VN Ren'Py The Moorcock Incident [Dev Thread] - Big Titty Snobbish Girl Slow Corruption

[osanaiko]

Thank you for the advice; I am getting some initial results, although basic. But at least I have started to create the main character. What do you recommend for the backgrounds?

The backgrounds so far have come from a variety of sources:

- setup a camera on a basic daz set, rendered it, then run through Img2Img to get the art style of the LORA
- spent a reasonable time creating a custom blender scene, rendered it, then run through Img2Img to get the art style of the LORA
- found an image of an architectural render via image search, did some basic image frankenstein work, then run through Img2Img to get the art style of the LORA

I hope you are getting the theme... in general creating backgrounds with the current Model + Lora I have does not give the layouts or looks that I want. So I get a "close enough" image from another source, then use the Summertime LORA to "redraw" it to the art style I chose for my game.

Please read back through the thread, i've shared a lot of info and detail of how I've come up with various scenes and backgrounds.

 

[pokeraces89]

The backgrounds so far have come from a variety of sources:

- setup a camera on a basic daz set, rendered it, then run through Img2Img to get the art style of the LORA
- spent a reasonable time creating a custom blender scene, rendered it, then run through Img2Img to get the art style of the LORA
- found an image of an architectural render via image search, did some basic image frankenstein work, then run through Img2Img to get the art style of the LORA

I hope you are getting the theme... in general creating backgrounds with the current Model + Lora I have does not give the layouts or looks that I want. So I get a "close enough" image from another source, then use the Summertime LORA to "redraw" it to the art style I chose for my game.

Please read back through the thread, i've shared a lot of info and detail of how I've come up with variuous scenes and backgrounds so far...

Thank you, you are very kind and very helpful in your responses. I wish you the best of luck with your project, and if you need an Italian translator, please consider me; I'd be glad to help as much as I can. We will definitely read each other again here in your thread

 

[Heavenly6]

If i had a million dollars, i would pay Osanaiko the ransom money to get my wife back!

 

[osanaiko]

I'd just like to take a moment to say how fucking awesome some of the tools in photoshop are... Puppet Warp, Liquify, Color match, Select Subject... they make these editing tasks much easier. I should have started using it years ago, but I stuck with Paint.Net for such a long time. However PDN being freeware helps a lot, no need to worry about sketchy cracks or sandboxing.

I'm almost thinking about paying for the bloody thing, and if there still was a "buy forever" copy I would do it. Sadly, those money hungry suit wearing shitcunt financial vampires who run the company now require a subscription so they can fuck you forever. The physical world at least has some friction against the inevitable growth of monopolies, but the digital world is not so lucky...

 

[rerorero12]

 

[osanaiko]

I tried out "Corruption Town" (https://f95zone.to/threads/corruption-town-v0-8-1-boredbasmati.168818/) for the first time last night.

It is quite good. The art is great. The fact that such complicated gameplay systems and quality UI has been built from scratch in the Unity is really impressive programming. Within the game content I feel strong vibes that echo the feel of OnEdge, and the game I want to make. Perhaps that feeling of familiarity comes from the tactical gameplay loop that leads to MC's corruption.

In the end though, I am still feeling a bit disappointed. Corruption town is easily a top 10% game on this site, but perhaps the best way I could put it is that game is made of silver when what I want is corruption gold...

The below are all just my "feelings"

Some examples:

- When in the drink serving mini-game the various continuous "side actions" of the NPCs work are just too extreme. It's one thing to imagine some peasants in a fantasy medieval tavern slapping the barmaid's ass as she goes by, but pulling clothes off, shouting unreasonably dirty comments, even sticking fingers up her asshole... it goes beyond the boundary of believable. Maybe that might be the final end-state of MC when she has resigned herself to being a low class free-use whore slave, but there is no way that anyone would accept such treatments so early in the corruption journey.

- The game is let down by the over the top narrrative design and poorly thought our balance. MC's brother is in 10000 gold debt to gangsters... but doesn't seem to be under any pressure to make payments? Is it just a lie to get MC to become a slut waitress? If so, why? ALso the balance of money seems weird - How can MC get 100s of gold in tips from one customer, yet the tavern is about to go broke?

