VN Ren'Py The Neverwhere Tales [v0.6.0.2] [Ceolag]

[Krytax123]

You cut out the part of my post where I clearly state this isn't really a problem for me because I end up using URM to watch all scenes, extracting rpa files to look at all renders and reading the script anyways

I get your point and agree to some extent but if the game gives you choices then it has to account for that. Locking crucial and basic info regarding the plot behind a "right choice" is not just moronic, it's bad design. At that point, just make a kinetic novel if you want to lead the player down a certain path or just give them the illusion of choice. I'm fine with not having access to quite a bit of lore but never such a crazy amount. Again I'm not exaggerating when I say you miss like 90% of the lore and story in my playthrough because the exposition is locked behind having a lot of points with a lot of characters.

Again, I kinda get that but disagree. There is no other way to play this game for me. If I'm gonna play it, it HAS to be this way. Because I literally cannot stomach having to interact with these characters. It is not worth going through that to get the info. It actually makes me feel physically ill watching the MC talk to Kaija and correct her about the term "Elves" being offensive and them preferring the term Alfuck or whatever. It makes me angry and it takes away from my enjoyement of the game. Because I don't like the Elves. I don't respect them. I do not see them as victims and I do not wish to help them or be cordial. I see them as a possible threat to Mankind. I see Kaija and the parents as untrustworthy liars with whom I want no contact with. Elea and Fiona are sadly uninteresting and unattractive to me.

So yeah I'm willing to get no info if it means not having to engage with them. I'll take that trade. All I'm saying is I wish more lore/story exposition was made through other means. Let the MC use the Templar library or the Elfs library when he was there and read some books. Get some knowledge that or any other way. That's all.

I fucking wish!!!
Literally this is what I've wanted since I first started playing. My MC wishes he never got dragged into this shitshow to begin with. But now he's aware of a whole new world beyond his own that could pose a threat to humanity and he can't just sit back and do nothing. I'm playing as a Human Supremacist here I guess

And before I catch hate, let me say I like this game very much! I'm not being a hater or a troll. I'm not fishing for reactions or rage baiting. I've said this from the very moment I first finished a playthrough and posted my first comment on this thread: Game is very good, characters absolutely suck! (IN MY OPINION!!!). it's literally the only flaw I see here. Characters. From the design to backstories and personality. They're just not my cup of tea.

Yoo all good and no hate, i always enjoy to discuss with you lol

And yeah i get your point, in a perfect world we would get other opportunitys to get the intel but well ... as usual there are the limits of branching and so on and maybe the MC will still get the intel otherwise.

 

[Pixillin']

And before I catch hate, let me say I like this game very much! I'm not being a hater or a troll. I'm not fishing for reactions or rage baiting. I've said this from the very moment I first finished a playthrough and posted my first comment on this thread: Game is very good, characters absolutely suck! (IN MY OPINION!!!). it's literally the only flaw I see here. Characters. From the design to backstories and personality. They're just not my cup of tea.

I'm used to catching hate but should probably just unfollow. I want to see how things play out but ... I liked the premise of this, and the introduction definitely got my attention but I agree the characters aren't good, consistent or interesting. It has plot holes you could rive a truck through (and it's still in the early, early stages) and CEO doesn't seemed to have stopped to contemplate how people might react to things.

Like, for example: If you found out your whole life had been a lie and you'd been living in a Truman Show like glass cage, and then you rebelled and walked out of it and found someone who was definitely not part of it and she was murdered by the Templars that - murderous rage could be a possible reaction.

Or even the possibility that you would want absolutely nothing to do with any of the Templars after finding out about the glass cage. (He said himself that he was surprised at how negatively people reacted to the Templars.)

So I should probably just bow out since it pisses people off when I say things like that.

