I didn't notice. If that is your biggest complaint I would recommend to just enjoy the VN and ignore it.
- Thread starter 7767
- Start date
Oh yeah, we wouldn't want any repetition in THIS thread. How does everyone feel about Kajia again?
Personally, I find this game frustrating. I like the premise, and I like the locations I don’t much like the characters though. Most of them are pretty meh a few of them are pretty, but their personalities are kind of flat and the writing is weird. It’s like half the time I don’t understand why people are doing the stuff they are doing. The Templars are as messed up as any cult when it comes to children, Kajia was either brainwashed beyond repair from an early age or she just doesn’t have emotions because she betrayed her childhood friend/boyfriend in a major way and she apparently had been doing it for as long as they knew each other.
That MC ever met Kajia in the park or spoke to her again is weird. That he went with her to Neverwhere is weird. That he took any part in “rescuing” his father is weird (it’s not his world and he should have been super pissed at his father anyway.) That he decided to visit the elves at all instead of just saying “not my circus, not my monkeys” is weird. I understand that these things had to happen for the story, but the writing never convinced me that it would be a logical thing for MC to do, or that he had good reasons for it.
I could list a bunch of other examples for MC and other characters, but I’ll stop there.
I also think it’s weird that there are 10-12 F. characters in this but only 4 of them are officially Lis. It kind of fucks with the suspension of disbelief because as a player you know who is/isn’t an “Official Li” but the character certainly wouldn’t know that and ironically – the most interesting characters (Finn, Jessica, the older Templar lady, & Kate) are not official. What is the MC’s thought process supposed to be? “I really like you, it’s a shame you’re not an Official Li.”
I’m trying hard to like this but the dev’s shortcomings as a writer and storyteller are making it difficult. To return to things that don’t make sense for a sec, the dev has just set up this situation where after finding out that everything in your life up to this point has been a lie, you connected with someone who is uninvolved with your parents and the templars killed her. (Please don't start whining about how he doesn't have proof - he's the complaints dept. for an insurance company, not a lawyer.) How the dev handles that in the next chapter is going to decide whether I keep trying or just bail on this one
- Aug 5, 2016
- 5,602
- 15,944
- 962
Easy, the office bits are like another game/setting. Who has time for secretaries when you're playing around with elven princesses and occult organizations?
What kind of nonsense is this?
Properly written explanation on why you don't like the game? Away with you. Can't have reasonable stuff on this site.
Joking aside, sorry to hear you didn't like the game so far.
I'll avoid talking about Kaija since my feelings for her are strong (in negative way) and everything has been repeated 100x already.
On other parts:
Why would he meet Kaija?
I'd attribute that to his father being kidnapped and him still being considered in danger.
He might be angry, but not wanting to see that topic resolved would be stupid.
Why go to Neverwhere with Kaija?
With you there, but that one was explained by dev. Simply put: his own time. Too much time investment to make alternate route there (there's a full post by Ceo explaining this one on this site, too lazy to search)
Why would he want to rescue his father?
Well, I mean...come on
This one is fairly obvious, and MC didn't have all answers by that point. Can't judge someone without all information. Once he got all information, we, as players, got the option to tell family to fuck off. Supposedly, this means family is gone gone. You actually can cross them off of your list.
Why would he go to Alfar (elves) after his father was rescued?
To paraphrase Pitch Meetings: "So the game can happen". Realistically, once his father was rescued and he had chat with his family, MC really should have option to just tell them all to shove it and leave. As in, get the hell away from those lying cunts and create new life, with new people and honest relationships.
But that wouldn't make much of a game. Unless made as some sort of alternate ending or such. Very few games do that, it is once again lots of extra work for no real gain.
For LIs, well, I have no problems with main and secondary LIs. Plenty of VNs do that, you can screw around, then pick one of main LIs or stay single in the end.
Minor note: sunk-cost fallacy sucks, don't get stuck on things you're not enjoying. There's a VN on this site most people would have in top 3 overall, I can't stand it. Dropped it, have no intention to go back.
If you don't enjoy something, don't force yourself to play it.
Based on your post, you didn't enjoy story, don't like characters, don't like certain situations which exist to move plot forwards. Just, well, drop it and move on.
And I'm not saying that in angry way, making honest advice. Best of luck
I get all of that. There are a few really big games that I don't like. With this one - I kinda have to see what happens next after the end of Ch. 5 but yeah, if I'm not wowed by it then I'll be done here. And I understand from a development perspective why certain things have to be (without getting into an argument over the details of everything I listed) but every time I have to look at it from a development perspective, rather than a story perspective it breaks immersion and that's happening way too often with this one.What kind of nonsense is this?
Properly written explanation on why you don't like the game? Away with you. Can't have reasonable stuff on this site.
Joking aside, sorry to hear you didn't like the game so far.
I'll avoid talking about Kaija since my feelings for her are strong (in negative way) and everything has been repeated 100x already.
On other parts:
Why would he meet Kaija?
I'd attribute that to his father being kidnapped and him still being considered in danger.
