VN Ren'Py Abandoned The Sexy Cosplay Cafe [v0.30] [Novus]

Revo

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Jun 18, 2017
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200
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Have you actually seen the art being used in a lot of games that have quite a bit of support? I have and I can tell you that the stuff I'm using is well over the quality in a lot of them. It's also still better than using 3d models, in my opinion (I used Daz3d for my other project). Perhaps you don't personally care for it, but I actually did run it past a fair few people before I started using it in the game. I also only resorted to doing it this way because the other options were worse. I don't have the money/backing to commission the artwork, I do not know any artists that would be willing to work an an adult project, I refused to work with artists I don't know after having been burned to many times by assholes that never follow through on promises, and I refuse to simply lift art-assets from other games (Not only is it illegal, it also doesn't allow you to customize your game very well).

I appreciate your attempt to be polite. Thank you for that. However, I already considered all other possible options before choosing to go the way I did. I know that it will probably put some people off. But I can't please everyone. Indeed, when I went with 3d art via Daz3d, the single most common complaint was that 'I was using the same models as every other game'. Some people will not like a game regardless of what you do or how well it is made. That's fine and they can simply choose not to play. I am spending god-awful amounts of my own time (and money in some cases), to make games as a hobby. People can enjoy them, or not, though I admit the extreme negativity that I've gotten on this one makes me inclined to simply pack up and go home.

*Edit* That came off more confrontational than I intended (I was still pissed about the the other post I responded to. I really do appreciate the politeness. To clarify a bit more, there is a good reason I pushed the game out as quickly as I could, rather than taking an extra couple of months to clean up the art a bit more. Namely, that I promised the patrons that I do have (who mostly came to my patreon to support my other game, Eros Academy), that I would produce results within a certain time span. It was/is an entirely self-created promise, but I do my best to always deliver on what I promise to them. Many of them were amazing people who stayed with despite the new game limiting the time I could spend on Eros Academy updates, and as such I wanted them to have something they could actually play as soon as reasonably possible. They have also seen the art at every step of the process, and have generally been happy with what I was making, art-wise. Some even saying outright that they liked it despite the limited quality. Those patrons are and always will be the opinions I primarily care about (Rather than everyone else who is getting the game entirely without any form of helpfulness to me. In fact, so far, mostly just insults. Many times from people I doubt actually even PLAYED the game, since they only reference the sample images). And those Patrons, so far, haven't had anything negative to say about it at all.
Hi, I haven't played the game (since I don't own a personal computer and I'm stuck on a mobile plataform) but I personally like to say that your art is good for a beginner, possible better than mine. What I will recommend, is to add some shade into your characters, so they can have a bit more pop into them. If you are coloring them digitally, I will recommend you to go to the color wheel (or line) and move it to a deeper color; for example, if you use orange and yellow to make the color skin, then move the color wheel somewhere between red and orange, and from there choose a color a bit more darker, but not to dark to the point of not knowing if it is a shade or not. I personally think that this may help at least with the outfits. If you are not using any digital software to color, there are various free programs that you can use such as manga studio, krita, firealpaca, and others. If you ask me, I will recommend krita since is the software I been using to draw for the last two months. Anyways, if you decide to make a mobile version of the game, let me know, I will definitely check it out... If it doesn't pass over 600mb.
Anyways, have a good one.
 

Semantics

Member
Apr 28, 2017
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Like the idea of the game and mostly like the execution so far. Mira's content thus far was pretty amusing, and the concept of a trainer game with punishment and rewards but without the usual Trainer style MC and girls being forced into stuff is a nice change of pace.

Gameplay is solid. I will say there's not much helping with their specific issues, they more just improve behind the scenes as you affect their stats, or after you hit enough of a related scene that doesn't change outside of that. Most games like this are either grindy or have more ways to increase stats than time to actually see all the scenes, whereas this avoids both (At least until late. It might be a tight squeeze to see all the date/talk/reward content in future updates with dates and several more Reward scenes at the end of current content.) Progression is overall pretty nice, although I will note the Blowjob counter unlocks didn't come into play for me until after I looked around in the code, noticed the counter, and spammed it a couple times, since the lack of scene variation and her low Chaos by that point meant I only did that scene twice.

