VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.6.0.2] [Ceolag]

[lorkdubo]

any news about ETA?
YES i'm impatentially waiting
before you wanna flame me for stupid question's,here's more food :
i'm Team Kaija
She just did her fucking job...

Absolutely true...
Cuz she never did it to hurt ya...

What changes the most about her is her background as your childhood friend/best friend. Of course, you are important to her regardless. If she only knew you since her mission was given and appeared magically in your life then that's another story.

 

[Quetzzz]

What changes the most about her is her background as your childhood friend/best friend. Of course, you are important to her regardless. If she only knew you since her mission was given and appeared magically in your life then that's another story.

Yeah, that's a fair take. I think my reservations about her are more romantic in nature. Kaija said she wasn't interested in the MC romantically, until she spent a lot of time with him (on the Templars' behest). This sullies the "origin story" somewhat, which is worsened by the mom & dad knowing about it, and likely pushing the two together. At least I remember something of a remark that his parents were always supportive of Kaija. Then, finally, Kaija still having secrets for the MC doesn't convince me she's all-in.

 

[Dessolos]

Yeah, that's a fair take. I think my reservations about her are more romantic in nature. Kaija said she wasn't interested in the MC romantically, until she spent a lot of time with him (on the Templars' behest). This sullies the "origin story" somewhat, which is worsened by the mom & dad knowing about it, and likely pushing the two together. At least I remember something of a remark that his parents were always supportive of Kaija. Then, finally, Kaija still having secrets for the MC doesn't convince me she's all-in.

What won me over mostly on the lovers path was the fact that she fought against them when ordered to be our girlfriend and only became our GF when she wanted to and not cause they ordered it. Though I read that bit of dialogue changes based on the path you are on.

 

[Quetzzz]

What won me over mostly on the lovers path was the fact that she fought against them when ordered to be our girlfriend and only became our GF when she wanted to and not cause they ordered it. Though I read that bit of dialogue changes based on the path you are on.

I remember reading the same on the "keep distance"-path (not sure what it's called officially, I haven't broken up with her)
What won you over makes the relationship based on a "lie" for me. Not really a lie, but it's the best word I can come up with. She did start to spend as much time as possible with the MC because of the Templars' orders, which ignited the flame. In a way, I think it would've been more kind of her if she swallowed those feelings and let the MC live a normal life.
Now compare that to today, where she's still the MC's bodyguard, but is hardly at home or spending time with him (not sure how she can bodyguard him under those circumstances). If they were in a happy relationship, then the choice would've been a lot easier.

 

[Dessolos]

I remember reading the same on the "keep distance"-path (not sure what it's called officially, I haven't broken up with her)
What won you over makes the relationship based on a "lie" for me. Not really a lie, but it's the best word I can come up with. She did start to spend as much time as possible with the MC because of the Templars' orders, which ignited the flame. In a way, I think it would've been more kind of her if she swallowed those feelings and let the MC live a normal life.
Now compare that to today, where she's still the MC's bodyguard, but is hardly at home or spending time with him (not sure how she can bodyguard him under those circumstances). If they were in a happy relationship, then the choice would've been a lot easier.

I understand your point and why you and others have issue with it. I just have a very understanding and forgiving personality. So the lie / secrets doesn't really bother me once I knew the context behind it.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

I understand your point and why you and others have issue with it. I just have a very understanding and forgiving personality. So the lie / secrets doesn't really bother me once I knew the context behind it.

For me its about trust, I trust Kaija's loyalty to the Templars, but I don't trust her loyalty to the MC even on the Kaija love path, she still isn't sure herself who she is loyal too. Its also about how the MC would feel when you learn a secret like that and everyone around you knows it, even your family. I've been there, its brutal. It never leaves you. So I can't let Kaija and her parents get away with it.

Its one of the things I love about this VN so far, there is a price to be paid for such betrayal. Or you can forgive them all if the player wants, though that is unrealistic, but it is only a game after all.

 

[Dessolos]

For me its about trust, I trust Kaija's loyalty to the Templars, but I don't trust her loyalty to the MC even on the Kaija love path, she still isn't sure herself who she is loyal too. Its also about how the MC would feel when you learn a secret like that and everyone around you knows it, even your family. I've been there, its brutal. It never leaves you. So I can't let Kaija and her parents get away with it.

Its one of the things I love about this VN so far, there is a price to be paid for such betrayal. Or you can forgive them all if the player wants, though that is unrealistic, but it is only a game after all.

yeah honestly I think it's one of those things you have to go through to truly understand because no matter how much I say I do get that point or view or understand I can't really without going through something like a betrayal or lost of trust in someone. Cause for me with knowing the context of the reasons I still trust her do to my lack of life experience and personality of being super forgiving and understanding but that personality comes from lack of life experience.

