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VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.6.0.2] [Ceolag]

4.30 star(s) 69 Votes

Dessolos

Board Buff
Jul 25, 2017
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I guess you also think the succubus who tried to kill you can be redeemed also? :ROFLMAO:
all comes down to context for me combined with my personality im unable to have a harsh view or reaction towards people. In this scenario hell no she did that shit on purpose she is a killer. But under a certain context or scenario I would think she could be redeemed for sure.
 
Oct 10, 2022
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Definitely agree. I play the Kaija love path because I think she can be redeemed. I hate what her and the parents did. She was young, she has the chance to sort out her life in the story ahead and redeem herself. Whether I can be persuaded enough to change my dislike for her to positive feelings remains to be seen. Although, I don't hate her but I don't like her either.
As official member of "fuck Kaija" club, I am in no way defending her, just explaining why I think people might like her.
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Dark Silence

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Jul 17, 2021
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all comes down to context for me combined with my personality im unable to have a harsh view or reaction towards people. In this scenario hell no she did that shit on purpose she is a killer. But under a certain context or scenario I would think she could be redeemed for sure.
How do you know though? Maybe she was just unable to control her emotions and she just momentarily went insane and lashed out tryin to feed to help herself?
justsaying-selenagomez.gif
 

Leongen43

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Dec 4, 2022
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I guess you also think the succubus who tried to kill you can be redeemed also? :ROFLMAO:
If you are married, if you can believe in Kaija's redemption, all the times my wife used me as a laboratory RAT to try her magic recipes that I saw on the Internet, I love my wife but just in case my will is already made:eek: :LOL:
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Avaron1974

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Aug 22, 2018
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How do you know though? Maybe she was just unable to control her emotions and she just momentarily went insane and lashed out tryin to feed to help herself?
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She was already being hunted so did something to put her on their radar not to mention the later conversation with the Elves about demons being seen again after the war they had with them to push them back.

So demons are on the move, she was there to kill.
 
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How do you know though? Maybe she was just unable to control her emotions and she just momentarily went insane and lashed out tryin to feed to help herself?
She is actually more redeemable than Kaija. Hunting is in her nature. I'd never wrong a lion for hunting a gazelle, sure it's a sad scene but that how nature works. As for Erika too. Is being a backstabbing bitch is in Kaija's blood? Actually yeah, so they are more or less same. :LOL:
 

Dark Silence

Devoted Member
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haha that was one of scenario's that ran through my head that she could be redeemed as I was tying my reply
Well, it's actually a moot point. As the white girl(double entendre is intended here) caught up to her and ended any redemption arc that may have been feasibly argued. :ROFLMAO:

She was already being hunted so did something to put her on their radar not to mention the later conversation with the Elves about demons being seen again after the war they had with them to push them back.

So demons are on the move, she was there to kill.
Maybe, maybe not. We'll never know though. But I was just bein facetious and continuin my point about Kaija in a response to Grumpy Old Aussie :ROFLMAO:
 

ename144

Engaged Member
Sep 20, 2018
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Few things to say about Kaija.
What was the end goal in her mind though?
What if MC wanted marriage/children?
What if she actually fell in love with someone?

The reason why I find her irredeemable on "friend" path is because I can't stop thinking of above.
Naturally, love and "friend" path make Kaija a completely different person, and love path would be (somewhat) possible to answer by simple: "They go for it and she comes clean".

"Friend" path just baffles me.
How did she think it would end? There is simply no long-term scenario where it doesn't come crashing and burning down worse than Hindenburg.
She leaves scorched earth behind, while hoping to have trust from the person whose life she destroyed?
If MC develops genuine feelings based on complete lie, what then?

For role-playing sake, think how utterly devastated MC in love with Kaija would be on 0 points chapter 1 run.
Just think about it for a minute. Here's a guy, in love with his childhood friend, she returned his feelings, he's happy...then it turns out all of that is a lie. She doesn't love him. She was with him only because it's her job.

Again, I am talking low-points, still love her option taken scenario.

Love path gives completely different story, and one where I can see why people would be willing to forgive and forget. She suffers and genuinely feels sorry for what she did.
Bench scene is day and night difference. Shower scene (one with achievement) shows how messed up she gets.
Even on this one, though, I have to ask similar questions. How did she think it will end up?
She entered relationship for all the wrong reasons. That sucks. Her actions after she developed feelings for MC change the narrative completely though, and redemption feels deserved.
Not that I'm going to pursue romance on any of the paths, but I am happily following high-points route to see her development there.

