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ename144
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Looks like we got our animation surge, right on schedule. That brings Ceolag's overall average to roughly 89 static renders, 1.9 animations, and 250 lines per week since work on Chapter 5 officially began. Here are the charts:
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I'm really looking forward to meeting the elves, so the wait should be worth it however long it winds up being. I wonder if this is our second guide - now to lead us back to the mundane world? If so, hopefully she'll be a step up from Nightingale.
DaFinker
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Great render, but silly question - tea is always better from a mug.
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- Jul 26, 2023
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Yet some people seem to think she's worthy as an LI and redeemable! SMH!
Dessolos
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For me I found her pretty easy to forgive so she is already redeemed to me. But that's cause im a super passive person and find it easier to forgive than most haha.
DaFinker
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She's best girl: she was willing to sacrifice her future and her happiness for MC rather than continue to honor her oath to the Templars and just let things play out.
- Jul 26, 2023
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You had a very different playthrough to me. In mine, there was no sacrifice, in fact, she specifically said, "if she had to do it all over again, she would still honor her oath and lie to MC." She was sad about it, but had no regrets, her oath always had and always will come first.
Dessolos
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i'd have to disagree with this even tho I forgiven her. She was clearly brainwashed from a young age so she really never had a choice in her future so I don't believe she sacrificed a thing she is doing what she always has known. However I do suspect her loyalty for them at least on the love path is going to slowly start to waver and instead until she does eventually put the MC before the Templars.
With that being said I did find her easy to forgive given the context of everything once it was revealed. The lie about the templars wasn't a big deal at all for me once I learned the context. That and well not something the MC would believe without proof and no way she could take the MC to the base without getting in trouble so that was a non issue for me.
While others have issue she moved in with the MC and entered into a relationship without spilling her secrets that's no issue for me either because of what I said above. While she is my favorite she is also close to be not my favorite. Because while I mostly trust her. I can't trust the templars and well she is completely loyal to them for now. So if they ordered her to do something she disagreed with I don't know what would win her love for the MC or loyalty for the Templars , as long the order wouldn't harm the MC is in anyway. If it was something that could harm the MC I think she would disobey a direct order.
So for now I trust her about 70-80% of the way and forgiven her. But when it comes to mattered that are related to Templars and demons I feel unless she needs to know it's best to keep her at arms length when it comes to Templar / Neverwhere secrets for now unless it's something important like a demon attack.
DaFinker
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She lied at first, but then broke her oath to protect him when shit hit the fan. Until that time, honoring her oath didn't put MC in danger and allowed him to live a life free of the pressures of being the Templar leader's son. He was blissful and at peace. Then things changed, and she placed him above her oath.
- Jul 26, 2023
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She didn't break her oath. She disobeyed one order, and if you want to be technical, her major order was to protect MC, so she disobeyed 1 order, to obey her prime directive.
The first and only time she didn't follow an order and she didn't even get in trouble because of who it was, she was saving.
She has never placed him above her oath (yet!). Saving him was her oath.
Even after she saved him, nothing changed. She still said:
"My sense of duty won, I can't apologize for lying to you."
"If I did it all over again, I would still lie to you."
"Duty First"
Things may yet change and she will place MC above her oath. But she definitely hasn't yet.
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DaFinker
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True. But she had conflicting orders. When you have conflicting orders, you follow the major directive, or the one from the highest authority, which is what she did.
DaFinker
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I honestly think most folks so salty about her, consciously or not, are mostly pissed that she made a decision that a man would have made under the same circumstances, but that it was the woman doing the protecting and the man being protected - it doesn't fit with the "natural order". Not saying it's outright, hard misogyny, but the "soft misogyny" that the man is the protector and must always know everything and it's a betrayal of the natural order of things if a woman makes such a decision - a decision that would seem stoic and heroic if made by the man. It's the same ingrained hindbrain kind of thing that makes a man hesitate just slightly more when it's a woman with a gun on him than when it's a man: we're wired to protect the women and children, not harm them, even if they're about to murder us or someone else. Some will screech at that assessment (I'm not like that at all!!!!!!), but I'm pretty sure the science of it is on my side.
