VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.6.0.2] [Ceolag]

[prpa]

I really don't understand people here, hating Kaija for lying and being deceptive (understandable somewhat), even though she saved the MC’s life, while loving Finn and completely brushing off the fact that he tried to kill him multiple times.

Also hate for the Templars but love for the Elves, even though we don’t even know how the conflict started or who’s actually at fault.

 

[Dessolos]

I really don't understand people here, hating Kaija for lying and being deceptive (understandable somewhat), even though she saved the MC’s life, while loving Finn and completely brushing off the fact that he tried to kill him multiple times.

Also hate for the Templars but love for the Elves, even though we don’t even know how the conflict started or who’s actually at fault.

Yeah I dislike Templars and Elfs equally there is not enough info for me to pick a side. The only reason I can say I like Elfs more is because I only been shown the good side of them for the most part. While the Templars other than, Linnane , Kaija saving the MC and being on our side assuming love path as only been negative. So from that pov it is easier to say I would pick the Elfs especially cause I do have a more of a negative opinion of them for causing Fin's death

tbh only reason Finn becomes more likeable than Kaija to me it doesn't feel like it isn't a good idea to kill her and she warms up to me. But honestly I bet if we weren't in an elven city most people wouldn't like Finn or give her a chance to warm up to them. For me Kaija has more than proven I can trust her tbh especially more than any other Templar , I feel she has earned her forgiveness personally. But some people there is no going back or second chances if it's to big of an offense.

 

[Pixillin']

I really don't understand people here, hating Kaija for lying and being deceptive (understandable somewhat), even though she saved the MC’s life, while loving Finn and completely brushing off the fact that he tried to kill him multiple times.

Also hate for the Templars but love for the Elves, even though we don’t even know how the conflict started or who’s actually at fault.

Kajia didn't just lie. You've known her since childhood and the entire time she was training to be a templar and knew about MC's parents and the templars. She also got close to MC because of orders from the templars (how much of your relationship with her is because of that depends on your route). So your best friend since childhood, and live in girlfriend woke up every day looked you in the eye and lied about absolutely everything. There is no possible way I could ever trust anything she said ever again. I couldn't assume that if she popped out for a loaf of bread that she wasn't actually rushing into a life and death situation. I could also break down all of the ways that, beyond being needlessly deceptive, the templars are, IMO, horrible and actually a bad thing for society. I think every single one of them is individually a horrible person. Oh and Kajia probably wouldn't have had to "save MC" (he saved her during that as well) if anyone had been honest with him about who/what he was - they were not protecting him in any way, he's just been walking around with a target on his back that he didn't know about (Jessica has been doing the same). If anything they were deliberately putting him in increased danger - and based on their powers there is still stuff they're not being honest about.

The Elves - while the introduction to them was ... rude ... after we were past that and MC had proved he wasn't a normal templar, they were kind, honest, informative and helpful. I didn't meet any of them who I didn't like and the only things they wouldn't talk about were current and upcoming missions.

I honestly don't understand how anyone in their right mind would ever speak to Kajia or the parents again under any circumstances. I was even mad that the MC went back to work at the insurance company - since it's a templar front.

 

[pitao]

I really don't understand people here, hating Kaija for lying and being deceptive (understandable somewhat), even though she saved the MC’s life, while loving Finn and completely brushing off the fact that he tried to kill him multiple times.

Also hate for the Templars but love for the Elves, even though we don’t even know how the conflict started or who’s actually at fault.

I have the same view as yours, probably from all the game threads I follow is the one I ignored the most users because of the "hate speech" even if is aimed to fictional characters or factions. I understand that the story is interesting and some elements are polarizing, but to the point of spreading hateful feelings I will never understand. Games should be meant to give fun and constantly give emphase on bad feelings is off putting to read, hence the ignored users. That is also why I rarely post here, I try to restraint myself to put even more fuel into the fire hahaha since I'm afraid of my own latin blood boiling if I start to reply to those.

 

[Dessolos]

I have the same view as yours, probably from all the game threads I follow is the one I ignored the most users because of the "hate speech" even if is aimed to fictional characters or factions. I understand that the story is interesting and some elements are polarizing, but to the point of spreading hateful feelings I will never understand. Games should be meant to give fun and constantly give emphase on bad feelings is off putting to read, hence the ignored users. That is also why I rarely post here, I try to restraint myself to put even more fuel into the fire hahaha.

yeah same here I rarely look at this thread much because of the same reasons and unless im bored I usually will skip any post about Kaija since it's the same thing over and over again. It really turns me off from this thread. That and I hard disagree with alot of the reasons people have for disliking her cause to me it feels like no matter what she does she can never do anything to get back in their good graces other than a few select people that are open to the idea of her redeeming herself.