Art is honestly not as bad as some games I've seen that have been pretty successful. It's not in the top half, but the writing is good enough to make me not care, especially if it's getting re-drawn down the line when you improve further. The eyes and hands are the main issues, and since drawing hands is pure hell, the only real meh thing is the eyes, which to be fair are important to finding a character attractive.

Also, I really appreciate the first release just focusing on one character. Most games like this focus on adding a tiny bit for each character, which leads to all the interesting stuff being back-loaded and - if saves don't carry over - a lot of replaying for minimal payoff.
 

UnDeaD_CyBorG

Well-Known Member
Apr 6, 2018
1,217
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Hmm, regarding eyes - maybe add some light reflection?
I've seen that a lot, lately, and especially noticed when improving artists added that where there was none before.
Sometimes a bit overdone, but it might help with the plasticity of characters.
 

NovusPeregrine

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Nov 27, 2017
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I guess he is to upswet to reply to our opinions, oh well
I'm going to address this one first :). I admit I was a bit upset, yes, but that's not the majority of the reason I haven't stopped by. Part of it, possibly, but not the primary reason. Primarily it was a case of getting swamped under by a combination of an update for my other game, end-of-September-patron rewards, and two separate hardware failures (graphics card and one of my primary storage hard drives) that set back virtually all of my projects (even the non-lewd ones that actually pay my bills). Thankfully, I'm fairly good about backups, so it was less crippling and more just god-awful time consuming to recover from. I've only finally gotten everything back under control in the last week...just in time to be focused mostly on this month's patron rewards :noexpression:.

Hi, I haven't played the game (since I don't own a personal computer and I'm stuck on a mobile plataform) but I personally like to say that your art is good for a beginner, possible better than mine. What I will recommend, is to add some shade into your characters, so they can have a bit more pop into them. If you are coloring them digitally, I will recommend you to go to the color wheel (or line) and move it to a deeper color; for example, if you use orange and yellow to make the color skin, then move the color wheel somewhere between red and orange, and from there choose a color a bit more darker, but not to dark to the point of not knowing if it is a shade or not. I personally think that this may help at least with the outfits. If you are not using any digital software to color, there are various free programs that you can use such as manga studio, krita, firealpaca, and others. If you ask me, I will recommend krita since is the software I been using to draw for the last two months. Anyways, if you decide to make a mobile version of the game, let me know, I will definitely check it out... If it doesn't pass over 600mb.
Anyways, have a good one.
Thank you! Both for the encouraging words and the advice! As it happens, I've overhauled my shading step almost completely since the first release. Here's an example of a piece with the new method (as well as some other changes to technique) that will be going into the first update:

Standing Pose Morigan Outfit Post Processing.png

Hopefully, it looks a bit better :). I actually use Clip Studio Pro for most things, which I believe used to be Manga Studio in it's older iterations. I've fairly happy with it, though I'd honestly like a copy of photoshop for coloring, as I think the tools are a bit better. That's out of my reach for the moment...but I might check out some of the software you listed to see if it's useful to me!

I'll also consider at least an android version in the future, as I know renpy theoretically supports that. But depending on just what nasty things porting it does to the code, it may or may not be practical....

Like the idea of the game and mostly like the execution so far. Mira's content thus far was pretty amusing, and the concept of a trainer game with punishment and rewards but without the usual Trainer style MC and girls being forced into stuff is a nice change of pace.

Gameplay is solid. I will say there's not much helping with their specific issues, they more just improve behind the scenes as you affect their stats, or after you hit enough of a related scene that doesn't change outside of that. Most games like this are either grindy or have more ways to increase stats than time to actually see all the scenes, whereas this avoids both (At least until late. It might be a tight squeeze to see all the date/talk/reward content in future updates with dates and several more Reward scenes at the end of current content.) Progression is overall pretty nice, although I will note the Blowjob counter unlocks didn't come into play for me until after I looked around in the code, noticed the counter, and spammed it a couple times, since the lack of scene variation and her low Chaos by that point meant I only did that scene twice.

Art is honestly not as bad as some games I've seen that have been pretty successful. It's not in the top half, but the writing is good enough to make me not care, especially if it's getting re-drawn down the line when you improve further. The eyes and hands are the main issues, and since drawing hands is pure hell, the only real meh thing is the eyes, which to be fair are important to finding a character attractive.

