VN Ren'Py The Roommate [v0.11.11] [togs]

[togs-games]

It's always good to hear reasoned discussion about these things, without people ranting!

I really haven't got much clue about the BDSM stuff - 50 Shades is the obvious reference and I know the bare bones of Story of O, but it goes further than I would want to take things with Lois (or whoever).

So I'm definitely open to suggestions - would ask people to consider using the spoiler mechanism if appropriate.

While I have a clear idea of the general story arcs for characters, the devil is in the details. The reason for the last minute switch in Lois's stated plan to go to Florida - originally intended for a LactoMax free path for her - was changed because I belatedly realized that would break a key storyline.

It's fun doing the varying paths but things have to converge somewhat now and again to keep things manageable.

And there are things that simply don't work out, like my "brilliant" idea of making choosing MC's age at the beginning!

 

[Maviarab]

It's always good to hear reasoned discussion about these things, without people ranting!

I really haven't got much clue about the BDSM stuff - 50 Shades is the obvious reference and I know the bare bones of Story of O, but it goes further than I would want to take things with Lois (or whoever).

So I'm definitely open to suggestions - would ask people to consider using the spoiler mechanism if appropriate.

While I have a clear idea of the general story arcs for characters, the devil is in the details. The reason for the last minute switch in Lois's stated plan to go to Florida - originally intended for a LactoMax free path for her - was changed because I belatedly realized that would break a key storyline.

It's fun doing the varying paths but things have to converge somewhat now and again to make things manageable.

And there are things that simply don't work out, like my "brilliant" idea of making choosing MC's age at the beginning!

I'd be happy to help with ideas/advice regarding actual BDSM and primarily a D/s relationship (which is where the MC and Lois seem to be heading). I do think going down that path would change the game into something else though which I also think it shouldn't. As has been said, if it doesn't change your story/plot...then the MC should definitely be involved in the training and not a bystander. That's not really how it's done (unless she a complete slave and not a sub...slave training is different to submissive, no one else can train 'your' sub...just doesn't really work). However, on the sub route, there is still romance, respect, intimacy...all the marks of a true 24/7 D/s relationship..which perhaps on that route could be explored more as there really are very, very few VN's that actually explore that properly.

Feel free to message though if you want to bounce some ideas for that aspect.

 

[togs-games]

Talking of age, I'm going to ask people for help with something.

I think we're all agreed that MC is somewhere in his thirties and we've established Mallory is about six years older than him.

We know Kayla just turned twenty-one and Rei is probably not much older. In fact, they can't be, or they'd be facing aging out of The Foundation.

In my mind, Kari is maybe twenty three or twenty four, and Lois is probably closer to thirty.

Anyone have strong view on any of that and/or want to help pin down some of the others?

There are birthdays to consider. Maybe I just specify the day and month, not the year?

 

[Maviarab]

Talking of age, I'm going to ask people for help with something.

I think we're all agreed that MC is somewhere in his thirties and we've established Mallory is about six years older than him.

We know Kayla just turned twenty-one and Rei is probably not much older. In fact, they can't be, or they'd be facing aging out of The Foundation.

In my mind, Kari is maybe twenty three or twenty four, and Lois is probably closer to thirty.

Anyone have strong view on any of that and/or want to help pin down some of the others?

There are birthdays to consider. Maybe I just specify the day and month, not the year?

All sounds reasonable, espcially Lois.

Would agree with your general ages of the rest. I've never really thought about anyone's age much in detail in all honesty, I would say, unless for whatever story reason it needs spcifically stating, does it matter all that much in the grand scheme of things?

 

[tripod70]

Talking of age, I'm going to ask people for help with something.

I think we're all agreed that MC is somewhere in his thirties and we've established Mallory is about six years older than him.

We know Kayla just turned twenty-one and Rei is probably not much older. In fact, they can't be, or they'd be facing aging out of The Foundation.

In my mind, Kari is maybe twenty three or twenty four, and Lois is probably closer to thirty.

Anyone have strong view on any of that and/or want to help pin down some of the others?

There are birthdays to consider. Maybe I just specify the day and month, not the year?

I think your good with just a day of the month. Other than that I think it will get complicated to do, and keep up with

 

[xapican]

Talking of age, I'm going to ask people for help with something.

I think we're all agreed that MC is somewhere in his thirties and we've established Mallory is about six years older than him.

We know Kayla just turned twenty-one and Rei is probably not much older. In fact, they can't be, or they'd be facing aging out of The Foundation.

In my mind, Kari is maybe twenty three or twenty four, and Lois is probably closer to thirty.

Anyone have strong view on any of that and/or want to help pin down some of the others?

There are birthdays to consider. Maybe I just specify the day and month, not the year?

The perception of age is for me subjective, I think with day and Month it is ok.
with subjective I mean I percive, the MC as around 28 but you guys put him in his mid 30 this in an example, if I'm not mistaken you named at least the age of the girls which had the interview,

 

[Emelex]

Talking of age, I'm going to ask people for help with something.

I think we're all agreed that MC is somewhere in his thirties and we've established Mallory is about six years older than him.

