VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.5.0.4p] [Ceolag]

[Gorse]

Tried downloading from Kraken and Zippyshare. Both the files have trojans in them

Most likely a "false positive"... feel free to check the

You must be registered to see the links

.
Everything seems as clean as possible there.

I'm with vogelbeest's reasoning, especially if you use the Windows Defender as virus detection software.
It's unfortunately well-known to cause these "false positives" these days while other softwares don't detect any issue.

I downloaded this compressed version myself some weeks ago via GoFile and had no issue as well

 

[tombeir]

Seems the 32bit exe files are the ones giving these problems, try the uncompressed versions if you can... Windows defender got picky lately on compressed files... So it's almost certainly false positives, but windows defender even cancels downloads and/or prevents opening these files...

thanks. yes it was windows defender which gave the warning

 

[tombeir]

Most likely a "false positive"... feel free to check the

You must be registered to see the links

.
Everything seems as clean as possible there.

I'm with vogelbeest's reasoning, especially if you use the Windows Defender as virus detection software.
It's unfortunately well-known to cause these "false positives" these days while other softwares don't detect any issue.

I downloaded this compressed version myself some weeks ago via GoFile and had no issue as well

Thanks. will try it out

 

[Mipecio]

[Cries inside and deletes contents of entire hard drive to avoid embarrassment over personal preference in gaming.]

J/k. There are way too many of those games, absolutely.

Well, I'm not judging.. people can play what ever they want, but I personally hate those type of games because they lack any type of unique dialogue and story. It is just the same shite recycled over and over again.

 

[Beast161616]

A great story game this is.

 

[ryansFLYIN]

I'm torn on Kaija. I agree mostly with how people has described her, and the difference between the Love and Friend routes are night and day. If we got to spend time with her before everything happened - as we do touring the castle - I think it would have given her more depth and the player more understanding as to the relationship between her and the MC. As someone mentioned, we're introduced to her but we aren't given a history with her or made to want to feel attached/involved with her. I'm not counting her out mostly because of how the Love path went, but the Friend path is... she's so detached from the MC I'd hardly call it the Friend path and more the Babysitter path. At least show some emotion for someone who was even your friend before he was your responsibility.

And, maybe I missed it, but are we all glossing over the LI who, along with her family, allowed chaos and riots to destroy a city and lead to the deaths of hundreds when admittedly she could have stopped it? Who admitted to enjoying that? Kaija is a saint compared to her. Great that she's on the path to redemption, but reveling in chaos and the deaths of innocent civilians when you had the chance to stop it... I'll take Kaija back a hundred times over before I give her a chance.

edit: Also, love a game where we get to kill the badies instead of just knocking them out or leaving them for the police. Will choose it 100% of the time.

 

[Illuminati00]

I'm torn on Kaija. I agree mostly with how people has described her, and the difference between the Love and Friend routes are night and day. If we got to spend time with her before everything happened - as we do touring the castle - I think it would have given her more depth and the player more understanding as to the relationship between her and the MC. As someone mentioned, we're introduced to her but we aren't given a history with her or made to want to feel attached/involved with her. I'm not counting her out mostly because of how the Love path went, but the Friend path is... she's so detached from the MC I'd hardly call it the Friend path and more the Babysitter path. At least show some emotion for someone who was even your friend before he was your responsibility.

And, maybe I missed it, but are we all glossing over the LI who, along with her family, allowed chaos and riots to destroy a city and lead to the deaths of hundreds when admittedly she could have stopped it? Who admitted to enjoying that? Kaija is a saint compared to her. Great that she's on the path to redemption, but reveling in chaos and the deaths of innocent civilians when you had the chance to stop it... I'll take Kaija back a hundred times over before I give her a chance.

edit: Also, love a game where we get to kill the badies instead of just knocking them out or leaving them for the police. Will choose it 100% of the time.

I cannot remember her saying she enjoyed it, but I would not be surprised. She's not really in the competition for LI for me either, mainly because she seems plain, though she could possibly be if there were an evil route, but there is not.

 

[ryansFLYIN]

I cannot remember her saying she enjoyed it, but I would not be surprised. She's not really in the competition for LI for me either, mainly because she seems plain, though she could possibly be if there were an evil route, but there is not.