He might be angry, but not wanting to see that topic resolved would be stupid.
Why go to Neverwhere with Kaija?
With you there, but that one was explained by dev. Simply put: his own time. Too much time investment to make alternate route there (there's a full post by Ceo explaining this one on this site, too lazy to search)
Why would he want to rescue his father?
Well, I mean...come on
This one is fairly obvious, and MC didn't have all answers by that point. Can't judge someone without all information. Once he got all information, we, as players, got the option to tell family to fuck off. Supposedly, this means family is gone gone. You actually can cross them off of your list.
Why would he go to Alfar (elves) after his father was rescued?
To paraphrase Pitch Meetings: "So the game can happen". Realistically, once his father was rescued and he had chat with his family, MC really should have option to just tell them all to shove it and leave. As in, get the hell away from those lying cunts and create new life, with new people and honest relationships.
But that wouldn't make much of a game. Unless made as some sort of alternate ending or such. Very few games do that, it is once again lots of extra work for no real gain.
For LIs, well, I have no problems with main and secondary LIs. Plenty of VNs do that, you can screw around, then pick one of main LIs or stay single in the end.
Minor note: sunk-cost fallacy sucks, don't get stuck on things you're not enjoying. There's a VN on this site most people would have in top 3 overall, I can't stand it. Dropped it, have no intention to go back.
If you don't enjoy something, don't force yourself to play it.
Based on your post, you didn't enjoy story, don't like characters, don't like certain situations which exist to move plot forwards. Just, well, drop it and move on.
And I'm not saying that in angry way, making honest advice. Best of luck
Everybody has different things that continually nag them as they're trying to go through a story. I acknowledge everything you mentioned, but it all just blows past me and I don't care. But every time the "?!" gets used, I get a little more annoyed. Sadly, there's no way to make everybody happy.
P.S. It's totally a cult and Kaija is totally a broken person because of it, but...you know...she's hot so I'll allow it.
RNasc4444
Well-Known Member
- Aug 16, 2022
- 1,855
- 7,604
- 637
Absolutely agree on every single point mentioned in your post.
This game is weird in the sense that it is so far the only game I've played where I can't bring myself to like any of the more relevant characters. Including the MC. It's such a weird dichotomy because I really like everything else about the game. The story, the style, the world(s), the writing...it's all really solid. But the characters man...
While I harbor genuine hatred for some of them like Kaija, Medb, Finn, the parents or most of the Templars there are others like Elea, Fiona and Linnae who seem genuinely pleasant and while I don't hate them, I can't bring myself to like or even care the least bit about them... Also their design doesn't help at all. Most if not all of the characters faces are weird and alien-like. It's crazy that I found the 2 dancers at the club the most attractive ladies in the entire game by a wide margin. And the one who follows them is the MC's sister who isn't an LI.
But like I've mentioned before, my feelings on the game give me an unprecedented opportunity to try out a playstyle I've never done before in any AVN. A dickish, selfish, maybe darker and celibate MC who is only out for himself and cares for no one else unless Jess of course
I really liked Finn but like I said, none of the ones I really like are "official", I liked the older blond Templar but can't really see getting involved with a templar, I really like Jessica but don't want this to become an incest game, and I like Kate the bartender. Fionna is pretty, but especially after Finn my inclination would be not to get involved with anyone from that world - no supernatural beings, no Templars. I think I'd want as much distance between me and the Templars as possible - and I don't think I'd tell them where I went (other than Jess, after swearing her to secrecy). I suspect that after chapter 6 that's how I'll write my ending - "And then he took a job as a barista in Saskatchewan, hung his sword up on the wall at home and eventually settled down and had children with a girl who worked at the local supermarket."Absolutely agree on every single point mentioned in your post.
This game is weird in the sense that it is so far the only game I've played where I can't bring myself to like any of the more relevant characters. Including the MC. It's such a weird dichotomy because I really like everything else about the game. The story, the style, the world(s), the writing...it's all really solid. But the characters man...
While I harbor genuine hatred for some of them like Kaija, Medb, Finn, the parents or most of the Templars there are others like Elea, Fiona and Linnae who seem genuinely pleasant and while I don't hate them, I can't bring myself to like or even care the least bit about them... Also their design doesn't help at all. Most if not all of the characters faces are weird and alien-like. It's crazy that I found the 2 dancers at the club the most attractive ladies in the entire game by a wide margin. And the one who follows them is the MC's sister who isn't an LI.
But like I've mentioned before, my feelings on the game give me an unprecedented opportunity to try out a playstyle I've never done before in any AVN. A dickish, selfish, maybe darker and celibate MC who is only out for himself and cares for no one else unless Jess of course
That is exactly one of the reasons I like her. She is a port in the storm of chaos around him. She obviously cares about the MC. She isn't dangerous, and not surrounded by mysteries. Not to mention sweet and supportive.
This one is my fav VN in development at the moment, and like most of us here, I've literally read hundreds. We all have different tastes. I love the writing and the story. I really like the LIs Elea, Fiona and Medb. The bartended Kate, sister Jessica and Kaija do nothing for me. It just goes to show we are all different in our tastes and preferences. One mans junk is another mans treasure.
