VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.6.0.2] [Ceolag]

[Tremonia]

I don't know. That's what's tripping me up. Why not use the the term daughter or child? Why not tell him that full truth here? The parents are supposed to be convincing their children to trust them by being open and honest with them, and yet they are clearly tip-toeing around the truth (assuming that Elea is Linnaes daughter).

Using the word "family" implies it's more than just one other person. When Hilda said Linnae lost her family through the service for the Templars it's obvious it's not meant she just lost her husband by leaving her. She lost her family. Husband and children(s). There was no need for Hilda to be more specific because it doesn't matter in the conversation they had.

 

[PaxHadrian17]

Burned bridges reference in that conversation with Linnae.

Coincidence, or just planned well in advance...

Granted, I've only done conversation with her once, and that strengthened my opinion she should not be trusted.

Her reply to being asked if she regrets losing family to stay a templar as "sometimes" just shows she is theirs.
If she left her family for Templars, betraying MC for the good of the order would be walk in the park.

Shame MC has to spend so much time speaking with her, but hey, story needs are story needs. He has to talk to someone to get story exposition

Man, do I not trust or like Linnae one bit...

I actually like Linnea.

Spoiler: Linnea Background Missing

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She was one voice on the high council that voted to tell the MC what was going on and not keep him in the dark.

She got outvoted and did not choose to 'die on that hill.'

I like the expression - you get to choose one hill to die on - make your moral stand and come what may, you can accept whatever damage comes from the decision to stand your ground because the action you took Needed to happen.

Linnea strikes me as a doer versus a talker - she knew the council would deadlock on the decision to send the MC with Kaija into Neverwhere and she thought this decision was so important she risked losing her voice on the council to see it done.

IMO - the council is more damaged now, even with the return of the Grandmaster, because Linnea's voice is no longer a part of those discussions.

Who replaced her on the high council and are they part of the faction that openly or secretly wants a war with the Alfar?

I'm looking forward to more time with Linnea and more revelations.

How far the MC can trust her remains to be seen but I certainly trust her more than the Kaija who chose to be a fake girlfriend for five years to make her job easier.

Cheers!!

 

[nitkonikic]

I actually like Linnea.

Spoiler: Linnea Background Missing

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She was one voice on the high council that voted to tell the MC what was going on and not keep him in the dark.

She got outvoted and did not choose to 'die on that hill.'

I like the expression - you get to choose one hill to die on - make your moral stand and come what may, you can accept whatever damage comes from the decision to stand your ground because the action you took Needed to happen.

Linnea strikes me as a doer versus a talker - she knew the council would deadlock on the decision to send the MC with Kaija into Neverwhere and she thought this decision was so important she risked losing her voice on the council to see it done.

IMO - the council is more damaged now, even with the return of the Grandmaster, because Linnea's voice is no longer a part of those discussions.

Who replaced her on the high council and are they part of the faction that openly or secretly wants a war with the Alfar?

I'm looking forward to more time with Linnea and more revelations.

How far the MC can trust her remains to be seen but I certainly trust her more than the Kaija who chose to be a fake girlfriend for five years to make her job easier.

Cheers!!

I agree, fully. Almost, I don't like her.

And yes, I definitely trust her more than Kaija, but that's not a very high bar.

And while I'm definitely grateful she voted against Kaija entering fake relationship with MC, she is still the person that chose job over family.
Same way MCs family did.

Now, honestly, think I prefer what she did over what MCs parents did.
They just disgust me (Kaija topic), whereas she had a choice between family or work and decided on work.

She left her family, and that's something I would personally never be able to forgive (real life included, that's one of the biggest sins I can think of for a parent, if she turns out to be Elea's mother), but she didn't deceive, lie and ruin her families life so she could tap herself on her back on a job well done.
She took hard decision and left. It fucking sucks, but I can (somewhat) understand that.

However, she still chose job over family.
And for that alone, I can't trust her not to choose job over complete stranger that MC is to her.
She is a templar through and through, and those waters need to be treaded carefully.

 

[ename144]

Using the word "family" implies it's more than just one other person. When Hilda said Linnae lost her family through the service for the Templars it's obvious it's not meant she just lost her husband by leaving her. She lost her family. Husband and children(s). There was no need for Hilda to be more specific because it doesn't matter in the conversation they had.

Refusing to mention any members of said "family" beyond the husband implies those other members are not significant. When the point of these conversations is to mend fences damaged by the MC's parents keeping him in the dark, somehow neglecting to mention that Linnae not only had a daughter but that she was the MC's friend and coworker, that's just dynamiting a whole new section of fence.

Which, admittedly, would be completely in character for these morons. But I think Alfred's point is that if Elea really is Linnae's abandoned daughter, we really should be able to call them out on yet another deception (both the MC's parents and Linnae herself).