- The VN scenes have fanstastic art, but I find the dialogue is too extreme and the scenes feel rushed. The characters are paper thin caricatures, and the move into corruption happens so fast. It's rare for me to that like just hlding CTRL to skip through dialogue...

- Most importantly: There's no sense that MC has any chance - no way to even pretend that she's got a hopeful path forward. Every game choice is either a railroad or leads almost immediately towards becoming a whore. I want MC to be virtuous and then only reluctantly begin breaking down towards corruption, as her only way to avoid an immediate bad end are gradually escalating bad choices

Anyway, i wrote the above not because I wanna hate on BoredBasmati's game - not only is it a great acheivement, it is also a helluva more progress than I have made with my project. Instead, I wrote it as a learning process, and as a way to condense down some ideas and concepts that I want to make sure I get right in my own work - things that I think are important for the type of corruption game that I want to create.

 

[Dremo]

I tried out "Corruption Town" (https://f95zone.to/threads/corruption-town-v0-8-1-boredbasmati.168818/) for the first time last night.

It is quite good. The art is great. The fact that such complicated gameplay systems and quality UI has been built from scratch in the Unity is really impressive programming. Within the game content I feel strong vibes that echo the feel of OnEdge, and the game I want to make. Perhaps that feeling of familiarity comes from the tactical gameplay loop that leads to MC's corruption.

In the end though, I am still feeling a bit disappointed. Corruption town is easily a top 10% game on this site, but perhaps the best way I could put it is that game is made of silver when what I want is corruption gold...

The below are all just my "feelings"

Some examples:

- When in the drink serving mini-game the various continuous "side actions" of the NPCs work are just too extreme. It's one thing to imagine some peasants in a fantasy medieval tavern slapping the barmaid's ass as she goes by, but pulling clothes off, shouting unreasonably dirty comments, even sticking fingers up her asshole... it goes beyond the boundary of believable. Maybe that might be the final end-state of MC when she has resigned herself to being a low class free-use whore slave, but there is no way that anyone would accept such treatments so early in the corruption journey.

- The game is let down by the over the top narrrative design and poorly thought our balance. MC's brother is in 10000 gold debt to gangsters... but doesn't seem to be under any pressure to make payments? Is it just a lie to get MC to become a slut waitress? If so, why? ALso the balance of money seems weird - How can MC get 100s of gold in tips from one customer, yet the tavern is about to go broke?

- The VN scenes have fanstastic art, but I find the dialogue is too extreme and the scenes feel rushed. The characters are paper thin caricatures, and the move into corruption happens so fast. It's rare for me to that like just hlding CTRL to skip through dialogue...

- Most importantly: There's no sense that MC has any chance - no way to even pretend that she's got a hopeful path forward. Every game choice is either a railroad or leads almost immediately towards becoming a whore. I want MC to be virtuous and then only reluctantly begin breaking down towards corruption, as her only way to avoid an immediate bad end are gradually escalating bad choices

Anyway, i wrote the above not because I wanna hate on BoredBasmati's game - not only is it a great acheivement, it is also a helluva more progress than I have made with my project. Instead, I wrote it as a learning process, and as a way to condense down some ideas and concepts that I want to make sure I get right in my own work - things that I think are important for the type of corruption game that I want to create.

Uh, despite craving more corruption games and more particularly games who feel as such with proper gameplay tied to the NSFW fun instead of being poorly masked VNs with forced, unwanted tedium that pretends to be gameplay, I never tried it nor thought it would be worthy to try despite seeing it here and then on the updates page. Quite cool that following this thread here ended up putting another game on my radar.

As for the points you brought up, I think I do understand your pov despite the fact I haven't played the game, but I can't help but feel like, sadly, those "issues" are for the better for the majority (not all, mind you) of games/developpers here given how the state of development for most of these kind of games has been terrible in recent years and only seems to worsen. Simply put, most developpers aren't reliable or trust-worthy enough anymore for them to invest time and effort as to perfect dialogue, pace, setting etc. for the perfect corruption dynamic. Sometimes, rushing things a bit and ending up with rough edges in those things is the only way most of these games will ever end up with the meat of corruption content instead of stalling and dying in development in the parts where things are still mild and ramping up. I mean, this is literally what happened to On Edge; the pacing and setting were top notch, but the developper tapping out killed it at a point where there really isn't enough content for it to be considered anything but a wasted opportunity.

