, sometimes, but he's not perfect, far from it. He also hates to be controlled, and has an attitude with authority. Athagan is an excepetion, due to their shared past and the fact that Henri genuinely respects him as A mage and as a leader.

But yeah, it doesn't work like IRL. Notably, a matrilineal marriage make the Head of the wife's family the boss of yours. You become a cadet House, of sorts, and under her orders, which Henri was not fond of, because he didn't trust the Queen one bit, and rightly so. And because he want to do what he want to do. Society evolved differently due to the Curse, and the fact that magic is real, too.

The fact that the Queen gave orders rather than ask, orders that she didn't have any right to make, didn't help. She disrespected him, and he's not a man to be disrespected, Queen or not. And he has the law on his side, so...

Marrying Sarah was okay as long as he could control his family. But since he doesn't know her very well, putting himself in a underling position with her was also something he was not ready to do. What if she was a lunatic? He could have put his child, and his women, in a dangerous position.

i don't understand how when his first wife's first join his family and fall under his head off the family then don't any more when the MC hands that over to a new one through marriage,his other wives somehow would end up no longer being under the same tree of authority but instead...they get their own? back to their pre-marriage setup?...
that would pretty much reduce them concubine's instead off wives.

No, they would be still be under his authority, but his own authority could be overridden at any moment by the Queen, then bt Sarah when she would take the crown.

No, I meant that's not how medieval marriages work. A man in a matrilineal marriage wouldn't just become completely subservient to his wife.

In this setting, he does. Well, he still have some rights, of course, but Henri knows first hand how hard it could be to have them enforced when the one that he opposes is from the Royal family. After all, Athagan needed to intervene when Eloise tried to marry Karla's off, even though she had the right to choose her husband.

 

[Fulminato]

You might want to read the comment above you

i read that. serfdom it's a whole system, it's the fundamental of the liege/vassal of medieval time. if you have sworn a loyalty bond to someone {usually as unlanded knight to a landed noble}, if he march to war against the crown you are legally obliged to support him, and not the crown. [the landed noble will be marked as traitor if he lost, but everyone with him for loyality bond will not]

and still the second point remain, with something like the lex salica sariel will never be the head of the family, and war were waged about it. the most famous was the hundred years war. the most recent the austrian succession war IIRC.

TFS world ins's a 1:1 carbon copy of our medieval period. just the curse and the divine magic put everything in influx

 

[HiHaHo]

No, they would be still be under his authority, but his own authority could be overridden at any moment by the Queen, then by Sarah when she would take the crown.

yeah this is how i thought it would work for the VN,maybe i didn't phrase it like that directly.
basicly if there is a conflict or disagreement between him and Sariel(or later Sarah) he will have to yield or face consequences.

sure they might make some compromise to appease Henri,but he doesn't seem the type that's ok with that if its something he really cares for/wants.
very much a "my way or the highway" type.

 

[falconhawk223]

i read that. serfdom it's a whole system

No, I mean you literally misunderstood what I was saying and replied to a point that I wasn't actually talking about. I wasn't talking about serfs or the meme at all

 

[falconhawk223]

yeah this is how i thought it would work for the VN,maybe i didn't phrase it like that directly.
basicly if there is a conflict or disagreement between him and Sariel(or later Sarah) he will have to yield or face consequences.

Sarah having the ability to revoke it being an issue seems silly to me unless she has to be married to the mc in order to do so. Part of the problem for me anyway is that he's still going to be below the Queen no matter what anyway. Like I said maybe to you Henri seems justified but to me it just seems like he's being a big baby about it. I don't have a problem with the mc saying no I just don't agree with his reasoning at all for why he said no and his stubbornness about it annoyed me.

 

[HiHaHo]

Sarah having the ability to revoke it being an issue seems silly to me unless she has to be married to the mc in order to do so. Part of the problem for me anyway is that he's still going to be below the Queen no matter what anyway. Like I said maybe to you Henri seems justified but to me it just seems like he's being a big baby about it. I don't have a problem with the mc saying no I just don't agree with his reasoning at all for why he said no and his stubbornness about it annoyed me.

well its mainly due the different kind off authority.

yes Sariel is queen so she has authority over the MC,as head of state this stems from their government and all that.

being head off house is more off a Family authority,like a parent has over his child ,only in the VN's setting it doesn't absolve when the child comes of age,he/she will remain under said authority and this includes finances, marriage and likely more.

nobles do seem to have more freedoms from their head of house (like the right to accept/refuse a marriage) then commoners though.

