Jack Nippleson
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My old ass trying to keep up and read all of that without the popcorn.
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xapican
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ename144
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You say they couldn't force Finnabair to stop... and yet when the MC disarms Finnabair and refuses to kill her, that's exactly what Medb finally does. It's pretty clear that Medb COULD have forced Finnabair to back down earlier (or at least limited the duel to end in something short of death), she just didn't care to.
And sure, the MC killing Finnabair definitely terminates any hope of finding a peaceful resolution (that's a big part of why I spared her), but that has no bearing on whether the Alfar have any right to detain the MC. They'd already rejected his mission and insisted he fight for his life - which makes them assholes of the highest order if they act outraged that he danced to the tune they called.
TrixRabbit
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She can stop her after because she had her duel and lost. And you're confusing two separate things. The challenge is Finnabairs right they can't force her to give up that right - they can only force the issue when she has lost. She has escaped her challenge with her life, but should not have. How they treat MC is a different / seperate issue. They have never allowed a human visitor before (with the exception of the one who arrived as an infant) and they have no intention of doing so now - especially not a Templar. But then MC changes the equation by letting Finnabair live. Then they grudgingly allow him to visit but it's a day by day thing - his behavior will determine how long he can stay, and how much of an audience he will get. Without Finnabair's challenge, they would have simply kicked him out or killed him. IIRC the Elves used to live in the human world as well but were basically exterminated and forced to retreat, then at another point humans tried to colonize Alfheimr and were driven out - with great loss of life on both sides. They have no love for humans, and less for Templars and everyone tried to tell MC he was stupid for going there.You say they couldn't force Finnabair to stop... and yet when the MC disarms Finnabair and refuses to kill her, that's exactly what Medb finally does. It's pretty clear that Medb COULD have forced Finnabair to back down earlier (or at least limited the duel to end in something short of death), she just didn't care to.
And sure, the MC killing Finnabair definitely terminates any hope of finding a peaceful resolution (that's a big part of why I spared her), but that has no bearing on whether the Alfar have any right to detain the MC. They'd already rejected his mission and insisted he fight for his life - which makes them assholes of the highest order if they act outraged that he danced to the tune they called.
Dessolos
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Well at least they are talking about something else than why Kaija sucks or doesn't suck lol
ename144
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I'm not confusing anything. It was - and I'm tired of having to repeat this - a duel to the death. Finnabair wasn't dead. Evil as it was, she was well within her technical rights to get back up and kill the MC if he refused to finish her off, yet suddenly NOW it was okay for Medb to alter the terms of the duel. You know, once she realized it was her own flesh and blood that was actually in danger.
Sorry, but I'll take the MC's moronic parents and non-love-path Kaija over that any day.
TrixRabbit
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Ha ha... ok well enjoy them.I'm not confusing anything. It was - and I'm tired of having to repeat this - a duel to the death. Finnabair wasn't dead. Evil as it was, she was well within her technical rights to get back up and kill the MC if he refused to finish her off, yet suddenly NOW it was okay for Medb to alter the terms of the duel. You know, once she realized it was her own flesh and blood that was actually in danger.
Sorry, but I'll take the MC's moronic parents and non-love-path Kaija over that any day.
Pixillin'
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No. Finnabair had her challenge / duel - and lost. That's why she had to stop. Instead of being dead, she had a "life debt" but her challenge was still over - she didn't get a second one. You can't challenge someone you owe a life debt to to a fight to the death. I mean, I haven't been to their courts but I think in that situation you'd just have to kill yourself. And unlike your parents and Kaija, at least Finnabair was honest. You might not like the message, but trying to kill you is completely honest.I'm not confusing anything. It was - and I'm tired of having to repeat this - a duel to the death. Finnabair wasn't dead. Evil as it was, she was well within her technical rights to get back up and kill the MC if he refused to finish her off, yet suddenly NOW it was okay for Medb to alter the terms of the duel. You know, once she realized it was her own flesh and blood that was actually in danger.
Sorry, but I'll take the MC's moronic parents and non-love-path Kaija over that any day.