Not to mention how some hate anyone just because they are a templar when it's really the leadership that should be getting most of the hate unless the person has proven to do something wrong. All the while im willing to bet the Elf's aren't much better they just do a better job of not showing it. I believe the only Elf leader that is any good is the King.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

I really don't understand people here, hating Kaija for lying and being deceptive (understandable somewhat), even though she saved the MC’s life, while loving Finn and completely brushing off the fact that he tried to kill him multiple times.

Also hate for the Templars but love for the Elves, even though we don’t even know how the conflict started or who’s actually at fault.

Likewise, I'm not a fan of either. Finn tried to kill me twice! Not the sort person I want to be near let alone stick my dick in. I don't care if she was 'nice' later on. Maybe we could be friends, but that is it. Kailja has a lot more history with the MC, but what she did... I would never trust her again. I might be able to forgive her if it was a RL situation, but I'd never trust her.

I've always been fascinated by elves as they are usually an ancient race full of magic and wisdom. The Alfar aren't. They are full of distrust and prejudice. So I'm not a fan of their culture even if I want to comfort Medb with wild sexcapades. Seriously though, I don't see the Alfar as any better than the Templars, just more organised. At this stage fault doesn't matter. Its been thousands of years. Time to get over it and move on towards a better future, both of groups.

 

[Knightcvel]

Kajia didn't just lie. You've known her since childhood and the entire time she was training to be a templar and knew about MC's parents and the templars. She also got close to MC because of orders from the templars (how much of your relationship with her is because of that depends on your route). So your best friend since childhood, and live in girlfriend woke up every day looked you in the eye and lied about absolutely everything. There is no possible way I could ever trust anything she said ever again. I couldn't assume that if she popped out for a loaf of bread that she wasn't actually rushing into a life and death situation. I could also break down all of the ways that, beyond being needlessly deceptive, the templars are, IMO, horrible and actually a bad thing for society. I think every single one of them is individually a horrible person. Oh and Kajia probably wouldn't have had to "save MC" (he saved her during that as well) if anyone had been honest with him about who/what he was - they were not protecting him in any way, he's just been walking around with a target on his back that he didn't know about (Jessica has been doing the same). If anything they were deliberately putting him in increased danger - and based on their powers there is still stuff they're not being honest about.

The Elves - while the introduction to them was ... rude ... after we were past that and MC had proved he wasn't a normal templar, they were kind, honest, informative and helpful. I didn't meet any of them who I didn't like and the only things they wouldn't talk about were current and upcoming missions.

I honestly don't understand how anyone in their right mind would ever speak to Kajia or the parents again under any circumstances. I was even mad that the MC went back to work at the insurance company - since it's a templar front.

I am starting to understand Kaija as a confused and ill oriented woman who was influenced by her grandfather to clear the honor of her clan and pointed the Templars as a way to that end. There she was further conditioned to believe they were some sort of protectors of moral, virtue, values, etc. They are like a sect and Kaija was deeply influenced by them. But she is starting to see things more clearly now and I think she will have a deep arch dealing with the contradictions of her beliefs and the reality, as well as how it affects others. As for the templars and the parents, they are too goal oriented to think about sparing others feelings. They are all trained to give their lives, take other lives for something they believe is the greater good so they will sacrifice everyone and break every heart if they believe it's the right thing to do. All in all, I see a path to redemption for Kaija, but for templars I simply can't believe they have the moral standards to be of any use in a redemption path.

 

[pitao]

yeah same here I rarely look at this thread much because of the same reasons and unless im bored I usually will skip any post about Kaija since it's the same thing over and over again. It really turns me off from this thread. That and I hard disagree with alot of the reasons people have for disliking her cause to me it feels like no matter what she does she can never do anything to get back in their good graces other than a few select people that are open to the idea of her redeeming herself.

Not to mention how some hate anyone just because they are a templar when it's really the leadership that should be getting most of the hate unless the person has proven to do something wrong. All the while im willing to bet the Elf's aren't much better they just do a better job of not showing it. I believe the only Elf leader that is any good is the King.

