VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.6.0.2] [Ceolag]

[xapican]

With the dwindling Templar numbers i could see the parents making a decision that the kids should be left to live in a world without magic, a world that they are trying to preserve.
You are saying he is not their son due to wanting Jess to be a side LI so patreon wouldn't interfere? not that sneaky of you.
Since Mab referred to Jess as a waste of potential it seems that she carries the "gene" that makes MC whatever he is, maybe it just hasn't activated yet like it did with MC.

Do we know if the grandfather of MC was also a head templar? Or is it just the Dad that was the head honcho of templars in his bloodline?

His father (MC's Grandpa) was also a Greatmaster, he died during the War with Neverwhere crime cartels, it is briefly explained in the convo MC has with his Dad after the rescue.

 

[Rehwyn]

Well, the point is that MC is more than human, he cannot be the son of Roland and Helga, at least not both. Multi generational templars would not simply break the tradition of having sucessors in their next generation only because it could be dangerous, after all, they are aware of the risks and could mitigate them by training and by raising them in their headquarters under full vigilance. There is much more than meets the eye here and the talk with his "parents" only adds a layer of plausible deniabilty to hide the real truth about his nature, origin and capabilities.

Why must they not be his parents? The fantasy trope of old magical bloodlines emerging from otherwise mundane parents is quite common. You're making several assumptions here to come to that conclusion since 1) we don't know if he's not human or just a human with special abilities, 2) if he is not fully human, we don't know if that's directly hereditary, 3) if it is hereditary, we don't know if it's due to "latent genes" or something or a non-human parent, and lastly 4) if it is due to a non-human parent, we don't know for sure both Roland and Helga are fully human either.

 

[Knightcvel]

With the dwindling Templar numbers i could see the parents making a decision that the kids should be left to live in a world without magic, a world that they are trying to preserve.
You are saying he is not their son due to wanting Jess to be a side LI so patreon wouldn't interfere? not that sneaky of you.
Since Mab referred to Jess as a waste of potential it seems that she carries the "gene" that makes MC whatever he is, maybe it just hasn't activated yet like it did with MC.

Do we know if the grandfather of MC was also a head templar? Or is it just the Dad that was the head honcho of templars in his bloodline?

It could be interesting having Jess as a LI but I think she is really daughter of Roland and Hilda. The wasted potential maybe a prosaic thing as the potential of becoming like Kaija and no more. Note that the same was not uttered after she scanned MC. And the dwindling of templar numbers would be enough reason to have them introduced in their childhood and not the oposite. The grandparents were templars that were killed in action by narco lords from Neverwhere. They raised Roland in the order. As it is revealed by Kaija when she toured MC in their Headquarters, the council and the headmaster are ellected offices and all noble templars may vote or being voted.

 

[Knightcvel]

Why must they not be his parents? The fantasy trope of old magical bloodlines emerging from otherwise mundane parents is quite common. You're making several assumptions here to come to that conclusion since 1) we don't know if he's not human or just a human with special abilities, 2) if he is not fully human, we don't know if that's directly hereditary, 3) if it is hereditary, we don't know if it's due to "latent genes" or something or a non-human parent, and lastly 4) if it is due to a non-human parent, we don't know for sure both Roland and Helga are fully human either.

The attitudes of several creatures and organizations around him seem to suggest he is beyond trivial. He is treated as an important asset and put under vigilance by others who are not his parents and would have no reason for that. He could be an experiment, he could be a child from supernatural beings or at least half human. His storyline and future character development is implied to involve nordic deities and other beings that would not give further attention to a tiny mortal. I think that in the next chapter he will deal with powers and beings beyond human grasp. His true nature, and his potential brought attention upon him from people, beings and organizations. The templars wanted to keep him under their control.

 

[motseer]

When the next update comes out, I think I will start from the beginning. Not because I can't remember what happened, but just to reject everybody, again...

 

[AlexMpog]

I finally got to play last update on weekends and I actually started from the beginning heh, because... why not?))) I enjoyed it.

Also, thanks again for your WT Maviarab, makes things so much easier!

 

[Wolfram99]

And the dwindling of templar numbers would be enough reason to have them introduced in their childhood and not the oposite

If they wanted to create templar cannon fodder, sure.
Linnae chose the duty, while MC's parents managed to balance on both sides.

 

[Malicre]

If they wanted to create templar cannon fodder, sure.
Linnae chose the duty, while MC's parents managed to balance on both sides.