Also, I really appreciate the first release just focusing on one character. Most games like this focus on adding a tiny bit for each character, which leads to all the interesting stuff being back-loaded and - if saves don't carry over - a lot of replaying for minimal payoff.
Wow! Thank you for such an in-depth breakdown! I'm extremely happy to see that some people did like the game so far :). Doing an in-depth reply here would make an already long reponse post even worse, but I did want to respond to a few things!

1) I've always hated how every 'trainer' type game seems to treat the protagonist as scum-of-the-earth. I understand that appeals to some people, but I admit I specifically and pointedly steered away from that with the trainer elements of this game. The protagonist is designed, in this game, to not only not be a scumbag...but to actually be genuinely a nice guy by the large. One quite willing to build real relationships in addition to the training, and whose intentions are to actually help the people he's training. On some level at least.

2) Thanks for mentioning the points about gameplay. That is immensely helpful feedback. I'll try to think of a way to make unlocks (like the blowjob thing) more obvious. In the long-run, it won't be as big a deal as I'll probably add a scene library, with hints on how to unlock each bit. Unfortunately, it will likely be several updates before I tackle something like that. As for the lack of grindyness...GOOD. I really really hate grind being a thing in adult games. While my overall goal will put a tiny bit of squeeze on getting ALL results into the time frame given in a single playthrough...my current plan is to make it so there is a fair bit of leeway (meaning you don't have to be perfect to see all the content). I don't really want it to end up being a game that you have to follow every single step of a walkthrough, perfectly, to see everything!

3) Thanks for the comments about the art (and yes, hands are hell)...and even more thanks for the comment about the writing :). I am first and foremost a writer, so people enjoying that aspect is my absolute favorite thing to see! As to the art...how does the new piece I added above look to you? I tried to shade the eyes at least a little, but I admit I'm having trouble figuring out a way to do them...

Hmm, regarding eyes - maybe add some light reflection?
I've seen that a lot, lately, and especially noticed when improving artists added that where there was none before.
Sometimes a bit overdone, but it might help with the plasticity of characters.
Hmmmm. Thanks! I've been trying to add some eye-shading (both to the eye itself, and the socket around the eye) on new pieces. But I hadn't considered reflection, as I normally don't do a reflected-light step. I technically know how to do so, but decided against it since lighting wouldn't be the same in multiple game locations. I might have to talk to a couple of artist friends and see if they know a way to make more generic light reflections somehow...
 
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Revo

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Thank you! Both for the encouraging words and the advice! As it happens, I've overhauled my shading step almost completely since the first release. Here's an example of a piece with the new method (as well as some other changes to technique) that will be going into the first update:
No problem :) Anything to help a beginner fellow artist like myself. Also, try to play with the colors a bit more maybe you can improve the shading and coloring in other parts of your game. Also, don't forget about saturation since it tends to help with shading. Have a good one.
 

Revo

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Jun 18, 2017
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I've fairly happy with it, though I'd honestly like a copy of photoshop for coloring, as I think the tools are a bit better.
I know the feeling, but photoshop tools are more for photo manipulation than art. When you color keep in mind where especifically the lighting is coming, that's going to help a lot when it comes to shading/shadows. At least on my opinion, your coloring is a bit dark for regular lighting (unless that's how you color them). 178516_Standing_Pose_Morigan_Outfit_Post_Processing.png
Now, if you look at the one I color, you can see the difference in the shading/shadows since my light was coming from the top left corner 178516_Standing_Pose_Morigan_Outfit_Post_Processing 2.png
Some parts may look a bit off since I was rushing with the colors.
P. S. Sorry for using your image as an example of coloring, but I hope this helps you. Also, yes this was done using krita.
 
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NovusPeregrine

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Nov 27, 2017
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I know the feeling, but photoshop tools are more for photo manipulation than art. When you color keep in mind where especifically the lighting is coming, that's going to help a lot when it comes to shading/shadows. At least on my opinion, your coloring is a bit dark for regular lighting (unless that's how you color them).
Now, if you look at the one I color, you can see the difference in the shading/shadows since my light was coming from the top left corner
Some parts may look a bit off since I was rushing with the colors.
P. S. Sorry for using your image as an example of coloring, but I hope this helps you. Also, yes this was done using krita.
Oh crud! I actually read your reply(s) the day after you posted them, but I was up to my eyebrows in something and decided to wait on responding...then I forget about it like an idiot until I came back to the forum for other reasons.

