VN Ren'Py The Nature of Magic [Part 3] [Slate Interactive]

[Malicre]

Outside the redhead trinity, she's probably my favorite girl.

I'm not really a fan of the anyone except the trio girls. There just hasn't been a whole lot of content with the other ones so far.

 

[MadMoonMan69]

How could you not want Mama B'Aer?

 

[Dessolos]

How could you not want Mama B'Aer?
View attachment 5517435

not a redhead nuff said this harem has a sign that says redheads only

 

[Malicre]

not a redhead nuff said this harem has a sign that says redheads only

I don't think we have enough.

 

[ohhiimfox]

I don't think we have enough.

View attachment 5517561

 

[ciberma7865]

December Progress Update 1

The second draft of the script for Part Four is done. It's almost twice the size it was before I started working on it after the Part Three release. Won't be quite as long as long as previous updates, but should still be a couple hours of story. Total line count is about 5800, which might be around where the final script length winds up after comment/note clean up and all the image show and music/movie play logic is added.
The two animations I had commissioned are done. Quite pleased with how they look. Might do one or two more myself, depending on whether I keep the second QT scene in. It occurs alongside another start point to Cerys's romance arc, so I'll keep it in if it doesn't look like it'll be too much work to maintain that path moving forward.
Next up is character and outfit creation. There's a bunch of new characters coming in this update, so expect the Memory map to have quite a few more faces in it by the end of the chapter.
Also had a few ideas to spruce up some more of the Chapter One exposition some. Namely: adding a few renders to the early chat with Cymhen discussing the deaths of the other men with the Affinity so that's actually shown a bit, via Cymhen giving Rane his phone to scroll through pictures of the scenes; potentially adding some 'flashback' images during Rane and Cerys's first chat showing a few renders for each past event Rane mentions as he talks; and adding in a confrontation between Bael and Leala, as that doesn't feel like it has enough impact at the moment. I figure I'll tackle one or two of those towards the end of the update like I did with the extra tasking stuff I completed for the Part Three release.
I'll likely pop another one of these up at the end of the month (hence the '1' in the title this time).
Thanks for the support and stay safe!

 

[buttsman69]

"Did you smash?"
"Fuckin' right I did"
"That's my daughter"

 

[DrSoong]

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Where specifically does the early part of the game bog down?

Which scenes in the early part of the game lose your attention?

That's what I'm hoping to learn with this post. The most common continuing complaint about the story is the exposition/pacing in the first couple of hours. I don't expect to write something that absolutely everyone will enjoy, but I also don't want this to become a common enough refrain that it wards people off from playing. I'd like to address this before the game really reaches the “mainstream”.

I've heard/read the general feedback: too much information too soon, the magic is boring and too detailed, too much 'tell' and not enough 'show'. What I'm looking for here are specific scenes/points in the story to focus on, along the lines of "the Energy Direction lesson" or "Luther and Rane's conversation about Rane's handler". I'll round up the feedback and create a poll in the upcoming days to identify the areas most in need of attention over the next update or two, in the same vein as the extra tasking poll from the previous two releases.

In the full progress update posted a few days ago, I noted three places where I'd like to add/tweak some things: adding a few renders to the early chat with Cymhen discussing the deaths of the other men with the Affinity so that's actually shown a bit (via Cymhen giving Rane his phone to scroll through pictures of the scenes); potentially adding some 'flashback' images during Rane and Cerys's first chat showing a few renders for each past event Rane mentions as he talks; and adding in a confrontation between Bael and Leala, as that dynamic doesn't feel like it has enough conflict/tension at the moment. So consider those parts already noted and queued up for the poll.

For those of you who enjoy the early game as-is: rest assured this isn't about taking out the details and lore; it's about presenting them in a more engaging/interesting way.

I'll also be making a thread on the Discord for folks who'd rather discuss there.

 

[Merlin-Magic]

I am not going to be able to help much here. Other than the first five minutes where I was thinking, what the hell is happening here (a problem with every game as I switch gears), I had no trouble with "bog", or "down" in this game .
I did play the game straight through with all three chapters back to back. I am sure that helped.
There was never enough time to forget anything.
Or, maybe I just like details, but there was never a TMI point for me .
There was always enough humor to keep me interested... everywhere.

