VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.6.0.1] [Ceolag]

[Elhemeer]

Okay, I'm risking spoilers by asking this while being an update behind, but when the group arrives for the return of dad, the MC specifically thinks about the lack of obvious light sources and the dim orange tint to the lighting in the area still ... yet bright-white chest-tall light sources are everywhere. Am I missing a patch, or is this just something that gets a handwave?

Spoiler: Giant white glowsticks ...

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[Pixillin']

Not quite. Ailill says he will grant the MC safe passage to speak in Alfheimr, but does NOT say that speaking to the Alfar is a bad idea or something more dangerous than the MC's journey to this point. He notably does not specify that the MC will be in greater danger the instant he's done speaking, either. In fact, when the MC asks if Finnabair will stab him in the back, Ailill only says "She will respect the oath her father gave to you." Which turns out to be untrue: she at best grudgingly obeys a questionable interpretation of the letter of the law and flagrantly disregards the spirit. And he takes no action to hinder Finnabair when she challenges the MC to a duel against his wishes.

It's true that Nightingale says going to see the elves will get him killed, but then again the MC has no reason to consider her more of an expert on the Alfar than Kari (to say nothing of Ailill), so her advice is hardly definitive proof. But in the end, I don't think it matters. I agree the MC was acting foolishly here, but just because he's a fool that doesn't mean the people capitalizing on his naivety are in the right to do so.

The whole point of a flag of truce is to negotiate in safety; once the truce is accepted, it makes no difference (from an ethical sense) whether the person seeking was doing so on their own or at the behest of a larger organization. Granting a truce only to kill someone the instant the parley ends unsuccessfully defeats the point of the truce in the first place, which was to return the parties to the state they were in when they ASKED for the truce, not whatever state they're caught in part way through. Much like the way Medb refused to acknowledge the MC's refusal to duel yet took defending himself as an irrevocable acceptance, it's an underhanded practice that makes a mockery of the rules it purports to impose.

The Alfar get huffy whenever anyone calls them on their duplicity, but in my view the shoe fits.

Well, we see things in completely opposite ways. I consider Medb and the Alfar honorable and honest, if a bit prejudiced and consider the Templars incompetent, duplicitous, cowardly, elitist, self-important, prejudiced, and bordering on evil - pretty much all of them.

 

[ename144]

Okay, I'm risking spoilers by asking this while being an update behind, but when the group arrives for the return of dad, the MC specifically thinks about the lack of obvious light sources and the dim orange tint to the lighting in the area still ... yet bright-white chest-tall light sources are everywhere. Am I missing a patch, or is this just something that gets a handwave?

Spoiler: Giant white glowsticks ...

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I don't know what you're talking about, Elhemeer. There are only 5 lights.

Honestly, the simplest explanation is that the setting Ceolag was using has the lightsticks as part of the model, he planned to remove them but couldn't, and forgot to rework the dialog. But who wants a Doylist explanation when we can cobble together a convoluted Watsonian one. So:

• The MC was initially talking about the Ghost Lights which are the eerie source-less pools of light that move randomly (in those scenes there aren't any visible glowsticks)
• The lightsticks in the later scenes are a separate source of lights added by the Templar recon team specifically for better lighting at the meeting; they are so comparatively mundane the MC didn't even feel the need to mention them!
• The orange illumination on the ruins is a third source of light, which like the Ghost Light has no visible origin but seems to be stronger and unmoving
• The MC's final comment about the light have no source was directed specifically at the ruins-illuminating phenomenon, not the old hat Ghost Lights or boringly normal lightsticks.

For what it's worth, when the MC returns to the general area in Chapter 5 there are no lightsticks, and we do see a few of the Ghost Light effects on occasion. So my explanation is only convoluted in the sense that the MC never mentions the lightsticks as being a separate phenomenon.

 

[UnoriginalUserName]

I don't know what you're talking about, Elhemeer. There are only 5 lights.

 

[PaxHadrian17]

I'm with you my friend. I do like Medb, but Elea is still #1 for me at the moment.

For me, Fiona and Elea are about equal as LI's, with Medb slightly below them.

Even on the 'high trust' path with Kaija, I still know that there have been lies of omission - so I don't fully trust Kaija just as I no longer fully trust the MC's parents.

I think Kaija has the deepest pit to climb out of if she will regain a 'competitive' footing with the other 3 primary LIs.

I know Ceolag can give us that story arc, but I have no idea how many revs it will take to get there.

Cheers!!

 

[yossa999]

Yeah, and if you do kill Finn, Medb wants to kill the MC for the heinous crime of not dying; it was the rest of the Alfar who insist on keeping him alive for ransom. And before you say the MC shouldn't be killing Alfar when he claims to come in peace, I remind you that at no point prior to the fateful decision did Medb mention that disarming an opponent was sufficient to win the duel - even when Finnabair was ranting about killing the MC if he didn't finish her off.

The fact Medb only warms to the MC if he'd literally rather die than defend himself from her daughter is, IMHO, a serious mark against her. She has a disturbing lack of empathy.

Also, is there any solid confirmation that Medb is actually #4 in the Alfar pecking order? We know she's powerful, and we know she isn't one of the three Monarchs, but it's not clear how many other powerful and/or influential Alfar might be out there.

I can't believe, such a logical and consistent opinion in this thread. We don't do that here!

I'll add that I'm sure that if there was some impudent young male elf instead of Finnabair, who would have been constantly rude to the MC and yelled that the fight was to the death and that one of them would definitely die, I seriously doubt that the percentage of those who spared the asshole would have been the same as in the case of the arrogant busty blonde.