 

[Raziel_8]

I agree, fully. Almost, I don't like her.

And yes, I definitely trust her more than Kaija, but that's not a very high bar.

And while I'm definitely grateful she voted against Kaija entering fake relationship with MC, she is still the person that chose job over family.
Same way MCs family did.

Now, honestly, think I prefer what she did over what MCs parents did.
They just disgust me (Kaija topic), whereas she had a choice between family or work and decided on work.

She left her family, and that's something I would personally never be able to forgive (real life included, that's one of the biggest sins I can think of for a parent, if she turns out to be Elea's mother), but she didn't deceive, lie and ruin her families life so she could tap herself on her back on a job well done.
She took hard decision and left. It fucking sucks, but I can (somewhat) understand that.

However, she still chose job over family.
And for that alone, I can't trust her not to choose job over complete stranger that MC is to her.
She is a templar through and through, and those waters need to be treaded carefully.

We don't how it all played out exactly, only the result.
But she didn't left her family, they, or at least the husband, choosed to leave. If, or who decided to cut the contact completely is not known, but i would guess the husband.
But she doesn't strike me as character who would abandon her couple of months/years old child, or just give it to the husband and never want see it again.

 

[nitkonikic]

We don't how it all played out exactly, only the result.
But she didn't left her family, they, or at least the husband, choosed to leave. If, or who decided to cut the contact completely is not known, but i would guess the husband.
But she doesn't strike me as character who would abandon her couple of months old child, or just give it to the husband and never want see it again.

True, we don't know whole story.

But counterpoint, at some point she had a choice: Family or Templars.
Perhaps it was ultimatum, or huge argument. Whatever the case, Templars won.

Even a situation ala "Your job is too dangerous for me and the child. Quit it, or I am taking our daughter and leaving", I still don't side with her.

And secondly, really? Come oooon, if she wanted to keep an eye on her daughter (again assuming Elea is) and find out where they are, she 100% could have.
She is way too capable and smart not to find them easily. Choice to stay away was hers.
There is no way in hell her husband picked up with her child and she couldn't find them. Just no.

I can understand that choice, just never approve of it.

 

[Raziel_8]

Even a situation ala "Your job is too dangerous for me and the child. Quit it, or I am taking our daughter and leaving", I still don't side with her.

And secondly, really? Come oooon, if she wanted to keep an eye on her daughter (again assuming Elea is) and find out where they are, she 100% could have.
She is way too capable and smart not to find them easily. Choice to stay away was hers.
There is no way in hell her husband picked up with her child and she couldn't find them. Just no.

I'm not siding with either party, i think her choice isn't bad per se, it's the same situation many soldiers are in. It's a dangerous job, if the partner can't accept that than maybe breaking up is better.

Yes she certainly could find them, probably has, maybe even keeping an eye out for her child.
I just find it hard to believe she would just give up her young child and then even going so far as to never speek with said child again...letting the husband take care of the kid and raising it outside of templar influence ok, but at least i would assume she would stay in conntact, even if she keeps her job a secret.
It would make more sense if her kid would be old enough to have a say in the matter and is agreeing with her husband, but that can't be the case if it is really Elea.

 

[Maviarab]

I believe (don't be quoting me on this shizz...I know what you lot are like) that Elea may be meeting her mother sooner rather later. I firmly believe that shit is going to go down in this mysterious underground club she is desperate to go to.

Remember, even if on her romance path (flagged)...if you refuse to go with her, it ends the romance. I think something reallllllyyy baaaaad is going to happen there and I also think a certain someone will be very close by.

 

[nitkonikic]

I'm not siding with either party, i think her choice isn't bad per se, it's the same situation many soldiers are in. It's a dangerous job, if the partner can't accept that than maybe breaking up is better.

Yes she certainly could find them, probably has, maybe even keeping an eye out for her child.
I just find it hard to believe she would just give up her young child and then even going so far as to never speek with said child again...letting the husband take care of the kid and raising it outside of templar influence ok, but at least i would assume she would stay in conntact, even if she keeps her job a secret.
It would make more sense if her kid would be old enough to have a say in the matter and is agreeing with her husband, but that can't be the case if it is really Elea.

Yeah, that's why I'm on the fence if child is Elea:
1. It sounds too easy
2. It would really sour some people (myself included) on Linnae
3. If it's Elea and she kept watch on her from distance, she would definitely know a lot about MC even before they met in Templars HQ

If she just left her husband (or he left her) because of the job? That's fine.
If she abandoned her child (bonus points if that's Elea) and never even bothered to keep an eye on him/her?
That would be inexcusable, and I'd hate her guts.