 

[slick97]

I am not going to be able to help much here. Other than the first five minutes where I was thinking, what the hell is happening here (a problem with every game as I switch gears), I had no trouble with "bog", or "down" in this game .
I did play the game straight through with all three chapters back to back. I am sure that helped.
There was never enough time to forget anything.
Or, maybe I just like details, but there was never a TMI point for me .
There was always enough humor to keep me interested... everywhere.

If I were to hazard a guess, I'm suspecting most players are getting overwhelmed by the amount of names thrown at them without really knowing who they are. The Families have hundreds of prominent members so I can see how it's easy to get confused in that regard.

The other aspect I suspect is causing some grievance is the in depth explanation of magic. For example, energy direction is explained as pools and rivers, but the player never really sees any visual cue as to when, how, or even if said energy transfer is happening. The Weave is a more egregious example given the explanation of "threads", but I'm not entirely sure how Sudo could remedy that without too much visual clutter.


I just want to clarify that I personally found the current intro enjoyable and easier to follow along. It's pacing used to be consolidated to the first few scenes with Cerys, Cymhen, and Aine without too much story progression. It's a tough balance to strike, but each piece of feedback continues to result in drastic improvements overall.

 

[buttsman69]

That question's gonna be a thinker for me, since for the most part I like the way exposition is handled here. At worst, it's a little clumsy but even my absolute favorite AVNs have plenty of room for constructive criticism.

I don't know that there's a solid answer beyond smoothing out the dialogue. Maybe that's all the dev needs to hear though, maybe I'll make myself known over there.

 

[lorkdubo]

I really liked the exposition dump. I do read a ton since young, so maybe that's why i didn't encounter it overwhelming. Also, there is a perfectly well done codex with the info which some AVN don't utilize, and can make some info retention difficult.

 

[jvbatman]

You must be registered to see the links

Where specifically does the early part of the game bog down?

Which scenes in the early part of the game lose your attention?

That's what I'm hoping to learn with this post. The most common continuing complaint about the story is the exposition/pacing in the first couple of hours. I don't expect to write something that absolutely everyone will enjoy, but I also don't want this to become a common enough refrain that it wards people off from playing. I'd like to address this before the game really reaches the “mainstream”.

I've heard/read the general feedback: too much information too soon, the magic is boring and too detailed, too much 'tell' and not enough 'show'. What I'm looking for here are specific scenes/points in the story to focus on, along the lines of "the Energy Direction lesson" or "Luther and Rane's conversation about Rane's handler". I'll round up the feedback and create a poll in the upcoming days to identify the areas most in need of attention over the next update or two, in the same vein as the extra tasking poll from the previous two releases.

In the full progress update posted a few days ago, I noted three places where I'd like to add/tweak some things: adding a few renders to the early chat with Cymhen discussing the deaths of the other men with the Affinity so that's actually shown a bit (via Cymhen giving Rane his phone to scroll through pictures of the scenes); potentially adding some 'flashback' images during Rane and Cerys's first chat showing a few renders for each past event Rane mentions as he talks; and adding in a confrontation between Bael and Leala, as that dynamic doesn't feel like it has enough conflict/tension at the moment. So consider those parts already noted and queued up for the poll.

For those of you who enjoy the early game as-is: rest assured this isn't about taking out the details and lore; it's about presenting them in a more engaging/interesting way.

I'll also be making a thread on the Discord for folks who'd rather discuss there.

Try playing your game and just see how much dialogue passes with just one image of a person talking. 95% of this game is characters explaining things that have already happened in the past instead of just showing it happening. You skipped all the interesting parts of a relationship where they meet and overcome challenges and fall in love and have started the game with every character 100% in love with the MC and willing to have an open relationship with every other female character. There's no interesting story to tell because it's all already happened.

I can tell you as someone who has read a fair amount of fantasy novels, nothing is more boring than an author explaining their new magic system. If it's not immediately relevant to what is happening then the information does not need to be explained in such detail. Watch any James Bond movie and Q explaining what a new gadget does happens in 2-3 lines and then James Bond gets on to kicking ass and banging babes. The attack was the only interesting part because the MC actually learned and then applied knowledge he learned.