She said it was only after seeing a young boy dead next to his parents that she changed her mind about it all. Seems it was a bit 'out of sight, out of mind' for her.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

I'm torn on Kaija. I agree mostly with how people has described her, and the difference between the Love and Friend routes are night and day. If we got to spend time with her before everything happened - as we do touring the castle - I think it would have given her more depth and the player more understanding as to the relationship between her and the MC. As someone mentioned, we're introduced to her but we aren't given a history with her or made to want to feel attached/involved with her. I'm not counting her out mostly because of how the Love path went, but the Friend path is... she's so detached from the MC I'd hardly call it the Friend path and more the Babysitter path. At least show some emotion for someone who was even your friend before he was your responsibility.

And, maybe I missed it, but are we all glossing over the LI who, along with her family, allowed chaos and riots to destroy a city and lead to the deaths of hundreds when admittedly she could have stopped it? Who admitted to enjoying that? Kaija is a saint compared to her. Great that she's on the path to redemption, but reveling in chaos and the deaths of innocent civilians when you had the chance to stop it... I'll take Kaija back a hundred times over before I give her a chance.

edit: Also, love a game where we get to kill the badies instead of just knocking them out or leaving them for the police. Will choose it 100% of the time.

Sometimes regardless of how big your fuck up, people look at how are you handling stuff. Kaija is acting like a remorseless, an unapologetic bitch but Fiona is not like that. She carries the burden what she did, she has sorrow over it. Even though it is too early to say anything about her, you can feel genuine sadness from her. This is the same reason people struggle over Kaija's love route because she feels bad about the situation. For the both route she did exactly same thing but when you show remorse people approach you with more understanding. Also, we don't know how involved Fiona was, maybe she just blames herself for what happened but doesn't have anything to blame her except her family. But we do know what Kaija did and we do know Kaija chose that. They said you are gonna protect MC, they didn't say go date/marry him. She thought the best excuse to be around MC is to be with him. So showing remorse and benefit of doubt is your answer.

Now, why I don't like Kaija even in her love route either. Because she is still unapologetic about what she did. Her struggle comes from what she did broke her relationship with MC, that's why she is sad. She is not sad because she understood what she did broke MC eternally, she even didn't understand what she did was fundementally wrong. She is only sad because of her relationship. If she need to do that again, she would do it without hesitation. Also, she admitted she did what she did out of convenience not necessity. She could have kept their friendship and protect MC but she thought that would be harder for her. Then she fell in love with MC in time not the other way around. So whether she loves MC or not she is an evil cult bitch, doesn't have own thoughts, doesn't have own feeling, doesn't have own ideas. She is basically an assassin robot, nothing more. She even had the guts to call MC the next day of confession because THEY ordered her to do so. She should know calling that soon and meeting would hurt MC and even if you refuse to see her she makes you to come. Also remember this is for the both route. I am 100% sure if Templars order her to kill MC, she would do it without hesitation, without question in her both routes and only difference will be she would feel a little bit sad in her so called love route.

 

[ryansFLYIN]

Sometimes regardless of how big your fuck up, people look at how are you handling stuff. Kaija is acting like a remorseless, an unapologetic bitch but Fiona is not like that. She carries the burden what she did, she has sorrow over it. Even though it is too early to say anything about her, you can feel genuine sadness from her. This is the same reason people struggle over Kaija's love route because she feels bad about the situation. For the both route she did exactly same thing but when you show remorse people approach you with more understanding. Also, we don't know how involved Fiona was, maybe she just blames herself for what happened but doesn't have anything to blame her except her family. But we do know what Kaija did and we do know Kaija chose that. They said you are gonna protect MC, they didn't say go date/marry him. She thought the best excuse to be around MC is to be with him. So showing remorse and benefit of doubt is your answer.