 

[Krytax123]

Not to be a sad little emo bitch, but I'll still play this my way - given the choices I'm allowed, which means I won't go pretend to like Kajia or the Parents again just to get information. My allies are Medb and the Elves. It's sad that the Dev had us do nothing about Finn if we weren't on some kind of Kajia path, and it's sad that Jessica turned out to be unreliable as an ally and an overall liability, but I'll wait for my chances. The upsides of this approach is a) it's still honorable. I'm not sneaking about, deceiving people and operating under false pretenses and b) As far as my MC knows Finn's murder was officially sanctioned, so I can safely take revenge on any or all of them if the opportunity arises. (Jess did say she'd find out what happened, but she just ghosted on that one.) I have no intention of leading the Templars or fixing the Templars. That was never part of the plan.

What are you? Some honorable knight (templar?)?

Its not dishonorable to get an overview about a situation, even when you completly forgive everyone, the mc stays very critical of the templars. You dont have to hug them and forgive everything, you can be confrontional and still dont burn bridges to a degree which puts you in a bad position because you sacrificed you potential influence for nothing.

Even if its just to avenge your darling fin, its smarter to investigate the templars which is easier with inside information. The mc is still confrontional and doesnt act like he is fine with their actions so i dont see the big deal?

Even if you just want to destroy the templars, its better to get a view and information of your possible enemy.

 

[Pixillin']

What are you? Some honorable knight (templar?)?

Its not dishonorable to get an overview about a situation, even when you completly forgive everyone, the mc stays very critical of the templars. You dont have to hug them and forgive everything, you can be confrontional and still dont burn bridges to a degree which puts you in a bad position because you sacrificed you potential influence for nothing.

Even if its just to avenge your darling fin, its smarter to investigate the templars which is easier with inside information. The mc is still confrontional and doesnt act like he is fine with their actions so i dont see the big deal?

Even if you just want to destroy the templars, its better to get a view and information of your possible enemy.

Except I'd still be there under false pretenses - unless I came out and told them that I hated them all individually and the organization as a whole, especially after coming back. I just wanted to burn everything down.

 

[Daermon420]

He said himself that he was surprised at how negatively people reacted to the Templars.

I'm honestly surprised to hear this because I'm struggling to think of a single redeemable thing about most of the templars. I don't hate Kaija, she gets a lot of leeway from me for the lies simply because she saved the MCs ass when he really needed it. But other than Kaija and Linnae every other templar we meet is basically an asshole. Steroid Kevin, the other council members, the bitch that provoked the fight and stabbed Finn in the back, your parents who lied to you your entire life.

It's like they were written to be deliberately unlikeable.

 

[Dessolos]

I'm honestly surprised to hear this because I'm struggling to think of a single redeemable thing about most of the templars. I don't hate Kaija, she gets a lot of leeway from me for the lies simply because she saved the MCs ass when he really needed it. But other than Kaija and Linnae every other templar we meet is basically an asshole. Steroid Kevin, the other council members, the bitch that provoked the fight and stabbed Finn in the back, your parents who lied to you your entire life.

It's like they were written to be deliberately unlikeable.

I honestly don't find the Templars unlikeable nor likeable either. I feel only 1 of them has really been an asshole throughout the whole game to me. To me they are just a faction that does shitty things for shitty reasons. But I do agree the way they are portrayed feels like you aren't meant to like them either.

 

[Pixillin']

I'm honestly surprised to hear this because I'm struggling to think of a single redeemable thing about most of the templars. I don't hate Kaija, she gets a lot of leeway from me for the lies simply because she saved the MCs ass when he really needed it. But other than Kaija and Linnae every other templar we meet is basically an asshole. Steroid Kevin, the other council members, the bitch that provoked the fight and stabbed Finn in the back, your parents who lied to you your entire life.

It's like they were written to be deliberately unlikeable.

He said it, or something like it, in an ask the dev thing he did awhile back. BTW Kajia gets no leway from me because a) she wouldn't have had to save you if she hadn't lied to you for years b) you save her too when she fails and the last of the mercenaries is about to take her out and c) she did a crappy, crappy job as your "bodyguard" - not only did she not prepare you to defend yourself, she wasn't there often enough to do it either.