Lots to be seen and explained about Linnae yet.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Her reply to being asked if she regrets losing family to stay a templar as "sometimes" just shows she is theirs.
If she left her family for Templars, betraying MC for the good of the order would be walk in the park.
.............
Man, do I not trust or like Linnae one bit...

Refusing to mention any members of said "family" beyond the husband implies those other members are not significant. When the point of these conversations is to mend fences damaged by the MC's parents keeping him in the dark, somehow neglecting to mention that Linnae not only had a daughter but that she was the MC's friend and coworker, that's just dynamiting a whole new section of fence.

Which, admittedly, would be completely in character for these morons. But I think Alfred's point is that if Elea really is Linnae's abandoned daughter, we really should be able to call them out on yet another deception (both the MC's parents and Linnae herself).

I'm suspicious of Linnea, on the surface she seems like a good soul, but her devotion to the Templars and her choice to so easily throw away her responsibility to the rest of the council has me questioning her true motives.

I can see why Linnae would not mention her daughter if it was Elea. If Linnae wants her daughter kept out of the Templar world, then she would know exactly where Elea works and who she works with. It's no surprise to me Linnae would not mention Elea to the MC at that stage. She would risk the MC going straight to Elea and spilling the beans.

 

[Maviarab]

I'm suspicious of Linnea, on the surface she seems like a good soul, but her devotion to the Templars and her choice to so easily throw away her responsibility to the rest of the council has me questioning her true motives.

I can see why Linnae would not mention her daughter if it was Elea. If Linnae wants her daughter kept out of the Templar world, then she would know exactly where Elea works and who she works with. It's no surprise to me Linnae would not mention Elea to the MC at that stage. She would risk the MC going straight to Elea and spilling the beans.

Can't like this entire post enough

 

[Raziel_8]

If she abandoned her child (bonus points if that's Elea) and never even bothered to keep an eye on him/her?
That would be inexcusable, and I'd hate her guts.

Fully agree with you there.

I'm suspicious of Linnea, on the surface she seems like a good soul, but her devotion to the Templars and her choice to so easily throw away her responsibility to the rest of the council has me questioning her true motives.

Yeah, she is the most likeable among them, i certainly don't trust her thought, even more so if you on a fuck the templars run.
Someone who abandons their family and children for the sake of the templars would pretty much do anything else for them.

Well to be fair, she took responsibility for her actions (something so very un-templar like) and thinks it's correct, as she would set a really bad example for any other templar, which is kinda true.
Also if you would be on the council with these morons for 2 decades i can understand why she (or anyone) would feel glad to be free of them...

That being said, she would be a really good traitor, one which almost none would suspect, least the father. Thought i'd be curious for her motives, as i don't really see her as someone which would do it out of hate, or would do it forsome far fetched goal.

 

[Tremonia]

I firmly believe that shit is going to go down in this mysterious underground club she is desperate to go to.

My bet is this club is in Neverwhere.

 

[Alfred the Fallen]

Refusing to mention any members of said "family" beyond the husband implies those other members are not significant. When the point of these conversations is to mend fences damaged by the MC's parents keeping him in the dark, somehow neglecting to mention that Linnae not only had a daughter but that she was the MC's friend and coworker, that's just dynamiting a whole new section of fence.

Which, admittedly, would be completely in character for these morons. But I think Alfred's point is that if Elea really is Linnae's abandoned daughter, we really should be able to call them out on yet another deception (both the MC's parents and Linnae herself).

Yeah, the whole thing just feels intentionally deceiving, which isn't something they should be doing in the middle of a trust building exercise. Like... what are they even thinking at this point? Do they think they won't get caught? Again? That they can hide behind a technicality? I'm more confused about the motivations here than anything.

If they are trying to keep Elea safe, they would be watching her. And if they are watching her, they know we are (potentially) in a relationship with her. And they know we fed up with all the lies in our life. So the odds of us spilling the beans to her seem pretty high here, right? And wouldn't that come back to bite them in real big hurry?

The one thing I want most in the next update is a chance to sit down with Linnae and talk with her about our parents decisions. In particular, about how close we were to being killed because we didn't know the dangers around us. So far he's just upset at being lied to on a moral ground sort of argument, where I would like to expand this into a more practical viewpoint.

You ever see that Chernobyl mini-series? Where the one character talks about the cost of lies, and how every lie incurs a debt to the truth, and one day that debt will have to be paid? That's the sort of thing I want to see. Netfilx and chill with Linnae.

I understand that lies are a necessity when part of a secret organization. But you can't go around lying to everyone all the time. There needs to some sort of general rule about the difference between lying to outsiders and lying to those within the organization. How are we supposed to function if we can't believe anyone ever?

 

[ename144]

I'm suspicious of Linnea, on the surface she seems like a good soul, but her devotion to the Templars and her choice to so easily throw away her responsibility to the rest of the council has me questioning her true motives.