Now, why I don't like Kaija even in her love route either. Because she is still unapologetic about what she did. Her struggle comes from what she did broke her relationship with MC, that's why she is sad. She is not sad because she understood what she did broke MC eternally, she even didn't understand what she did was fundementally wrong. She is only sad because of her relationship. If she need to do that again, she would do it without hesitation. Also, she admitted she did what she did out of convenience not necessity. She could have kept their friendship and protect MC but she thought that would be harder for her. Then she fell in love with MC in time not the other way around. So whether she loves MC or not she is an evil cult bitch, doesn't have own thoughts, doesn't have own feeling, doesn't have own ideas. She is basically an assassin robot, nothing more. She even had the guts to call MC the next day of confession because THEY ordered her to do so. She should know calling that soon and meeting would hurt MC and even if you refuse to see her she makes you to come. Also remember this is for the both route. I am 100% sure if Templars order her to kill MC, she would do it without hesitation, without question in her both routes and only difference will be she would feel a little bit sad in her so called love route.

In her love route, the MC doesn't really act that hurt. If you make all of the "Love" choices, then he seems to get over it pretty quickly. I think you are taking the emotional response from the Friend route and applying it here; she's not cold and callous to the MC on the L route. Yes, the friend route paints her harshly and the criticism are mostly valid, but don't mix the two - you don't pull her closer on that bench if you haven't/aren't going to forgive/understand her.

Let's contrast her to Steph from LoF. Kaija was already MC's friend, Steph was ordered to get close to MC. Kaija was told to protect the MC, Steph was told to monitor the MC. Kaija entered the relationship, which she didn't have to do, same with Steph. Kaija is sticking around, Steph just dipped.

In the gym, the trainer said that Kaija was the best because it was like she was training with a purpose. Could that be to protect someone she loves? She didn't start off with negative intentions, she was just asked to protect someone who was already her friend. So her initial feelings towards the MC (friendship-wise) are honest. Her feelings developed over time into a more intimate relationship. She's not spying on the MC, she's tasked to protect him. Someone who was already in her life. Should she have told him? Maybe. But then he has questions. Then he starts talking to people about it if he doesn't get the answers he's looking for. Now, this secret organization is a little less secret. I'm trying to play the role of devil's advocate here and the more I look at it the more I am changing my initial reaction of "the sniveling bitch" to "she had honest reasons". I mean, his parents chose to keep him in the dark. She could have risked losing him forever if she told him. I very much doubt she would have killed him if they ordered her to.

Also, Fiona explained that she could have put an end to it all but she didn't because she thought they were beneath her. She only felt guilt when the saw the product of her inactions. No amount of remorse can bring back hundreds of preventable deaths. Maybe she's exaggerating her ability to have stopped it, I don't know. I'm just going by what she told the MC so far.

 

[Illuminati00]

In her love route, the MC doesn't really act that hurt. If you make all of the "Love" choices, then he seems to get over it pretty quickly. I think you are taking the emotional response from the Friend route and applying it here; she's not cold and callous to the MC on the L route. Yes, the friend route paints her harshly and the criticism are mostly valid, but don't mix the two - you don't pull her closer on that bench if you haven't/aren't going to forgive/understand her.

Let's contrast her to Steph from LoF. Kaija was already MC's friend, Steph was ordered to get close to MC. Kaija was told to protect the MC, Steph was told to monitor the MC. Kaija entered the relationship, which she didn't have to do, same with Steph. Kaija is sticking around, Steph just dipped.

In the gym, the trainer said that Kaija was the best because it was like she was training with a purpose. Could that be to protect someone she loves? She didn't start off with negative intentions, she was just asked to protect someone who was already her friend. So her initial feelings towards the MC (friendship-wise) are honest. Her feelings developed over time into a more intimate relationship. She's not spying on the MC, she's tasked to protect him. Someone who was already in her life. Should she have told him? Maybe. But then he has questions. Then he starts talking to people about it if he doesn't get the answers he's looking for. Now, this secret organization is a little less secret. I'm trying to play the role of devil's advocate here and the more I look at it the more I am changing my initial reaction of "the sniveling bitch" to "she had honest reasons". I mean, his parents chose to keep him in the dark. She could have risked losing him forever if she told him. I very much doubt she would have killed him if they ordered her to.

Also, Fiona explained that she could have put an end to it all but she didn't because she thought they were beneath her. She only felt guilt when the saw the product of her inactions. No amount of remorse can bring back hundreds of preventable deaths. Maybe she's exaggerating her ability to have stopped it, I don't know. I'm just going by what she told the MC so far.