Of course, in your case, you should take the approach you feel best and not deviate from that, but otherwise, rushing things up has sadly become a necessity for other projects. Quality definitely beats quantity, but currently, there's just no quantity at all to begin with, everything is dead or stalling.

 

[TirGerm]

I tried out "Corruption Town" (https://f95zone.to/threads/corruption-town-v0-8-1-boredbasmati.168818/) for the first time last night.

It is quite good. The art is great. The fact that such complicated gameplay systems and quality UI has been built from scratch in the Unity is really impressive programming. Within the game content I feel strong vibes that echo the feel of OnEdge, and the game I want to make. Perhaps that feeling of familiarity comes from the tactical gameplay loop that leads to MC's corruption.

In the end though, I am still feeling a bit disappointed. Corruption town is easily a top 10% game on this site, but perhaps the best way I could put it is that game is made of silver when what I want is corruption gold...

The below are all just my "feelings"

Some examples:

- When in the drink serving mini-game the various continuous "side actions" of the NPCs work are just too extreme. It's one thing to imagine some peasants in a fantasy medieval tavern slapping the barmaid's ass as she goes by, but pulling clothes off, shouting unreasonably dirty comments, even sticking fingers up her asshole... it goes beyond the boundary of believable. Maybe that might be the final end-state of MC when she has resigned herself to being a low class free-use whore slave, but there is no way that anyone would accept such treatments so early in the corruption journey.

- The game is let down by the over the top narrrative design and poorly thought our balance. MC's brother is in 10000 gold debt to gangsters... but doesn't seem to be under any pressure to make payments? Is it just a lie to get MC to become a slut waitress? If so, why? ALso the balance of money seems weird - How can MC get 100s of gold in tips from one customer, yet the tavern is about to go broke?

- The VN scenes have fanstastic art, but I find the dialogue is too extreme and the scenes feel rushed. The characters are paper thin caricatures, and the move into corruption happens so fast. It's rare for me to that like just holding CTRL to skip through dialogue...

- Most importantly: There's no sense that MC has any chance - no way to even pretend that she's got a hopeful path forward. Every game choice is either a railroad or leads almost immediately towards becoming a whore. I want MC to be virtuous and then only reluctantly begin breaking down towards corruption, as her only way to avoid an immediate bad end are gradually escalating bad choices

Anyway, i wrote the above not because I wanna hate on BoredBasmati's game - not only is it a great acheivement, it is also a helluva more progress than I have made with my project. Instead, I wrote it as a learning process, and as a way to condense down some ideas and concepts that I want to make sure I get right in my own work - things that I think are important for the type of corruption game that I want to create.

I admit the appeal of doing the things mentioned above is part of the "minimal viable porn product" which does help these developers to get the game done and dusted. But such shallow products can be described as "1 handed porn games"

See here for definition:

And I get the impression that you want to make a proper "2 handed lewd game"

 

[KingsRaiden]

Love following this, and excited to see what you have with all the nice images and options you have been putting out and sharing, but it's been a year since this thread started, how close are we to seeing something playable?

 

[osanaiko]

Simply put, most developpers aren't reliable or trust-worthy enough anymore for them to invest time and effort as to perfect dialogue, pace, setting etc. for the perfect corruption dynamic.

I was vibing with your points except this one.

"Reliable and trustworthy" are very judgemental words to use. I can only imagine that you have never tried to make a massive project before - so you don't know how much of a soul crushing, backbreaking amount of work is required to put together a quality game. It is absolutely no surprise to me that the majority of developers give up their dream after making just a few releases. With a very rare few exceptions (which are developers who I guarantee have worked extremely hard) the rewards that developers see are basically $0.10 - 1.00 dollars per hour of effort. So that means making an adult game is essentially a hobby project. And how many people do you know who willingly *work* for dozens of hours a week for months and years on something that will be just copied by pirates?

I use the word "work" because making a game is only fun in the abstract sense - a delayed chance to get dopamine rewards. It is absolutely NOT consistently fun in the moment to moment effort to grind out content. Thus it is VERY easy to get distracted from such work and go do fun things like play other games. (The only exception to this rule is the first few weeks or months when you are still excited at the concept of making a game).