We know Kayla just turned twenty-one and Rei is probably not much older. In fact, they can't be, or they'd be facing aging out of The Foundation.

In my mind, Kari is maybe twenty three or twenty four, and Lois is probably closer to thirty.

Anyone have strong view on any of that and/or want to help pin down some of the others?

There are birthdays to consider. Maybe I just specify the day and month, not the year?

As far as I know, Cooper is ~30, and Kari and her sisters are all three or four years younger than him, if I read the story right so far.

 

[Master of Puppets]

In my mind, Kari is maybe twenty three or twenty four, and Lois is probably closer to thirty.

I figured they were a little closer than that, since they knew each other at the foundation. Though Lois has been with the company for a few years, while Kari just started. That would be a little odd if they were exactly the same age. I am a little surprised that Kari is as old as that considering that she's only just started working. Same with Kayla; I'd missed that her birthday just gone was her 21st, I thought that she was a couple years younger than that. What have they been doing before they started with the company?

 

[togs-games]

I'm going to fudge and say they were in college!

To be honest, I would have had Kayla just turn 18, but I don't want to risk falling foul of legal issues, so 21 it is.

 

[Master of Puppets]

I'm going to fudge and say they were in college!

To be honest, I would have had Kayla just turn 18, but I don't want to risk falling foul of legal issues, so 21 it is.

Eh, we don't do anything with her before her birthday, do we? "Just turned 18" is the standard for young girls in games. If you did retcon them to be 18 I'm quite sure you wouldn't get into any trouble. Especially not legal trouble, people only do that for Patreon's sake anyway. It would feel a bit more fitting to me, I mean when I look at her and Rei, I don't think "university-educated professional" with the things they get up to. They could just be really immature for their age though, the main thing is to decide on ages for everyone and stick to them. That probably ought to include the MC as well, like you said having his age choose-able was a bit of a mistake.

 

[ReallyNotTimmy]

I had some fun with the MC’s age. I made him 60. Kari complained to Pete he was way too old for her. But the pheromones wore her down just the same.

 

[togs-games]

Eh, we don't do anything with her before her birthday, do we? "Just turned 18" is the standard for young girls in games. If you did retcon them to be 18 I'm quite sure you wouldn't get into any trouble. Especially not legal trouble, people only do that for Patreon's sake anyway. It would feel a bit more fitting to me, I mean when I look at her and Rei, I don't think "university-educated professional" with the things they get up to. They could just be really immature for their age though, the main thing is to decide on ages for everyone and stick to them. That probably ought to include the MC as well, like you said having his age choose-able was a bit of a mistake.

I wouldn't be averse to making it 18 instead, but there's also the issue of her ordering drinks on karaoke night, although Maddie ignores the fact she's "21 tomorrow"

 

[gregers]

I really haven't got much clue about the BDSM stuff - 50 Shades is the obvious reference and I know the bare bones of Story of O, but it goes further than I would want to take things with Lois (or whoever).

So I'm definitely open to suggestions - would ask people to consider using the spoiler mechanism if appropriate.

The Story of O is on the extreme end, sure. There's a ton of literature to explore for those interested, but a more obvious pop-culture reference for a romantic D/s relationship in the workplace might be the movie Secretary, although Maggie Gyllenhaal and James Spader are not quite identical to our Lois and MC. It's not perfect but certainly better than 50 Shades, admittedly a low bar.

And there are things that simply don't work out, like my "brilliant" idea of making choosing MC's age at the beginning!

Hey, it was a solid idea and helped to allow us to define the MC for ourselves. The cracks just started appearing once you introduced more characters/elements from the MC's backstory.

I've been playing the MC as a man in his mid-fourties, and just ignored the bits that didn't fit. But of course that becomes harder to do as more of his past relationships become defined by the story.

 

[PyoT]

50 Shades is good inspiration if you're going for being an abusive creep and shitty writing, but it should never be regarded as anything beyond that.

As for the age thing ... yeah, never really thought too hard about it. Without going into any specifics the game goes on about, around 30 ... ish. Vaguely. For most characters. I guess for me that's just sorta the perception of people starting out in their careers and such, which roughly seems to be the place where most characters are (not all of course).

 

[Remembrance]

He mentioned that to Lois as an example of something that she might have seen. It being something mainstream is the entire point. And when she said she had heard of it but not seen it, he says that she didn't miss much. You are grossly misinterpreting that conversation.

I don't believe that there was any indication of that at all.

Like I said, I was biased about 50 shades

I don't believe that there was any indication of that at all.

But if you look at how their relationship goes, all the dialogue with lois, dialogue of
MC about what to do about lois, you see multiple indications of that fact. I'd love to quote, but I deleted the game, including scripts after playing.
But the contract conversation was very obvious he had never done anything like that & lois had to be the one who downloaded something from the net & changed it to suit their circumstances.
He's experienced in bed, but not so much with holding a leash after writing a contract defining limits

I'd be happy to help with ideas/advice regarding actual BDSM and primarily a D/s relationship (which is where the MC and Lois seem to be heading). I do think going down that path would change the game into something else though which I also think it shouldn't. As has been said, if it doesn't change your story/plot...then the MC should definitely be involved in the training and not a bystander. That's not really how it's done (unless she a complete slave and not a sub...slave training is different to submissive, no one else can train 'your' sub...just doesn't really work). However, on the sub route, there is still romance, respect, intimacy...all the marks of a true 24/7 D/s relationship..which perhaps on that route could be explored more as there really are very, very few VN's that actually explore that properly.