TrixRabbit
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I just hope that it wasn't that life debt that got her killed - like someone pushed her for information and she tried to protect MC and got killed.
ename144
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This is yet more nonsense. Finnabair had already been beaten once before by the MC when she challenged him to a duel - to the death! - and that was apparently fine. After Finnabair issued her challenge, Medb and Ailill didn't end the duel as soon as the MC verbally refused, nor did they warn him that drawing a sword would constitute acceptance of the duel. And they certainly didn't mention that this duel To! The! Death! could be ended by something other than death - not until they realized Finnabair was all but certain to die if the duel continued. Finnabair should have been able to keep fighting until she or the MC was dead, but in the end she was forced to yield by the same woman who earlier claimed she couldn't intervene. However honest Finnabair was - and I personally take a very dim view of rules lawyering when the victim is making a good faith effort - her parents were decidedly disingenuous.
Of course, my whole point is that trying to kill Finnabair is ALSO "entirely honest," yet the Alfar apparently still take objection to it. 'Rules for thee but not for me' is hardly a new idea, but the Alfar take it to a ruthless extreme that I find particularly noxious. The later revelation the Finnabair was Medb's daughter only makes the hypocrisy that much worse.
xapican
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you Know what ? burn the Alfar and the Templars, ride with Anisa into the sunset ....
Pixillin'
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She had been beaten by him once but it wasn't an official duel. She lost the duel. And it probably didn't occur to them to tell him. He was their first human visitor in hundreds of years, to them it probably wasn't worth mentioning until after the fact - "Oh shit he drew his sword" and "Oh shit, he doesn't understand our rules". You're either not paying attention, not thinking about it much, or just trying to find ways to justify a point of view that has no relationship with reality. And again, they would have been within their rights to just kill him as soon as he arrived. He wasn't invited, he wasn't an official emessary, he was told before he left to see Medb that his best bet was to just turn around and go home. If you really want to hate the Alfar that's fine - but they haven't given MC any real reason to hate them. He did a stupid thing by going to visit them, he was warned that it was a stupid thing to do and did it anyway - and then was saved by his own actions (unless you decided to play it especially stupid.)
ename144
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First of all, I don't care how alien the Alfar are, the idea that the only way to refuse a duel is to let the aggrieved party kill you is asinine. Sure, Finnabair would technically be guilty of murder if she didn't pull her punch at the last second, but it would be a little late for the MC to care about it at that point. So right off the bat the Alfar's legal system is already on the thinnest of ice possible.
But beyond that, you cannot have it both ways: if the Alfar are such a litigious society that assaulting someone under a flag of truce is acceptable the instant his protection expires, then they're also litigious enough to recognize that the MC's verbal refusal to duel is in fact a refusal to duel - or at least tell him what else he needs to do to make that refusal formal. Medb - and Ailill - did no such thing. They were happy to turn a blind eye to his attempted refusal and allow the challenge to hang around until obvious happened, at which point it was tragically too late for the duel to be stopped.
Sorry, I don't buy that this outcome could somehow come as a surprise to them. And again, the letter of the law suddenly got *very* flexible AFTER Finnabair spectacularly failed to kill the MC.
Lastly, if you consider turning a blind eye to attempted murder then arresting the MC when he manages to defend himself "no reason" to hate them, I don't know what to tell you. I finally played through the "kill Finnabair" branch, and frankly the notion that the elves have the unmitigated gall to not only detain him but to tell him he should "be thankful [he's] still alive" for something they FORCED him to do is, in a word, outrageous. [EDIT : Oh right, I forgot about the interrogation and death mark; they did that, too!]
I agree the MC was stupid to go to Alfheimr (though I dispute that he was told it was stupid to go there; Kari implicitly told it was a good idea, AND explicitly told him that the Alfar would not be a great danger). But just because it was stupid doesn't mean it's suddenly okay to kill him for it, much less punish him for refusing to die like a nice victim. I'm asking sincerely: if the Alfar haven't done enough to earn his ire at that point, is there anything the Alfar could have done that would justify hatred?
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HornyyPussy
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metamorphMP
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It actually looks like you get off (not literally) when "fuck Kaija" discussions start, it's not the 1st time you're bringing this up)
So, don't complain next time it actually starts
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I hope she at least sucks and blows on the 'love' path
This is speculative bullshit that you're making up because it's just the only one brought up.
Look, I get it, you have an insanely unrealistic and psychopathic hate of the Templars for no reason I can see, but that does not mean the Alfar are angels. No one sane is going to buy it.
xapican
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HornyyPussy
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Too soon man, too soon.......Well, yes at least Finnabair is.....
Was she though? The wanting to kill my MC a few times sort of turned me off. A bit too much crazy for me.Well, yes at least Finnabair is.....