VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.6.0.2] [Ceolag]

[Ceolag]

Morning, everyone

soooo

the mc gets attacked , nearly kidnapped
his gf is fake , she and his mother lied to him for god knows how long
(so for sure the dad too)
he gets to know there are templars , demons, elves and whatnot
aaaand his reaction : "cool story bro , i have to go to work" ?¿
.... yeah, totally believable

Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing, just trying to explain because I failed to do so ingame, obviously.
We all deal with unexpected situations differently. Some go into full confrontation, some just accept, some deny, and some desperately try to stick to their "normal" life. Often enough it doesn't matter what exactly the new situation is. It can be the loss of a loved one. Some cry for weeks and some seem to shrug it off without any emotion.

In our case, MC tries to stick to his normal routines in a world that isn't normal anymore.
Of course, it means I failed to explain his motivations better. At least for you.

Also, you're the first who mentioned the Flashdance reference, congrats
The first part is actually pretty close to the sequence in the movie (at least I think so...).

Ok, I still love it.

Now just to find a way to do some broken playthrough again (crazy mix of choices that don't make any sense).

Spoiler

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Overall, great update and definitely worth the wait...
Now...how many thousands of choice combinations are there? Hmmm, must be at least one I didn't try yet...

EDIT: Set everything under the spoiler tag, but don't think I really spoiled any game bits. Still, there it is, and warning it describes some events in chapter 3.

Uh-Oh. For guys like you, I spent several evenings on Fiona's (and Elea's) scene. I seriously hope I found all "weird" combinations.
Especially Fiona was a headache in that regard.

I'm really happy the Fiona scene works (at least for you). It's one of the things I was worried about before the release. Will it work for the players or does it feel too forced?

Thanks for your feedback.

As mentioned before, Helena is a side girl. But what that means in terms of like game endings? can you end the game with the side girls? or the endings are only designed for main LI's?
sorry if already answered, I couldn't find anything.

Right now no endings for any side girl planned.

Is the best option here taking a step back with Kaija? That way it doesnt seem like im cheating on her for the time being? Looking for opinions on it cus shes def the main LI i want to eventually end up with but would like to play the field for a bit(BUT i dont want to miss any of her H-scenes).

That's exactly why there's that option. To let you keep all options. You won't miss any of her content if you chose the step back (as long as your points with her are high enough). At some point (in a future chapter) you'll need to make a decision, tho.
That's true for all LI's.

I'm getting the feeling that Órla is not just a "dog" and so isn't Fiona (just a human, I mean)!

Ceolag,
Great update. I was feeling a bit thorn between Kaija and Elea but in the end the choice came naturally!
I was wavering after Kaija's interactions but ultimately, having Elea sharing her passion for, well, Neverwhere... somehow had it all making sense and sealed the deal. I'll still go for two different playthroughs though, something I very rarely do.
In the end felt like it was short. Take it as a compliment! I want more because I really am enjoying this story.

Another thing! Measuring by your patron numbers, feel like your work is being ridiculously undervalued. I can't change that all by myself, but I'll add to that number and expect your level of support will grow to match the level of your work.

Thanks a lot, Vleder.
As I already said, I appreciate any kind of support. Posting here or chatting on my Discord already IS support.

Damn that went by fast. So is there no lewd scenes in chapter 3? Or are they mega hidden.

There is one. You need to accept Anissa's proposal in Chapter 2 (go to the bar without Helena).

Hmm. Very mixed update. The character work is generally good, but the MC remains annoying and the big reveal of Neverwhere fell flat.

Spoiler: Chapter 3 - General Thoughts

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Oh, and one very minor thing I noticed:

Spoiler: Nitpick Alert!

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tl;dr The visuals are great, the characters are fun and the story is compelling, but the MC's shortsighted and the big explanation for the setting made no sense. I want to believe, but you haven't sold me yet.

Thanks A LOT for that long feedback.
Lots of food for thought.
Your point about Neverwhere got me thinking. Especially about how others handled it. And most of the time it's hardly explained why nobody noticed the weird things. If at all. For example the Dresden Files: the main character runs around in modern Chicago blowing up things. The reaction of the authorities? Well, we have that special police department that deals with supernatural shit. We place all kinds of people there, we can't fire them but don't want them in the "serious" departments.
Even when half of that department is shredded into pieces by a mythical creature, the authorities just go "Well, we'll replace the lost guys but we still don't believe in supernatural things."