I mean, she responds differently whether or not you began with the love route or not, to understand her character I think it's important to be able to use both "friend" and love route answers.

We have to little information to know if her purpose was us as it could have been a million different purposes, she is incredibly loyal to them after all. She did not start of with negative intentions, she never had negative intentions. But what does it matter if she eventually fell in love with him, it's the same argument with remorse, just because she started loving him later does not mean that it's fine. You say she had her reasons, but those reasons are so incredibly shitty. She could continue playing as his best friend, as a family friend, as a neighbour, as anyone else. She did not need to trick him into believing she loved him just because it was the most convenient for her. Her hiding everything from him was also shitty, but it is shitty as a consequence of the false relationship she tricked him with. It would be a million times less shitty if she just acted as a friend or a neighbour, but that was apparently too annoying to do. She had a choice, she could decide not to emotionally manipulate her childhood friend for some medieval cult, but no, she did it with the aid of the MC's parents. I got angry at her when playing through the game, after a while I also thought that it might not be entirely fair to be so cross with her, but the more I think about it the more I see her as "the sniveling bitch", as you put it.

 

[Kaio Crisis]

I've been following and reading this discussion about Kaija for a few days since I played the game, and man, what a well written story can do to a passionate community! Although I'm very, very curious to continue the story (haven't played Fiona route yet tho), I also got some harsh things to say about how Kaija's relationship was developed, or should I say, was introduced. If you're reading this, Ceolag, I'm not asking for spoilers (or to actually answer my question at the end haha), it's just a wondering of mine, but feel free to clarify anything that you find misjudging.

In my main (and first) run I've got the friend route, but I replayed the game to unlock the gallery entries and got the love route, which Kaija's different reaction confused me a lot, and also a lot of people considering how long the discussion went. Much of the things I have to say are not new, you guys already discussed a lot, but something that picked my attention and got me wondering was about how we just focused on our side of the relationship and never knowing much about her social life. Even in the love route saying she loves MC (I know his default name is Alex, but I'm used to call these VNs protagonist as main character), something is undeniable, we actually don't know much of Kaija, we don't know any of her acquaintances outside the Templars, or even much of her likes and preferences. We only know about one thing: her work ambience and her co-workers, so in other words, the Templars. So, what else does she do?

That sound a bit obvious, since we're playing at the MC's perspective and we already knew from the start she was hiding her background and from now on we are expecting things to be clarified, and the friend route heavily lead us to pursue new LIs, but hey, let's not forget about how we got to know the other LIs. Let's take Elea for example. We know a lot about her work ambience (the same as MC's), we can actually hang out with her doing something she likes and got to know a lot about her background. Elea had a great presentation and I really got some fond for her.

So I think the way we were introduced to Kaija was lacking a lot on this point. I know she was supposed to be mysterious and intriguing, but considering she and MC lived together for years, they didn't had much of a bonding moment or getting to conversate out about her life. Heck, not even flashbacks! The start of the chapter 2 would be perfect for that, before or after those questions regarding if we still love her so we could reflect on that. From now on, it doesn't really matter on which route we are, since they actually only matter for Kaija's side. I'm still curious and intrigued to know more about her background, but regardless of how she acts upon us, we are not only getting to know Kaija from a new perspective, but actually getting to know a whole new person in the end.

So, my question is, how Kaija's background can be developed from here? There could be flashbacks like what we had with MC's father, or actually hanging out with her outside the missions and getting to know more about her that isn't related to work. I think that's my main point, especially if there are acquaintances that she knows from outside the work. Maybe there could be other LIs for her to add some competition in the game, that could get a development in the friend route, although I don't remember much adult VNs that does this. No, I don't want NTR, it could be something to lead to a somewhat final straw in her relationship with MC and closing her route. Altough, the best is to just wait and see how things get developed from here.

Game is 10 out of 10, one of my favorites already.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

In her love route, the MC doesn't really act that hurt. If you make all of the "Love" choices, then he seems to get over it pretty quickly. I think you are taking the emotional response from the Friend route and applying it here; she's not cold and callous to the MC on the L route. Yes, the friend route paints her harshly and the criticism are mostly valid, but don't mix the two - you don't pull her closer on that bench if you haven't/aren't going to forgive/understand her.

