Cyrodiil

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The worst example is how can be impossible to get the last harem member if, lets say, you could not fund the eustrin embassy in Ardford for the simple fact that you did not have enough Pron, wich will make way harder later on to get open the war vault, and after like 50 hours or so you cannot get the last harem member because of that outcome.
I very much agree with this, but I understand that the game is like that by design, so it's fine. It's for people that play the game 5+ times to get to know it intimately, not people like me that want to finish it and then move on to the next one.
My issue with it, and it's nobody's fault but my own, was that I tried to play it partially with a guide so I don't miss out on anything, but I also didn't read ahead so I wouldn't get spoiled, in order to get the best of both worlds. Well, since I didn't read ahead, I missed the optimal Court route at the end of Chapter 2, therefore I missed my shot at getting the Incubus King Helm, and I wasn't going to replay 3 hours from my backup save just for that. I decided to just move on. From what I understand, I can't simply edit the helm in either, so whatever.

Another small complaint I have is that what I do, is only download full games. I don't dabble in Early Access games that stay in EA forever for that Patreon money. I don't play Chaptered series that take a decade to eventually drop the story since they're literally never planned in advance. Since The Last Sovereign was marked as [COMPLETED], it came up on my feed so I downloaded and played it. It was disappointing to find out 20 hours later that the game is not actually complete at 1.0.0, because there is some art that needs finishing in a few months or so. Well, I get it's only art, but for someone like me, I do want the full experience in one go, since there won't be a second one. Well, again, whatever.

Stellar game otherwise. Simon is an excellent protagonist and if you removed the smut then I'd probably read this as a book with how much care is given to basically everything. I'm only halfway through though, but I'm sure I will enjoy the rest of my experience. And then at the end, download a save to get the last harem member, or something.
 

Fulminato

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Another small complaint I have is that what I do, is only download full games. I don't dabble in Early Access games that stay in EA forever for that Patreon money. I don't play Chaptered series that take a decade to eventually drop the story since they're literally never planned in advance. Since The Last Sovereign was marked as [COMPLETED], it came up on my feed so I downloaded and played it. It was disappointing to find out 20 hours later that the game is not actually complete at 1.0.0, because there is some art that needs finishing in a few months or so. Well, I get it's only art, but for someone like me, I do want the full experience in one go, since there won't be a second one. Well, again, whatever.
the game was text only for years. the art it's just a bonus patreon money had enable to. the game from start to finish was always intented with textual scenes. so by the initial design the game is finish. expecially because you don't keep a game full release hanging just to waiting some images were done, images not intended initially.
 
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Lilith522

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They're industry standard of trade J-RPG games.
I remembered the moment when a top Ubisoft executive publicly declared that 24 frames per second was the new standard for the gaming industry. It was the most pathetic excuse for why Ubisoft only releases games for consoles, while PCs are releasing poorly ported console games.

He was fired almost immediately after that press conference... and after Ubisoft's stock plummeted 14% in a day.
 

Cyrodiil

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Feb 11, 2019
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the game was text only for years. the art it's just a bonus patreon money had enable to. the game from start to finish was always intented with textual scenes. so by the initial design the game is finish. expecially because you don't keep a game full release hanging just to waiting some images were done, images not intended initially.
I did not know that, as I said the only reason I am here is because I saw a completed game. It is clearly advertised as HAVING scenes, both here, on itch.io and on the Steam page, so one would expect all scenes to have images. Do you think it's an unreasonable expectation in that situation, especially of an eroge?
As I said, I understand the only thing lacking is some art, but by definition the game is incomplete without it. I'm not making a big deal out of it, I merely left my impression that I ended with a 'whatever', because it does not really matter.
 

mahligl

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The argument that you can't make an optimal run (everyone is saved, everything is golden, you get every girl, including the secret one) without using a guide is funny.
 

Firehelp

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The argument that you can't make an optimal run (everyone is saved, everything is golden, you get every girl, including the secret one) without using a guide is funny.
Is there a reason for the game to not tell you:
1. You lose RP with Robin when you buy a prostitute in Stineford CH1 with her in your party
2. You should get Hilstara before you go to the academy
3. You should do Aka's route before Megail's route (CH2)
4. You get bonus XP based off of Simon's LVL for some companions (Altina for example)
5. Until CH4 there is exactly one place (Ardford) where you can buy Huge Health Potions
...
These are just a few examples out of the top of my head. Is it more enjoyable for the player to not have such information, or would it be better if the game told the player, so you wouldn't have to use a walkthrough? And pray tell, why is it enjoyable for you, if the game you're playing is blindsiding you for no reason, if that is the case?
 

