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Ren'Py The Null Hypothesis [v0.8c] [Ron Chon]

4.60 star(s) 156 Votes
Discussion Reviews (156)
salscou

salscou

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sleepingkirby said:
Sorry, I should have made that more clear. The change I would make wont' be any different than the dev's implementation. If there's too much data, cheat or not, it won't be implemented. Basically, if someone's willing to be the guinea pig and do some extensive testing, that might encourage the change to happen, dev or cheat-wise. This isn't the kind of change that RonChon nor even I, an actual programmer, would know the change's full extent and influence without, at least, a good amount of testing.

TLDR; The change I can suggest would be, virtually, the same change RonChon would make. Unless someone volunteers to try it out it's very hard to know what the practical effects this change would cause. Basically, do you want it bad enough to be subject number 1 because it might not happen otherwise.
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sleepingkirby said:
"Flags" look like this in code:
Code: 
./characters/Rogue/events/relationship/first_sex.rpy:343:        $ Rogue.History.update("sex")
Code: 
./characters/Rogue/events/relationship/boyfriend.rpy:616:    $ Rogue.History.update("started_relationship")
OroroMunroe has no dating flag at this point. Here are all the instances where Ororo's flags are updated.
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This sounds like minutia but it's actually really important.

It's a numerical threshold check. Meaning, you can get into the threshold and to be able to pass the check, but if you then make her mad prior to the event, you still won't get the scene. The problem is, there are very limited scenes that you have an opportunity to get Ororo's love and trust up to said threshold prior to the shadow king event and there are a few chances to make her dislike you so there's very little room (if any) for error. And one of opportunities only happens if you're under the academic scholarship. Basically, be a kind, mature and empathetic person in front of Ororo and have a genuine interest in academics and Ororo, a professor who likes kind, mature and empathetic people will respond in kind.
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The_Man_With_No_Name said:
I mean, it behaves something akin to a flag since that dialogue is required to be checked regardless of your approval with her in order to get that condition. It's just that it also requires said approval in order to activate and stay active.
Is that more or less correct?
Or is the dialogue choice not required at all?
Seems to be needed since this is choice 1
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Please explain the mumbo jumbo for my brain that does not understand code wizardry, what exactly changed the outcome?
 
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The_Man_With_No_Name

The_Man_With_No_Name

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sleepingkirby said:
"Flags" look like this in code:
Code: 
./characters/Rogue/events/relationship/first_sex.rpy:343:        $ Rogue.History.update("sex")
Code: 
./characters/Rogue/events/relationship/boyfriend.rpy:616:    $ Rogue.History.update("started_relationship")
OroroMunroe has no dating flag at this point. Here are all the instances where Ororo's flags are updated.
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This sounds like minutia but it's actually really important.

It's a numerical threshold check. Meaning, you can get into the threshold and to be able to pass the check, but if you then make her mad prior to the event, you still won't get the scene. The problem is, there are very limited scenes that you have an opportunity to get Ororo's love and trust up to said threshold prior to the shadow king event and there are a few chances to make her dislike you so there's very little room (if any) for error. And one of opportunities only happens if you're under the academic scholarship. Basically, be a kind, mature and empathetic person in front of Ororo and have a genuine interest in academics and Ororo, a professor who likes kind, mature and empathetic people will respond in kind.
Click to expand...
I'm not seeing a particular approval threshold. It seems to be that once you select that choice, it's on. Or am I missing something?
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I don't think there are any interactions with her between these two. Might have missed something.
 
The_Man_With_No_Name

The_Man_With_No_Name

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salscou said:
Please explain the mumbo jumbo for my brain that does not understand code wizardry, what exactly changed the outcome?
Click to expand...
The wave function of the outcome became set in a state after we measured it. We fucked up. Now Storm hates us. Sorry guys.:cry:
:LOL:

Anyway, pick that choice. Outside of that I don't know if there are approval checks or what the numbers specifically are. Doesn't hurt to say things she likes throughout ch1. Dialogue rollback is cool.:cool:
 
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salscou

salscou

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The_Man_With_No_Name said:
The wave function of the outcome became set in a state after we measured it. We fucked up. Now Storm hates us. Sorry guys.:cry:
:LOL:

Anyway, pick that choice. Outside of that I don't know if there are approval checks or what the numbers specifically are. Doesn't hurt to say things she likes throughout ch1. Dialogue rollback is cool.:cool:
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I didnt hit on her on that moment but still got it on.