 

[Krytax123]

I can't believe, such a logical and consistent opinion in this thread. We don't do that here!

I'll add that I'm sure that if the was some impudent young male elf instead of Finnabair, who would have been constantly rude to the MC and yelled that the fight was to the death and that one of them would definitely die, I seriously doubt that the percentage of those who spared the asshole would have been the same as in the case of the arrogant busty blonde.

Since they are the good guys, finnabair is a sexy chick good guys are always hot like medb while the evil ones look like the strathanator

We prefer girls who try to kill us multiple times over girls who try to protect us but arent entirely honest about their job here!!!

 

[motseer]

Okay, I'm risking spoilers by asking this while being an update behind, but when the group arrives for the return of dad, the MC specifically thinks about the lack of obvious light sources and the dim orange tint to the lighting in the area still ... yet bright-white chest-tall light sources are everywhere. Am I missing a patch, or is this just something that gets a handwave?

Spoiler: The Source of Light According to mot

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[Tulrek]

You guys go chase Kaija, Medb, Fiona, and Kate.

I'm happy having Elea alllllll to myself.
View attachment 4410145

 

[nitkonikic]

No idea. Elea needed some love, in the last few pages all the LIs and a few of the other girls like Kate have got some lovin' but poor Elea was being left out in the cold, so I just had to claim her for myself.

Ah, nah, nah, nah, you can't have my sweetheart.

As for no love for her, thing about Elea is that she's just normal.
As in, vanilla option.

For me, that's her biggest advantage and big part of her charm (I also like her personality).
But for many, it will be her biggest negative.

She will be too simple, too bland, for most.
In a VN with superhero agent, superpowered elf and mysterious redhead, a simple, nerdy, working colleague blond really doesn't stand out.

Again, that's what makes her my favorite, because she's also a potential option for MC to one day lead normal life (though I seriously doubt Ceo will allow it, considering only one ending).

 

[Pixillin']

We prefer girls who try to kill us multiple times over girls who try to protect us but arent entirely honest about their job here!!!

Saying that Kajia isn't "entirely honest" is like saying the Taliban aren't "all feminists". At any rate, I was ready to dump Kajia before the thing with the mercenaries.

 

[Wolfram99]

Ah, nah, nah, nah, you can't have my sweetheart.

As for no love for her, thing about Elea is that she's just normal.
As in, vanilla option.

For me, that's her biggest advantage and big part of her charm (I also like her personality).
But for many, it will be her biggest negative.

She will be too simple, too bland, for most.
In a VN with superhero agent, superpowered elf and mysterious redhead, a simple, nerdy, working colleague blond really doesn't stand out.

Again, that's what makes her my favorite, because she's also a potential option for MC to one day lead normal life (though I seriously doubt Ceo will allow it, considering only one ending).

You never know, maybe Fiona or Elea will decide to make an attempt on MC's life like the rest of them

 

[UnoriginalUserName]

Saying that Kajia isn't "entirely honest" is like saying the Taliban aren't "all feminists".

Insurgent A : "Has anyone seen Muhammad? We need to start the meeting."
Insurgent B (Muhammad) : "Sorry, sorry. I had to drive my girl to her tea thing with her friends. Then I had to drive her back. Honestly guys, this whole "Don't let them drive" stuff is very annoying."
Insurgents A, C, D, E, F, G, and H :
Insurgent A : "Stone him!!"

 

[Knightcvel]

Definitely. Also Kajia - if you don’t follow your love path, and ask if she ever loved you she says something like “there was something there, but I wouldn’t call it love”. Ceo says this is in keeping with her personality. So she’s been fucking you for … years? however long because it was part of a mission. If all of that is true, how confident are you that MC is the only one she fucked as part of a mission during that time? I’m sure it will never be directly addressed, but she does talk about hanging around brothels in the seedier parts of Neverwhere “gathering information”. I can’t say for sure that she cheated but given everything else she was dishonest about, I wouldn’t rule it out either. It’s one of the problems with being deceitful and untrustworthy … people then can’t trust you.

If you all remember soon in the beggining MC woke up and saw her clothes and one of them seemed like one of those skirts used by whores. She worked until late at the night and didn't want to awake MC. Actually, she seemed to be in one of those undercovers missions acting as a whore and as soon she come back she didn't want MC seeing her garb.

 

[yossa999]

Geez, I was starting to forget how awesome Kaija is! Thanks for reminding me, guys!

 

[yossa999]

I am also very impressed guys with your ability to accurately determine a girl's sluttiness by her scattered clothes and the type of skirt she is wearing. I need some expert's help, what do you think, these... hmm... shorts, are they decent? Their owner is a modest girl, right?

 

[Dessolos]

man it's too early in the day for Kaija hate or shitpost for people but at least I can admire her ass

 

[yossa999]

man it's too early in the day for Kaija hate or shitpost for people but at least I can admire her ass

That's the point, we should be admiring slutty outfits, not shaming girls for wearing them!

 

[Elduriel]

man it's too early in the day for Kaija hate or shitpost for people but at least I can admire her ass

what ass?

 

[nitkonikic]

I am also very impressed guys with your ability to accurately determine a girl's sluttiness by her scattered clothes and the type of skirt she is wearing. I need some expert's help, what do you think, these... hmm... shorts, are they decent? Their owner is a modest girl, right?
View attachment 4416634

Out of all the things to hate about Kaija, some people bring up one of her positives....

Sigh...You're not helping guys!!!
You're just converting more people to Templars cause. Stop it.