I like Kaija and have my own playthrough save for her like I have for each LI, I'm a completionist so usually explore every path and that way I learn more about the story and lore, I don't really dislike any of the LIs even the side girls. Finn annoyed me at start for being a constant brat even though is older than the MC (I guess elves mature slowly as they age slower? hahaha) and honestly in my first playthrough I killed her on the first opportunity I had hehe but of course I loaded back the save and enjoyed her "redemption" arc, just shows that like IRL that first impressions are misleading sometimes.

But her purpose to the story was mostly that since she got the same fate as I made when killed her "myself". Still didn't played the update, it is next on queue once I finish the game I'm playing.

 

[Pixillin']

I am starting to understand Kaija as a confused and ill oriented woman who was influenced by her grandfather to clear the honor of her clan and pointed the Templars as a way to that end. There she was further conditioned to believe they were some sort of protectors of moral, virtue, values, etc. They are like a sect and Kaija was deeply influenced by them. But she is starting to see things more clearly now and I think she will have a deep arch dealing with the contradictions of her beliefs and the reality, as well as how it affects others. As for the templars and the parents, they are too goal oriented to think about sparing others feelings. They are all trained to give their lives, take other lives for something they believe is the greater good so they will sacrifice everyone and break every heart if they believe it's the right thing to do. All in all, I see a path to redemption for Kaija, but for templars I simply can't believe they have the moral standards to be of any use in a redemption path.

Kajia might have a path to redemption, just not with me. For me it's like finding out someone cheated on you - not once but many, many times over the course of your relationship. She lied too easily, too often and about too many things for me to ever trust her again. The only way it would work is if she left the Templars completely and had no further contact with them - no phone calls, no emails, not even their funerals when they pass. And she'd have to involve a job that involved no late nights, and business trips. I don't think she'd be happy like that, and I wouldn't either really but I could never "just trust her" - given what I know about the Templars, not even twenty years later. So there's really no point in our being together.

I only have one save, so in this update I didn't see or hear from any Templars and (unless the opportunity arises to avenge Finn) I'm happy to keep it that way. I'm unhappy with Jess about the Neverwhere trip, but will be even more unhappy with her if I have to talk to Kajia or the parents as a result of it.

 

[xapican]

pitao ; Oh com' on man, don't let me be the only one with "latin blood"

 

[prpa]

I like Kaija and have my own playthrough save for her like I have for each LI, I'm a completionist so usually explore every path and that way I learn more about the story and lore, I don't really dislike any of the LIs even the side girls. Finn annoyed me at start for being a constant brat even though is older than the MC (I guess elves mature slowly as they age slower? hahaha) and honestly in my first playthrough I killed her on the first opportunity I had hehe but of course I loaded back the save and enjoyed her "redemption" arc, just shows that like IRL that first impressions are misleading sometimes.

But her purpose to the story was mostly that since she got the same fate as I made when killed her "myself". Still didn't played the update, it is next on queue once I finish the game I'm playing.

Yeah, same here, I like both Kaija and Finn. I might’ve felt differently if Kaija’s deception had been revealed later in the game, maybe around the midpoint, after we’d had more time to connect with the characters. That way, the betrayal would’ve hit harder. But since it happened right at the beginning, just as we were getting to know everyone, I didn’t really feel the anger toward her that a lot of other people seem to.

Also, I really like characters like Kaija, she’s not your typical love interest. She comes across as strong and composed on the surface, but underneath, she’s complex and flawed. That makes her feel more real to me.

When it comes to the Templars and the Elves, I don't hate either group, but I definitely find myself suspicious of both. Although, the Templars (leadership at least) do come across as more incompetent.

 

[pitao]

pitao ; Oh com' on man, don't let me be the only one with "latin blood"

hehe, I dunno what is your age is but I can be the only one "latin blood" boomer haha even though I'm really from X generation hehe

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

I like Kaija and have my own playthrough save for her like I have for each LI, I'm a completionist so usually explore every path and that way I learn more about the story and lore, I don't really dislike any of the LIs even the side girls. Finn annoyed me at start for being a constant brat even though is older than the MC (I guess elves mature slowly as they age slower? hahaha) and honestly in my first playthrough I killed her on the first opportunity I had hehe but of course I loaded back the save and enjoyed her "redemption" arc, just shows that like IRL that first impressions are misleading sometimes.

But her purpose to the story was mostly that since she got the same fate as I made when killed her "myself". Still didn't played the update, it is next on queue once I finish the game I'm playing.