Feel free to message though if you want to bounce some ideas for that aspect.

It's hard to standardize kinks like D/s, so the sub/slave divide is not really that black & white.
A sub interested in swinging/sharing may enjoy encounters with other ppl while a 24/7 TPE 'slave' might have it set as a hard limit.
It basically depends on the individuals & what they are comfortable with, not based on a sub vs slave divide.
'slave' in itself is not really a different type of relationship from sub, but more like a kink similar to 'Daddy'.
It's a concept about ownership that can be pushed as far as the involved individuals want.
"As She's Told" does a ok job of exploring such a mindset in the subs pov chapters about her anxiety over her dom not having enough control/ownership.

Tl;Dr: do not worry about what a sub or slave relationship is, just organically grow the MC-subs relationships to whatever you are comfortable writting, since it's very much based on personal taste/preferences.
Oh, and feel free to add me to the conversation if you need more minds to bounce ideas off.
Always happy to help with a better potrayal of BDSM relationships
togs-games

I've been playing the MC as a man in his mid-fourties, and just ignored the bits that didn't fit. But of course that becomes harder to do as more of his past relationships become defined by the story.

Same lol. I had early 40s, but the picture of MC+Kari started the cracks in that setting.

I'd say have MC in late 30s. Kari early 20s & Lois late 20s.
The picture is still kinda against it though.
Anyway, since the story is going into the past so much, I'd say it's better to work out the ages exactly so it doesn't need to be edited again as more of the past is revealed & defined.
Think of the story you have, about the past in the plot & work it out accordingly.

 

[Master of Puppets]

The Story of O is on the extreme end, sure. There's a ton of literature to explore for those interested, but a more obvious pop-culture reference for a romantic D/s relationship in the workplace might be the movie Secretary, although Maggie Gyllenhaal and James Spader are not quite identical to our Lois and MC. It's not perfect but certainly better than 50 Shades, admittedly a low bar.

How well knows is that compared to 50 Shades though? The whole point is that it's something that Lois is likely to have heard of. He's not telling her to go watch something, he's asking if she's already familiar with something. On that front, I don't think that anything else would work as well. It's not supposed to be identical to Lois and MC's situation, it's supposed to be something to see if she has an idea of what D/s is.

But if you look at how their relationship goes, all the dialogue with lois, dialogue of
MC about what to do about lois, you see multiple indications of that fact.

No, you don't. At no point is he unsure about what he's doing at all. There's no hesitation, no doubt, as soon as she agrees to trying a submissive relationship he immediately starts her first lesson with confidence. And "I would quote some examples of this, but I delete the game lol"? Please.

 

[gregers]

How well knows is that compared to 50 Shades though? The whole point is that it's something that Lois is likely to have heard of. He's not telling her to go watch something, he's asking if she's already familiar with something. On that front, I don't think that anything else would work as well. It's not supposed to be identical to Lois and MC's situation, it's supposed to be something to see if she has an idea of what D/s is.

I wasn't responding to that conversation, but to togs mentioning their own limited frame of reference. Of course 50 Shades (for all its faults) is a more obvious reference point for the MC to bring up when talking to Lois.

 

[Maviarab]

It's hard to standardize kinks like D/s, so the sub/slave divide is not really that black & white.
A sub interested in swinging/sharing may enjoy encounters with other ppl while a 24/7 TPE 'slave' might have it set as a hard limit.
It basically depends on the individuals & what they are comfortable with, not based on a sub vs slave divide.
'slave' in itself is not really a different type of relationship from sub, but more like a kink similar to 'Daddy'.
It's a concept about ownership that can be pushed as far as the involved individuals want.
"As She's Told" does a ok job of exploring such a mindset in the subs pov chapters about her anxiety over her dom not having enough control/ownership.

Tl;Dr: do not worry about what a sub or slave relationship is, just organically grow the MC-subs relationships to whatever you are comfortable writting, since it's very much based on personal taste/preferences.
Oh, and feel free to add me to the conversation if you need more minds to bounce ideas off.
Always happy to help with a better potrayal of BDSM relationships

I have over 30 years experience in this....there is a difference between the two, a big difference.

 

[criestoomuch]

...

There are birthdays to consider. Maybe I just specify the day and month, not the year?

I know it's not what you asked exactly but it would be cool if each of the K4 girls was born in a different season. Kari in the spring because she's the perfect genetic match. And spring is all about rebirth. Kara could be summer as she seems to be closest to Kari and summer follows spring. Kira could be fall as she has been shown to be the most responsible. I don't have anything associating Kiri with winter.

There are far more drawbacks to giving exact birth years than there are benefits.

 

[SHER!FF]

Human cows and Shakespeare? Such variety. "It is like a barber's chair that fits all buttocks, the pin-buttock, the quatch-buttock, the brawn-buttock, or any buttock."