VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.6.0.2] [Ceolag]

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Wolfram99

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if your Girlfriend helped someone who is your enemy, you confront her and she answers with the oath, It is the same principle.
If a doctor fixes someone up that is my mortal enemy, and the hostilities will not end until either of one of us becomes incapable of continuing the feud. Then having a positive relationship with the doctor is not possible.
 
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Rehwyn

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But at least in my book, she can't have both - could never have had both if she was an honest person. So in effect she chose the templars every single day. I wish we'd gotten a chance to let her make one final choice, in black and white - choose one or the other, but we didn't get that chance so we just had to assume based on her actions.
I get your perspective, but have to disagree. At least on the love path, early on there was less conflict because all she originally accepted was to stick close to you as a friend (which she already was since childhood). If she was for example an NSA analyst, I'd hardly expect her to be sharing state secrets with her friend. Obviously things are a bit different here since the secrets are more immediately relevant and wrapped up with lies rather than just omissions, but the premise is similar.

The romantic feelings developed afterward, and as we discussed earlier it's unlikely the Templars would have accepted reassigning her to a different task if she tried to separate herself from MC and those feelings. If those romantic feelings are genuine and not just following orders, it'd be easy to justify them to herself as separate from the decision to hide the Templars themselves from MC.

As for making a final choice, it wouldn't surprise me if something like that is upcoming now that MC has spent time with the elves and potentially had someone they cared about (as a friend or otherwise) killed by the Templars.
And yet it wasn't really her who uncovered what she is, if not for the attempt on MC's life she would happily follow her oaths until the end of times.
Possibly, but we can't really know for certain. I can see potential other triggers that could have forced a realization, like MC proposing or something. It's all speculative of course.
She wants to sit on two different chairs at once.
The moment she realised that what she is doing is wrong, she should have taken a stance.
She's a big girl, she kills people for a living.
Yes, she did want to keep both going in the status quo as she admits on the love path. The longer the lie went on, the harder it became to come clean because of fear that MC wouldn't forgive her. Obviously that doesn't excuse it, but it's a feeling I can understand.

As for killing people for a living, that's a vastly different skill set then emotional intelligence and relationship communication, heh.
 
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Possibly, but we can't really know for certain. I can see potential other triggers that could have forced a realization, like MC proposing or something. It's all speculative of course.
I feel like a friend that no one listens. :LOL: Came for Kaija's help this time though, we do know. At the beginning of the game, she thinks to herself that she needs to put an end to the the lies and says it can't go like this forever. So, I think it's safe to assume she was about to do something. Though, we can't know what. She might have dump MC for Templars. ;)

If those romantic feelings are genuine and not just following orders, it'd be easy to justify them as separate from the decision to hide the Templars themselves from MC.
Whether or not genuine, as she stated she chose that way because it was easier for her. Best of both worlds, as she stated. So, even if she was feeling something genuine she was there because of her mission.
 
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Rehwyn

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I feel like a friend that no one listens. :LOL: Came for Kaija's help this time though, we do know. At the beginning of the game, she thinks to herself that she needs to put an end to the the lies and says it can go like this forever. So, I think it's safe to assume she was about to do something. Though, we can't know what. She might have dump MC for Templars. ;)
Oh right! Thanks, I had actually forgotten about that early line. It's been a while since I've played the beginning parts of the game.

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Whether or not genuine, as she stated she chose that way because it was easier for her. Best of both worlds, as she stated. So, even if she was feeling something genuine she was there because of her mission.
True, but people can choose to do something for multiple reasons. For example, let's hypothetically say she was assigned to a mission in a foreign country for 3 years and she comes to love the people, culture, and location. Yes, the original reason she was there was the mission, but after 3 years perhaps she wants to stay for other reasons.

That's essentially how I see her assignment with MC. On her love path, she initially is there because he's a friend and because of her mission, but later on perhaps the relationship and her affection for MC is actually the biggest reason she'd want to stay, even if it's still her mission too.
 
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Wolfram99

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I feel like a friend that no one listens. :LOL: Came for Kaija's help this time though, we do know. At the beginning of the game, she thinks to herself that she needs to put an end to the the lies and says it can go like this forever. So, I think it's safe to assume she was about to do something. Though, we can't know what. She might have dump MC for Templars. ;)
We dont know if she would actually reveal that the start of the relationship was fake, just telling that she is a member of a secret organization would lift 99% of her internal conflict and be an easy way out.
 
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We dont know if she would actually reveal that the start of the relationship was fake, just telling that she is a member of a secret organization would lift 99% of her internal conflict and be an easy way out.
But she can't stay at there when she mentions that. It basically downhill from there and one way or another would end up like the talk in the game. Though, we do not know which path she would choose. She might have decided, a personal life is not a thing for Templars and break up with MC then ask reassignment. After all, her mentor Linnae chose that path. All in all, any action would have been better for her. If she chose break up with MC early on, then when shit hit the fan came to save MC i.e. after Paul's death, then explained everything. So basically almost same as love path but broke up with MC before the events, I'd probably go for forgive, forget, reconcile path and even would be okay with a relationship if she wants it.
 
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Wolfram99

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But she can't stay at there when she mentions that. It basically downhill from there and one way or another would end up like the talk in the game. Though, we do not know which path she would choose. She might have decided, a personal life is not a thing for Templars and break up with MC then ask reassignment. After all, her mentor Linnae chose that path. All in all, any action would have been better for her. If she chose break up with MC early on, then when shit hit the fan came to save MC i.e. after Paul's death, then explained everything. So basically almost same as love path but broke up with MC before the events, I'd probably go for forgive, forget, reconcile path and even would be okay with a relationship if she wants it.
Any action would have been better than inaction, and thats why she is disliked so heavily by me.
Steph from LoF atleast had the decency to fuck off by herself.
 
