VN Ren'Py Abandoned Tides of Succession [Ch.3 v0.3] [TakMycket]

[slick97]

I also admit I could've handled this better. If I had to go back and do it all again, I'd still release the poll, but I'd make it much more clear that the poll wasn't going to determine the direction I took, but rather help inform my decision.

It doesn't make much sense to have a poll for a decision that the community doesn't have much input for to begin with. It's also a terrible method for making life changing decisions since all of us are making a choice on extremely limited knowledge. Trying to distinguish between "informing a decision" and "determining your direction" is semantics as well, but besides that polls are better suited for decisions that are limited on their potential impact (i.e. splitting up updates into smaller chapters, changing the hairstyle of an LI).

Personally I'll be keeping an eye on the new project a bit before passing any judgements (not judging a book by its cover so to speak).

 

[EKG]

I admit, it's a sticky situation. The community was always going to be opposed to putting Tides of Succession on hold considering it was the Tides of Succession community. There was always going to be negative feedback. I still stand by my decision as well - I struggle to picture a world in which Tides of Succession was a commercial success. It wasn't a decision I made lightly - I spent many days and nights thinking about this.

I also admit I could've handled this better. If I had to go back and do it all again, I'd still release the poll, but I'd make it much more clear that the poll wasn't going to determine the direction I took, but rather help inform my decision.

However, we live and we learn. No matter how much anyone complains, at the end of the day, not enough people were financially invested in Tides because it just didn't have the commercial prowess other AVNs do. As much as I loved working on it, I couldn't afford to spend 50 hours each week working at 86 US cents an hour. It's as simple as that. So now I'm going to give my shot at another project and we'll see how that goes.

You've said quite a bit about finances but you yourself said you walked away from years of studies for the sake of this decision and you bailed out on ToS while it was still "To be announced" on Steam, the primary storefront where sales come in.

If you take a look at the commercially successful creators, you'll see they have 1-2 completed games to their names. What you won't see in their backlog is an abandoned project in order to chase after a checklist of genre fads that are already on their way out. The successful creators are trendsetters, not trend chasers and an "Abandoned" stigma (much less two of them) is going to far outweigh whatever you borrow from other games.

Heralding a career choice by immediately alienating the very audience you're counting on for support and verbally trashing the work they were supporting is a path that often leads to one destination.

If there's so much fixation on commercial success and "niches" perhaps adult visual novels are not the best medium to pursue.

 

[TakMycket]

You've said quite a bit about finances but you yourself said you walked away from years of studies for the sake of this decision

As backwards as this sounds, I didn't make this decision with the intention of making a lot of money. If I wanted to be rich, I'd stick to the more traditional career pathway. This decision was made because I wanted to go full-time with my AVN development but in order to do that, I needed to make a base salary which I just wasn't able to do with ToS.

you bailed out on ToS while it was still "To be announced" on Steam, the primary storefront where sales come in.

Steam is definitely the big money maker for AVN developers. However, Patreon counts are a good estimator of how much you'd earn on Steam. If I were to sell on Steam, I'm looking at US$40,000 which isn't enough for full-time development considering I'd still have another few years of development before I could sell ToS on Steam. I also find sex appeal is definitely what sells on Steam and I've discussed this point quite a bit -> ToS doesn't have that sex appeal.

The successful creators are trendsetters, not trend chasers

In terms of media, what you'll find is most of the extremely successful media (whether that be books, movies or AVNs), take common tropes and add their own spin on them. I've said this before, but this project isn't just going to be College AVN #378. It's going to have elements which make it stand out from the rest.

verbally trashing the work they were supporting is a path that often leads to one destination.

Never once have I trashed Tides of Succession. I think it's a brilliant story and a brilliant AVN. If another creator had created something like ToS, I'd be their highest paying supporter.

I have said many times that Tides of Succession isn't commercially viable. I don't believe that's trashing it. I think we can all agree that ToS was a relatively niche product. That doesn't mean it's bad, it just means it has a much narrower target audience.

