.Sirene
Active Member
- Jul 24, 2022
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Ladies and Gentlemen, boys and girls - gather all around and witness the smoothest brain in action!
MrZack
Member
- Feb 24, 2020
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Oh dumbass, so only the Steam moderators are allowed to call game developers pedophiles? because that's what means to accuse a game of having "exploitation of children".
.Sirene
Active Member
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If Steam had concerns that the sliders could be abused, that means that Steam found a way to abuse the sliders to produce underage looking content, and figured that users would figure out how to do the same exploit. So despite Znel putting in safeguards, Steam found a way around them and if they could, then others likely have as well.
So I'd actually check to see if you can produce underage content by abusing specific sliders to produce a specific result. Instead of setting all to 0, try some at 25, some at 0, and some at negative values.
Common sense isn't so common anymore. Usually if Steam bans something its usually for a good reason. Znel said he put in safeguards, but just because a road has guard rails, doesn't mean cars can't find a way around them or through them.
I'd suspect that Steam discovered a glitch, an exploit, or a hidden backdoor that let them create underage looking content, and if they could find it, then users likely have as well.
HazaRealGamer
Newbie
- Jun 3, 2021
- 83
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Most games don't have nudity, customization sliders, actual pornographic elements, or have content meant to offend someone in it.
If say Black Desert Online allowed for nudity and sex in the game, I doubt they'd allow it on Steam. As a lot of Asian characters are intended to look "young".
.Sirene
Active Member
- Jul 24, 2022
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Exactly right.
What is included in the game vs. what can be modded into the game are two different things entirely. And I think VALVe have concerns about the former.
MrZack
Member
- Feb 24, 2020
- 150
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I don't think I'd call outright banning the developer instead of warning him so he can patch it out as "common sense" specially since the developer himself stated that is not intended behavior of the sliders.
I'm not a fan of eternal development Patreon games, however I'm far less fan of developers being unfairly banned, Znel is not some epstinian conspirator trying to smuggle CSEM in to steam, he's making his game and went out of his way to try to conform to steam's unclear and inconsistent rules about bodytypes (its not even about age anymore), yet he's not even allowed an appeal or way to rectify it so his game can return.
But you're right on something, if we pretend Steam is always right and Znel did everything wrong then its fair and totally not bullshit
Josus Joestar
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- Jun 14, 2020
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Hephannon
Member
- Mar 1, 2020
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If it made that kind of sense then anyone can just make underaged looking characters and declare them as older than they look.
I don't know why Adult Dev's keep on doing this and why people bother "talking about it" when it's all wrong all the time.
Steam is still a "Common Persons" store like it or not (and other than the Visual Novel fiasco's due to the School setting) it's always the same story.
T-Shirts for kids with "I'm my parents little cum-bubble" are sold (or "Spit Roast Whore Hot Sauce" being sold at a truck stop that everyone can see and buy), so is stuff like "Sex with Hitler".
Are they offensive? Very, but they are actively having dirty-tongue-in-cheek-fun with the product that can help skirt that line massively.
There is also a reason why many movies that are "problematic" from back in the day are still liked by many, because it's the total sum of it's part. It's only the movies that have nothing to offer that people will specifically ridicule for being so stupid and sleazy.
On the other hand, a game that doesn't pull any stops where they have a hardcore subject (ei: actively violating something, without a story, lore, etc). and that's the whole and ONLY premise are going to have a harder time being sold on it's premise. Quite a few games on Steam have some "extreme" hardcore adult content in them, but because it has some fat and meat on the bones, they can at least soften the blow on it (not to mention the writing).
Znel can do all the changes they like, the Sliders were simply the quickest and easiest scape-goat excuse they got. Why they decided "put safeguards" (seriously, doesn't anyone have any proof of this?) or only now to "limit them" after the damage is done (when they were already on 2-3 other places) is beyond me.
Sometimes it's better to have a smaller but more lucrative base without rocking the boat, rather then a larger boat where you need to keep on throwing out content to meet the quota.
Personal Opinion that doesn't matter: This is a sign the Developer isn't financially happy and wanted to get more money by accessing a larger potential selling pool.