So I say that you should reconsider your sense of entitlement towards developers. It is ludicrously self-centered to believe that they are somehow betraying you by not giving you more free stuff that exactly meets your requirements (how many devs do you support with money?)

Be happy that there are at least SOME people who put in the efforts to make the porno games of their dreams.

As an aside: My "anger" at the OnEdge dev is not that he abandoned his game. (That is more of a sense of sadness, really). It is the dirty fraudulent tactics of continuing to milk money for YEARS when there is no progress, and possibly no intention of actually delivering.

 

[Dremo]

So I say that you should reconsider your sense of entitlement towards developers. It is ludicrously self-centered to believe that they are somehow betraying you by not giving you more free stuff that exactly meets your requirements (how many devs do you support with money?)

Maybe I did a poor choice of words there, but thats really, really not the kind of point I tried to bring.

I'm not entitled to the product of any of those devs. The devs made the choice to make those games for any reason that motivated them to do so, but most if not all of these reasons have the game's completion or sufficient progress in mind in some way. As such, taking an approach to their development that ultimately puts that objective at risk is counter-productive, and its consequences are not solely for the consumers, but also for the developper, who made their own objective harder to reach.

My point wasn't "devs should deliver because I want them to", my point is quite literally "devs bite off too often more than they can chew". When I talked about reliability and trustworthiness, it was centered on the PoV of the devs, not the consumers. Your current self is NOT your future self, but way too many expect as much, if not more of these two things from their future selves. An example could be how many think that they can apply the same amount of rigor and work/dev balance as they do in the first few weeks/months as they will in the next few years or so, while upping the workload and promises. People should have more realistic expectations of the amount of trust they can put into their future self, so if more down to earth expectations of X project they'd start are necessary as to make it realistically bearable enough to bring it to finish, they should be ready to make that decision.

 

[osanaiko]

Dremo

Ah, okay, I get you now. It is possible that I may perhaps have pulled out my gun and kind of fired too soon. Sorry!

 

[osanaiko]

Bumped into this post in General:

https://f95zone.to/threads/i-want-t...ill-be-useful-daz-or-stable-diffusion.248713/

I feel called out. In a good way.

Time to stop polishing the treasure alone in the dark. 90% perfect is good enough.

New motto: Just fucking ship it.

 

[osanaiko]

So I've been beavering away (hehe, beaver) trying to follow the new philosophy and move on from this scene that has take so much time.

While hand editing yet another variant expression today, I realized where some things have gone wrong... from a rate of progress perspective.

Traditional hand-drawn game images, as seen in many games, often has longish shots of a character in a largely static pose, with the camera angle unchanging. The character is shown as talking or interacting with other by cycling through a series of facial expressions while there are a long-ish series of dialogue lines. This is because drawing completely new images is expensive, but lip-flap / eye blink / expression changes are relatively cheap.

This has conditioned me (and many of us?) to see this style as the goal of "animation" style graphics. Japanese VNs use a variant of this format - a static background, and foreground character sprites with a handful of expressions are shown while the dialog is clicked through below. Summertime Saga is a prime example of this type of game, using western art style.

However attempting to emulate this style in a close-up scene with AI and my very average drawing skills has so far taken me a couple of dozen hours of time, spread over several weeks of calendar time, and I *still* have't finished all the images I want.

Subjectively, I think it actually looks great... but it's just too costly in terms of time invested for it to be reasonable to use that process or style for the rest of the game.

What AI is good at is generating a bunch of different image representations quickly - even if those don't show the character in exactly the same way each time. So that means that if I change the way I try to create my scenes to use a variety of different shots, I can get away with subtle differences in skin lighting/coloration, hair placement, and clothing micro-details between these shots. Of course, the process to create them will still involve generating a bunch of images and choosing the best one ("best" meaning it shows both the shot setup I want and is 95++% accurate to the character look - eye, nose, mouth shape, and hair and clothing general style) as the base for final edits to fix bad hands, or adding lip flap etc.

----

Phew, that's a lot of talking... and no juicy pictures for you all. I might see if I can find any laying about... NOTE: these are non-canon images! (and the bloody blue glow effect is a side effect of the prompts I use too often)

"Oh my goodness, the alien blue glow beam has increased my bust!"



"I heard this game was really good, I've been looking forward to playing it for ages!"