The Nightside by Simon Green is just... there. No further explanation why the world isn't going crazy over it.

Maybe it's one of those things you just need to accept to enjoy the setting in general.
You're absolutely right, a good explanation for all of it is hard. To the point, it's probably impossible to have answers to all doubts and questions. At least I can't remember about any book series that managed to achieve that.

Nice VN so far looking forward to future updates. Thanks Ceolag.

Spoiler: Small bug

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Glad you like it. And thanks for the report. I never use auto forward and didn't have something like that happen to me.
I'll look into it.

 

[WastedTalent]

Morning, everyone




Don't get me wrong, I'm not arguing, just trying to explain because I failed to do so ingame, obviously.
We all deal with unexpected situations differently. Some go into full confrontation, some just accept, some deny, and some desperately try to stick to their "normal" life. Often enough it doesn't matter what exactly the new situation is. It can be the loss of a loved one. Some cry for weeks and some seem to shrug it off without any emotion.

In our case, MC tries to stick to his normal routines in a world that isn't normal anymore.
Of course, it means I failed to explain his motivations better. At least for you.

Also, you're the first who mentioned the Flashdance reference, congrats
The first part is actually pretty close to the sequence in the movie (at least I think so...).




Uh-Oh. For guys like you, I spent several evenings on Fiona's (and Elea's) scene. I seriously hope I found all "weird" combinations.
Especially Fiona was a headache in that regard.

I'm really happy the Fiona scene works (at least for you). It's one of the things I was worried about before the release. Will it work for the players or does it feel too forced?

Thanks for your feedback.



Right now no endings for any side girl planned.



That's exactly why there's that option. To let you keep all options. You won't miss any of her content if you chose the step back (as long as your points with her are high enough). At some point (in a future chapter) you'll need to make a decision, tho.
That's true for all LI's.




Thanks a lot, Vleder.
As I already said, I appreciate any kind of support. Posting here or chatting on my Discord already IS support.




There is one. You need to accept Anissa's proposal in Chapter 2 (go to the bar without Helena).



Thanks A LOT for that long feedback.
Lots of food for thought.
Your point about Neverwhere got me thinking. Especially about how others handled it. And most of the time it's hardly explained why nobody noticed the weird things. If at all. For example the Dresden Files: the main character runs around in modern Chicago blowing up things. The reaction of the authorities? Well, we have that special police department that deals with supernatural shit. We place all kinds of people there, we can't fire them but don't want them in the "serious" departments.
Even when half of that department is shredded into pieces by a mythical creature, the authorities just go "Well, we'll replace the lost guys but we still don't believe in supernatural things."

The Nightside by Simon Green is just... there. No further explanation why the world isn't going crazy over it.

Maybe it's one of those things you just need to accept to enjoy the setting in general.
You're absolutely right, a good explanation for all of it is hard. To the point, it's probably impossible to have answers to all doubts and questions. At least I can't remember about any book series that managed to achieve that.



Glad you like it. And thanks for the report. I never use auto forward and didn't have something like that happen to me.
I'll look into it.

Tbh I've lost all interest in Kaija... Not sure how she could possibly be redeemed but yeah oath, duty, any of that crap if it comes before people you are supposed to love then it's not healthy. As for anyone else involved in the cover up or deceit whatever you want to call it they can all get bent too including Dad... so hopefully there is some kind of path where the MC has real choices instead of just do this LI or side character or do that one... Either way will keep an eye on it and see what happens....

 

[Boehser Onkel]

Also, you're the first who mentioned the Flashdance reference, congrats
The first part is actually pretty close to the sequence in the movie (at least I think so...).

well

i got goosebumps and the song from irene cara stuck into my head , so yeah you did really well

 

[Azsouth]

will that harem mod mentioned eventually be a thing that happens per update?

 

[Joshy92]

Wow That was a great update more Kaija is always welcome.
I especially liked the gym scene where she trains the mc

 

[Joshy92]

Also I see some others don't like Kaija
But to be honest I would throw all other girls out a window if my angel demanded it

 

[Avaron1974]

Also I see some others don't like Kaija
But to be honest I would throw all other girls out a window if my angel demanded it

I like Kaija, she's deff my main playthrough LI but i'm making her work for it.

I understand why she had to cover up her job but it does mess the trust up. The main reason I didn't break things off is they have known each other for years before getting together and can still make it work IF she doesn't fuck up again.