I hope you find a VN you like
- Aug 20, 2023
- 721
- 2,165
- 376
As far as i know there wont be early Game Overs, so we will be seeing the story play out with all of our wacky choices, the dev has already moaned that some scenes in this update have too may variations
.The elven chapter could have started even more horribly wrong if the elves decided to kidnap the MC or smth like his dad, to "bypass" the "dumb" decision of MC walking into elven territory by himself.
The official LI, is more than an LI, the 4 are integral to the plot, that can seen by forcibly being introduced to Fiona if you keep evading her. While most other games just throw out the girls if you reject their "paths" from the get-go.
Off-topic: that sounds gay.
#3
You must be registered to see the links
I think the writing is solid except in the part of having a relationship already set from the beggining and having to adapt her personality according to just a few key point decisions. Even the author admits it is messed up and if he was to start over he would have it done otherwise. Also, I don't like MC being forced to play a role for templars all the time. It's understandable he would be doing something to rescue his father, but training with templars and going to Neverwhere with Kaija was too forced and unnecessary. It would be possible stumbling with the whole situation that led to the life debt with the elves with another optional set of characters. But the setting and world building is the best I have ever seen here. Only the author was not aware or sensible about the can of worms that Kaija and Templars represented in the life of MC and he keeps taking it too lightly. He himself says he is surprised with the backlash those two received. I know that having parents revealing a hidden legacy to a character is a common trope in fiction to a point that it's normal and expected. Also, having a girfriend who hides a double life that comes to light eventually is quite common and we were all prepared to take it lightly. But the entire conspiracy of her and his parents and the templars make it too heavy to digest and appreciate any of the parts. All in all, the biggest problem is that Kaija and her relationship with MC as something set from the beggining. Giving her a secondary role as someone not important to MC or even not including her as a character at all would have made the experience more enjoyable. The game is good, but I have lots of mixed things about the main characters and it makes the experience something that I take down only with the expectancy of eventually having an opportunity of retribution.
- Aug 20, 2023
- 721
- 2,165
- 376
The Dev said that there will be continuation of the Q&A session with the parents, since their answers were mostly "known" before-hand and didn't go in-depth as to how much have the templars invaded the MC's life, the job, the apartment, the GF. what was the modus operandi if MC decided to go court another girl, how was Jess's security handled, is she also in a "glass prison" like MC probably is, etc. .
But the continuation would happen only if you didn't burn bridges, you will still be able to burn them after the "2nd" Q&A.
I'm not sure what it is. I like the concept and the world but either the Dev is unaware of how people are going to take things or I just take things different from most. I've read that he said he was surprised by the backlash against the Templars but also that the thing with Finn's death, if you're on that path, went down just the way he wanted it to - got just the reaction he was after. For me anyway, Finn's death just compounded my dislike of the Templars. Even Kajia only being the MC's "lifelong friend" or whatever wouldn't have changed much. I might not hate Kajia as much but I'd still hate the Templars.
I feel like we're missing a part of the story where we're supposed to feel drawn to this life, or feel a sense of admiration for the Templars. Like a part where you grew up reading stories about the Templars and pretended to be one when you played with your friends ... something like that. All I felt about it all from the beginning was shock, horror and betrayal - which was then made worse as MC got deeper into it and found out how much they controlled his life, and then when Finn dies - the only paths I see are revenge or getting as far away from it all as you can, as fast as you can go. I don't see a path where you want to be a Templar or help the Templars or get involved with any of it.
Yeah, definitely burned bridges and after Finn definitely wouldn't ever want to talk to them again.
I burned bridges but with the conviction that in a setting where the presence of Templars are so pervasive that would not be enough to be get free from their grasp. MC will be monitored his whole life as he wants to keep the same job and address. Actually bridge burning would only be possible outside the human world, with the elves of elsewhere far from the human settlements in Neverwhere.
Dessolos
Board Buff
- Jul 25, 2017
- 19,937
- 28,144
- 936
I still never played a burnt bridges save haha
You summarized my whole experience. Actually the beggining is full of triggers which created an abhorrent experience. I always thought the game building was superb but I started reading the author's influence (Dresden Files). Almost everything is there in a way or another: Neverwhere, Templars, a carpenter that is the face and image of MC's father, the elves rulers with the same names, those trains in Neverwhere, that bar and the owner and even his personality. The world building is basically a rip off that seemed impressive at first because it was taken from an extensive franchise (novels, comics, board game and even a tv series) that I didn't know before.
Last edited:
I've read a few of the Dresden files books but couldn't really get into it. Maybe that should have been a warning. I wish someone would make a AVN ripoff of Rivers of London.
If you wouldn't like to read 13 + books I would recommend you read the rpg sourcebook as the entire world set is all summarized there.
Last edited:
HornyyPussy
Board Buff
- Apr 26, 2020
- 18,999
- 45,125
- 998