 

[DarkOs31]

For me its about trust, I trust Kaija's loyalty to the Templars, but I don't trust her loyalty to the MC even on the Kaija love path, she still isn't sure herself who she is loyal too. Its also about how the MC would feel when you learn a secret like that and everyone around you knows it, even your family. I've been there, its brutal. It never leaves you. So I can't let Kaija and her parents get away with it.

Its one of the things I love about this VN so far, there is a price to be paid for such betrayal. Or you can forgive them all if the player wants, though that is unrealistic, but it is only a game after all.

did you try her path at the beginning AND DIDN'T fuck her?
Cuz if you didn't fuck her,the dialogues are changing...
After that,she's more lovey dovey...
She's even questioning her loyalty

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

did you try her path at the beginning AND DIDN'T fuck her?
Cuz if you didn't fuck her,the dialogues are changing...
After that,she's more lovey dovey...
She's even questioning her loyalty

I did do the Kaija Love path or whatever it is called. She does question her loyalty but she is still loyal to the Templars first. She has made no decision to break trust with the Templars on that path, she just has doubts. After what she has done, being lovey dovey is the least she can do.

Its the same with cheaters, they will be lovey dovey after they cheat to appease their guilt while telling themselves they are "making it up" to their partner, even more so after they are caught. How can you trust them again? Even though I have played the love path I still have no trust in her character, but I thought it was only fair to play that path and get a more balanced view of her character.

Some disagree and that's okay. I admit it, I'm a hard ass once trust is broken, earning it back is a very difficult task. From my point of view, how will the MC ever trust her or his parents again? How long before they keep more secrets for "his own good". We don't even know if there is more secrets to come.

 

[DarkOs31]

I did do the Kaija Love path or whatever it is called. She does question her loyalty but she is still loyal to the Templars first. She has made no decision to break trust with the Templars on that path, she just has doubts. After what she has done, being lovey dovey is the least she can do.

Its the same with cheaters, they will be lovey dovey after they cheat to appease their guilt while telling themselves they are "making it up" to their partner, even more so after they are caught. How can you trust them again? Even though I have played the love path I still have no trust in her character, but I thought it was only fair to play that path and get a more balanced view of her character.

Some disagree and that's okay. I admit it, I'm a hard ass once trust is broken, earning it back is a very difficult task. From my point of view, how will the MC ever trust her or his parents again? How long before they keep more secrets for "his own good". We don't even know if there is more secrets to come.

yeah,but if you DONT have sex with her,she will open up to you...
she will then explain why she did it ...
But yes,i would NEVER trust his family again...

 

[Dessolos]

yeah,but if you DONT have sex with her,she will open up to you...
she will then explain why she did it ...
But yes,i would NEVER trust his family again...

Do you recall at what point in the game this is by chance. my backlog is kind of full not wanting to replay this game right now but I only played it once and had sex with her so I do kind of want to maybe speed run and see this scene, since you said it's a bit different.

 

[DarkOs31]

Do you recall at what point in the game this is by chance. my backlog is kind of full not wanting to replay this game right now but I only played it once and had sex with her so I do kind of want to maybe speed run and see this scene, since you said it's a bit different.

right at the start you can choose if you wanna have sex with her...choose NO...
then you'll have just breakfast with Kaija...
After this,she is rescuing you CUZ she loves you and NOT CUZ her boss orderd her...
fucking keyboard/auto corect O.O

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

yeah,but if you DONT have sex with her,she will open up to you...
she will then explain why she did it ...
But yes,i would NEVER trust his family again...

While that is commendable of her, she has lied to the MC for years. My MC can't trust her. If you are okay with that, that is fine and I'm not saying anyone should like or dislike her. I am just confirming why that is not enough for me. If I am in a relationship then there better not be secrets between us or it won't end well. After my first marriage, I don't do secrets. Had she remained just friends then I would have no problem if my friend had a big secret, partners are a different story.

 

[Maviarab]

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

While that is commendable of her, she has lied to the MC for years. My MC can't trust her. If you are okay with that, that is fine and I'm not saying anyone should like or dislike her. I am just confirming why that is not enough for me. If I am in a relationship then there better not be secrets between us or it won't end well. After my first marriage, I don't do secrets. Had she remained just friends then I would have no problem if my friend had a big secret, partners are a different story.

I actually am saying anyone who trusts her after what she did, deserves everything happen to them. I don't understand what is so hard to understand, whatever are the reasons she had she lied to MC from the beginning. IF she was even a good friend let alone being girlfriend, she would not be involved with MC. Be on friendly terms with him and protect him as your duty I have no problem with that but if you start a relationship with someone you do not lie to them, period. So if she really loved MC, as she said one day MC was going to learn everything, you'll start the relationship afterwards. If she was afraid of losing MC, she had to choose MC over her cult and be open about it.