I can see why Linnae would not mention her daughter if it was Elea. If Linnae wants her daughter kept out of the Templar world, then she would know exactly where Elea works and who she works with. It's no surprise to me Linnae would not mention Elea to the MC at that stage. She would risk the MC going straight to Elea and spilling the beans.

As opposed to the MC *definitely* going to straight to Elea to spill the beans if he learns the truth from someone other than Linnae?

I'm not saying Linnae might not prefer those odds even so, but it's a very questionable move when all she had to do was just not talk about her family at all. The only reason to give an answer there was to build trust with the MC. Lying by omission is a very high risk/low reward way to go about that.

Fully agree with you there.

Yeah, she is the most likeable among them, i certainly don't trust her thought, even more so if you on a fuck the templars run.
Someone who abandons their family and children for the sake of the templars would pretty much do anything else for them.

Well to be fair, she took responsibility for her actions (something so very un-templar like) and thinks it's correct, as she would set a really bad example for any other templar, which is kinda true.
Also if you would be on the council with these morons for 2 decades i can understand why she (or anyone) would feel glad to be free of them...

That being said, she would be a really good traitor, one which almost none would suspect, least the father. Thought i'd be curious for her motives, as i don't really see her as someone which would do it out of hate, or would do it forsome far fetched goal.

I'm lukewarm on Linnae overall, but I'm skeptical she's the traitor. Her input seems to be the best thing the Templars had going for them when the Grand Master was kidnapped, and there's no obvious reason for her to step unilaterally rather than wait for them to pass judgement on her in their own time (heaven knows how long that might take). If Linnae is a traitor, she must have a much more complicated agenda than just 'destroy Templars.' For example, if it turns out there's a grand conspiracy behind the MC's many 'hunches,' Linnae would be an obvious suspect. But merely trying to provoke a war between the Templars and Alfar? I don't see how that would fit her actions as we currently understand them.

As for her stepping down from the council, I can certainly understand why she'd be glad to be rid of them, but at the same time, it's hard to miss just how close they came to getting the Templars annihilated in less than a week when crisis struck. If Linnae is so devoted to the Templars she'd walk away from her family for them, you'd think she'd be more worried about who would succeed her.

Then again, she has to have considerably more faith in the Templars than I do. Maybe she assumes things will calm down with Robert back and her highly skilled replacement will have time to get up to speed. I certainly wouldn't put my money on it (even before seeing Chapter 5), but I'm not a fanatical Templar.

Yeah, the whole thing just feels intentionally deceiving, which isn't something they should be doing in the middle of a trust building exercise. Like... what are they even thinking at this point? Do they think they won't get caught? Again? That they can hide behind a technicality? I'm more confused about the motivations here than anything.

If they are trying to keep Elea safe, they would be watching her. And if they are watching her, they know we are (potentially) in a relationship with her. And they know we fed up with all the lies in our life. So the odds of us spilling the beans to her seem pretty high here, right? And wouldn't that come back to bite them in real big hurry?

The one thing I want most in the next update is a chance to sit down with Linnae and talk with her about our parents decisions. In particular, about how close we were to being killed because we didn't know the dangers around us. So far he's just upset at being lied to on a moral ground sort of argument, where I would like to expand this into a more practical viewpoint.

You ever see that Chernobyl mini-series? Where the one character talks about the cost of lies, and how every lie incurs a debt to the truth, and one day that debt will have to be paid? That's the sort of thing I want to see. Netfilx and chill with Linnae.

I understand that lies are a necessity when part of a secret organization. But you can't go around lying to everyone all the time. There needs to some sort of general rule about the difference between lying to outsiders and lying to those within the organization. How are we supposed to function if we can't believe anyone ever?

Indeed. To paraphrase The Sting: you can't play your friends like marks. The MC's parents clearly don't grasp that distinction, but I'd like to think Linnae does. I suppose time will tell.

 

[Anon4321]

Was hit with this, thankfully my ESET intervened

 

[xapican]

What hit with this, thankfully my ESET intervened

View attachment 3982636

View attachment 3982637

there were some issues with a infested file distributed here in this thread, the now aviable versions should be safe, when did you download it ?

 

[alanrock]

What hit with this, thankfully my ESET intervened

View attachment 3982636

View attachment 3982637

There is no such thing in my game.
Did you say No to sweet beautiful Kaija, if so your computer will self-destruct.

 

[Anon4321]

there were some issues with a infested file distributed here in this thread, the now aviable versions should be safe, when did you download it ?

I was when v5 first released, I restarted it today and that popped up

 

[Ashira13]

I was when v5 first released, I restarted it today and that popped up

that version was unfortunately infected, although we caught it pretty fast. always check README - Recent Malware infected games | F95zone to be safer.