I am not mixing up actually. MC gets angry after he learned everthing, he try to leave house. For the "love" choices if you meant he still loves her or hugging her or accept to meet her etc. Those are choices given to players by dev to forgive Kaija of course it will resemble MC forgave Kaija. I am mentioning other choices, if you try heartbroken MC after the confession she simply acts exactly like her "friend" route. You say you don't wanna meet, she forces you to meet with her in the name of Templars. She is joyful without any sorrow when she was giving the tour. She still don't care MC when MC mentioned he got attacked by a succubus. Also the most important part for me, she did not started to do that because she loved MC. She was just a friend with him in the beginning and did what she did out of her convenience. Like I said there are some reedeming sides in her story in love route but still not enough and at the end she does not have any doubts about what she did. They ordered she found a way to do it and that was it for her. After a while, she fell in love with him and it complicated things for her but still not strong enough to confess. Actually what I tried to say perfectly represented when she came to save MC. For friend path, she got order to save MC without it she wouldn't have done it. For love route, she came by herself but she still consider Templars first and after she notice it won't be a problem then she acts. She still belongs to Templars. It would be a little speculation but if she got specific orders to not save MC she wouldn't done it.

Let's contrast her to Steph from LoF. Kaija was already MC's friend, Steph was ordered to get close to MC. Kaija was told to protect the MC, Steph was told to monitor the MC. Kaija entered the relationship, which she didn't have to do, same with Steph. Kaija is sticking around, Steph just dipped.

Actually what Steph did was much much better than Kaija did. They basically did same thing we have that common in that regards but there are 3 major differences between them. First one which is Steph wasn't a friend in the beginning. It was mere a job for her then things got complicated but for Kaija she already had a relation with MC. She willfully broke her friend's heart. Second one is the biggest redeeming factor for Steph, after things get complicated and love got part of the equation she acted. She tried to resign and be with MC. She chose her love over her life. Just because she tried to resign her relationship detoriated with only remaining relative, her father. Kaija kept the secret as long as Templars wanted. She was willing to let MC stay under danger if MC's mother didn't decide to bring him and inform him. MC just a job for her in Friend route and comes much later than Templars and her assassin job for her love route. Third one, Steph got specific orders to become lovers with MC. She didn't have any saying on the topic. On the contrary, Kaija chose that path. She could have been a dear friend and not a lover to MC and still could have managed her job. She said I did it because it was easier for me. She chose ease over her friendship, she chose Templars over MC.

In the gym, the trainer said that Kaija was the best because it was like she was training with a purpose. Could that be to protect someone she loves?

You are just projecting your nice thoughts. There is no sign of that. I easily can say she did it because Templars was her only important thing for her. Also same dialog goes for friend route, so it is very safe to say it's nothing related to her "love"

So her initial feelings towards the MC (friendship-wise) are honest. Her feelings developed over time into a more intimate relationship. She's not spying on the MC, she's tasked to protect him. Someone who was already in her life.

Dude how can you say that? She got close to him to pretend to be a lover to him when she wasn't loving him. She definitely
doesn't had honest reasons. There is no excuse but being "the sniveling bitch" to show fake love to a friend. She simply did him dirty. If she was scared to lose him as a friend, she could have stayed as a friend and protect him that way but she chose to fake. I have no doubt she would kill MC either route if she ordered to do so. She does as they command.

Also, Fiona explained that she could have put an end to it all but she didn't because she thought they were beneath her. She only felt guilt when the saw the product of her inactions. No amount of remorse can bring back hundreds of preventable deaths. Maybe she's exaggerating her ability to have stopped it, I don't know. I'm just going by what she told the MC so far.

Like I said we don't know that. She might have no say. Benefit of the doubt, that is. Also it is safe to say Kaija killed 100s, so being direct killer is still worse than not stopping certain deaths. Still bad but Kaija is basically a trained killer.

 

[bacienvu88]

I mean, she responds differently whether or not you began with the love route or not, to understand her character I think it's important to be able to use both "friend" and love route answers.