(with to GrayTShirt)

 

[GrayTShirt]

So I've been beavering away (hehe, beaver) trying to follow the new philosophy and move on from this scene that has take so much time.

While hand editing yet another variant expression today, I realized where some things have gone wrong... from a rate of progress perspective.

Traditional hand-drawn game images, as seen in many games, often has longish shots of a character in a largely static pose, with the camera angle unchanging. The character is shown as talking or interacting with other by cycling through a series of facial expressions while there are a long-ish series of dialogue lines. This is because drawing completely new images is expensive, but lip-flap / eye blink / expression changes are relatively cheap.

This has conditioned me (and many of us?) to see this style as the goal of "animation" style graphics. Japanese VNs use a variant of this format - a static background, and foreground character sprites with a handful of expressions are shown while the dialog is clicked through below. Summertime Saga is a prime example of this type of game, using western art style.

However attempting to emulate this style in a close-up scene with AI and my very average drawing skills has so far taken me a couple of dozen hours of time, spread over several weeks of calendar time, and I *still* have't finished all the images I want.

Subjectively, I think it actually looks great... but it's just too costly in terms of time invested for it to be reasonable to use that process or style for the rest of the game.

What AI is good at is generating a bunch of different image representations quickly - even if those don't show the character in exactly the same way each time. So that means that if I change the way I try to create my scenes to use a variety of different shots, I can get away with subtle differences in skin lighting/coloration, hair placement, and clothing micro-details between these shots. Of course, the process to create them will still involve generating a bunch of images and choosing the best one ("best" meaning it shows both the shot setup I want and is 95++% accurate to the character look - eye, nose, mouth shape, and hair and clothing general style) as the base for final edits to fix bad hands, or adding lip flap etc.

----

Phew, that's a lot of talking... and no juicy pictures for you all. I might see if I can find any laying about... NOTE: these are non-canon images! (and the bloody blue glow effect is a side effect of the prompts I use too often)

"Oh my goodness, the alien blue glow beam has increased my bust!"
View attachment 4670509


"I heard this game was really good, I've been looking forward to playing it for ages!"
View attachment 4670544
(with to GrayTShirt)

Her blue glow makes me feel like my MC might want to come visit her...
But now I feel bad I couldn't finish my own VN!

 

[Sentinel Sparrow]

Traditional hand-drawn game images, as seen in many games, often has longish shots of a character in a largely static pose, with the camera angle unchanging. The character is shown as talking or interacting with other by cycling through a series of facial expressions while there are a long-ish series of dialogue lines. This is because drawing completely new images is expensive, but lip-flap / eye blink / expression changes are relatively cheap.

Anime is a great representation of how to be more efficient
3D cell shading used for complex moving objects transitions and some scenes where the characters are far away or hordes of enemies then switch back to hand drawn for up close shots.

A good example is Solo Leveling high orcs (rip english dub shaman cartel drug dealer - broke the immersion lol)


3D background (visibly distinguishable in fight scenes)
3D middle ground characters (knights vs high orcs)
2D foreground character

Other time saving animation techniques
1) Hybrid 2D/3D Animation – 3D backgrounds, 2D characters for efficiency and consistency.
2) Stills with Camera Motion – Panning and zooming replace full-frame animation.
3) Limited Animation & Lip Flaps – Only animate essential details like eyes and mouth.
4) Impact Frames & Speed Lines – Key frames to imply fast motion in fights.
5) Off-Screen Actions & Cutaways – Sounds and reactions replace complex animations.

__________

Figuring out the art workflow is tough imo ^ ^;

I understand your recommendations a lot better now after seeing your journey ^ ^;
Get it done, you got this!

 

[osanaiko]

A CALL TO ACTION, and Update time! Yay!

First up: Help please!

I'm starting to reach the stage of actually thinking about the final pieces needed to wrap up an initial release, and one of the things on my to-do list is to sort out some banckground music. I have previously toyed with AI generation of audio (see previous thread updates: https://f95zone.to/threads/the-moor...ish-girl-slow-corruption.205564/post-14010748 and https://f95zone.to/threads/the-moor...ish-girl-slow-corruption.205564/post-14141719). From those attempts I got a couple of "maybe kinda okay" tracks, but right now I don't want to go on another side quest. One challenge of the music AI gen (from what I've seen so far, things might have improved since then) is that the length of the output generally tops out at a couple of minutes before it goes off the rails.