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True, but people can choose to do something for multiple reasons. For example, let's hypothetically say she was assigned to a mission in a foreign country for 3 years and she comes to love the people, culture, and location. Yes, the original reason she was there was the mission, but after 3 years perhaps she wants to stay for other reasons.

That's essentially how I see her assignment with MC. On her love path, she initially is there because he's a friend and because of her mission, but later on perhaps the relationship and her affection for MC is actually the biggest reason she'd want to stay, even if it's still her mission too.
Make sense. Let's go with the analogy, that assignment should be under false pretenses because that country should not know why she is there, like MC does not know why she is there. That would make her a spy. So, even if she started to like the country when her cover blows up, she would end up in a prison for espionage or at least would be declared persona-non-grata and get the boot. Especially if that cover blows up in a shitshow that endangers the country and its people like it happened in the game, she might get shot without explaining her reasons.
 

Rehwyn

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It is assumed, but that is a plot turn, and till next few chapters there is no evidence they did.
Fair point. I'm also off the opinion it was orchestrated by a third-party, but it still might force the issue with Kaija.
 
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Btw, at the beginning of the game it says there will never be incest and harem, as logic dictates one of them, incest or harem, is indeed possible. So, can we say we will soon have Jessica path? :unsure:
 

Rehwyn

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Make sense. Let's go with the analogy, that assignment should be under false pretenses because that country should not know why she is there, like MC does not know why she is there. That would make her a spy. So, even if she started to like the country when her cover blows up, she would end up in a prison for espionage or at least would be declared persona-non-grata and get the boot. Especially if that cover blows up in a shitshow that endangers the country and its people like it happened in the game, she might get shot without explaining her reasons.
I didn't mean a hostile county. Ultimately Kaija's mission is trying to protect MC, not hurt him. I'm sure operatives work in allied countries without local civilians knowing about them, even if the allied government does know. If things blow up while they're following their orders, I'd frankly be more likely to blame the people making the orders. So honestly, I blame the Templars and MC's parents for the shitshow more than I blame Kaija.
 

xapican

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Fair point. I'm also off the opinion it was orchestrated by a third-party, but it still might force the issue with Kaija.
It is possible that Kaija, is even the Killer of Fin, how I said before one of my theories as why Kaija is so engaged with the Templars is because of personal Vendetta, (Linae states, that she never saw a reclruit train with that passion like Kaija trains hinting about emotional implications behind her motivation)
 

xapican

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Btw, at the beginning of the game it says there will never be incest and harem, as logic dictates one of them, incest or harem, is indeed possible. So, can we say we will soon have Jessica path? :unsure:
Nope, i guess not, nor you can have Multiple girls at once, that would go against all principles from the Templars, don't forget he was raised by Great grandmaster and one of their high ranked warriors,
 

Wolfram99

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It is known by MC from the beginning that her line of work is with a secret org.
classified gig with a known organization assumes different things.
But in actuality she is an operative to an organization that is not beholden to any laws, and she is a skilled killer who executes without any trial, just by being a nuisance to templars you may see the open end of a barrel.
 
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I didn't mean a hostile county. Ultimately Kaija's mission is trying to help MC, not hurt them. I'm sure operatives work in allied countries without local civilians knowing about them, even if the allied government does know. If things blow up while they're following their orders, I'd frankly be more likely to blame the people making the orders. So honestly, I blame the Templars and MC's parents for the shitshow more than I blame Kaija.
For the analogy work, the country should not know why is their spy there because MC does not know. Also, MC is more like a neutral country, even if they are under same sphere of influence. There is no way, neither a neutral nor ally country would accept an operator works in their country without their knowledge. If they get discovered, they will be arrested. Whatever happens next is entirely politics and power play, that operator can be bargaining chip, if they are from much stronger country would be silently extradite etc. but there is no way, they got scot free such a situation. On top of that, add the explosions, guns, dead bodies etc. She is fucked regardless of she is in hostile country or an ally.
 
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It is possible that Kaija, is even the Killer of Fin, how I said before one of my theories as why Kaija is so engaged with the Templars is because of personal Vendetta, (Linae states, that she never saw a reclruit train with that passion like Kaija trains hinting about emotional implications behind her motivation)
Grandpa issues I assume.

Nope, i guess not, nor you can have Multiple girls at once, that would go against all principles from the Templars, don't forget he was raised by Great grandmaster and one of their high ranked warriors,
As his father says, anything goes. Cheat, bite, kick as long as you win, nothing matters.

No, it means there will be neither. It's just a little grammatical faux pa.
A shame really. You'd say no harem either if it's just a faux pa.
 

TrixRabbit

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I basically dumped the Templars, I burned the bridges with MC's parents, took every opportunity presented to piss off and disrespect the others - and the organization in general - I dumped Kaija (who I saw as part of the same big lie that made me dump my parents) - I stayed on good terms with Linnae - mainly because she opposed the Kaija thing from the start and because you can disrespect the Templars and stay on her good side, also on good terms with Kari (who seems to work with the Templars but not really be one - and is a f'in Valkerie) and very good terms with Medb. Basically, I am anti-templar at this point. I wasn't impressed with them in any way - not their HQ, not their organization, not their plans or their people. I won't have anything to do with the organization (unless I'm working for Medb at the time) but I'll still talk with Linnae and Kari (as long as it's outside of HQ) and Rebecca of course. The others ... I'm really not sure what the point would be of dragging the office ladies or the bartender into all of this.
 
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