Cause Linnae was actually smart and realized that you couldn't do both half heartedly so she made a choice where as his parents lied about everything. Linnae i can respect, them not so much and yes Kaija is on my shit list too as she's not any better.

 

[Rehwyn]

The attitudes of several creatures and organizations around him seem to suggest he is beyond trivial. He is treated as an important asset and put under vigilance by others who are not his parents and would have no reason for that. He could be an experiment, he could be a child from supernatural beings or at least half human. His storyline and future character development is implied to involve nordic deities and other beings that would not give further attention to a tiny mortal. I think that in the next chapter he will deal with powers and beings beyond human grasp. His true nature, and his potential brought attention upon him from people, beings and organizations. The templars wanted to keep him under their control.

I'm definitely not arguing that there isn't something unusual about him. But your statement that one or both his parents cannot be his actual parents is an assumption, not something established by evidence. Same with the supposition that the Templars wanted to keep him under control.

Are these things possible? Sure. But until there's more evidence available we cannot objectively conclude that they are true.

 

[Maviarab]

I finally got to play last update on weekends and I actually started from the beginning heh, because... why not?))) I enjoyed it.

Also, thanks again for your WT Maviarab, makes things so much easier!

Happy to know it helped and you liked it. Rest assured, I'll be continuing it going forward (as long as Ceo would like me to), I know he had considered briefly the possibility of an in-game one but whether or not that actually happens is another matter, with any luck I'll be able to grab a copy of the next early so can get it done ready for release. I'll speak to him nearer the time about it, whenever that is heh.

 

[Knightcvel]

If they wanted to create templar cannon fodder, sure.
Linnae chose the duty, while MC's parents managed to balance on both sides.

Not the balance. Roland is the headmaster and the one who is by obligation worried about the future of the order. Since they keep their numbers thanks to their descendents, and Roland refuses the advise of Linnae of recruiting among the populace, it doesn't make sense he refusing to introduce his son and daughter as his and his wife natural substitutes once they are gone. It only breaks the tradition that we know he strives to preserve, but also jeopardizes the future of the order. Remember they are prone to make lots of sacrifices for the good of their order. The only rational reason is that MC is a special case that demands special attention and special treatment.

 

[Wolfram99]

Cause Linnae was actually smart and realized that you couldn't do both half heartedly so she made a choice where as his parents lied about everything. Linnae i can respect, them not so much and yes Kaija is on my shit list too as she's not any better.

So a parent that peaces out and abandons the kid(s) to live their own life is respectable?

it doesn't make sense he refusing to introduce his son and daughter as his and his wife natural substitutes once they are gone.

A lot of world leaders in dodgy areas/circumstances send out their kids as far away from their immediate sphere of influence as possible.
Neverwhere is connected all around the world, there is no realistic safe area where you can be sure that otherworldly bullshit won't catch you, so the next best thing is to keep kids close and try to maintain a safe space for them.

 

[Knightcvel]

Cause Linnae was actually smart and realized that you couldn't do both half heartedly so she made a choice where as his parents lied about everything. Linnae i can respect, them not so much and yes Kaija is on my shit list too as she's not any better.

I hate all templars but I think the only one I could just a little bit
sympathize is Linnae. Depending of the path you choose, she is the only one against putting Kaija in a relationship with MC to keep an eye on him, offered to train him with swords, gifted him with a scabbard, and became deeply sad and depressed when MC refused to talk to her when she asked to drink with him in the bar. She also sacrificed her position just to make sure MC was introduced to Neverwhere instead of being left out as he ever was. It would not be enough to spare her if I was presented wiht an oportunity to bring hell against the templars, tough. It only means that she seems to be the least nocive among them.

 

[xapican]

Rehwyn ; It is hinted somewhere; in the beginning of this thread, that MC's family name has a hint to his Linage;
The name Callister happens to be a form of MC Allister being this one of the first Clans from Scottland / Ireland (they branched out there around 1100
One of the first Great-grandmasters of Knight Templars in England had this name *
In the middle ages there were mystical roots asigned to the origins of the Clan / Family , guess that Ceo took inspiration on this
Edit: * not a trust worthy source where I got this info.