Fulminato

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I did not know that, as I said the only reason I am here is because I saw a completed game. It is clearly advertised as HAVING scenes, both here, on itch.io and on the Steam page, so one would expect all scenes to have images. Do you think it's an unreasonable expectation in that situation, especially of an eroge?


it's unreasonable you read everything past the "complete" tag?
and the game has art. the mayority of the scene in the game feature art. so you are complaining to don't have read nothing past the first two line of a sale pitch. caveat emptor as it's said, and it's a free game, you cannot even complain you waste monety.

As I said, I understand the only thing lacking is some art, but by definition the game is incomplete without it. I'm not making a big deal out of it, I merely left my impression that I ended with a 'whatever', because it does not really matter.
by definition a game is complete when the developer(s) say it's complete. and yes you are making a big deal, or this disccusion will never started.
 

mahligl

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Jan 22, 2023
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1. You lose RP with Robin when you buy a prostitute in Stineford CH1 with her in your party
Yeah, it's completely out of the blue why you can lose two out of 132 obtainable relationship points with your foster daughter if the first thing you do after reuniting with the girl is hiring a hooker. The fact that Robin is madly in love with you but understands that for the main character their possible relationship is a taboo subject, gives no hint whatsoever.

3. You should do Aka's route before Megail's route (CH2)
You mean the one where Aka explicitly says that her health is deteriorating fast and you have to do something with it?

5. Until CH4 there is exactly one place (Ardford) where you can buy Huge Health Potions
I really don't understand what's wrong with this one.

Overall, the things that you mention are so minor or obvious that I simply can't treat your argument seriously.
 
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Crambit

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to be underleveld to the point to fail miserably the three/four level check in the game mean you skipped like half the enemies on the map, not "few extra enemies". and still kill everything on sight in a non respawing rpg it's basically the standard in the genere. like doing all the side quest before progressing with the main quest, or loot every chest you can see.
Yet if you kill every single monster except one in clearing the trail to the merchant camp in the very beginning you lose Aka rp and level enough to negatively impact later battles, especially if you don't invest flawlessly. It could cause Aka to be one point short for the airship with all that entails plus the collateral damage from Simon being level 33 instead of 34. That's significant chaos, collateral and loss of victory points. That can cost you acceptance enough to make it impossible to get the 50% discount on national succubus trade, and so on. You can consider it good of bad, but it's inarguable that the game is designed to be a series of knock on effects and one easily missed fight can have compounding negative consequences. It's just ironic, since the game takes jabs at obsessive trivial quest board clearing. It IS a good game. It is also riddled with little traps for anyone on a blind play through. Like how you get dragged to First Root.
 

Cyrodiil

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Feb 11, 2019
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it's unreasonable you read everything past the "complete" tag?
and the game has art. the mayority of the scene in the game feature art. so you are complaining to don't have read nothing past the first two line of a sale pitch. caveat emptor as it's said, and it's a free game, you cannot even complain you waste monety.
Have you tried to search for the 'text based' tag before making this post? Hint: all of it has art to go with the text. Like, 95%.
And hey, even if you WERE right, tags really don't mean much in a place like F95 where scat is marked even when it's a single optional skippable and fully warned scene, out of the game's 50 scenes. So I learned early to stop reading them and trust in the preview images alone to get a good impression. The only time it fails me is in cases like this.

And yeaaah, I knew the more I argued on this, the likelier someone is to bring up 'hey it's free, sod off if you don't like it'. Free things are allowed to be criticized. By criticizing it, you think I am saying 'I am entitled for more', but no, what I'm actually saying is 'this design choice has consequences for this type of player'. It wasn't even supposed to be official criticism, just a casual 'hey I kinda didn't like this part' to agree with the other guy and add an observation of my own, but I guess some people are bent to take any negative opinions as a personal affront and make an entire debate out of it.

by definition a game is complete when the developer(s) say it's complete. and yes you are making a big deal, or this disccusion will never started.
And yet, there are thousands of games that finish their Early Access cycle but are still considered incomplete by their community on Steam and in here. Feel free to tell every single one of those people that they're wrong, and then correct them on what the definition of 'complete' actually is.

You're making a bigger deal of this than I, I just wanted to drop my quick opinion and dip, but since you keep drawing attention to it then it seems like a bigger and bigger deal when I have to explain my position. Even now, the only reason I'm replying is because of the two main arguments that come with this post that hopefully clarifies how my kind of player thinks in these kinds of situations, either for camaraderie with similar-minded folks or for other people to learn about and from, in case they ever pursue projects of their own.
I'm not going through all of this because I care so much about the damn art. It's not there and I believe it should've been for a game to be counted as 'complete'. That's my entire thought process, AS someone who only just found the game. Obviously people who have been with the game for the past 8 years will have an entirely different opinion than mine, that is a given.
 