Characters don't need to explain to each other what is going to happen in the future. Just cut to the part where the interesting thing is happening. Don't repeat conversations. If something was said without a character around and then that character later shows up, you don't need to rehash all the dialogue. Learn to edit yourself and cut out all the fat.

 

[DrSoong]

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Thank you all for the feedback in the previous post. There were some good ideas and confirmations of which parts of Chapter One to look at.

I expect part of the disconnect in folks' feelings on the early game is due to my primary approach in livening up the early exposition: with banter, teasing, and witty dialogue. Some people love it, and others don't.

TNoM isn't (and won't be) for everyone, but there can be more to some of those scenes. Supplementing what's there, not replacing it.
Take one of the scenes I mentioned in the previous post: Rane and Luther discussing Rane's handler. It makes sense in the story world, considering Rane and the Gryms discussed the subject earlier that day, but the reader doesn't need that extra information right then (if at all). In fact, it's likely a bit redundant because of that earlier discussion. And what is Luther doing during the conversation? Sitting on a couch. While a completely reasonable thing to do (I'm doing it as I type), it's not particularly interesting and doesn't give any real insight into Luther's character. How could that change? The scene could be moved later in the story to serve as a bit of a refresher, and Luther could be doing something during the conversation, like training or working on his marksmanship. Show a little insight into Luther early on, rather than just tell the audience about him for the first few hours of the story. While the information relayed to the audience remains the same, the manner in which it's presented is notably different.

That's how I'll be approaching this work. One or two areas might warrant a more significant endeavor, but they'd be the last ones tackled, if at all. And there's bound to be places where there's unnecessary bits of information that can be cut, or details that can moved to scenes that better carry the audience's attention.

So, on to the poll. I'll be using the results as a way to get an idea of where to focus my attention, and I'll sprinkle the resulting work over the next couple of updates. To reiterate: this is to get a feel for how you all, the audience, feel about these scenes, but the work itself likely won't be quite so discrete in tasking.

The poll is multiple choice this time, so please select the parts of the story you'd most like to see livened up, even if you enjoy them all as they are.

Some of my thoughts on each item in the poll:

• First chat with Cymhen in the woods/limo
  • There are two approaches I've considered here (hence the two options), one being the notion discussed in the previous post about Cymhen showing Rane pictures of the scenes of where the other men with the Affinity died. The other idea I explored for this scene, which is a much larger effort, would be to follow Rane around for the evening after the ambush. The attack unfolds the same as before, only Cymhen doesn't arrive until after Rane has already left, so they don't run into each other. We then follow Rane to show 'a day in the life', so to speak. Part of that would feature him heading into town, the day getting progressively darker. During that, Rane begins to suspect someone is following him. The visuals get darker as night approaches and the tension builds until: surprise! Guess who? It would be pretty late by this point, so I'd expect a night in a hotel before traveling to the manor. One of the suggestions on the previous post was along these lines: to take a little time between the ambush and Cymhen's appearance to introduce/cover things like Rane's position in the world, his past relationships, etc. Which is what I'd incorporate as we follow him around, adding the earliest instances of his habit of talking to himself. Also, with the extra day they could actually travel to one of the locations where a male mage died while discussing the deaths. That part might be overkill, but is something I'd explore. Anyway, that would all be a larger effort, so it'd be the only extra task done with the particular update it's worked in. Might be a good 'last piece' to put a ribbon on Chapter One.
• Talking with Cerys the first night back: adding 'flashback images' to Rane discussing their past
  • I might expand this to include discussion about past events in general, as there was a suggestion on Itch to do the same thing with Rane talking about his handler.
• Energy Direction lesson with Áine
  • This was touched up in the previous update, but it focused on including Áine more. I feel it was a positive change all around, but the core notion of the scene didn't change; the two of them are still standing in front of a plant and talking/thinking about magic. We don't see any of Energy Direction, which is a sticking point for those who are, you know, expecting visuals in a visual novel. The issue there is that there are no visible effects of certain spells, like Energy Direction. There was a good suggestion on Discord, though, to show visuals of what Rane is, well, visualizing. That ties pretty well into the existing language in that scene as it uses imagery to attempt to instill those visuals in the reader's mind through just words. This would add an actual visual accompaniment. The idea is also similar to the 'flashback images' notion, so they'd essentially be the same narrative concept: providing the audience with a visual of what Rane is picturing in his mind. And I'd implement them the same code-wise, so another reason for me to like that notion.
• Divination (Sensory Enhancement & Telepathy) lesson with Cerys
  • Part of this could be like the above: finding ways to show visuals of what's in Rane's 'mind's eye'. I'd also probably change up the whole tone/heartbeat listening bit to having Cer play something decidedly 'cheekier' than a tone, leading PC to snatch the phone and be greeted with something other than the lock screen.
• Chat with Luther about Rane's handler
  • Wrote out most of my thoughts on this above. I'll add that moving the scene will open some time to add a new one in, so I'd think on something fun to put in its place that would also develop the characters a bit. Maybe Áine, Cerys, and Cymhen training, with Luther in audience. And that new scene could even happen earlier in the day, pushing the first Weave lesson until afternoon to better break up the less-active scenes. Another notion is that this could be a section that might benefit from 'redundant' scenes being combined. In this case, the earlier morning conversation being removed/reworked and either Cymhen or Cerys being part of the 'new' handler discussion.
• Adding a scene with a confrontation between Bael and Leala
  • In retrospect, not including this feels like it does a disservice to both the characters and to the tensions between their families.