Anyway! Thanks for the advice! Though...I might not use it. The method you used is actually one I'm familiar with from the online courses I took to try and get some basic skills, but there's a bit of a problem with it. Namely, that I'm reusing the art in different locations as much as possible, to keep the total number of art assets I need down. As such, I haven't wanted to apply much lighting that comes from a specific source. As it is, I'm actually using a overlay layer and multiple shading layers when I create each piece. So that, potentially at least, I can alter things like day/night on the art piece without redoing much. I haven't actually implemented that yet, but it's something I want to leave myself the ability to do down the road. In example:

Serena Morgan Day.png Serena Morgan Night.png

This is the result just of editing the overlay layer value in each direction from the base image. If I were going to do it properly, I'd also edit the values of the skin, hair, and dress shading layers as well to fully change the day/night impression.

At the same time...I'm a little jealous you apparently got the shadows to look that good so easily. I'm still struggling with that. :noexpression: It should be fairly easy, but....
 
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UnDeaD_CyBorG

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Apr 6, 2018
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A question here, from someone who has no practice whatsoever with the tools you use:
Could you, in a later stage of the project, add an extra layer?
Then you could, for bright environments like sun or bright indoors, define a secondary colour for the base colour that will be used in said overlay, and essentially just have a transparent mask applied to the character.
Not sure that is even feasible here, but I've seen enough projects that cut art into little pieces so they can easily add variation - though I admit I can't remember off the top of my head if I've seen that approach applied to full-body shadows.
 

NovusPeregrine

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Nov 27, 2017
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A question here, from someone who has no practice whatsoever with the tools you use:
Could you, in a later stage of the project, add an extra layer?
Then you could, for bright environments like sun or bright indoors, define a secondary colour for the base colour that will be used in said overlay, and essentially just have a transparent mask applied to the character.
Not sure that is even feasible here, but I've seen enough projects that cut art into little pieces so they can easily add variation - though I admit I can't remember off the top of my head if I've seen that approach applied to full-body shadows.
That's exactly what I did, as it happens. When I said 'overlay' layer, it's literally what you just described. It's a layer set to 'overlay' with whatever color it's set to, and with whatever transparency it's set to. In my previous post, with the two tumbnails, both have a layer with about 50% transparency (a little more in the day version and a little less in the night version), one with a dark color and the other with a light. However, that layer doesn't effect shadows by some sort of voodoo magic. Shadows would have to be completely redrawn if I didn't make them fairly non-directional and somewhat minimal from the beginning. Hence why I'm color them the way I am, rather than the way Revo recolored the image :).
 
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UnDeaD_CyBorG

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Actually, what I meant is to combine the two. You could have a layer for those 'on-character'-shadows. As those would mostly happen in a limited number of situations, you could create masks for just a specific posture. Then activating it would shade just the predefined parts.
What I'm not aware of is if renpy can handle colour changes/mutators instead of just a transparent overlay, as the colour could change relative to the base material and not just as a blanket overlay.
Though I suppose you have something similar planned anyways. Maybe I'm just rambling, I haven't used those tools for nearly 10 years.
 

Revo

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Jun 18, 2017
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Oh crud! I actually read your reply(s) the day after you posted them, but I was up to my eyebrows in something and decided to wait on responding...then I forget about it like an idiot until I came back to the forum for other reasons.
Don't worry, tends to happen when you are busy.
Anyway! Thanks for the advice! Though...I might not use it. The method you used is actually one I'm familiar with from the online courses I took to try and get some basic skills, but there's a bit of a problem with it. Namely, that I'm reusing the art in different locations as much as possible, to keep the total number of art assets I need down. As such, I haven't wanted to apply much lighting that comes from a specific source. As it is, I'm actually using a overlay layer and multiple shading layers when I create each piece. So that, potentially at least, I can alter things like day/night on the art piece without redoing much. I haven't actually implemented that yet, but it's something I want to leave myself the ability to do down the road.
Its ok, everyone have their style I respect that. Just keep in mind that too much shading can make the character looks bad. For example yhe night version skin looks a bit too bright to be in the night, and somewhat similar to the hair color. If you don't mind, I will like to borrow the night version and recolor it.
At the same time...I'm a little jealous you apparently got the shadows to look that good so easily. I'm still struggling with that. :noexpression: It should be fairly easy, but...
Don't be jealous, I was in the same spot as you a couple of months ago, so I know how you feel. Also, it was a bit rush, and I couldn't add a few details that I thought would make it look better.
 

