VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.6.0.2] [Ceolag]

[Elduriel]

Can I go full conspiracy mode?
There are 2 traitors, 1 among each of Templars and Alfar.
Templar traitor: Linnae, Alfar traitor: Mab

Why would they betray their nation and what is their goal? No idea.

My reasoning?
It has been 5 chapters and other than obvious idiots such as that council guy that wanted to start a war, we've seen no one that might be a "villain".
So unless it's the ice cream guy from date with Elea, my money's on Linnae and Mab. Highly positioned within their organization/nation, don't like things as they currently are, and are "passive" in background. Passive on surface stinks to me.

Linnae is way too honest and nice. A Templar without hidden agenda? Yeah, right.

Mab (on kill Finn route) has cryptic meeting with MC. Hell, wouldn't be surprised if she was the one to actually have done the killing on spare Finn route.

I could see all of that to be true honestly, even if it isn't Linnae there could be someone on the council... but she is not a bad candidate if there is going to be a traitor. It's obviously not the guy whose name I can't remember, he would be way too obvious. As for Mab, I'm not too sure. Plus we haven't met a whole lot of them so far.

 

[Tremonia]

Can I go full conspiracy mode?

Anytime. That's better as all the dumb waifu wars like in other threads.

There are 2 traitors, 1 among each of Templars and Alfar.
Templar traitor: Linnae, Alfar traitor: Mab

Mah. I can't see this. At first: Mab is one of the Queens since over a millenia. She has nearly nothing to win and everything to lose. As long as she didn't lost her mind she wouldn't betray her people. And Linnae... I just can't see it. She's a Templar through and through. Sure, she has her issues with some things and how they're dealt with but her oath means not less as it means for Kaija.

I think there're traitor on both sides, but not them. At the Templars I can think of William Nolan, but he's very obvious because of the way he acts. Could be red herring. At the Álfars I can't think of one of them. We only know Medb, Oberon, Mab, and Ailill. Medb never. It wouldn't fit to her personality. The other ones we don't know enough to make any conclusions. My guesses are the traitors are in the lower ranks on both sides. Steroid-Kevin for example is stupid enough to follow the wrong people.

I think the biggest problem is the third party we don't know yet. My bet's on the Vatican, the "Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith" to be precise.

 

[Elduriel]

I think the biggest problem is the third party we don't know yet. My bet's on the Vatican, the "Dicastery for the Doctrine of the Faith" to be precise.

It's obviously the CIA, they have the track record

 

[nitkonikic]

I think there're traitor on both sides, but not them. At the Templars I can think of William Nolan, but he's very obvious because of the way he acts. Could be red herring. At the Álfars I can't think of one of them. We only know Medb, Oberon, Mab, and Ailill. Medb never. It wouldn't fit to her personality. The other ones we don't know enough to make any conclusions.

That's precisely why I'm flagging Linnae and Mab.

Nolan is an idiot, a fool and incompetent. To be a traitor as well? Surely it can't be THAT obvious.
On Alfar side, there is no one.

So if all of a sudden we get introduced to new, competent people from both factions, they would be candidates #1.
Granted, all of this could be just bs and there actually aren't any traitors and it's all work of 3rd faction.

If that happens, I'm still going with Fiona's family. Again, they are, so far, the only mentioned 3rd side. Very powerful and cruel as far as we know. And Fiona knows about Neverwhere, goes without saying so would they.
"Powerful people killing those who might expose Neverwhere" - Wouldn't exclude them from list of those people.

 

[nitkonikic]

Apologies for double posting, but bit more on why it might be Linnae.

She left her family, left her life, all for Templars.

Only for those templars to turn into what they currently are. Bunch of headless chicken, politicians arguing over everything.
They try to ORDER their best soldiers to sleep with men they don't like. They are a sham and insult to order she joined and was part of for years.

Hell, she can even play that card with MC in the end. "See what they did! They sent you a woman to seduce you so they can control your life. Organization under me would never do that. Want proof? Ask your parents, I was against it in the first place".

Yes. She is a templar through and through. But not a Templar of current order.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Apologies for double posting, but bit more on why it might be Linnae.

She left her family, left her life, all for Templars.

Only for those templars to turn into what they currently are. Bunch of headless chicken, politicians arguing over everything.
They try to ORDER their best soldiers to sleep with men they don't like. They are a sham and insult to order she joined and was part of for years.

Hell, she can even play that card with MC in the end. "See what they did! They sent you a woman to seduce you so they can control your life. Organization under me would never do that. Want proof? Ask your parents, I was against it in the first place".

Yes. She is a templar through and through. But not a Templar of current order.

