VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.5.0] [Ceolag]

[nitkonikic]

Yeah no, sorry, I'm not gonna read 50% of the comments on this thread... feel free to enlighten me, tho, I'm always open to be proven wrong.
Again, I wish I could properly explain what it is that bugged me about the relationship structuring or design or whatever you wanna call it, but it's hard.

You don't have to, I made that as a jest as 50% comments are about Kaija (positive or negative, either goes).
Her being girlfriend (and her reasons for that) have been repeated over and over and over, to the point even most zealous of us got annoyed with it (Fuck Kaija though).

I'll say this tho, regarding your comment: "So just because girls are there, doesn't mean you HAVE TO flirt with them." I mean, but you kinda have to?? That's kinda the point of AVNs, to be fair... it's what most people are gonna do by default, and that IS part of the problem... you need to flirt with them to hop on their path and engage with them, yet you need to choose quite early... that was my point, maybe it would be better to allow players to interact more with them before making them choose, otherwise it feels like I'm just arbitrarily choosing one over the other with little information to back that decision up.

I fail to see why you have to flirt with them.
The point of the story is what dev + player make of it. If dev makes only erotic scenes, with no friendship content, then yes, I agree.
But in a VN that has multiple developed scenes where friends talk, why not experience those? They are there for a reason.
Dev spent time making them so not pursuing relationship is not punished.

Let me give an example:
"I woke up"...fade to black..."I took a shower"...fade to black..."I went to work"...fade to black..."I went to lunch"...fade to black..."I went home"...
That was an update from one of VNs I played. All of those fade to black are sexual content with various girls. Not on sex route? No content. None, zero, zilch.

Meanwhile, you want to be friends with Fiona or Elea and hang out with them? You don't max your points, but you still get a lot of them, and you still hang out (cinema, night club, beach, park). There is still content. Content with different dialogue.
Did you know you can have max-1 points (no clue where that point is) with Fiona even if you never talk to her first time you meet her?
On 2nd meeting you can engage with her for much longer than normal conversation and get relationship up to speed.

Heck, it might even be more organic that way. Someone bumping into you in street is hardly conversation starter. You meet someone that bumped into you previously while exercising? Much more likely to start a chat.

Like, how should I choose whether I still love Kaija or not so early? I have very little info and interactions with the character... it just feels like a forced choice to split the PTs, it doesn't feel organic.

Well, that's chapter 1, and then chapter 2.
There are some bombshells dropped during those 2. Was it chapter 3 with big conversation between the two?
I disagree on little info. She is basically info dump chapter 1-2-3.

And please don't take these as any sort of assault on you, I'm genuinely interested why you think there is not enough info on Kaija. Between mentioned huge scenes + flashback scene, I honestly think there is more than enough for player to decide if he wants to chase relationship or not.

 

[Jacowboy]

You don't have to, I made that as a jest as 50% comments are about Kaija (positive or negative, either goes).
Her being girlfriend (and her reasons for that) have been repeated over and over and over, to the point even most zealous of us got annoyed with it (Fuck Kaija though).



I fail to see why you have to flirt with them.
The point of the story is what dev + player make of it. If dev makes only erotic scenes, with no friendship content, then yes, I agree.
But in a VN that has multiple developed scenes where friends talk, why not experience those? They are there for a reason.
Dev spent time making them so not pursuing relationship is not punished.

Let me give an example:
"I woke up"...fade to black..."I took a shower"...fade to black..."I went to work"...fade to black..."I went to lunch"...fade to black..."I went home"...
That was an update from one of VNs I played. All of those fade to black are sexual content with various girls. Not on sex route? No content. None, zero, zilch.

Meanwhile, you want to be friends with Fiona or Elea and hang out with them? You don't max your points, but you still get a lot of them, and you still hang out (cinema, night club, beach, park). There is still content. Content with different dialogue.
Did you know you can have max-1 points (no clue where that point is) with Fiona even if you never talk to her first time you meet her?
On 2nd meeting you can engage with her for much longer than normal conversation and get relationship up to speed.

Heck, it might even be more organic that way. Someone bumping into you in street is hardly conversation starter. You meet someone that bumped into you previously while exercising? Much more likely to start a chat.



Well, that's chapter 1, and then chapter 2.
There are some bombshells dropped during those 2. Was it chapter 3 with big conversation between the two?
I disagree on little info. She is basically info dump chapter 1-2-3.

And please don't take these as any sort of assault on you, I'm genuinely interested why you think there is not enough info on Kaija. Between mentioned huge scenes + flashback scene, I honestly think there is more than enough for player to decide if he wants to chase relationship or not.

Uhm, well, when you talk to the sister early in ch2, you have the first choice of whether you still lover her, don't know, or not... maybe that doesn't lock you into anything, but there's no way to know that as a player, and considering some of the other choices, you can't really know for sure...

And no, I don't think even the flashback was enough, because again, the problem with starting with a GF is that you're not getting the whole picture of the characters and their interactions with the MC, and no, a flashback and a couple of info dumps don't do it, imo.

As for the rest, don't get me wrong, I do agree with you about the content, it's the execution that bugged me... more often than not it's the execution that I have issues with, not the ideas or the stories per-se.

I understand if it's a me kind of problem tho, if everyone else is fine with it, then maybe I'm just weird... fair enough =P

 

[Maviarab]

I am not counting Anissa since she's not LI but just an occasional fling.

Yeah...I'ma have to work on Ceo regarding this....

 

[Maviarab]

Alright guys....for those who prefer written to mod:

Walkthrough attached for v0-5-0

Edit: Now in OP. Thanks mods.