I don't like Kaija but I have a save for her path. I'm a completionist if I really like a story. I also like seeing the differences in her path compared to the other paths where I'm usually hostile towards her. It can be quite interesting.

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

hehe, I dunno what is your age is but I can be the only one "latin blood" boomer haha even though I'm really from X generation hehe

You're the right generation then

 

[dojito]

When chapter 5 dropped I was really hesitant to play it, that at the end didn't play it, what a mistake, chapter 5 was a 10/10, then chapter 6 hasn't been that good and I don't think any chapter can come closer the ch5 at this point.

Hopefully i'm mistaken.

 

[Dessolos]

Yeah, same here, I like both Kaija and Finn. I think I might’ve felt differently if Kaija’s deception had been revealed later in the game, maybe around the midpoint, after we’d had more time to connect with the characters. That way, the betrayal would’ve hit harder. But since it happened right at the beginning, just as we were getting to know everyone, I didn’t really feel the same anger toward her that a lot of other people seem to.

Also, I really like characters like Kaija, she’s not your typical love interest. She comes across as strong and composed on the surface, but underneath, she’s complex and flawed. That makes her feel more real to me.

When it comes to the Templars and the Elves, I don't hate either group, but I definitely find myself suspicious of both. Although, the Templars do come across as more incompetent.

Honestly her "betrayal and lies" didn't even feel like one or was even a big deal to me. I kind of brushed off and never thought about it again ( only the MC ever gave it another thought in the story not me) after the reveal and kept romancing her because how much I liked her character from saving us and everything I like about her.

It was only when I came to this thread after my first playthrough I thought about it some when reading other point views and was shocked to find out how big of deal it was for other given how she saved and how it was a secret that wasn't hers to tell. That was when I realized im more of an understanding person than I realized since none of the negatives ever crossed my mind

When chapter 5 dropped I was really hesitant to play it, that at the end didn't play it, what a mistake, chapter 5 was a 10/10, then chapter 6 hasn't been that good and I don't think any chapter can come closer the ch5 at this point.

Hopefully i'm mistaken.

I only played 2 paths. so far but I honestly liked Chapter 6 more than Chapter 5 but that is because I really liked the romance / dates / hangouts with those paths I played and they happen to be my 2 favorite characters and I been looking forward to progress on their romance paths. But yeah from a story telling pov Ch 5 was better. tho I did dislike the start of Ch 6 for sure

 

[xapican]

hehe, I dunno what is your age is but I can be the only one "latin blood" boomer haha even though I'm really from X generation hehe

Nope Gen X as well

 

[Grumpy Old Aussie]

Honestly her "betrayal and lies" didn't even feel like one or was even a big deal to me. I kind of brushed off and never thought about it again ( only the MC ever gave it another thought in the story not me) after the reveal and kept romancing her because how much I liked her character from saving us and everything I like about her.

It was only when I came to this thread after my first playthrough I thought about it some when reading other point views and was shocked to find out how big of deal it was for other given how she saved and how it was a secret that wasn't hers to tell. That was when I realized im more of an understanding person than I realized since none of the negatives ever crossed my mind

That is because you are a nice guy Dess. Wait until you have been battered and bruised by a few women and you will start to see. Life's experience can be brutal when it comes to relationships. I hope you never go through it.

 

[prpa]

Honestly her "betrayal and lies" didn't even feel like one or was even a big deal to me. I kind of brushed off and never thought about it again ( only the MC ever gave it another thought in the story not me) after the reveal and kept romancing her because how much I liked her character from saving us and everything I like about her.

It was only when I came to this thread after my first playthrough I thought about it some when reading other point views and was shocked to find out how big of deal it was for other given how she saved and how it was a secret that wasn't hers to tell. That was when I realized im more of an understanding person than I realized since none of the negatives ever crossed my mind

Yeah, I didn’t find "her lies and betrayal" to be a big deal either. I mentioned that maybe if the reveal had happened at the midpoint of the game, I might’ve felt differently, but honestly, I don’t think I would have. To me, it’s no different than in movies or books when a spouse discovers their partner’s secret identity (like being a secret agent or something). I just don’t care, I still like the character. The whole situation actually reminds me of Stephanie from "Leap of Faith", whom I also liked.

 

[Dessolos]

To me, it’s no different than in movies or books when a spouse discovers their partner’s secret identity (like being a secret agent or something). I just don’t care, I still like the character.

That is exactly how I saw it my first time , that's why her hiding the truth was never an issue for me and her disobeying orders to save the MC gave her some brownie points with me