 

[Joshy92]

I like Kaija, she's deff my main playthrough LI but i'm making her work for it.

I understand why she had to cover up her job but it does mess the trust up. The main reason I didn't break things off is they have known each other for years before getting together and can still make it work IF she doesn't fuck up again.

Yeah the trust will take a while to build back up
but I think it can be done

It also doesn't hurt I think she is the most beautiful woman in the game

 

[ename144]

Thanks A LOT for that long feedback.
Lots of food for thought.
Your point about Neverwhere got me thinking. Especially about how others handled it. And most of the time it's hardly explained why nobody noticed the weird things. If at all. For example the Dresden Files: the main character runs around in modern Chicago blowing up things. The reaction of the authorities? Well, we have that special police department that deals with supernatural shit. We place all kinds of people there, we can't fire them but don't want them in the "serious" departments.
Even when half of that department is shredded into pieces by a mythical creature, the authorities just go "Well, we'll replace the lost guys but we still don't believe in supernatural things."

The Nightside by Simon Green is just... there. No further explanation why the world isn't going crazy over it.

Maybe it's one of those things you just need to accept to enjoy the setting in general.
You're absolutely right, a good explanation for all of it is hard. To the point, it's probably impossible to have answers to all doubts and questions. At least I can't remember about any book series that managed to achieve that.

Yeah, at a certain level the audience just has to suspend their disbelief, but I do think it's important to give them some sort of framework to support that disbelief even if it's not 100% bulletproof.

An example I like that seems very similar to Neverwhere is the Netherworld from the Feng Shui roleplaying game (or the Shadowfist card game). It's a sort of cave network full of danger and wonders, except it's a junction between different time periods rather than different worlds. But Feng Shui provides a simple explanation for why the Netherworld is a secret: the nature of the world conforms to the desires of those who control the most Chi, and the secret rulers of the modern juncture, the Ascended, WANT to be a hidden elite at the top of normal human society. With most of the world's Chi pulling for them, people generally go along with their whims and thus they are able to exert control at all levels of society through a network of 'pledged' agents. Sure, individuals will notice when a cybernetic gorilla piledrives a three-headed demon through a tanker truck, but when the news refuses to report it, the cops assure everyone it was just a terrorist stunt, internet conspiracy theorists claim it was aliens, and even organized crime encourages people to look the other way, it's easy to see why most people would shrug their shoulders and get back to work - especially since the Ascended work very hard to keep that sort of occurrence a rare thing.

As I said, it's not a perfect explanation; the exact degree to which Chi influences a person's attitude is vague and at times inconsistent. But it at least gives us a context that helps us understand how our perceived world fits into the 'true' picture. It also gives us some constraints that demonstrate why people who oppose the Ascended don't just start blabbing about the Netherworld; make too big a nuisance of yourself and the Ascended will single you out as a threat - and they have the resources of the entire world at their beck and call.

Obviously Neverwhere is a different situation, but I think it would still benefit from a better explanation for why human society is largely ignorant of the greater multiverse. I notice Kaija gets a *lot* of flack for lying to the MC; I think people would give her at least a little bit more of a break if we saw clear evidence of WHY that was necessary. If, say, awareness of the supernatural made you more prone to encounter it, or if we knew more about why and how the elite of Neverwhere enforce the masquerade, Kaija's actions would take on a much more nuanced tone.

Then again, I'm already inclined to trust Kaija and I'm the one complaining about the worldbuilding, so take this advice with a grain of salt. Good luck though, your game has a lot of potential!

 

[big_hawg]

OK, that Anissa scene is extremely hidden... it most (99%!) scenarios you do not tell a girl the clothes she's trying on look like shit (or Meh...) .

 

[yossa999]

Tbh I've lost all interest in Kaija... Not sure how she could possibly be redeemed but yeah oath, duty, any of that crap if it comes before people you are supposed to love then it's not healthy. As for anyone else involved in the cover up or deceit whatever you want to call it they can all get bent too including Dad... so hopefully there is some kind of path where the MC has real choices instead of just do this LI or side character or do that one... Either way will keep an eye on it and see what happens....

Yes, I had about the same impression of her after the first chapter, and the fact that she is a mandatory MC's girlfriend hasn't added to her likability either in my book. Well, I've bitched enough about this earlier in the thread And my first reaction was also to immediately dump her with all her quirks and bullshits, especially since there are so many beautiful girls around, absolutely stunning Fiona, witty, gentle and fragile Elea, a decent cast of side girls. Damn, even the big-eared creature looks awesome too, right? Who wouldn't want to tame a hot elven woman?