Speaking of different Kaija routes. One of the more interesting routes is to begin with friendship and after revelations say you love her. A bit counter-intuitive why the MC would do that in the first place, but it could be a really great path.

 

[ryansFLYIN]

You are just projecting your nice thoughts.

And you're just projecting your not nice thoughts. I didn't say that's what it was, I was asking a question to get people to think in a less narrow view. I get it - betrayal sucks, but I 100% disagree with you about Steph, so there's no point in arguing there. We're not going to see eye-to-eye.

If everyone wants to cast Kaija aside, so be it. It's your play through. I'm just trying to give another side of it having hated her at first, read everything here, replayed it in the love route, and see that her feelings were real and she went with them because we're all human and we all want to love and be loved. That's what I see with her. I think the friendship route really skewed how people look at her love route. We all had that knee-jerk reaction to feeling betrayed and wanted to ship her off, but we're still only at the beginning of this. They didn't really have a talk about all this stuff yet - to put everything out there and see where/how they move on from here. So until then, I'm keeping an open mind and giving someone, with whom the MC has been in a relationship for quite some time, the benefit of the doubt. We met Steph at the bar and heard everything she had to say. We know there's a bar at that castle - maybe we find out more of what was going on in Kaija's head.

Until then, I don't think anyone here is going to change anyone else's mind.

 

[Illuminati00]

Speaking of different Kaija routes. One of the more interesting routes is to begin with friendship and after revelations say you love her. A bit counter-intuitive why the MC would do that in the first place, but it could be a really great path.

That would be very interesting, and I can see certain characters doing that, but unlike many other games, the MC has a personality VERY distinct from our limited choices. It would be an interesting and quite fun route, but I really don't see it being in character at all.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

what a well written story can do to a passionate community!

Couldn't agree more, it really is a masterpiece. We are only discussing one character from the game and she isn't fully revealed yet and we can speak about her pages.

we actually don't know much of Kaija, we don't know any of her acquaintances outside the Templars, or even much of her likes and preferences. We only know about one thing: her work ambience and her co-workers, so in other words, the Templars. So, what else does she do?

That is the thing, she doesn't have. She is just a robot that follows orders. She is not an interesting character per se but her relation and the circumstances she is in are intriguing. They say kill, she kills; they say be a friend, she becomes a friend; the say be a lover, she becomes a lover; they say train, she trains hardest etc. Only good thing can come from her would be a history and vague memories of her stolen childhood. We can say she is a victim of a nasty cult. I would pity to child Kaija and life that she would never lived but today's Kaija is an evil cultist bitch and she should go down with her cult.

No, I don't want NTR, it could be something to lead to a somewhat final straw in her relationship with MC and closing her route. Altough, the best is to just wait and see how things get developed from here.

As far as I am aware there won't be a NTR in this game. Though, in my personal opinion anything Kaija will do won't be under NTR.

 

[Ceolag]

I've been following and reading this discussion about Kaija for a few days since I played the game, and man, what a well written story can do to a passionate community! Although I'm very, very curious to continue the story (haven't played Fiona route yet tho), I also got some harsh things to say about how Kaija's relationship was developed, or should I say, was introduced. If you're reading this, Ceolag, I'm not asking for spoilers (or to actually answer my question at the end haha), it's just a wondering of mine, but feel free to clarify anything that you find misjudging.

In my main (and first) run I've got the friend route, but I replayed the game to unlock the gallery entries and got the love route, which Kaija's different reaction confused me a lot, and also a lot of people considering how long the discussion went. Much of the things I have to say are not new, you guys already discussed a lot, but something that picked my attention and got me wondering was about how we just focused on our side of the relationship and never knowing much about her social life. Even in the love route saying she loves MC (I know his default name is Alex, but I'm used to call these VNs protagonist as main character), something is undeniable, we actually don't know much of Kaija, we don't know any of her acquaintances outside the Templars, or even much of her likes and preferences. We only know about one thing: her work ambience and her co-workers, so in other words, the Templars. So, what else does she do?