Fulminato

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Yet if you kill every single monster except one in clearing the trail to the merchant camp in the very beginning you lose Aka rp and level enough to negatively impact later battles, especially if you don't invest flawlessly. It could cause Aka to be one point short for the airship with all that entails plus the collateral damage from Simon being level 33 instead of 34. That's significant chaos, collateral and loss of victory points. That can cost you acceptance enough to make it impossible to get the 50% discount on national succubus trade, and so on.
and this is false. the minmaxing bring aka to 81 for the airship check, if you lose the single rp point of the road you still pass the check itself. and yes it's a opaque point, but the problem isn't skill a monster group, kill everythiong is a directive always present, but the fact you can {and need to} remove the fallen logs along the road for the rp bonus. for the boy section, if you want complain, complain about the megail 100+ bonus. and the point is... all you are complaining aren't needed for a good enough run. but for a perfect run. and if you want a perfect run you need a perfect knowledge of the game.

and in the end the icberg most blind run hit and sink it's gwanfall.

You can consider it good of bad, but it's inarguable that the game is designed to be a series of knock on effects and one easily missed fight can have compounding negative consequences. It's just ironic, since the game takes jabs at obsessive trivial quest board clearing. It IS a good game. It is also riddled with little traps for anyone on a blind play through. Like how you get dragged to First Root.
the jab is aimed to the games with endless random encounter allowing to pass every challenge with overleveling and overgearing. expecially if the game story possess some urgency. and i don't absolutely know what you are talking about the first root. there are other points in the game forcing to pass to the next section in a very opaque way, but the first root isn't among them.


Have you tried to search for the 'text based' tag before making this post? Hint: all of it has art to go with the text. Like, 95%.
And hey, even if you WERE right, tags really don't mean much in a place like F95 where scat is marked even when it's a single optional skippable and fully warned scene, out of the game's 50 scenes. So I learned early to stop reading them and trust in the preview images alone to get a good impression. The only time it fails me is in cases like this.
that tag exist since the thread was open in the 2016, because before the first art images batch was released in the 2020 was a regular thing people writing in the thread "this game don't have sex scene because don't has images". if you don't know how the tag system works and how you should use it's a you problem. and saying "i'm not informing about the game, just watch the pictiures" isn't the flex you think is.

And yeaaah, I knew the more I argued on this, the likelier someone is to bring up 'hey it's free, sod off if you don't like it'. Free things are allowed to be criticized. By criticizing it, you think I am saying 'I am entitled for more', but no, what I'm actually saying is 'this design choice has consequences for this type of player'. It wasn't even supposed to be official criticism, just a casual 'hey I kinda didn't like this part' to agree with the other guy and add an observation of my own, but I guess some people are bent to take any negative opinions as a personal affront and make an entire debate out of it.
you aren't criticizing the game, you are criticing a "misleading advertising" so yea, the price tag is part of the discussion. and i'm not say anything about entitlement, but i said "caveat emptor" what does it mean if you don't know "Let the buyer beware". the problem is you don't having search any information over reading a sale pitch and check a bunch of images.

And yet, there are thousands of games that finish their Early Access cycle but are still considered incomplete by their community on Steam and in here. Feel free to tell every single one of those people that they're wrong, and then correct them on what the definition of 'complete' actually is.
equivocating two different meaning of a single word to create a false analogy. the "complete" I'M talking it's opposed to "in active development", the one you use is oppose to "lack feature or content". they are not the same (pun intended) if you compare apple to orange the result is nonsensical.
 

Cyrodiil

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Feb 11, 2019
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that tag exist since the thread was open in the 2016, because before the first art images batch was released in the 2020 was a regular thing people writing in the thread "this game don't have sex scene because don't has images". if you don't know how the tag system works and how you should use it's a you problem. and saying "i'm not informing about the game, just watch the pictiures" isn't the flex you think is.
You brought up tags as proof of my sheer ignorance. I replied with how irrelevant this tag argument is with proof of what kind of games the 'text based' tag applies to, and then you replied with a rant about how your point was actually relevant in the past. Okay, but we are having this debate now, and not in 2020, so it's irrelevant.

I know how to use tags in a way that works for myself, and I only ever have trouble with games that are marked as finished but are not quite there yet, odd that. I do feel quite confident in this flex that allows me an easy way to find material that I enjoy, thank you.

you aren't criticizing the game, you are criticing a "misleading advertising" so yea, the price tag is part of the discussion. and i'm not say anything about entitlement, but i said "caveat emptor" what does it mean if you don't know "Let the buyer beware". the problem is you don't having search any information over reading a sale pitch and check a bunch of images.
I'm confused, misleading advertising is NOT part of the game? After all, I believe the developer would very much like to have new fans to buy into the supporter packs if they enjoy the game, but unfortunately it seems like there's little room for newer fans, as we haven't been here for when the game did not have as much content, so I suppose our opinion is marked as illegitimate if we try to judge the product as it exists today.

