VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.6.0.2] [Ceolag]

[Pixillin']

Did the order really kill Finn though? Medb says so, but she also initially thought the humans set the Infernal on her when she was in the human town in Neverwhere.

There's very strong implications throughout the story of an unknown 3rd party trying to start a war between the Templars and Alfar. So it's very possible it was not the templars, but another provocation.

I think I already answered this in another post which I hope you've seen by now.

As for the bit about the Templars being a secret order - that's another thing I'm against. I think humanity would be better protected if they were out in the open - and if people don't believe it, or there's some shady organization preventing them from going public, just stand down for 6 months and let the denizens of neverwhere run rampant in the human world, then step back up and ask for recruits.

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

That's perfectly fair. I'm not claiming moral high ground here. It's up to each of us to judge the situation according to our own perspective. I understand the argument the parents/Kaija made. I even believe that they wanted to protect Alex and Jess at first. But then they became adults and the truth never surfaced. At a certain point, the lie became too big, the conversation too hard and then they were doing it to protect themselves, not the MC.

I honestly believe that not telling the kids put them are a far greater danger. The Templars couldn't be expected to watch over them 24/7. Being in the dark makes you more vulnerable to a possible threat. And starting a relationship with the MC...Kaija HAD to know how bad the optics were. So she willingly went ahead of the deception, not for the MC's sake but for her own and the Templars.

Agree with this. The whole "protect kids from danger" argument doesn't work when they are unaware of the danger. In fact if Dad has training to defend himself from extraplaner threats, kids need that too. Unless you have the power to end all instances of the threats to them, which the parents know they can't, not telling them puts them in danger.

Unless you can get rid of all hot surfaces you need to tell your kids to not burn themselves.
Unless you can get rid of all high places you need to tell them to watch their step
Unless you can get rid of all kidnappers/abusers (we are here in the story) you need to tell them to watch their backs.

As for Kaija, if she has enough love points she sees it as being a superhero with a secret identity to protect loved ones and is conflicted and really bothered.
If not enough love points, she's not as bothered. "Yeah lying to my best friend is bad , but The Order comes first. Blah blah silent protectors, dark knights blah blah."

 

[RNasc4444]

I think Kaija on the friend path summed it up the best. It was easier. Since the kids were born, they were hidden from that world. After 18+ years of their lives it was just easier to not rock the proverbial boat. The kids were safe, insulated, and there were no issues. Until they weren't. Was it right? I guess that depends on how serious they take their secret order oaths. Would they be better to break their oaths that started before they even had kids? I'm not trying to say you are wrong, but just trying to look at different angles and perspectives.

But were they safe? We have seen that now that the Hellspawn are showing up again they can come into the human world with ease as evidenced by the Succubus. What's to stop a rogue Elf with a vendetta from coming and targetting the children of the Grandmaster Dork? Not to mention whatever 3rd party is behind the instigating of the war between humans and elves. Assuming they were always safe and insulated is a bit of a leap. At some point the issue of their safety may be a little more important than the secrecy of their order.

The order seemed more concerned with protecting the MC than Jess. That was why Kaija was assigned to protect him. If they fell in love, even better as they'd be around each other more. Until the nuances of her regularly leaving to go on missions comes up... but we'll just pretend that anomaly doesn't exist. They don't seem (that we know of) to have been as interested in protecting Jess as we don't know about a bodyguard for her yet.

A relationship is based on trust. How is the MC supposed to go on without wondering every single day if there is a chance he's nothing but a job to Kaija? She spent years lying. Why would she be telling the truth now? How in the hell can he trust her knowing that? How can he trust anything the Templars tell him?

Also ask yourself, if his Dad hadn't been grabbed while going to that secret meeting, would the MC know the truth? Would he ever find out? Would he spend the rest of his life completely unaware that he doesn't know the people closest to him at all?

 

[Pixillin']

Agree with this. The whole "protect kids from danger" argument doesn't work when they are unaware of the danger. In fact if Dad has training to defend himself from extraplaner threats, kids need that too. Unless you have the power to end all instances of the threats to them, which the parents know they can't, not telling them puts them in danger.

Unless you can get rid of all hot surfaces you need to tell your kids to not burn themselves.
Unless you can get rid of all high places you need to tell them to watch their step
Unless you can get rid of all kidnappers/abusers (we are here in the story) you need to tell them to watch their backs.

As for Kaija, if she has enough love points she sees it as being a superhero with a secret identity to protect loved ones and is conflicted and really bothered.
If not enough love points, she's not as bothered. "Yeah lying to my best friend is bad , but The Order comes first. Blah blah silent protectors, dark knights blah blah."