It takes an effort to accept Kaya, you have to constantly remember where she comes from. After all, since her childhood she was raised as a knight of the order, one can only imagine how much of that knightly-nobelty nonsense of all sorts her semi mental-crippled mentors hammered into her head. It might seem like she's maintaining her delusion about what's really important just to annoy the MC. To hell with all these oaths, secrets, moronic rituals, she has to be honest with her soulmate, right? But this is the world in which she has lived since childhood, and she knows no other. She has been taught all her life to serve the Order, to obey and respect the leadership, to believe in their codes and rules, and to always put the interests of the order ahead of her own, even sacrificing herself if necessary.

The MC's dad with the order's council is a rare peace of work I must say. The fucking architects of human souls, my ass. If anyone is to blame for why Kaija acts like this in the beginning, it's them, bunch of old bastards. In fact, the whole life of the girl passes under the supervision of these fanatics. They tell her what to believe, who to serve, where to fight, who to sleep with. Very nice. I don't know if Herbert's “Dune” was one of the inspirations for the author, but these Templars are very similar to the Bene Gesserit in their methods and morals. There is definitely some resemblance between them. No wonder Kaija's ass burned up so brightly when the MC questioned The Order's moral principles and methods in the recent chapter.

In my opinion, the character turned out to be very deep, interesting and believable. At first it seems that she does not care at all about their relationship, but this is clearly her aegis of restraint, developed over a lifetime. With whom should she discuss emotions and feelings, who was supposed to teach her how to express them, if all she did in her life was training in the slaughtering of the supernatural creatures and serving the Order without days off? And yet, she loves the MC, and if he decides to give her a second chance and takes a few steps towards her, she will happily seize this opportunity and sincerely try to make amends for her mistakes and build a relationship with him again.

So, I don't hate her anymore and I'm very interested in seeing her story. There's only one thing about her that bothers me. I can't shake the feeling that her face is a composite of several male and female portraits. Even though I've seen her in the shower, I'm still afraid that she's hiding something under her skirt.

 

[Boehser Onkel]

Yes, I had about the same impression of her after the first chapter, and the fact that she is a mandatory MC's girlfriend hasn't added to her likability either in my book. Well, I've bitched enough about this earlier in the thread And my first reaction was also to immediately dump her with all her quirks and bullshits, especially since there are so many beautiful girls around, absolutely stunning Fiona, witty, gentle and fragile Elea, a decent cast of side girls. Damn, even the big-eared creature looks awesome too, right? Who wouldn't want to tame a hot elven woman?

It takes an effort to accept Kaya, you have to constantly remember where she comes from. After all, since her childhood she was raised as a knight of the order, one can only imagine how much of that knightly-nobelty nonsense of all sorts her semi mental-crippled mentors hammered into her head. It might seem like she's maintaining her delusion about what's really important just to annoy the MC. To hell with all these oaths, secrets, moronic rituals, she has to be honest with her soulmate, right? But this is the world in which she has lived since childhood, and she knows no other. She has been taught all her life to serve the Order, to obey and respect the leadership, to believe in their codes and rules, and to always put the interests of the order ahead of her own, even sacrificing herself if necessary.

The MC's dad with the order's council is a rare peace of work I must say. The fucking architects of human souls, my ass. If anyone is to blame for why Kaija acts like this in the beginning, it's them, bunch of old bastards. In fact, the whole life of the girl passes under the supervision of these fanatics. They tell her what to believe, who to serve, where to fight, who to sleep with. Very nice. I don't know if Herbert's “Dune” was one of the inspirations for the author, but these Templars are very similar to the Bene Gesserit in their methods and morals. There is definitely some resemblance between them. No wonder Kaija's ass burned up so brightly when the MC questioned The Order's moral principles and methods in the recent chapter.

In my opinion, the character turned out to be very deep, interesting and believable. At first it seems that she does not care at all about their relationship, but this is clearly her aegis of restraint, developed over a lifetime. With whom should she discuss emotions and feelings, who was supposed to teach her how to express them, if all she did in her life was training in the slaughtering of the supernatural creatures and serving the Order without days off? And yet, she loves the MC, and if he decides to give her a second chance and takes a few steps towards her, she will happily seize this opportunity and sincerely try to make amends for her mistakes and build a relationship with him again.