'You should have known what you were getting into' is basically what you're trying to say here. Except, it is not the consumer's responsibility to know the backstory of a product, and Day 1 fans do not define this standard. Distribution pages do, where the game is allowed to present itself, which creates expectations that will disappoint people if they're not fully met. You are allowed to rage against the windmills if you must, but that is the way it works. Consumer due diligence can only go so far.

In fact, if you did want to have a proper argument, you could have pointed to the Steam page where, among the features listed, it does indeed say that not all art is finished. Which is a fully legitimate argument and maybe then you would have been able to call me ignorant (though I'd still earnestly call it a communication failure, as 1.0 universally means 'complete product'). But none of this intellectual 'tags' and 'history' and 'you're doing it wrong' tripe.

equivocating two different meaning of a single word to create a false analogy. the "complete" I'M talking it's opposed to "in active development", the one you use is oppose to "lack feature or content". they are not the same (pun intended) if you compare apple to orange the result is nonsensical.
It's not a false equivalence, you said the game is complete when the developer says it's complete, and I offered a counter-argument about how it's not the developer's word that matters. What you actually meant to say is, I assume, is that the game is complete when people's expectations are satisfied, which in this game it means when the story is complete. Then you would have a point. But again, I am a new fan, not someone who kept in touch with the game for 9 years. There's a bit of a difference in perspective here on what 'complete' means.

The 'complete' I have talked about since my very post has been, I quote my own words here, one where "I want the full experience in one go". You are fully right in your first post where you bring up the fact that the game is complete by its INITIAL goal and it is understandable that the developer did not want to wait a few months for the art to be finished before marking the game as Completed. It's okay, I get that, I get the history. But that goal clearly changed over time, and if a new potential fan comes across the store page and sees the images, they have an expectation. That is what my first post to you was about, before you started criticizing my intelligence.

I know you will reply to this saying that the game is feature-complete. I get that too, as I said from my very first post. But I don't believe it's wrong to say that art is a big part of any eroge, otherwise it wouldn't have been an added feature and would have stayed text based. Combine this with my previous arguments and hopefully my point of view will be understood: a completed game attracts people who are only looking for completed games, so playing said game only to find out a part of it is not completed is disappointing, but ultimately not a big deal as the art is not the main draw of the game. I said all this from my very first post.

If I feel misunderstood even after this small novel that I wrote, then I will see no point in replying any further, because no amount of clarification will ever bridge the gap of misunderstanding here.

P.S. The chance to get the last harem member on a blind run as a first playthrough with no prior knowledge of the game is in the lowest percentile bracket. It is silliness to pretend otherwise due to how many variables are involved, but that is one of the main features of the game, so it's fine.
 

Suwi

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Feb 8, 2019
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Ignoring the mountains of text above me and all the debates aside, do we have an ETA for the full art/animation completion of this game before I play it?

Or is it like already completely good on its own without any bugs or unknown issues?
 

Wyrtt1

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Jan 21, 2023
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Ignoring the mountains of text above me and all the debates aside, do we have an ETA for the full art/animation completion of this game before I play it?

Or is it like already completely good on its own without any bugs or unknown issues?
Have you tried asking that question where it belongs? Like on steam forum where Siera can asnwer that? Whats the point asking something like that here?
 

Reij

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Jun 22, 2018
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Ignoring the mountains of text above me and all the debates aside, do we have an ETA for the full art/animation completion of this game before I play it?

Or is it like already completely good on its own without any bugs or unknown issues?
A couple of previous comments in this thread that would apply to what you're asking (including one quoting Sierra):
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I'd summarize that to your questions as: Fine to play as is, no large known bugs at the time. Full art is probably another year or so away. Most of the early chapters are complete already.

Have you tried asking that question where it belongs? Like on steam forum where Siera can asnwer that? Whats the point asking something like that here?
Probably because people have already answered that on here to one degree or another. Not everybody has or uses Steam, especially for adult games. Sometimes it's regional issues (not everybody is American on the internet), sometimes it's simply that they don't want to. In this case, hopefully their questions have been answered with the above quotes or will be by somebody else with more to add.
 
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Wyrtt1

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A couple of previous comments in this thread that would apply to what you're asking (including one quoting Sierra):
I'd summarize that to your questions as: Fine to play as is, no large known bugs at the time. Full art is probably another year or so away. Most of the early chapters are complete already.


Probably because people have already answered that on here to one degree or another. Not everybody has or uses Steam, s.especially for adult game Sometimes it's regional issues (not everybody is American on the internet), sometimes it's simply that they don't want to. In this case, hopefully their questions have been answered with the above quotes or will be by somebody else with more to add.
I dont know in what kind of country you have to be to not use steam. Even chinese use it. And what exact problem with using steam Especially for adult game@?
 
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