As I see it, people are already aware of this because most of them say they will never trust MC's family ever again. When it comes to Kaija though, they start thinking with their dicks even though situations of Kaija and MC's family are exactly the same. She could have handled it as Fiona did and she would be in clear. If she said there are secrets she can't share but when the time comes she will be open about them and gave MC a choice, then everything would be okay. Being okay with the secrets would have been on MC at that point. Having secrets and telling lie, deceiving people are 2 separate things.

 

[Maviarab]

As I see it, people are already aware of this because most of them say they will never trust MC's family ever again. When it comes to Kaija though, they start thinking with their dicks even though situations of Kaija and MC's family are exactly the same. She could have handled it as Fiona did and she would be in clear. If she said there are secrets she can't share but when the time comes she will be open about them and gave MC a choice, then everything would be okay. Being okay with the secrets would have been on MC at that point. Having secrets and telling lie, deceiving people are 2 separate things.

Bottom line folks, especially DarkOs31 is that even on her loyal love path..she still puts the old Temps first. Ahead of you. She still lied to you....you! Even on her loyal love path, you are secondary...always have been, always will, the scene in Neverwhere proves that. You make your own way back...you stay safe...I have to do this. Ummm...isn't that why you're here with me in Neverwhere..to keep me safe? Just words at the end of the day. She is supposed to protect you...you....but she's never fucking around...and even when she is, she will abandon you in a heartbeat, as is proved in the story.

You want to forgive her...you go for it..but do not undermine what she has done and do not forget her 2 other paths where she doesn't give a fuck about you. You're new here, so will forgive you but we have been discussing this since the VN was first released. Don't try and educate us on her paths please.

 

[Defenestrator.for.traitor]

Bottom line folks, especially DarkOs31 is that even on her loyal love path..she still puts the old Temps first. Ahead of you. She still lied to you....you! Even on her loyal love path, you are secondary...always have been, always will, the scene in Neverwhere proves that. You make your back...you stay safe...I have to do this. Ummm..isn't that why you're here with me..to keep me safe? Just words at the end of the day. she supposed to protect you...you....but she never fucking around...and even when she is, she wuill abandon you in a heartbeat, as is proved in the story.

You want to forgive her...you go for it..but do not undermine what she has done and do not forget her 2 other paths where she doesn't give a fuck about you. You're new here, so will forgive you but we have been discussing this since the VN was first released. Don't try and educate us on her paths please.

When people are like Dessolos then I do understand them. He is aware what Kaija did was wrong, he is probably aware MC will always be secondary to Kaija. He accepts it as it is. He does not try to justify what she did or won't justify what she will do. He simply says I am a forgiving person, I know what she did was wrong but I believe she is genuine in her apology so I forgave her and I do accept whatever she brings in the future. I respect that, but when people try to justify it that is simply annoying or being Joshy and I don't know which is worse.

 

[ThorinKing]

It's amusing seeing discussions of "loyalty". I've only downloaded and haven't started the VN yet, but it seems the guys playing this believe that they should receive complete trust and loyalty from any woman they show interest in, over and above any loyalty they should have to their own family, etc. This same MC is likely sleeping with any woman with a pulse and a hole, not showing any loyalty to her whatsoever.

You want loyalty, don't be a dog and put a ring on it. If you aren't willing to fully commit and be wholly faithful and wholly loyal, quitcherbitchin'. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If it weren't for double standards, I'm betting most of you would have no standards at all.

 

[xapican]

If I'm sincere, I'm only holding against for the sake of sport and to piss Mavria, Defen, DS, GOA, and some other off a bit, plus it is soo much fun seeing Joshy simp..... But look ,great story and great character development I'm shure you you will enjoy at the fullest,

 

[Dark Silence]

It's amusing seeing discussions of "loyalty". I've only downloaded and haven't started the VN yet, but it seems the guys playing this believe that they should receive complete trust an loyalty from any woman they show interest in, over and above any loyalty they should have to their own family, etc. This same MC is likely sleeping with any woman with a pulse and a hole, not showing any loyalty to her whatsoever.

You want loyalty, don't be a dog and put a ring on it. If you aren't willing to fully commit and be wholly faithful and wholly loyal, quitcherbitchin'. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

If it weren't for double standards, I'm betting most of you would have no standards at all.

What tf are you on about, bro? Technically, the only girl we can bang is Kaija. The so-called girlfriend. We can flirt with others if we want. There's no promiscuity goin on.

But fuck Kaija. I didn't flirt with anyone else, even after she showed her true colors. I restarted, avoided havin sex with her and then started my playthru with Fiona.