1763216478537.png
 
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sleepingkirby

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The_Man_With_No_Name said:
I mean, it behaves something akin to a flag
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That's the thing. In games, flags aren't (with very few exceptions) unraised. Once you trigger/raise them, they stay raised. Think of it like semaphores in real life. If someone sees you raising a flag and then set it down, their idea is not that it was raised but then you changed your mind. It's that the signal is raised and the appropriate action needs to be taken. (By the way, semaphores are where the idea of flags in computing came from.) Not only that, the conditions determine whether not a flag is raised. Like let's take the original Sonic 2 bonus level for example (that half pipe thing). You have to get x amount of rings at the end of the level. Only then do you get the chaos emerald. You can get above the threshold, but then lose enough to be below the threshold before the end of the level to not get the chaos emerald. Once you have said chaos emerald, you can't lose it. The ring x amounts are the threshold, the chaos emerald is the flag.

The_Man_With_No_Name said:
since that dialogue is required to be checked regardless of your approval with her in order to get that condition. It's just that it also requires said approval in order to activate and stay active.
Is that more or less correct?
Click to expand...
Technically, but there's an asterisk for that.

That's actually not what that code is saying. The full code is here:
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The_Man_With_No_Name said:
Or is the dialogue choice not required at all?
Seems to be needed since this is choice 1
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In short. Flags are usually (with very, very, VERY few exceptions) things that are raised once and never un-raised. Points for thresholds move up and down quite freely.
 
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The_Man_With_No_Name

The_Man_With_No_Name

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pepplez said:
Why even bother about Storm before chapter 2 is released?
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Make pretty choices; pretty lady gives kiss. Magic scribles say so,
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sleepingkirby said:
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That's what I was missing. (y)
I saw the threshold label but not any specific number so I assumed that there wasn't one and it just acted as an ad hoc flag.
 
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sleepingkirby

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salscou said:
Odd, i dont remember choosing that, i remember choosing the polite first option, maybe i misclicked or am remembering wrong then.
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Well, if you've cheated, or artificially increased Ororo's love and trust to at or above 125, you'll still get the scene. That's why I kept harping on that that dialogue is not a flag. There aren't enough points to raise love and trust with Ororo prior to the event to reach that threshold of 125.
 
salscou

salscou

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sleepingkirby said:
Well, if you've cheated, or artificially increased Ororo's love and trust to at or above 125, you'll still get the scene. That's why I kept harping on that that dialogue is not a flag. There aren't enough points to raise love and trust with Ororo prior to the event to reach that threshold of 125.
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No i didnt use any cheat codes, i have no idea how it could have happened then, if any of you guys wanna take a look i can share it.
 
LordPancitoFresco

LordPancitoFresco

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pepplez said:
Why even bother about Storm before chapter 2 is released?
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Clearly is gonna come up later again. I suspect her love and trust values will start at different amounts depending on if it happened, along with dialogue that reference the kiss as well. I can already see her possibly being hard to convince into a relationship since she is a teacher and "it would be innapropriate" and have Null go "Well we already kissed so... bla bla bla" or something along those lines
 
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pepplez

pepplez

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LordPancitoFresco said:
Clearly is gonna come up later again. I suspect her love and trust values will start at different amounts depending on if it happened, along with dialogue that reference the kiss as well. I can already see her possibly being hard to convince into a relationship since she is a teacher and "it would be innapropriate" and have Null go "Well we already kissed so... bla bla bla" or something along those lines
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Yes, that would be a real downer for me (subjectively), and I was surprised that Storm kissed him at all. I assumed it was part of the plot and that Farouk seemed to be responsible for it. However, that is negated when Storm said she wanted to do it on her own... Whatever, we'll see.

By the way, do we have to spoiler talks like this now?
 
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The_Man_With_No_Name

The_Man_With_No_Name

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salscou said:
No i didnt use any cheat codes, i have no idea how it could have happened then, if any of you guys wanna take a look i can share it.
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I've never used cheats for Ororo, but always pick that choice along with all the optimum choices and having academics focus so I have 125 love with her. Just checked.

Anyway, you can drop a save if you want. Doesn't matter. You got it in the end.

Edit: That choice auto gives you 125 love. Just checked
 
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4.60 star(s) 156 Votes