So, I don't hate her anymore and I'm very interested in seeing her story. There's only one thing about her that bothers me. I can't shake the feeling that her face is a composite of several male and female portraits. Even though I've seen her in the shower, I'm still afraid that she's hiding something under her skirt.

but
there is more to kajya as it looks
she has clearly a family disaster to solve
remember this mumbling

kja "We {i}do{/i} have courage! We {i}do{/i} value our oaths! We {i}do{/i} have honor!"
mc_t "What the...?"
scene b1_ch3_sc2_kaija_17 with dissolve
kja "We {i}are not{/i} cowards!"

but it will be hard for the mc (me) to accept her again and trust her

 

[Morgan0902]

Hi... I was Wondering if there is an Update only file witch I've failed to find or we just have to download the whole game with every update?

 

[Dark Silence]

but
there is more to kajya as it looks
she has clearly a family disaster to solve
remember this mumbling

kja "We {i}do{/i} have courage! We {i}do{/i} value our oaths! We {i}do{/i} have honor!"
mc_t "What the...?"
scene b1_ch3_sc2_kaija_17 with dissolve
kja "We {i}are not{/i} cowards!"

but it will be hard for the mc (me) to accept her again and trust her

I haven't played yet, but that to me sounds more like a cadence you learn when in the military service. Or some sort of religious indoctrination.

 

[Yamura]

This one caught me by surprise; honestly think it has potential to be one of the top dozen or so games out there.

Rather than pursuing any particular girl, taking a wait & see approach right now. A lot of story to come, I guess

 

[Boehser Onkel]

I haven't played yet, but that to me sounds more like a cadence you learn when in the military service. Or some sort of religious indoctrination.

well
you must play this scene to understand

 

[micojive]

I notice Kaija gets a *lot* of flack for lying to the MC; I think people would give her at least a little bit more of a break if we saw clear evidence of WHY that was necessary.

It isn't even that for me personally. It's that she had this personal oath that she supposedly built her entire life around in this hidden world, chose to break it to save MC and continues to keep secrets after reveling the organization to MC. In the time after the stuff is revealed to MC he tries a few times to either be intimate or to have the talk with her but she blows him off, not having enough time. And when the MC calls her out on it she says she has MORE secrets that she doesnt feel comfortable sharing...

She is with the MC for years, supposedly loves him, breaks her oath which is the most important thing in the world for her and she still cant make time for MC, nah thats a garbage person who doesnt give two shits about you.

 

[Dark Silence]

She is with the MC for years, supposedly loves him, breaks her oath which is the most important thing in the world for her and she still cant make time for MC, nah thats a garbage person who doesnt give two shits about you.

That sounds more like she feels ashamed for breaking her oath and at some point she'll come to terms with it and then things will change. Give it some time before judging her that way. As I told Boehser Onkel I haven't played yet, so when I do, I may feel differently.

 

[micojive]

That sounds more like she feels ashamed for breaking her oath and at some point she'll come to terms with it and then things will change. Give it some time before judging her that way. As I told Boehser Onkel I haven't played yet, so when I do, I may feel differently.

When you play you will see, but she literally says the Oath has always been her #1 thing in her life and her rescuing you was the first time anything seemed more important. So either she actually never cared about as much as she says, or she still doesnt care about you enough to actually open up. Either way I'm out on this game unless a massive 180 happens from her in v4.

 

[yossa999]

but
there is more to kajya as it looks
she has clearly a family disaster to solve
remember this mumbling

kja "We {i}do{/i} have courage! We {i}do{/i} value our oaths! We {i}do{/i} have honor!"
mc_t "What the...?"
scene b1_ch3_sc2_kaija_17 with dissolve
kja "We {i}are not{/i} cowards!"

I see two options for now. She is either elven half-breed who pledged the Order, or she is... No, I don't want to talk about it. This is due to my doubts that her face looks masculine and that she can hide something under her skirt.

but it will be hard for the mc (me) to accept her again and trust her

Keep it in your pants with other girls, and you're halfway there I don't know, my MC will trust her to a certain extent, and won't believe in the slightest the Order's council and their pet dogs like Kevin. The non-dead dad will have to answer questions too, unless the elves cut his throat first. And if the romance path with Kaija doesn't work out, I can always fall back to the Warscared's strategy with girls "have them all, and then share them with friends and family ... and get payed for it!"