 

[Dessolos]

BTW Kajia gets no leway from me because a) she wouldn't have had to save you if she hadn't lied to you for years

as much as I do like Kaija this is the only part I disagree with the most. Cause even if the MC known about everything who is say he would been strong enough to defend himself or he even wanted to join the Templars or even train for that matter. It could have played out the same even if he known about the secrets. There is no way to predict how it would of changed if he had known it could of gone in so many different directions.

The only thing that would of changed is the MC being aware of the situation but doesn't mean he would of handled in a better way either without some help. He would of been more accepting of some extra help and bodyguards at least. I still think Kaija would of needed to help protect the MC at the very least.

 

[Daermon420]

He said it, or something like it, in an ask the dev thing he did awhile back. BTW Kajia gets no leway from me because a) she wouldn't have had to save you if she hadn't lied to you for years b) you save her too when she fails and the last of the mercenaries is about to take her out and c) she did a crappy, crappy job as your "bodyguard" - not only did she not prepare you to defend yourself, she wasn't there often enough to do it either.

I agree with most of this except b) Yeah, the mc saves her as well but if she hadn't shown up he'd have been toast and c). That'd I'd blame mostly on the templars and his parents. She couldn't train him without letting him know why she was giving him combat training, or how she knows that stuff to begin with. At least not without giving up the secrets she was ordered to keep. And she wasn't around so often because the templars kept sending her on missions. Which was really fucking stupid of them, a bodyguard should, you know, be guarding that person.

 

[Pixillin']

I agree with most of this except a) Yeah, the mc saves her as well but if she hadn't shown up he'd have been toast and c). That'd I'd blame mostly on the templars and his parents. She couldn't train him without letting him know why she was giving him combat training, or how she knows that stuff to begin with. At least not without giving up the secrets she was ordered to keep. And she wasn't around so often because the templars kept sending her on missions. Which was really fucking stupid of them, a bodyguard should, you know, be guarding that person.

as much as I do like Kaija this is the only part I disagree with. Cause even if the MC known about everything who is say he would been strong enough to defend himself or he even wanted to join the Templars or even train for that matter. It could have played out the same even if he known about the secrets. There is no way to predict how it would of changed if he had known it could of gone in so many different directions.

The only thing that would of changed is the MC being aware of the situation but doesn't mean he would of handled in a better way either without some help. He would of been more accepting of some extra help and bodyguards at least. I still think Kaija would of needed to help protect the MC at the very least.

All good. Not going to argue the point, just that she gets no leway at all from me. I'm just as angry at her as the parents because - four people you should be able to count on, without question, are your mom, your dad, your spouse/gf/whatever and your best friend - All four of those failed hard, I mean - their point of view doesn't even make sense, it's either stupid and incompetent thinking or they're still lying. Anyway, Kajia was two of those things. She had a choice to make, and she made it - fair enough but she shouldn't expect any sympathy / empathy for me after choosing the Templars instead.

Edit: P.S. Linea can fuck right off too. She had a husband and child and she chose the Templars over her child. She deserves to be lonely and miserable.

 

[Dessolos]

She had a choice to make, and she made it - fair enough but she shouldn't expect any sympathy / empathy for me after choosing the Templars instead.

I will say to be fair to Kaija ( unsure about the hate path) but she wanted the MC to hate her for her decision. So it's kind of why she didn't even try to make it right or tell him earlier and she went with the flow and the lies. So that kind of made me regain even more trust in her.

Since to me that line felt more like she didn't want the MC to join the Templars or be apart of them and be put in danger. As I think she always known they were flawed and not a great faction but her family ties and trying to regain their honor pushed her to join them. So I see as someone that still cares for the MC on the Love and Friend path at least.

At least that's the way I saw things I could be totally wrong.

 

[xapican]

( unsure about the hate path)

I don't know either, since I refused to have contact with her after MC s father got back.
on that path I mean, I don't remember if it is on the Fiona or Elea path.

 

[Pixillin']

I don't know either, since I refused to have contact with her after MC s father got back.
on that path I mean, I don't remember if it is on the Fiona or Elea path.