I suggested Linnae before. She was happy to give up her leadership role far too easily. She is disillusioned and happy to stir up trouble in the Templar ranks and leadership. On the hand, would she risk a lot of death and destruction just to reset the Templars?

 

[xapican]

Yep, my thoughts as well. DAMN IT MC, MEDB TOLD IT WASN'T THEM THAT TRIED TO KIDNAP YOU, BRING IT UP WITH TEMPLARS FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!

He already did, he told Kaija and his father, about it at least on the no fire path.
Intersting is the dialoge of Nightingale when the go to Alfarheimr, seems that she is an orphan as well, and don't trust the templars.
still not shure about the whole "trophy hunter" thing.

 

[nitkonikic]

I suggested Linnae before. She was happy to give up her leadership role far too easily. She is disillusioned and happy to stir up trouble in the Templar ranks and leadership. On the hand, would she risk a lot of death and destruction just to reset the Templars?

Can't make omelette without first breaking few eggs.

It wouldn't surprise me if it's only 3rd party, but if it turns out it is Linnae, there are definitely more than a few reasons why she might do it.
Hell, good reasons!

And what would be funniest, it would also mean she was honestly good to MC because she finds him wronged by her organization, and not for any agenda.

Would be nice conflict for MC too. The one honest person is the person he has to stop because ends don't justify the means, and war approach would sacrifice thousands for potential improvement.

(I will also shamelessly plug Ash and Sand trilogy books by Richard Nell where MC does unspeakable horrors and sacrifices thousands, all to build better future for his people)

 

[Maviarab]

Mab (on kill Finn route) has cryptic meeting with MC

It's hardly cryptic...she mind interrogting him just as she did with his father.

 

[xapican]

Linnae is way too honest and nice. A Templar without hidden agenda? Yeah, right.

Sorry, bro but sometimes seems that you let your prejudgments take over. no offense meant and please don't take it as an attack.
The organization of the Templars you find 2 archtypes, those who are driven by high Ideals, commited to the cause and convinced they do it for the good of humanity.
And those, who see the organization, as a medium to achieve their own goals, hinted by Linnae, and father.
that meaning that a hidden agenda exist, also good possible a organization within the organization. with more mundane goals, than protecting human kind.
I suspect that Philip, ( finacial council) and Jason are the traitors about Maria I'm not shure.
although Jason seems more a paw than a conspirator.
There is one detail as well, in the past there was already an intent for a take over, a war within Templars and Neverwhere cartels.
Plus it is unclear, and for the now ongoing story irrelevant, who ordered the revenge strike against the Cartels in Neverwhere.

 

[nitkonikic]

Sorry, bro but sometimes seems that you let your prejudgments take over. no offense meant and please don't take it as an attack.
The organization of the Templars you find 2 archtypes, those who are driven by high Ideals, commited to the cause and convinced they do it for the good of humanity.
And those, who see the organization, as a medium to achieve their own goals, hinted by Linnae, and father.
that meaning that a hidden agenda exist, also good possible a organization within the organization. with more mundane goals, than protecting human kind.
I suspect that Philip, ( finacial council) and Jason are the traitors about Maria I'm not shure.
although Jason seems more a paw than a conspirator.
There is one detail as well, in the past there was already an intent for a take over, a war within Templars and Neverwhere cartels.
Plus it is unclear, and for the now ongoing story irrelevant, who ordered the revenge strike against the Cartels in Neverwhere.

How dare you?!?! Block, ignore and downvote...actually this is not reddit, so let me just reply instead.

I'll never consider valid arguments as attack.
Guilty as charged. Heavily prejudiced towards Templars, and that definitely clouds how I see Linnae.

As I mentioned in another comment, I don't consider all templars bad, and I definitely think organization is needed as such.
But yes, I am sceptic as hell when it comes to Linnae. She is just too nice.

For possible traitors...others are just, well, too incompetent to be traitors.
That could be intentional of course, to make them less likely, but don't think so.
Steroid Kevin was mentioned as possible, and that could also make sense (bar scene where he keeps looking at MC), but he would only follow orders from someone else. And again, I see Linnae in that role.

 

[Elduriel]

How dare you?!?! Block, ignore and downvote...actually this is not reddit, so let me just reply instead.

I'll never consider valid arguments as attack.
Guilty as charged. Heavily prejudiced towards Templars, and that definitely clouds how I see Linnae.

As I mentioned in another comment, I don't consider all templars bad, and I definitely think organization is needed as such.
But yes, I am sceptic as hell when it comes to Linnae. She is just too nice.

