VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.5.0.4p] [Ceolag]

4.50 star(s) 62 Votes
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Joshy92

Joshy92

Message Maven
Mar 25, 2021
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yossa999 said:
What have I done! I think I brought another Kaija denier to the thread who doesn't seem to believe she's an angel! :KEK:
Joshy92 , bro, where the hell are you, Kaija’s reputation is questioned by this barbarians again!
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Everytime I come here I see Kaija bashing and it hurts my very soul.

After all we all know Kaija is perfect.
 
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ename144

ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
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Quetzzz said:
I haven't made up my mind about her yet. The fact that she's still keeping secrets about her past and motivation doesn't speak in her favor. But, I also think she's been honest about her feelings. That said, I'm keeping her at arm's length atm, actions speak louder than words. I also want the MC to make her clear up a few things... Exactly where did she draw the line when following orders? Did she ever have to seduce someone else?
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It's a valid question, but I'd be very surprised if seduction was part of the Templars' playbook. Consider what we've seen of them: motorcycles, exo-suits, combat training, recon patrols - it's all focused on physical confrontations. Cianan and Kaija openly wear tattoos that all but broadcast their "secret" allegiance. Even nominally low-key Templar operations, like Paul picking up the MC, have a blunt directness about them. There's no sign of 'human' intel or psy-ops. Combine that with their completely dysfunctional leadership and I don't think the Templars could manage to seduce an AVN LI, much less a high value target.

Granted, they did effectively order Kaija to seduce the MC so it can't be ruled out - but even there her efforts were amateurish at best. To me this has all the earmarks of the Templars attempting something well beyond their skill set, with predictable results.
 
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Quetzzz

Quetzzz

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Sep 29, 2023
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ename144 said:
It's a valid question, but I'd be very surprised if seduction was part of the Templars' playbook. Consider what we've seen of them: motorcycles, exo-suits, combat training, recon patrols - it's all focused on physical confrontations. Cianan and Kaija openly wear tattoos that all but broadcast their "secret" allegiance. Even nominally low-key Templar operations, like Paul picking up the MC, have a blunt directness about them. There's no sign of 'human' intel or psy-ops. Combine that with their completely dysfunctional leadership and I don't think the Templars could manage to seduce an AVN LI, much less a high value target.
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You're right, I did consider this as well... But then the following is also true:
ename144 said:
Granted, they did order Kaija to effectively seduce the MC so it can't be ruled out - but even there her efforts were amateurish at best. To me this has all the earmarks of the Templars attempting something well beyond their skill set, with predictable results.
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Devil's advocate, I'd argue that the MC was a special case, being the son. Still, Kaija knew her secret and activities put stress on her relationship with the MC. It's clear at the start of the game that neither of them are happy with how things are going. We've also met a few people who either resigned or took on different roles, so there was a path for Kaija, if she wanted to prioritize her relationship over her activities.
Let's be fair, how effective is a bodyguard when she's away on missions more often than not?
 
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ename144

ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
3,603
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Quetzzz said:
You're right, I did consider this as well... But then the following is also true:


Devil's advocate, I'd argue that the MC was a special case, being the son. Still, Kaija knew her secret and activities put stress on her relationship with the MC. It's clear at the start of the game that neither of them are happy with how things are going. We've also met a few people who either resigned or took on different roles, so there was a path for Kaija, if she wanted to prioritize her relationship over her activities.
Let's be fair, how effective is a bodyguard when she's away on missions more often than not?
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I agree about the bodyguard part, especially since Kaija will only receive orders to protect the person she's bodyguarding if she has a bad relationship with him. The Doylist explanation is obvious, but the Watsonian explanation is tortured at best. :(

That said, I don't think it's hard to understand why Kaija might not want to retire from the Templars entirely. We've seen a pretty poor showing from them thus far, but they presumably must be capable of doing something well if the Elves went to the effort of trying to disband them. It's entirely possible Kaija can legitimately believe working for them is a net good to the world, in which case I can accept her divided loyalties. Sometimes duty requires us to do things we'd rather not, but that's just life. It's not like she's married to the MC, either. Expecting her to undermine a potential greater good and throw away her whole life (a life she's clearly very good at) just to tell the MC something his own parents insist on hiding from him is, IMHO, unreasonable.

But that's me. I tend to be somewhat forgiving of the 'lawful' end of the spectrum in general.
 
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Quetzzz

Quetzzz

Active Member
Sep 29, 2023
750
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ename144 said:
That said, I don't think it's hard to understand why Kaija might not want to retire from the Templars entirely. We've seen a pretty poor showing from them thus far, but they presumably must be capable of doing something well if the Elves went to the effort of trying to disband them. It's entirely possible Kaija can legitimately believe working for them is a net good to the world, in which case I can accept her divided loyalties. Sometimes duty requires us to do things we'd rather not, but that's just life.
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Absolutely. People make choices and set priorities. But actions have consequences. Personally, seeing how things were going at the start of the game, I don't want to expose the MC to more of that kind of relationship. He's not an agent, he hasn't been trained. If Kaija remains on active duty, I just don't see a happy future. Now that he knows about her activities, he'd not only be feeling lonely/neglected, but also worried.

Now, I do suspect that the MC will go on missions with Kaija as if he were an agent, I'm thinking longer-term than that. Even if they love each other, her priorities are with the Templars. I'm sure it's like you say; that she can do a lot of good that way. And while I can praise her for that, I don't think it makes for a good relationship.
 
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MoBy28

MoBy28

Member
Dec 15, 2023
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So I get the hate for Kaija, but it's a story/game so she will probably play a big part in the story somehow. For that reason alone I made a Kaija path. IRL once the trust is broken, especially the way it happened here, yea would never happen again. Simple reason is you can't trust anything she says including her promise to not lie anymore. As the saying goes "fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me".

Cheaters and Liars are only sorry when they get caught. If they were truly sorry it wouldn't have happened in the first place.
 
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4.50 star(s) 62 Votes