Semantics

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Apr 28, 2017
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3) Thanks for the comments about the art (and yes, hands are hell)...and even more thanks for the comment about the writing :). I am first and foremost a writer, so people enjoying that aspect is my absolute favorite thing to see! As to the art...how does the new piece I added above look to you? I tried to shade the eyes at least a little, but I admit I'm having trouble figuring out a way to do them...

Hmmmm. Thanks! I've been trying to add some eye-shading (both to the eye itself, and the socket around the eye) on new pieces. But I hadn't considered reflection, as I normally don't do a reflected-light step. I technically know how to do so, but decided against it since lighting wouldn't be the same in multiple game locations. I might have to talk to a couple of artist friends and see if they know a way to make more generic light reflections somehow...
Sorry for the late reply, I kept meaning to but forgetting.

So, that art looks further improved from the later stuff in the game. There are still miiinor issues with the hands, mostly with the finger angles, but it does show a pretty good technique for hands: If you're not perfect at them, use the pose to hide things. If I weren't really looking at the hand specifically (Which, I mean, not often you find yourself looking at hands unless you're looking to critique them), I wouldn't notice.

As to the eyes, they're a bit better, but still not that improved. To fully break things down, there are various things to keep in mind:

1. Style. It's definitely a more simple style, but honestly I don't see this as a complaint personally, I can just see someone saying it. The important part isn't really the style (There are several games around which, because they're based on cartoons with a certain style and try to emulate it, have odd or simple children's cartoon eyes), but how you vary things within that style. This one I think you're honestly doing solid at, from vague memories and checking the images on the first post. Some eyes are tilted in different ways, some eyes are wider, narrower, shorter, or taller. As long as you refine that and keep it consistent to each character, you're honestly golden.

2. Emoting. This one, I honestly can't remember for sure how good the game does without playing it, but basically just use the eyes show what the character is feeling. Have them narrow in suspicion and anger, widen in confusion, get half-lidded in lust or sorrow. As with the first, that's not really something I can comment on about the art above, and it's doubly hard to remember from the game thus far, since every character will be different in how much emotion they express, and there's only one character with content in right now.

3. Irises. This is the one you need the most work on. The thing here is don't think of it like shading, think of it like highlighting. It's...honestly one of those things I don't draw enough anymore (nor color at all) to really give too deep a rundown on, but it's also somewhat stylistic. There are functionally two ways to highlight, through white...spots, for a better word, to represent light full on catching on the iris, and by having the bottom half be a brighter color than the top. How exactly these two elements are combined is dependent on style. Most anime, for instance, use more spots, and maaaybe less of the more overall eye highlighting, though that depends. If you search F95 for Bazooka Cafe and check the sample pics there, like that, although I've seen the spots be larger than that, and anime using that more subtlety. Non-cartoony western art generally makes those spots very small and subtle, and focuses more on the overall highlighting of the bottom half of the iris. If you check the sample art on Seeds of Chaos' page, that's a good example. Eyes from comic books too, at least during the period I grew up reading them, though finding that's...a bit harder without buying the comic books. Again, as with point 1, consistency is more important than what route you go in highlighting.

I can't for the life of me remember what goes into deciding where the spot-like highlights go, and several 3D, design-girls games out of Japan I've played just have fifteen thousand different possible locations and sizes for them as options, so for all I know it's basically just, "Hey, use the spots to show characterization" in those cases. The second half is generally easy, though, you just use the same assumptions as you would shading anything else. The lower half of the iris will get more light and thus be brighter because most light comes from above, if they look at something out of the corner of their eyes, the side of the iris toward the corner will get a bit less light and be darker, etc.

Certainly this would change depending on the lighting, but presumably as long as you aren't, say, having the characters be in rooms where all the light is coming from the floor, then you don't really have to worry about the room lighting as much as clothes, because stuff like "The light is coming from above, but could either be coming from slightly to the left or the right" won't matter as much for eyes. For clothes and skin, some of the object will be directly facing the light, which is why exact angle is important.. But unless someone's staring up, the same doesn't really happen for eyes and overhead lighting. And, if you are going to have, say, location where they can go to a club and the only lights will be coming from a crazy lit up dance floor? ...I honestly don't think anyone would complain if the eyes were still highlighted as if the light was coming from above. Sometimes too much attempt to reach realism without, well, realism, can cause issues. (See, uncanny valley.)