I get it, but maybe they should make an actual game or massively update this one? I mean their updates are nowhere close to what some (literally) free indie games get months apart, and those are original works. This game on the other hand also has a decent stack of asset use, so I don't know what they're doing with a good portion of the money if they're not re-investing it in the project.
Steam is still a "Common Persons" store like it or not (and other than the Visual Novel fiasco's due to the School setting) it's always the same story.
T-Shirts for kids with "I'm my parents little cum-bubble" are sold (or "Spit Roast Whore Hot Sauce" being sold at a truck stop that everyone can see and buy), so is stuff like "Sex with Hitler".
Are they offensive? Very, but they are actively having dirty-tongue-in-cheek-fun with the product that can help skirt that line massively.
There is also a reason why many movies that are "problematic" from back in the day are still liked by many, because it's the total sum of it's part. It's only the movies that have nothing to offer that people will specifically ridicule for being so stupid and sleazy.
On the other hand, a game that doesn't pull any stops where they have a hardcore subject (ei: actively violating something, without a story, lore, etc). and that's the whole and ONLY premise are going to have a harder time being sold on it's premise. Quite a few games on Steam have some "extreme" hardcore adult content in them, but because it has some fat and meat on the bones, they can at least soften the blow on it (not to mention the writing).
Znel can do all the changes they like, the Sliders were simply the quickest and easiest scape-goat excuse they got. Why they decided "put safeguards" (seriously, doesn't anyone have any proof of this?) or only now to "limit them" after the damage is done (when they were already on 2-3 other places) is beyond me.
Sometimes it's better to have a smaller but more lucrative base without rocking the boat, rather then a larger boat where you need to keep on throwing out content to meet the quota.
Personal Opinion that doesn't matter: This is a sign the Developer isn't financially happy and wanted to get more money by accessing a larger potential selling pool.
I get it, but maybe they should make an actual game or massively update this one? I mean their updates are nowhere close to what some (literally) free indie games get months apart, and those are original works. This game on the other hand also has a decent stack of asset use, so I don't know what they're doing with a good portion of the money if they're not re-investing it in the project.
Few comments:I don't think I'd call outright banning the developer instead of warning him so he can patch it out as "common sense" specially since the developer himself stated that is not intended behavior of the sliders.
I'm not a fan of eternal development Patreon games, however I'm far less fan of developers being unfairly banned, Znel is not some epstinian conspirator trying to smuggle CSEM in to steam, he's making his game and went out of his way to try to conform to steam's unclear and inconsistent rules about bodytypes (its not even about age anymore), yet he's not even allowed an appeal or way to rectify it so his game can return.
But you're right on something, if we pretend Steam is always right and Znel did everything wrong then its fair and totally not bullshit
1) Znel might have been warned already several times. He just never told us of any warnings, because a warning wouldn't usually affect people's ability to download it off steam. Only once a ban dropped, you'd notice.
2) Some issues can't be patched out though. Take the game Hatred. If you patched out the blood and turned it into confetti, would it make the game less offensive? Or possibly more offensive? If they removed the sliders altogether, would that solve the problem? If they did, would people still want to buy it?
3) Unfairly banned is an eye of the beholder problem. It might just be that Znel was already skirting the boundaries of multiple potential rule breaks, and thus this ban feels more fair in Steam's eyes. It is a riskier product than some games. Like Wild Life has some character customization, but you can't make someone look "young" ever.
4) There is two types of bans on steam. Soft bans and hard bans. Soft bans can be appealed, but it costs you something harsh to do it. ie removing all the slider customization to get the game back on. Hard bans is where there is so much public outcry that nothing they do will resolve the situation. ie The Day Before or Guardians of Ember. So has he said the game has been "hard" banned or "soft" banned? ie Has Steam given him an ultimatum of what must be changed to get it on Steam and he is refusing to do that?
5) I never said Steam is always right. I also didn't say Znel is wrong. Most things these days is shades of grey. However, with that said, Znel hasn't helped himself by pushing the boundaries into the black. I'm sure there is a way around the problems, but I'm not sure Znel or Steam is going to budge on the decision or make efforts to rectify the problems.