 

[Vanderer]

Sarah having the ability to revoke it being an issue seems silly to me unless she has to be married to the mc in order to do so. Part of the problem for me anyway is that he's still going to be below the Queen no matter what anyway. Like I said maybe to you Henri seems justified but to me it just seems like he's being a big baby about it. I don't have a problem with the mc saying no I just don't agree with his reasoning at all for why he said no and his stubbornness about it annoyed me.

Not really. You see, in Aetas the gouvernment is really decentralized. A noble has only two real duties to the crown: pay his taxes and provides his levies in case of war.

The crown duties are:
-To protect the realm.
-Managing the parts of it that are not under another landed nobles, like for example an estate without an heir, or some road that are the commercial arteries of the realm.
-Justice at the highest level. Between nobles, mostly.
-Making laws.

Of course, there is a lot of other lesser duties, but mostly it's military duty and managing feuds.


The thing is, what Sariel brought to the table, really? Money? He has enough. Power? He doesn't care, and don't need it. Sarah? A nice woman, but it's lot like he was besotted. The truth is that it would not have brought him anything that he values, and a lot of downsides. And he didn't like Sariel or her family at the time, and didn't trust them one bit. Why agree, then?

 

[HiHaHo]

Not really. You see, in Aetas the gouvernment is really decentralized. A noble has only two real duties to the crown: pay his taxes and provides his levies in case of war.

The crown duties are:
-To protect the realm.
-Managing the parts of it that are not under another landed nobles, like for example an estate without an heir, or some road that are the commercial arteries of the realm.
-Justice at the highest level. Between nobles, mostly.
-Making laws.

Of course, there is a lot of other lesser duties, but mostly it's military duty and managing feuds.


The thing is, what Sariel brought to the table, really? Money? He has enough. Power? He doesn't care, and don't need it. Sarah? A nice woman, but it's lot like he was besotted. The truth is that it would not have brought him anything that he values, and a lot of downsides. And he didn't like Sariel or her family at the time, and didn't trust them one bit. Why agree, then?

i know you're probably to busy to do so,but making a few codex pages explaining the lore & customs off the world enlighten us(mainly me of course) a bit more.

i hope at least when this VN is completed it is thing.

 

[werejo]

That grey horse is absolutely GolShi-coded

 

[Mommysbuttslut]

That grey horse is absolutely GolShi-coded

Need a scene of it winning a race and drop kicking the MC. Or at least drop kicking someone

 

[RobLocksley]

Hopefully around endgame main character (MC) Henri can marry big boobs blonde Sariel, and become king!

 

[Skaldic]

OK been going back through part 3 from the start of it and there is only one thing that is kind of nails down a chalkboard for me. The fact that the new outfit has one long side on the right and is a short jacket on the left. I can not seem to get my mind to get past the inconsistency of the design for some reason.

 

[e6mill]

OK been going back through part 3 from the start of it and there is only one thing that is kind of nails down a chalkboard for me. The fact that the new outfit has one long side on the right and is a short jacket on the left. I can not seem to get my mind to get past the inconsistency of the design for some reason.

I suspect that someone who does HS clothing assets has an asymmetry fetish. Because I see a lot of these...

 

[HiHaHo]

OK been going back through part 3 from the start of it and there is only one thing that is kind of nails down a chalkboard for me. The fact that the new outfit has one long side on the right and is a short jacket on the left. I can not seem to get my mind to get past the inconsistency of the design for some reason.

it's what some people would call "fashion"

next outfit going to look like this:

 

[Elhemeer]

it's what some people would call "fashion"

next outfit going to look like this:
View attachment 5613558

Honestly, I'm not sure if I'm reacting to the outfit or the walk ...

 

[HiHaHo]

View attachment 5614016
Honestly, I'm not sure if I'm reacting to the outfit or the walk ...

well naturally i tried finding a "appropriate" one

 

[janonanon]

nice