 

[Pixillin']

I hate all templars but I think the only one I could just a little bit
sympathize is Linnae. Depending of the path you choose, she is the only one against putting Kaija in a relationship with MC to keep an eye on him, offered to train him with swords, gifted him with a scabbard, and became deeply sad and depressed when MC refused to talk to her when she asked to drink with him in the bar. She also sacrificed her position just to make sure MC was introduced to Neverwhere instead of being left out as he ever was. It would not be enough to spare her if I was presented wiht an oportunity to bring hell against the templars, tough. It only means that she seems to be the least nocive among them.

Linnae is definitely the best of them, I don't know if that's worth much because the rest are awful, but whether or not I'd spare her (if given the opportunity to take them all out) depends in part on whether she had any role at all in Finn's death.

 

[RNasc4444]

So a parent that peaces out and abandons the kid(s) to live their own life is respectable?

In this context? Fuck yes! Without a shadow of a doubt. If you are the grandaddymaster of the dorks and wife, you pretty much have the biggest target on your back possible. Linnae understood the risks. You either abandon your family or you retire completely from the order.

The parents pretty much made the worst decisions possible, every step of the way. Not only did they hide the truth, they lied about it, they put targets on their kids backs and never trusted them enough to tell them. Not when they were old enough to drive a car, not when they became legal adults, not when their elder son graduated college, not when he was old enough to drink and not even when he was a grown fucking man with a full time job. Yet somehow that despicable deception still pales in comparison to what that treacherous lying whore Kaija did to the guy.

I don't even like Linnae but I respect the fact that she at least had the decency to abandon her family in order to keep them safe.

 

[Pixillin']

I don't even like Linnae but I respect the fact that she at least had the decency to abandon her family in order to keep them safe.

I don’t like Linnae. I might, if we got the opportunity to slaughter all of the templars, spare her - maybe - depending.

 

[Wolfram99]

The parents pretty much made the worst decisions possible, every step of the way. Not only did they hide the truth, they lied about it, they put targets on their kids backs and never trusted them enough to tell them. Not when they were old enough to drive a car, not when they became legal adults, not when their elder son graduated college, not when he was old enough to drink and not even when he was a grown fucking man with a full time job

What would the kids could have done if they knew that they have a massive target painted on their backs?
So making the kids Templars from the early age is the only way to protect them?

I don't even like Linnae but I respect the fact that she at least had the decency to abandon her family in order to keep them safe.

An honorable choice for her duty as a templar but a dishonorable one for a mother. However you look at it it's a shitty choice.

One thing i recognize that is "good" in both Linnae and Callisters, is that they chose not to force their kids to become templars, as it seems is the case with general Templar population.

 

[RNasc4444]

What would the kids could have done if they knew that they have a massive target painted on their backs?
So making the kids Templars from the early age is the only way to protect them?

An honorable choice for her duty as a templar but a dishonorable one for a mother. However you look at it it's a shitty choice.

One thing i recognize that is "good" in both Linnae and Callisters, is that they chose not to force their kids to become templars, as it seems is the case with general Templar population.

Do you behave the same while you walk a dark alley at night as you would walking through a busy market street in broad daylight? You don't. Neither of us do unless we're hopelessly aloof. When we perceive danger we adapt accordingly. I'd rather know there is a chance I'm a target at all times, gives me a fighting chance. I'm not saying they should have made the kids templars but hell they were already training them from a young age. Why not instill in them the notion that they may not always be safe?

Agreed on Linnae. It's an incredibly shitty choice. And I'm not even saying she made the right one either. Just that I respect that she had the strenght to make it. She'd have my respect if she had left the order for her family too. Had she made the one the MC's parents did...that's another story.

Also agree on the last point. Forcing them into the order of the dorks would be an awful thing to do. But if they are already involved, and their lives may already be at stake, then at least give them a choice. Linnae chose not to involve them. Alexander's parents chose to involve them while keeping them in the dark about it. That's what I can't forgive.

 

[Knightcvel]

An honorable choice for her duty as a templar but a dishonorable one for a mother. However you look at it it's a shitty choice.

One thing i recognize that is "good" in both Linnae and Callisters, is that they chose not to force their kids to become templars, as it seems is the case with general Templar population.

In the case of Linnae, she was open all the time, and they decided that they won't no bussiness with the Templars, a situation entirely different as they knew everything, there was no secrecy among them. The Callisters kids didn't have any choice. Their lives were decided for them. If not for the secrecy they could have been raised inside the Castle and learned the basics for dealing with adversities. But having being raised in ignorance, they lived in a world that could have harmed them at any moment. They were lucky it took so much time because eventually it did happen.