Yeah, I never got the family explanation either but even if I had I would have told her that she certainly had no honor or courage. You don't betray your best friend for honor.

 

[kazeiheikaya]

But let's not beat a dead horse, we've already discussed this. I agree with some of the points people made, disagree with others, and I still like Kaija the best

yah I was just initially replying, as said free to like what you like homie.
Similar for me, I find Fiona/Helena to be the best, but I'm sure people disagree with that too. I think Fiona is probably one of the best models I've seen throughout even. Great features on her. Though Kaija isn't a bad model either, but to me she's just on the lower side, definitely alot of diversity atleast rather than just the same face with 8 different hairstyles

 

[Dessolos]

I don't know either, since I refused to have contact with her after MC s father got back.
on that path I mean, I don't remember if it is on the Fiona or Elea path.

My hate Kaija path is Medb not sure if I will burn bridges with the parents maybe. Cause man first time seeing burn the bridges scenes ( I finally saw it today) was kind of tough for me to watch. I felt bad for the parents I mean I understand why people dislike them or burnt the bridges with the parents. But the way the MC yells at them was a bit much for me tbh but then again im just not that type of person either.

Kind of funny how I have no issue with an MC being an asshole , aggressive , a monster or murder etc in video games but it hits differently when I play a AVN I find it tough just to be an asshole on a MC at times. Tho it does depend on who he is being an asshole towards.

 

[xapican]

My hate Kaija path is Medb not sure if I will burn bridges with the parents maybe. Cause man first time seeing burn the bridges scenes ( I finally saw it today) was kind of tough for me to watch. I felt bad for the parents I mean I understand why people dislike them or burnt the bridges with the parents. But the way the MC yells at them was a bit much for me tbh but then again im just not that type of person either.

Kind of funny how I have no issue with an MC being an asshole , aggressive , a monster or murder etc in video games but it hits differently when I play a AVN I find it tough just to be an asshole on a MC at times. Tho it does depend on who he is being an asshole towards.

I played the Burn the Bridges differently, (agree with you that MC is throwing a tantrum and acting like a spoiled brat) so i went with calm responses, and at the end I said no more contact.
seemed more logical for me as how I wanted my MC to be.

 

[Knightcvel]

Well, the chain of events leaves a lot to the imagination of the player,
after the Fireball, she is thrown backwards, MC finds her, with her head resting on the borderstone of the sidewalk (Bordstein in German) seems that she injuried her head there, they could have opened her skull to drain blood or to relive pressure of her skull, surgery often done after car accidents.
and ok this are all facts which I've come up with and which would sound more or less logic, and consitent with the images, if this is like this I don't know the only one who knows is Ceo.
but it sounds plausible, I know this is not enough for your critical thinking, it is just an explanation I've come up with after replaying the sequence.
Good thing this brought the long haired man in the background to my attention,

Her parents are saying that she doesn't have any physical damage and therefore should not be in a coma. It seems to be a reaction to the sudden magical power surge.

 

[xapican]

Her parents are saying that she doesn't have any physical damage and therefore should not be in a coma. It seems to be a reaction to the sudden magical power surge.

Wasn't that the Doc ? who is speaking to the Parents ? as he is giving them an overview of her health status ?
Edit: the head injury is a mere assumption from me, in an attempt to make an explanation as why her head is shaved.

 

[Knightcvel]

Wasn't that the Doc ? who is speaking to the Parents ? as he is giving them an overview of her health status ?
Edit: the head injury is a mere assumption from me, in an attempt to make an explanation as why her head is shaved.

It's shaved because her hair was all burned, but according to the doctor or her parents, she doesn't sustained any injury. It's all magic related. I think when she will awake she will be even more powerful.

 

[Knightcvel]

Also, I remember that line where they were rescuing MC father and the Ice Queen gazed into her and said something like "How much wasted potential". In the same moment, she did the same to MC and he resisted her probing and even was able to see fragments of her mind, which implies he is even more powerful than Jess.