For possible traitors...others are just, well, too incompetent to be traitors.
That could be intentional of course, to make them less likely, but don't think so.
Steroid Kevin was mentioned as possible, and that could also make sense (bar scene where he keeps looking at MC), but he would only follow orders from someone else. And again, I see Linnae in that role.

also if there is a traitor they have to be high up the chain to be able to manipulate events to such an extent, a simple soldier wouldn't have the insight, so I think that rules out the likes of steroid Kevin.

 

[xapican]

How dare you?!?! Block, ignore and downvote...actually this is not reddit, so let me just reply instead.

I'll never consider valid arguments as attack.
Guilty as charged. Heavily prejudiced towards Templars, and that definitely clouds how I see Linnae.

As I mentioned in another comment, I don't consider all templars bad, and I definitely think organization is needed as such.
But yes, I am sceptic as hell when it comes to Linnae. She is just too nice.

For possible traitors...others are just, well, too incompetent to be traitors.
That could be intentional of course, to make them less likely, but don't think so.
Steroid Kevin was mentioned as possible, and that could also make sense (bar scene where he keeps looking at MC), but he would only follow orders from someone else. And again, I see Linnae in that role.

How do you, Benchmark incompetent? (sorry english in not my native lang.) I mean how do you asses, competence in the given situation what is the scale ?
In the situation where the Grandmaster, was abducted, and they had to negotiate, those who took a proactive aproach, were Linnae, Mary, and Jason (William) Philip was more like "oh he is being held hostage, well we have to see what we do...."
William, wanted to start a war, (not very competent nor diplomatic) but at least he tried to do something, (that is why I said he is proactive) Linnae , started to prepare worst case scenario, (trying to recruit someone in the line of the grandmaster, MC), Mary supported her, that the MC run into the squirmish with he hellspawn, no one knew about it, but that wouldn't had happend if Linnae didn't order Kaija to show MC the ropes, in Neverwhere.
What make Philip suspect ? from my angle
1. he is not soo engaged in coming up for a solution as his superior is taken hostage.
2. how he behaved with the sword Durendal, he wanted to give it to MC but didn't tell him about its power nor significance,
he wanted to get a hold of the sword, as well William wanted, anyway if MC keeps the sword it will be much easier to take it back by force as when William has it, (MC is not so skilled in fencing and has no military training, William on the other hand has it.)
3. As chief of the finacial operations, he is the one with connections to manouver MC into the ambush, by pressuring his superiors in the Insurance company how it happend or knowing the decision takers of it.

 

[e6mill]

William, wanted to start a war, (not very competent nor diplomatic) but at least he tried to do something, (that is why I said he is proactive) Linnae , started to prepare worst case scenario, (trying to recruit someone in the line of the grandmaster, MC), Mary supported her, that the MC run into the squirmish with he hellspawn, no one knew about it, but that wouldn't had happend if Linnae didn't order Kaija to show MC the ropes, in

There's an old bit of military wisdom that people fall into 4 categories and you can find jobs for 3 of the 4, but the remaining type is best avoided.

 

[Raziel_8]

Yep, my thoughts as well. DAMN IT MC, MEDB TOLD IT WASN'T THEM THAT TRIED TO KIDNAP YOU, BRING IT UP WITH TEMPLARS FOR FUCKS SAKE!!!

He did. As he came back from his first neverwhere trip, directly after the talk about Durendal, infront of their whole council.
William said Medb is lying and not to be trusted, Linnae said there seems to be more going on than they are aware off, the others seemed to agree with Linnae.

 

[Maviarab]

 

[HornyyPussy]

Not a chance that Linnae or Kaija is the traitor. They both have points as LI's and I seriously doubt it's gonna be a potential LI.

Finn's points all went to Medb so we knew she was only temporary unfortunately.....

 

[nitkonikic]

Not a chance that Linnae or Kaija is the traitor. They both have points as LI's and I seriously doubt it's gonna be a potential LI.

Finn's points all went to Medb so we knew she was only temporary unfortunately.....

Linnae is not LI.
She might have some scenes, but not one of main LIs. That's not proof of anything though, and as I said when I wrote my first post about it, it's some deep conspiracy bs, nothing else.

There's a reason I'm not writing books or VNs, I'm a shit author XD

 

[HornyyPussy]

Linnae is not LI.
She might have some scenes, but not one of main LIs. That's not proof of anything though, and as I said when I wrote my first post about it, it's some deep conspiracy bs, nothing else.

There's a reason I'm not writing books or VNs, I'm a shit author XD

Looks like she's a potential LI since she got points as one.

 

[Maviarab]

Looks like she's a potential LI since she got points as one.

Side only....just like you gain points with Anissa, Kari, Kate...