Sorry for the post length. It's been years since I've drawn, myself, and it's been longer than that since I had to actually know how...well, any of this, was put into words.

Edit: I'll also note, the "People won't care about specific source and will let things slide if it's wrong" thing does kiiiinda apply to clothes and skin too? VN style games where there's a background and a character image floating in front of it don't really go, "Well, light will be coming from X side in this room, so I should shade it that way." They just pretty much assume the light is always coming from above, because it almost always is, and pick an exact direction (Either side, or directly overhead) for the light to be coming from, and shade everything that way. Specifically thinking, "My light source would be here" and constantly changing the angles of shading only really come into it if you're drawing a full-on scene, where character and background are being drawn together.
 

NovusPeregrine

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Nov 27, 2017
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First: I'm going to note that development on both of my games is currently paused due to some health issues. I'll be making an announcement about what will happen going forward on my patreon within a few days. Having said that, the one-month lead time for the previous release that my patrons get is over, so here are the links and release notes for Version .21


This is a bugfixed version of .2, hence the reason why there are two sets of release notes here. The bulk of the new information is in the .2 release notes, with just some gameplay changes, bugfix, and known issues in the .21 release notes. Note: You should really read at least the first note in the .21 release notes, though. It's kinda important.

PC Links:




Mac Links:




Release Notes for .21
Changes/Fixes

-!Warning! The way time works has undergone a pretty major change. During play testing, I found time moving forward when you travel between locations to seriously annoying, overall. After trying to improve it in the .2 release, I still wasn't happy, so I basically just scrubbed that aspect. Time should no longer move forward by any means except A) the Advanced Time button, which should now be available at every location and B) Interaction with the girls. Note, that should is kinda important. This was such a sweeping change to a core system that it caused me several headaches. As such, despite some play testing, there is an extremely high probability it has caused bugs, please report issues. One of the known oddities causes by the changes is in the Known Issues section, but it's not game breaking, just currently a little odd seeming.
- Fixed a major bug that let you click on Serena when you were already talking to her in her second cosplay outfit, which would cause some cascading bugs.
- Fixed a minor bug in one of Serena's chats reported by a patron.
Remaining Known Issues:
- It's possible to accidentally miss most of Serena's chats, some of which are important to her character development. I wanted to fix this for the .21 release, but changing the Time system ended up being far more involved and time consuming than I thought.
- Relationship gain/Chaos reduction for Serena is probably horribly unbalanced at the moment. Needs more play testing.
- The inventory needs totally scrapped and replaced. Don't expect anything but money and gifts to show up there for now. Though those two things do at least work.

Release Notes for 0.2
General stuff first. This update brings Serena up to roughly the same content quantity as Mira already had. This doesn't mean that she has exactly the same types of content, each girl will be different in exactly how they behave and thus how you can interact with them, but the quantity of content between them, as well as the number of images, is now roughly even. So what exactly does the update add. This:
-15 new Serena images, 12 of which are significantly different from one another, and the other three being variants.
- Rewards and punishments for Serena
- Chats for Serena in each location (Work, Mall, Park and the Club)
- A new location: The Club. Which has some minimal content for Mira and Alice as well as content for Serena.
- A gift for Serena at the giftshop
- (Spoiler!) The ability to purchase an item for Serena from the Goth Store backroom...after you've discovered it! Needed to unlock two of her Reward/Punishment options.
- New information from Alice about Serena...and an item she has that might be useful (make sure to talk to Alice about her more than once!)
- Sexy times at the end of some of the chat conversation chains...make sure you actually explore the Mall, Park, and Club chats to their ends...
(Fixes/Changes)
- Returning to the same location with the map no longer makes time pass. Moving from one location to another inside a building doesn't make time pass (it was never supposed to, something went wrong near the end of the first build and no one knew it wasn't supposed to do that...so I didn't realize it until the play testing for this version).
- Some Bugfixes and spelling corrections from previous content
-Probably other stuff I'm forgetting about...
 

NovusPeregrine

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The nofile link for PC version have some problems.
mac was also down. links were from dev so >.<
Yeah, they worked when I first made them, but even just a few hours later they were broken. Worse, when I tried to make more, they didn't work either and I can't figure out what's up with them. For the time being I've crossed nofile off my list of places to use.
 
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