 

[Milton749]

Alright guys....for those who prefer written to mod:

Walkthrough attached for v0-5-0

 

[Tremonia]

Alright guys....for those who prefer written to mod:

Walkthrough attached for v0-5-0

Nice work. Looks like the ones from Zoey Raven.

 

[Maviarab]

Nice work. Looks like the ones from Zoey Raven.

I prefer that style to be honest and yes, used previous WT's of hers as a base template to get started (as I did with the original Intertwined WT I used to do before I had to step away and allowed Bubu to take it over). I will keep up with this one though.

 

[xapican]

Maviarab ; great work, just a question the Callister terrace wasn't it called Nevergreen ? not Neverwhere ?

 

[Tremonia]

Maviarab ; great work, just a question the Callister terrace wasn't it called Nevergreen ? not Neverwhere ?

Yep, it's Nevergreen, an inside joke about The Simpsons.

 

[Maviarab]

Maviarab ; great work, just a question the Callister terrace wasn't it called Nevergreen ? not Neverwhere ?

There's always one isn't there

Fixed and updated. (Weird how got it wrong twice early chapters but right in Ch5...oh well.)

Thanks Xap

 

[Tremonia]

Weird how got it wrong twice early chapters but right in Ch5...oh well.

It's not healthy to be on Ceo's server while trying to do something useful. The weirdos there messing up your mind. It's not your fault. It's all on them.

 

[CrazyRabbit]

That ending wow wasn't expecting that.

Tell me about it....

 

[xapican]

Big Thank's to the Staff and to the Mod of this thread, you already moved the Links to the PDF Walktrough and the Neverwhere Lore thread to the OP !

 

[Adhdclassic]

Tell me about it....

Would love it if in their traditions you have sex with them you are classified as their spouse. Which means you have say on what you want done on behalf of your wife.

 

[CrazyRabbit]

Would love it if in their traditions you have sex with them you are classified as their spouse. Which means you have say on what you want done on behalf of your wife.

Yeah, like not going on patrol or whatever that was...

 

[Quetzzz]

First of all, it's (almost) always a mistake to begin a game with a girlfriend, even more so like in this game where you need to make a lot of seemingly important decisions with little information at hand very early.

I think you have a point here. The relationship with Kaija isn't handled/exposed in the best way.
- Our first choice with her: love tap, or say hello. We have no idea that Kaija actually hates being startled with the love tap, and first-time players could think a “hello” is too Platonic. At the same time, Alex would know this, he's been with her for years.
- There's very little framing about how the relationship is already in a bad place at the start of the game. We see both Kaija and Alex at their worst. This biases the player against Kaija (Alex makes some passive-aggressive remarks, even sighs when Kaija calls, is tired of her being messy, and annoyed when she doesn't keep her promise of letting him know when she arrived.)
- Only after shit has hit the fan, do we get actual exposition about their relationship.

This is honestly one of only a few criticisms I have of the game. I would love a bit of framing that describes the relationship going through a(nother) rough patch, and that it's up to the player to decide if Alex puts in effort to support Kaija regardless, or if he's just done with it. I also think that the first choice needs a bit of framing as well, maybe with the MC thinking "She hates being startled, but that ass is just too tempting."

 

[OhTheLove]

No! No! This can't be happening!! Finnabair can't be dead!!! She was now my favourite secondary heroine!!! Someone has to be pay for this!!!"That was simply heart wrenching!!

 

[Dr.TSoni]

I think you have a point here. The relationship with Kaija isn't handled/exposed in the best way.
- Our first choice with her: love tap, or say hello. We have no idea that Kaija actually hates being startled with the love tap, and first-time players could think a “hello” is too Platonic. At the same time, Alex would know this, he's been with her for years.
- There's very little framing about how the relationship is already in a bad place at the start of the game. We see both Kaija and Alex at their worst. This biases the player against Kaija (Alex makes some passive-aggressive remarks, even sighs when Kaija calls, is tired of her being messy, and annoyed when she doesn't keep her promise of letting him know when she arrived.)
- Only after shit has hit the fan, do we get actual exposition about their relationship.

This is honestly one of only a few criticisms I have of the game. I would love a bit of framing that describes the relationship going through a(nother) rough patch, and that it's up to the player to decide if Alex puts in effort to support Kaija regardless, or if he's just done with it. I also think that the first choice needs a bit of framing as well, maybe with the MC thinking "She hates being startled, but that ass is just too tempting."

I have to admit that it's a valid criticism

 

[xapican]

This is honestly one of only a few criticisms I have of the game. I would love a bit of framing that describes the relationship going through a(nother) rough patch, and that it's up to the player to decide if Alex puts in effort to support Kaija regardless, or if he's just done with it. I also think that the first choice needs a bit of framing as well, maybe with the MC thinking "She hates being startled, but that ass is just too tempting."

Well, afortunatly that is something what could be resolved with a short Introduction text. (on the other hand the average F95 don't read ) .
Yes that is a good point, I remeber the back and forth we had as it turned out, that the ass slap gives negative Kaija points (at least the ass slaper faction got exposed including myself )

 

[Dark Silence]

Well, afortunatly that is something what could be resolved with a short Introduction text. (on the other hand the average F95 don't read ) .
Yes that is a good point, I remeber the back and forth we had as it turned out, that the ass slap gives negative Kaija points (at least the ass slaper faction got exposed including myself )

"afortunatly"? Say what now?

Also: "remeber" should be "remember". I have issues with that one a lot myself. lol

And: "slaper" should be "slapper".

Just trying to help you, bro. Not being one of them "what's its".