If you take a look at the commercially successful creators, you'll see they have 1-2 completed games to their names. What you won't see in their backlog is an abandoned project in order to chase after a checklist of genre fads that are already on their way out.

I know I've picked apart your message and offered opposing perspectives to most of your points. However, I just want to say for this one is you're 100% correct. It's going to be more difficult for this project with my history of abandoning projects, and there's no denying that.

However, that doesn't mean it can't be done. Underground Studios abandoned Best Days of Our Lives before making Race of Life, which has been one of the best received new AVN in recent times. To further reiterate my above point, RoL is set in college, but has those few key points of difference which sets it out from the crowd.

So yes, this is going to be difficult and I understand why people are doubtful. But like I've said previously, I'm going to be doing everything in my ability to make this new project of mine work

 

[yossa999]

However, that doesn't mean it can't be done. Underground Studios abandoned Best Days of Our Lives before making Race of Life, which has been one of the best received new AVN in recent times. To further reiterate my above point, RoL is set in college, but has those few key points of difference which sets it out from the crowd.

So, Spice of Life soon?

 

[EKG]

This decision was made because I wanted to go full-time with my AVN development but in order to do that, I needed to make a base salary which I just wasn't able to do with ToS.

This is why a large number of AVN creators have jobs, because they know they can't just force a salary out of an AVN just because they want it. The creators that have gone full-time, again, often have at least one complete game to their name which is how they built that audience that is now covering their paychecks.

I also find sex appeal is definitely what sells on Steam and I've discussed this point quite a bit -> ToS doesn't have that sex appeal.

With respect, this was seemingly a conscious decision you made prior to Chapter 3, and you received polite feedback on that. Up until about a week ago, I was genuinely impressed with how maturely you took comments and didn't express any visible frustration with what people were saying. Now I can't help but sense a degree of spite going into this other project.

However, that doesn't mean it can't be done. Underground Studios abandoned Best Days of Our Lives before making Race of Life, which has been one of the best received new AVN in recent times. To further reiterate my above point, RoL is set in college, but has those few key points of difference which sets it out from the crowd.

Underground Studios didn't abandon two games in rapid succession and they certainly didn't publicly say they were throwing their previous game away because patrons weren't paying up enough. Furthermore, RoL is primarily about racing and the adult drama, the MC just happens to work at a college which is ultimately not super critical to the story, it's not a college AVN. I think you've taken the wrong lessons from RoL.

This is a bad look all around and it's borderline self-destructive to decide that's how you want to begin a full-time endeavor.

 

[Radical_Dreamer]

Well this was a bummer to see. I just recently started following this title too.

Oh well. Best of luck to the dev. I've seen a lot of posts here kind of bashing the dev for their decision. While I understand some perspectives here, at the end of the day, a lot of bashing is likely coming from people not supporting the dev in any way financially, which kind of makes your perspective irrelevant. Maybe not irrelevant, as good constructive feedback is great for any dev, but I've noticed on this site that the people who give the least useful feedback, and even worse, whine and bitch that the project got abandoned are the ones on here that are entitled and don't support any projects financially. A lot of devs have given up on their games because of people like this.

Anyways, my honest note to the dev (if you read this): As you mentioned, there are tons of VNs out there. Competition is vast. My advice to you on any new projects you put out is to go at a slower pace that doesn't burn you out while doing something else financially. You said somewhere you spent 50 hours a week working on ToS. Consider slowing that down. Will update be fewer? Sure. But that's okay. At least you can support yourself and hopefully build something that will gain support over time and not end up getting abandoned due to burn out or financial struggles.

Just my two cents. I wish you all the best.

 

[EKG]

I've seen a lot of posts here kind of bashing the dev for their decision. While I understand some perspectives here, at the end of the day, a lot of bashing is likely coming from people not supporting the dev in any way financially, which kind of makes your perspective irrelevant.