That sound a bit obvious, since we're playing at the MC's perspective and we already knew from the start she was hiding her background and from now on we are expecting things to be clarified, and the friend route heavily lead us to pursue new LIs, but hey, let's not forget about how we got to know the other LIs. Let's take Elea for example. We know a lot about her work ambience (the same as MC's), we can actually hang out with her doing something she likes and got to know a lot about her background. Elea had a great presentation and I really got some fond for her.

So I think the way we were introduced to Kaija was lacking a lot on this point. I know she was supposed to be mysterious and intriguing, but considering she and MC lived together for years, they didn't had much of a bonding moment or getting to conversate out about her life. Heck, not even flashbacks! The start of the chapter 2 would be perfect for that, before or after those questions regarding if we still love her so we could reflect on that. From now on, it doesn't really matter on which route we are, since they actually only matter for Kaija's side. I'm still curious and intrigued to know more about her background, but regardless of how she acts upon us, we are not only getting to know Kaija from a new perspective, but actually getting to know a whole new person in the end.

So, my question is, how Kaija's background can be developed from here? There could be flashbacks like what we had with MC's father, or actually hanging out with her outside the missions and getting to know more about her that isn't related to work. I think that's my main point, especially if there are acquaintances that she knows from outside the work. Maybe there could be other LIs for her to add some competition in the game, that could get a development in the friend route, although I don't remember much adult VNs that does this. No, I don't want NTR, it could be something to lead to a somewhat final straw in her relationship with MC and closing her route. Altough, the best is to just wait and see how things get developed from here.

Game is 10 out of 10, one of my favorites already.

Hey there,

I just want to say I read everything here. Every theory, every rant, every praise. I just stay away from any story discussion or question (as I said, I do read them) because I know myself. At some point, I'll start spoiling accidentally. So I draw a hard line and don't answer anything story related. Even the smallest bit. Better safe than sorry.

I like the idea of the flashback at the start of Chapter 2. Duly noted.
Won't make it for Chapter 3, but maybe with the release of Chapter 4 I can fit in a small flashback where MC is reflecting on the past when Jess asks him.

 

[Illuminati00]

And you're just projecting your not nice thoughts. I didn't say that's what it was, I was asking a question to get people to think in a less narrow view. I get it - betrayal sucks, but I 100% disagree with you about Steph, so there's no point in arguing there. We're not going to see eye-to-eye.

If everyone wants to cast Kaija aside, so be it. It's your play through. I'm just trying to give another side of it having hated her at first, read everything here, replayed it in the love route, and see that her feelings were real and she went with them because we're all human and we all want to love and be loved. That's what I see with her. I think the friendship route really skewed how people look at her love route. We all had that knee-jerk reaction to feeling betrayed and wanted to ship her off, but we're still only at the beginning of this. They didn't really have a talk about all this stuff yet - to put everything out there and see where/how they move on from here. So until then, I'm keeping an open mind and giving someone, with whom the MC has been in a relationship for quite some time, the benefit of the doubt. We met Steph at the bar and heard everything she had to say. We know there's a bar at that castle - maybe we find out more of what was going on in Kaija's head.

Until then, I don't think anyone here is going to change anyone else's mind.

I really don't think the "friendship" route skewed the opinion of people. Even if you did do the love route she quite literally states that she began the relationship as a job without having any feelings for you, tricking and lying to you because her cult told her to. You can have an open mind, everyone should. But to say that she has not talked about it is wrong. They can definitely talk more about it, but as was previously said, she admitted to tricking him, to keeping him in the dark. I don't see how it matters if she gained feelings for him afterwards. You don't forgive a murderer just because he starts to feel remorseful. She says she started to genuinely love you, but she never once said that what she did was wrong, that it's bad to trick your childhood friend into thinking you love them because the white-clad boss tells you to.

 

[hysepReC]

Speaking of different Kaija routes. One of the more interesting routes is to begin with friendship and after revelations say you love her. A bit counter-intuitive why the MC would do that in the first place, but it could be a really great path.

I disagree... having the MC says he loves Kaija on the friendship path just makes him look like a pathetic simp. Playing as such a character doesn't interest me at all. The time they spent together as boyfriend and girlfriend was a lie, a sham, it was fake. You can't love someone if you don't truly know them, at most, the MC loved who he thought Kaija was.