Kaija is such an amazing character, and just like an amazing movie/tv show villain, I love everything that happens around her.
This does raise one of the real questions though: if the MC has 0 points with Kaija, did he actually love her? I'm inclined to think not. The two clearly weren't on the same page in terms of how they like being treated and aren't especially forgiving of the others' habits. Given the retroactive backstory at play, it seems likely the MC's attitude towards Kaija was as tepid as her attitude towards him.

Obviously this is problematic since WE are the MC and just because we picked an action doesn't necessarily mean we buy into the way the game interprets that action (especially early on when we're still getting the lay of the land). But that's water under the bridge at this point.


It reminds me a few other games tbh. I.e. Cassie from Artemis, she probably had her reasons why she betrayed MC but there can't be redemption for her. Or Steph from Leap of Faith, she had her reasons I do understand I wish her happy life, away from MC. Or Ana from Acting Lessons, she betrayed MC. She was right in her mind but that does not make what she did acceptable. No redemption for her too. Or Marie from Triple Ex. She did what she did to save MC's life in her mind but that broke MC. Not only her but entire family betrayed MC. No redemption for them either. All betrayed, some hurt more than others and all of them had their reasons but if they choose to betray with whatever their reason, that is the end of it.
Steph and Ana are good comparisons to Kaija, but Cassandra is not. There's a big difference between taking advantage of someone and actively trying to destroy them. Cassandra not only deceived her MC, she deliberately stole his life's work and career opportunity, leaving with nothing - to the point he nearly killed himself. Then, when she learned he was trying to rebuild his life, she badmouthed him to prospective employers just for fun.

That's a level of malice even the MC's parents in this game can't match.


How do you know though? Maybe she was just unable to control her emotions and she just momentarily went insane and lashed out tryin to feed to help herself?
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Gosh, you're right I hadn't considered it from that angle before. :unsure: I guess I'll have to reevaluate the succubus' actions in light of the full history between her and the MC, mindful of the mitigating factors that might apply.

Oh wait, that's right, her trying to kill the MC was their entire history together. Never mind. Back to the stake with her!
 
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Oct 10, 2022
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Steph and Ana are good comparisons to Kaija, but Cassandra is not. There's a big difference between taking advantage of someone and actively trying to destroy them. Cassandra not only deceived her MC, she deliberately stole his life's work and career opportunity, leaving with nothing - to the point he nearly killed himself. Then, when she learned he was trying to rebuild his life, she badmouthed him to prospective employers just for fun.
I was comparing them on betrayal front. I think Steph is much better than others too. Cassandra had her reasons, she even thought she was right. Probably same as Kaija she had problems with her family which lay the path.

That's a level of malice even the MC's parents in this game can't match.
I am not entirely sure about this. His mother tried to hide things even after everything revealed. MC has every right to despise Templars but when he makes a joke on Eric, she tried to shut MC up. She even blamed MC(using the verb loosely here) for Paul's death. If they somehow convinced to push MC to near suicide, they'd do it in a heatbeat.
 

Dark Silence

Devoted Member
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Oh wait, that's right, her trying to kill the MC was their entire history together. Never mind. Back to the stake with her!
Actually, no. It wasn't. She tried to seduce him first. She was already in a very bad emotional state and when he refused her, she became confused and attacked him. :ROFLMAO:
 

Maviarab

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This does raise one of the real questions though: if the MC has 0 points with Kaija, did he actually love her? I'm inclined to think not. The two clearly weren't on the same page in terms of how they like being treated and aren't especially forgiving of the others' habits. Given the retroactive backstory at play, it seems likely the MC's attitude towards Kaija was as tepid as her attitude towards him.
I don't think it does or says that at all and the dialogue itself shows that. I think you're projecting there in all honesty.

It's shown, very clearly, the MC is starting to get fed up with the way Kaija treats him and the relationship. So at the start, sure, he becoming miffed at her never being around. Perfectly normal if you ask me from anyone in any relationship. So getting zero points with her, due to in all reality, quite innocent actions...is not a reflection of the MC never caring.

If anything, with what we are presented, he cares more than she does, and are probably only still together because of the MC.
 

Dark Silence

Devoted Member
Jul 17, 2021
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What's wrong with Kaija wanting to kill the MC? Maybe it's a preview of what it's like to live as a couple, especially when you have to pay the rent, right? :unsure: :CAKE:
Umm What? We were talkin about the poor succubus. Kaija's a lost cause.
 
4.30 star(s) 69 Votes