Again, it might just be how it was written (a plot hole) but I doubt that protection was the intent for a few reason

1) What you already said about not actually being able to protect MC

2) Kajia's constant absence - if she was there to protect him she should have been around more. When MC was offered a promotion and couldn't even get a text message from her it told me that their relationship was shit, even before I found out about everything but what if that text message had said

"Guess what? Met some people cosplaying as elves in the lobby. I invited them up for tea and later we're going to a party at their place. Fun, right?"

So I don't actually think that Kajia was there to protect MC at all - she was staying close enough to keep an eye on him for a different reason (don't know what).

3) The whole thing with MC having magical powers that suddenly martialized suggests to me that they're still not telling the truth - at best they're omitting some important stuff and at worst they're not even his parents.

 

[Maviarab]

Also ask yourself, if his Dad hadn't been grabbed while going to that secret meeting, would the MC know the truth? Would he ever find out? Would he spend the rest of his life completely unaware that he doesn't know the people closest to him at all?

I don't really comment on these subjects anymore. People know my thoughts and I said them all months ago. Repeating them ad-infinitum is just...

However on that quote, I have said previously (touching upon your own comment), say mom still rang up...say we get in the car....and then nothing happens...we get driven home and nothing happens on the way...

How up front would mommy dearest have been then exactly? There would be no Kaija there....

 

[The_Man_With_No_Name]

Again, it might just be how it was written (a plot hole) but I doubt that protection was the intent for a few reason

1) What you already said about not actually being able to protect MC

2) Kajia's constant absence - if she was there to protect him she should have been around more. When MC was offered a promotion and couldn't even get a text message from her it told me that their relationship was shit, even before I found out about everything but what if that text message had said

"Guess what? Met some people cosplaying as elves in the lobby. I invited them up for tea and later we're going to a party at their place. Fun, right?"

So I don't actually think that Kajia was there to protect MC at all - she was staying close enough to keep an eye on him for a different reason (don't know what).

3) The whole thing with MC having magical powers that suddenly martialized suggests to me that they're still not telling the truth - at best they're omitting some important stuff and at worst they're not even his parents.

Maybe.
We'll see in time who knew what and when. Might be a lot of double blind actions.
Like I said , the story is ultimately a sick game of battleship/"fog of war" with all sides keeping secrets and acting how they think they should with limited info (because secrets) thus creating more problems, with other forces taking advantage.

"Play stupid games..."

 

[Knightcvel]

Me not disliking the Templars is simply because I don't believe they are evil nor do I think they are good.

I think they are evil because I suspect they work for the Neverwhere mafia. They let crime run wild there and no outlaws need fear them. They only persecute Elves who come close to human settlements and some supernatural threats that cross over into the real world, but they receive financial and technological support from the corporations that exploit that other world. They are a paramilitary militia that under the pretext of being the shield of humanity are in fact agents of greedy corporations.

 

[motseer]

Honestly there is only one thread where I feel like this - Race of Life.

Just like in this thread it got better lately, much better, but during Rush Hours people just constantly antagonize V and keep shit posting about it, sometimes kind of make feel miserable because I'm in minority there. And I also used to take breaks from that thread hahah

Speaking about Kaija - I tolerate her, she is not evil or saint in my opinion, just a person to me, so I never really hated nor liked her.

Nope. I'm with you on V! That makes us a majority of 2!!!

 

[Dr.TSoni]

Nope. I'm with you on V! That makes us a majority of 2!!!

 

[motseer]

View attachment 4643194

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

So add KIM from Yesterday Crossroads. The situation is like Kaija and Steph on steroids.

I haven't played that VN. I'll keep an eye for it.

 

[minibaer12]

I'd like to pose a question to everyone here, which also plays a role in "Burning Bridges":

How trustworthy is Jessica? Her decision to stay with her parents despite everything has seriously undermined my trust in her, and I'm confident her parents are capable of anything! To make matters worse, Jessica doesn't entirely agree with our MC's decision to turn his back on his parents.

The next few dialogues with her will reveal where the dev positions Jessica.

 

[Pixillin']

I'd like to pose a question to everyone here, which also plays a role in "Burning Bridges":

How trustworthy is Jessica? Her decision to stay with her parents despite everything has seriously undermined my trust in her, and I'm confident her parents are capable of anything! To make matters worse, Jessica doesn't entirely agree with our MC's decision to turn his back on his parents.

The next few dialogues with her will reveal where the dev positions Jessica.

I have no reason to doubt Jessica. She’s younger than MC, she’s more sentimental and she still lives at home - plus the parents didn’t also set her up with a boyfriend and a job so they could keep an eye on her so she doesn’t have as much to be mad about. She just really loves her parents and MC and isn’t ready to let any of them go - at least not yet. I’m not writing this story, so I can’t say definitely and for sure, but she’s currently the only one I fully trust and I haven’t seen or heard anything that would make me doubt her. I’ll be really sad if she ever decides to join the Templars though - because that would basically be the end of our relationship. I’d still care about her but I wouldn’t see her very often and would let her know that I absolutely hate the organization she’s in and want to destroy it - so that might put a damper on our relationship.