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[Moonis]

Great game. Really interesting story. I played this all through almost on one sitting. Girls were great. Personalities and looks (few of them had too big breasts for my liking, but I can live with that).

Some thoughts:

Unnaturally deep sleep there. But I'm saying this as a person who's not even able to sleep in moving vehicle.


Only typo that I saw: creaure -> creature

Magic types were interesting, but few times there was just too much info, so that I started scrolling through it faster than I could read.

Girls seemed to take roles as future harem-members too easily. I expected to see more house politics between them. But I suppose we see more of politics in the next update, when we see more of their family members. I mean, unified front with the MC is nice as it improves our views of the girls, but that takes away some plot development chances. I wouldn't want to see nasty backstabbing, that's ugly, just little more competition.

But perhaps I'm comparing this too much to certain popular game where house politics are one of the most important plot points, whereas here it's it's usual for gifted persons to breed lots of women from different factions.

 

[Acanthite]

But perhaps I'm comparing this too much to certain popular game where house politics are one of the most important plot points, whereas here it's it's usual for gifted persons to breed lots of women from different factions.

Part of it is also desperation from all factions. The magic that keeps them powerful is getting more and more watered down and the men known to be able to slow that down in the long term are all getting killed. Rather than everyone taking the roles up too easily, they're all in a position of obligation to do so. Bael in particular is so anxious about the general situation and her specific circumstances related to it that she breaks down. Once the others trust MC as much as the redheads do we'll probably see some more of their inner conflicts coming out.

I imagine the house politics aren't showing too obviously yet because everyone's already mostly on friendly terms on a personal level, and they're in a more or less controlled neutral environment. As you said, the plot's about to change that. Leala in particular is going to be interesting to see in the future. Especially because of the way her choices play out under the hood so far.

 

[Kakkooi06]

This game talk a lot about offspring, children, make babies, want to be a mother. And then when we getting to have sex there is contraception.. just suck bro pain in the ass

 

[SafeForSure]

Love this game happy I could turn everyone down. Cer went into the basket after the talking about wanting to fuck the other girls, Aine is just yuck for me and I also don't like the lesbians but I am really happy with Fry I could easily go on a solo path for her and leala girl also seems really grounded and sweet.

 

[GibboBtw]

Love this game happy I could turn everyone down. Cer went into the basket after the talking about wanting to fuck the other girls, Aine is just yuck for me and I also don't like the lesbians but I am really happy with Fry I could easily go on a solo path for her and leala girl also seems really grounded and sweet.

It genuinely amazes me everytime I remember people exist who play Harem games, but don't actually go for the Harem option. And instead opt for a 'pick and choose' approach.

Baffling to me...

 

[SafeForSure]

It genuinely amazes me everytime I remember people exist who play Harem games, but don't actually go for the Harem option. And instead opt for a 'pick and choose' approach.

Baffling to me...

It's more baffling that someone who plays a choice based game doesn't use the options to get the experience he likes or goes on a forum to whine about someone who does.