The fact honest comments about the very real issues that tend to haunt a dev after such a move has been written off as "bashing whining and bitching" is so typical to see nowadays, considering it's the same tactic the AAA publishers have used for years when they mess something up.

 

[Radical_Dreamer]

The fact honest comments about the very real issues that tend to haunt a dev after such a move has been written off as "bashing whining and bitching" is so typical to see nowadays, considering it's the same tactic the AAA publishers have used for years when they mess something up.

You literally quoted part of my post and still took it out of context.

I never said that there weren't valid perspectives (in fact, you QUOTED me saying this). I also said that devs, especially good ones, thrive off of honest feedback. I quite literally said all of this.

My point is, at the end of the day, game devs are not beholden to people that play their games for free. They have to make decisions that best suit their needs, as unfortunate as that may be. And it is objectively true that a vast chunk of feedback to this dev since making their announcement has been negative and unconstructive.

If you're going to quote me, quote my whole post and don't cherry pick. It's poor taste and lame. Context matters.

 

[EKG]

You literally quoted part of my post and still took it out of context.

I never said that there weren't valid perspectives (in fact, you QUOTED me saying this). I also said that devs, especially good ones, thrive off of honest feedback. I quite literally said all of this.

My point is, at the end of the day, game devs are not beholden to people that play their games for free. They have to make decisions that best suit their needs, as unfortunate as that may be. And it is objectively true that a vast chunk of feedback to this dev since making their announcement has been negative and unconstructive.

If you're going to quote me, quote my whole post and don't cherry pick. It's poor taste and lame. Context matters.

Context does matter, which is why your insistence on the term "bashing" stuck out as a clear problem in your post.

First the users are "whining" (one can't even Google "EA" without seeing the company make a comment similar to yours at some point in the last 15 years) and next they need to buy the right to have a thought. You have literally zero information on who had and hadn't supported the project.

 

[RobustBear]

I see lots of potential in this game.most underrated game . Regular/frequent update could place this game in the top list.

 

[RobustBear]

Hate to find this that this game is abandoned

 

[JillybeanEnjoyer]

Bot moment. Dead internet theory live and well.

 

[HalaMadrid15UCL]

NOOOOOOOOOOOOO

 

[Rionausername]

i just had this bookmarked, waiting for more content / updates and then ... its abandoned before i try

 

[Hobodouken]

i just had this bookmarked, waiting for more content / updates and then ... its abandoned before i try

To be perfectly honest, you're not really missing out on much anyways.

 

[celticlord88]

there were a bunch of new games that started development last year. i was predicting it was only a matter of time before some ended up abandoned.

 

[boobsrcool]

To be perfectly honest, you're not really missing out on much anyways.

WRONG

 

[Midgetking101]

WRONG

I only remember playing up until the night that the ball happened where you dance with the r'ol girl (kasula i think) cuz my game crashed there/had a repeating error. I already know that the king amd the cripple kill henricus if u betray henricus cuz I was reading dis thread while playing d game and dat u can get a throuple scene with lorelei/glade but what else happens after dat. I'm asking just in case d game never comes back ever again. And yes u can spoil me. Idc.

 

[MagicShoppe]

I only remember playing up until the night that the ball happened where you dance with the r'ol girl (kasula i think) cuz my game crashed there/had a repeating error. I already know that the king amd the cripple kill henricus if u betray henricus cuz I was reading dis thread while playing d game and dat u can get a throuple scene with lorelei/glade but what else happens after dat. I'm asking just in case d game never comes back ever again. And yes u can spoil me. Idc.

I've never seen what you describe because there's like 4 other paths you might have missed.

 

[yeetermcgee123]

Disappointing its abandoned, best of luck to dev. Ditching this VN for the 1,000,000th college VN is everything thats wrong with AVNs. I would suggest to the dev to limit branching choices in the early chapters in future endeavors, it just adds extra work down the road and players want to get a feel for the characters in the story instead of having to do a bunch of play throughs