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Really??I honestly think most folks so salty about her, consciously or not, are mostly pissed that she made a decision that a man would have made under the same circumstances, but are pissed that it was the woman doing the protecting and the man being protected - it doesn't fit with the "natural order". Not saying it's outright, hard misogyny, but the "soft misogyny" that the man is the protector and must always know everything and it's a betrayal of the natural order of things if a woman makes such a decision - a decision that would seem stoic and heroic if made by the man. It's the same ingrained hindbrain kind of thing that makes a man hesitate just slightly more when it's a woman with a gun on him than when it's a man: we're wired to protect the women and children, not harm them, even if they're about to murder us or someone else. Some will screech at that assessment (I'm not like that at all!!!!!!), but I'm pretty sure the science of it is on my side.
I disagreed with you and pointed out why I don't believe she broke her oath, and at this point of time, she is putting the order before any relationship.
That makes me a misogynist?
I have no idea how you made that jump. She lies to MC for a very long time and refuses to apologise, so I hate all women?
Some form of apology and remorse would change things. Instead she gets defensive and says "Don't you dare judge me, you know nothing about us." I'd be just as pissed if MC was the one doing it.
These are the reasons I don't like her very much. Not because I hate women.
I am just about the furtherest you can get. When my eldest was 10, my wife went to work and I became a house husband to raise the kids. I have absolutely no problem with strong women. To say I hate women, because I disagree with you and don't like the behavior one woman's behavior is just offensive.
Dessolos
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lol what is up with this thread and when people talk about why they don't like Kaija seems alot of time there is always one person that says they are a misogynist like wtf. I disagree with the hate she gets personally but it's very understandable why many do dislike her.
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I don't hate her, and even said I was happy if she was given a believable redemption path. Besides you know I only make Kaija comments to stir up you and Xapi.
Dessolos
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yeah wasn't talking about you or any one person reallyI don't hate her, and even said I was happy if she was given a believable redemption path. Besides you know I only make Kaija comments to stir up you and Xapi.
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I don't hate her. I just don't find her trustworthy.
As it has been said, duty comes first, hypothetically, if her masters for some reason found MC dangerous to them and told her to get rid of him, just hypothetically, well...
I am exaggerating of course but you get the point.
And so far nothing has changed, duty still comes first, it's neither bad or good, it is just what it is.
DaFinker
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Maybe "misogyny" is the wrong word - too strong. Chauvinism might be better.
Regardless, it's an ingrained belief that, as men, we have a particular role and it can rustle our jimmies if that role is usurped in any way, even for our own good. The closer the person is to us that usurps that role and our belief that only we should make decisions about what we should know and what is best for us and our well being, the more we get rustled. However, we also believe that we are capable of making those decisions on behalf of someone else - particularly "our" women.
Think about it before you reject it out of hand - it's a well documented part of the male psyche. It's what drives us to arm ourselves to protect "our women" and families. If you don't believe it, do some reading on the psychological make up of men and women and our pre-programmed tendencies. They're real, whether you want to acknowledge them or not, and they impact our reactions to the things that happen to and around us. It isn't something that's malicious or evil, per se, but it can lead to us having a real hissy fit when we're left out of the loop about something that impacts us and can shade our reaction to the person that does that "to" us, ranging from feelings of disappointment to feelings of betrayal, and other points in between.
My reaction is disappointed understanding; that seems to be close to Dessolos reaction as well; Milton749, and many others, went for full-on betrayal. If she'd been fucking our best friend while in a relationship with us, that's betrayal; trying to protect us and help us have our best possible life - that's something that should be forgivable. I know Milt will still disagree - you don't see yourself in those terms and don't think that petty side is part of you, but it's part of all of us. When we acknowledge it, we can better deal with it. Or not.
Dessolos
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that hypothetical situation is something id think she would disobey her loyalty to the templars for the MC if on the love path at least. I think she is only loyal up until the MC is in danger. But I get it why many don't trust her. For me she is trustworthy and not at the same time. I think she is trustworthy in her personal life but when it comes duty not so much at least until the MC is in danger. Which is why I feel she might slowly change how loyal she is over time.