So, I'm asking for any suggestions for any ambient electronica style music that is either completely royalty free, or is from up-and-coming composers who would be willing to create (or give permission) for a track to be used in an adult game. Not looking for anything that is going to overwhelm or distract from a scene dialogue or game-play, just some chill beats - and not LoFi style either, as I'm not on relaxation medication (yet).
I'm even willing to put some money down for the right track(s) - a couple of hundred buckeroos. The type of background track I'm thinking about are works inspired by Aphex Twin or deadmau5... I like that sort of electronica in general.

I know that I could personally start trawling through some of the online sources of royalty free music, but to be honest it's not my jam - I'd rather spend the limited time I get on the other aspects of the project. So anyone who is keen to help *please step forward*.

If I do use something you suggest, I promise to at least put your name in the thankyou list!


Progress update:

After my last post about the realization that I was fighting the (current?) nature of AI generation, and decision to change my process to match the tools, I've been spending the past week or two to finish the specific scene that has had me wrapped up for so many weeks. I'm nearly there and now up to 26 images of various poses and expressions, along with a dozen more background variations. I think it looks great, but as stated before, it's not practical to keep going this way.

As an aside: how the flying fuck do professional animators stop from going mad? drawing a seeming endless sequence of slight variations on the same image... sure, the results can look amazing but holy fuck it must be tedious.

One of the downsides on working on the same scene for so long is that there are no new or interesting things to share.

Finally:

I played "Farmer Kink" https://f95zone.to/threads/farmer-kink-v0-10-musex.249656/ this week.

It was certainly interesting. At the moment there's a large number of new games appearing with AI art but otherwise not a lot of effort. Unlike those low effort productions, farmer's kink is showing off some pretty good results from heavy AI use, and some *very* effective AI video/animation sequences. There is still a way to go, but I think AI video is now in a similar situation to the state of image generation two years ago - impressive but lots of flaws.

The game did have a number of glaring issues however, and I wrote about those in a review https://f95zone.to/threads/farmer-kink-v0-10-musex.249656/br-reviews#review-268664

One of the big flaws was the heroines: all their faces looked near identical - that generic hyper-real anime illustration look. As the near one dozen characters were introduced, I found myself multiple times having to stop and check who was on screen - was it someone new or one of the existing cast? For my project, I've been following a lesson from one of the old developer's blog posts for Team Fortress 2: it's important to make sure the various characters have distinct body shapes / silouettes, and to give them distinct visual looks, so the player can tell at a glance who is doing what.

Of course the game is a very early release, so hopefully things will improve. Having said that, this is not the first game from the developer - they've got 3 others already on this site, one of which is now "Complete" after five years of development. So it's possible the problems I observed were more to do with the "style" of the developer than something that is going to be be overcome.

 

[TheExordick]

Don't know if you know, osanaiko but on

You must be registered to see the links

there is a dedicated page to software which is really more focused on game assets.
Often times they have music and SFX boundles and you can get something like 30 mixed genre soundtrack albums for something like 30 bucks.
Right now there is only one for SFX but they will come back again periodically. Every time they are different and they are often with a common theme.

Edit: 30 albums not 30 soundtracks

 

[osanaiko]

Don't know if you know, osanaiko but on

You must be registered to see the links

there is a dedicated page to software which is really more focused on game assets.
Often times they have music and SFX boundles and you can get something like 30 mixed genre soundtrack albums for something like 30 bucks.
Right now there is only one for SFX but they will come back again periodically. Every time they are different and they are often with a common theme.

Edit: 30 albums not 30 soundtracks

Oh, cool, thanks for the response.

I did try a music bundle from there once long ago. I recall that it wasn't really the type of thing I was looking for at the time, but the idea is sound! (hahahahah)

 

[Sentinel Sparrow]

unity has a plethora of audio files

You must be registered to see the links

You could do the 2D character rig method though less ideal for unique poses, it cuts down animation time by having them parts using, making verts and skinning them to bones which allows for IK (inverse kinematics solvers for the bones), or simple rotation, squash and stretch per part

unity 2D character rig tutorial:

basics of animation techniques: (can be applied to all types of animation, 2d 3d)

good luck