 

[PaxHadrian17]

I'd like to pose a question to everyone here, which also plays a role in "Burning Bridges":

How trustworthy is Jessica? Her decision to stay with her parents despite everything has seriously undermined my trust in her, and I'm confident her parents are capable of anything! To make matters worse, Jessica doesn't entirely agree with our MC's decision to turn his back on his parents.

The next few dialogues with her will reveal where the dev positions Jessica.

IMO, Jessica feels like she is caught in the middle between her parent's choices to keep she and her brother in the dark (among other things) and her love for her brother who she seems to look up to.

She takes the news of Kaija's betrayal hard and questions whether Kaija was ever her friend or if that was also a role.

I don't recall any discussions about Jessica having one or more serious relationships prior to the attempted kidnapping of her brother and the events that followed. Because of this, I think she can empathize with her brother's sense of betrayal, but it does not come close to hitting her the way it does him.

I think Jessica is hoping that she can be at least a communication link between her parents and her brother, giving him a way back if he chooses to burn bridges.

She does not want to accept that the family she knew is truly dead and that there are now two sides, forever divided.

At this point in time (in the burning bridges option), I think Jessica is trying to please two 'masters' and she is likely to fail unless she becomes 'Switzerland' - engaging with both 'sides' and siding with neither.

Would the MC test Jessica to see if she will keep his confidences? Maybe...

If he does and she realizes that he is testing her loyalty - that could also backfire on him - leaving her feeling betrayed by him.

For example, what if the test is too harsh and she thinks he might be badly injured or die if she does not tell someone so he can be 'saved' from his bad choice. Jessica is left with choosing to have her live brother mad at her versus her inaction resulting in her brother's serious injury or death (from her POV - this is not a test, just her emotionally distraught brother making a huge bad choice). I think this test, if Jessica realized it as such, would actually push her away from him, damaging her trust in him and further damaging her trust in her entire family.

We need more story and the initial aftermath of the 'burning bridges' choice to begin to see what impact this choice has on the MC.

I doubt one more update will give us enough information to see the ripples from this choice - I'm guessing it will take 2-3 more updates to begin to see any real divergence in the two different paths (burn/don't burn bridges) and how Jessica's behavior varies.

Cheers!!

 

[Wolfram99]

I see someone is trying to make Jessica into a bad guy.
Kaija is fair game, but don't touch Jessica!

 

[Maviarab]

I'd like to pose a question to everyone here, which also plays a role in "Burning Bridges":

How trustworthy is Jessica? Her decision to stay with her parents despite everything has seriously undermined my trust in her, and I'm confident her parents are capable of anything! To make matters worse, Jessica doesn't entirely agree with our MC's decision to turn his back on his parents.

The next few dialogues with her will reveal where the dev positions Jessica.

She's younger than you and lives at 'home' because she a student....what exactly do you expect her to do?

She also isn't stupid enough to just 'burn her own bridges' when nothing has actually happened to her...like, you know...almost being killed by mercs.

Maybe she can move into the MC's apartment and wander around in her panties to piss off all the people who want her as a LI?

C'mon...it's not difficult. Yes, she is trustworthy.

 

[RNasc4444]

Maybe she can move into the MC's apartment and wander around in her panties

Edit: And Nimue please!!!! She could just wander around naked. It's definitely warmer than that lake. My MC will take good care of her. Trust me

 

[Knightcvel]

Jessica is thrilled. She wants to live in a magical world of adventure and excitement. She asks her mother to train her in sword fighting and wants to travel to another country to study martial arts, which her mother agrees to. Jessica loves the equipment like the armor and is excited to have one of the cars. She will be a full-fledged Templar, without a doubt.

 

[DevinHesi]

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Hey everyone,

same as last week, the numbers at the start of the post:
32 new static renders for a total of 2039
13 new animations for a total of 76
90 new lines in the script file for a total of 5857

Other than that, there are no real news regarding my situation.
For every step forward, we take 2 steps back it seems. My mother got another infection earlier this week, so the situation is mostly the same as in the past 3 weeks.
With the difference, that the docs now say they did everything they could and she either pulls through now or not.
So every day is kinda the same where we hope for some good news and are happy if there's at least no additional bad news.

I'm sorry that there's no good news here and that it's still dragging on but on the other hand, nothing I can really do about it.

Have a nice weekend, guys.

Cheers,
Ceo

 

[Penfold Mole]

Edit: And Nimue please!!!! She could just wander around naked. It's definitely warmer than that lake. My MC will take good care of her. Trust me

They didn't have a pool, I think, right? So she'll be living in the bath tub, make her portal in there.

The kitchen sink probably won't do, it might be a little tight around the buttocks.