Tips for developers: how not to suck

TinoBambino

Member
Game Developer
Aug 6, 2016
128
235
I'm going to operate a kind of master list for the kind of development decisions that make you seem like an asshole piece of shit and endlessly frustrate your players.

This shit that has no place in any of the erotic games that people are making right now, yet are apparently in every other game. It's because they are all copying each other, because one guy made money doing it that way and so everyone who is trying to milk money out of patreon is doing it the same way.

Here we go:

Save points.

How many times have you been playing an in-development game, and encounter a game breaking bug? Probably pretty often. No big deal right? You could always just reload your save, UNLESS it's in a game where the last save point was 3 battles and a 6 minute cinematic ago. You can't even troubleshoot the issue for the dev because after the second or third attempt to get past the bug, you're so sick of the same shit content that you just want to kill yourself IRL.

Chores, Showers, Work, etc.

I don't know about you guys, but I don't get to brainwash coeds/ fuck my hot secretary/ throw fireballs/ cum 14 times a day into different women. What I do get to do is take out the trash, wait tables, sit in traffic, etc etc etc. The amount of games that force you to wake up, get dressed, take a shower, go to work, wait tables, pay your taxes, mow your lawn, pick your grandmother up from her doctor's appointment, make dinner, do the dishes, and go to sleep three times between every sex scene is proof that these developers think their Patreon subscribers are subhuman. Even if the player character is hot, I don't want to look at the same still image of them in the shower for an enforced 14 seconds every “day” in the game.

Days/Nights

Yes, days and nights aren't a problem. Certain types of events occur during the day, others at night. Makes sense. However, if there isn't a solid narrative reason for why an event can't take place on a Tuesday, then GTFO of here with this days of the week shit. This is a porn videogame. I know I just went to the gym, went to work, sucked some dicks at a gloryhole and committed a triple homicide. I don't need to sleep. Don't make me go to sleep. Don't make me walk home so I can use my bed and then sit through another 20 second shower.

Big ass maps.

You guys know which games are the problem here. Making a map is literally the easiest thing you can do in RPG Maker. These fuckers fling off 50 screen city maps and promise 3 games will use the same space, it will be full of interesting locales, individuals, experiences, whatever. Maybe these things will come in the future, maybe they won't. In the present all it means is that while your player character is taking out the trash, going to work, sorting out bank errors and fucking their own mother you, as the player, who is trying to stay hard with one hand and jump through stupid hoops with the other, is going to be running around for literally minutes between scenes.

Story is on rails, player isn't.

If I don't have any choice in what my character is about to do, then don't make me walk there. If I have to go from my house to school to work to home again for the first 4 days of your story, then just take me there yourself, Patreon developer. There's a million things out there I could be jacking off to, I'm giving your game a shot, and before I even have a chance at becoming aroused you have made me waste 50 minutes of my life between a 37 second shower, a mini game where I lace up my shoes, and a trip to the store for milk before I got to an even mildly erotic situation. I'm not saying a story can't be on rails, obviously it has to be at times, but if it is, don't let the player ping around off the walls randomly because they don't know which of the 140 houses you put in the gameworld is the ONE they are supposed to knock on the door of. Being able to talk to a handful of random NPCs about the weather on the way is not a meaningful design choice, but it is a giant waste of my time.

What else is there?
 

graykingdom

Member
Oct 15, 2016
116
83
mini games in porn games make no sense unless they are part of the story and tie in with the world and are only there as optional content or something your character is doing during a date i.e dart mini game at a bar if your taking said date to a bar and the story includes darts.

Not run through a maze, catch kittens and or insert bs mini game that has no place in this game and has no plot value to it here.
 

riccartman

Newbie
Sep 17, 2016
48
34
I don't think any 'developer' would read these, cause they hate us like crazy, but it sure does feel good to rant it out, so I'll contribute my 2 cents of fume.

1. RPG Maker-esque games.
Yeah its great that you have a great engine to make these games, its great that the engine provides so much freedom and you don't have to worry about coding and stuff, but FFS!!! If you don't use the features provided in the engine, then maybe its better to use some other engine? Adventure creator, VN engine, or anything that doesn't make it a walking simulator. I've hardly seen the PC, in any game, level up, use the inventory to sort out his/her gear, any game to use the HP/Mana/Stamina mechanic. I understand not every game would utilize all the mechanics, then maybe your game would benefit from using a different engine?

2. Big ass worlds w/o maps.
(WETness covered this brilliantly, I just wanna add some more)
If you're creating a big map, great! There will be tons of shit to do, and bazillion places to visit in V99.999.999+, but I'm playing V0.0.0.0.0.0001, I swear I spent 30 mins in "Lily of Valley" (or a game close to that title) trying to find my best friend's house and boy was that fun...
Please include jpg file that describes the locations, even if its so pathetically rendered/drawn that it makes stick figures look like Studio Ghibli's prime work, it would help a hell lot.

3. PC's Naivety.
If PC is naive as fuck, that she's going to let a masseur strip her butt naked and touch her intimately, and when she'll protest, he'll go like "Uh, madam, I know what I'm doing, this is my job, stfu and lemme do my job", that's fine. If I'm playing as a dumb PC, I'll bite. But then lemme PLAY AS A DUMB PC!!! Don't shift between the 'dumbness' of the PC, it pulls the game in various directions and in the end it ends up being below average cause you, as a developer, didn't stick to the choice made for the PC and his/her character traits keep on shifting, and ended up being all over the place.

4. Choice that doesn't matter.
Don't cheat me by giving me an illusion of a choice. Fuck that! Don't give me a choice and give me a solid, even a linear narrative, and I'll be more than happy with it. If you're giving me a choice, please work a little hard at your end and make that choice mean something. If you're making 3 girls available for 'romance', then make those 3 have a little more personality than the stereotypical party girl, shy girl and tough girl. I can romance all of the three, fuck them in every hole imaginable, tell them I love them more than my junk and they wont even have a problem if I fuck some other girl.
Now this can be only for me, but a little risk vs reward kinda thing, where I can not romance every available girl in one play through without any ramification is meh... (Again, this could only apply to me) But then again, if the characters aren't interesting enough, I wouldn't even bother with a second play through.

5. ♪ Everybody was kung-fu fighting ♫
And I mean almost EVERYBODY is trying to make a game. Heck, even I have downloaded over 20 gbs worth of stuff to make a game of my own. Hence I understand the charm, or the compelling reason to make a game. But please, don't throw in 2 marketplace models of daz, and a hero, string em up in RPG maker without a sliver of story/context and throw a V0.0.0.0.00000-1 out to get a feedback. Give yourself some time. Write the story, try to make some interesting characters, if not characters then have an interesting story. Like WETness already said it so well, "There's a million things out there I could be jacking off to...", and truth be told there are better storylines available in some of porn movies, don't make a game just for the sake of it. You as a developer will get tired of it cause you're not really applying yourself as a developer.
And if you're in to milk that Patreon money, then I curse you with impotency in your most private and crucial moments!!!


P.S My game(s) will be free, and I'll release it/them here, wont make no patreon or anything like that for support and stuff. I like to tell stories and I think I have some quirky ones that might entertain others. I wanna make them for the community, not for money.
 

TinoBambino

Member
Game Developer
Aug 6, 2016
128
235
4. Choice that doesn't matter.
Don't cheat me by giving me an illusion of a choice. Fuck that! Don't give me a choice and give me a solid, even a linear narrative, and I'll be more than happy with it. If you're giving me a choice, please work a little hard at your end and make that choice mean something. If you're making 3 girls available for 'romance', then make those 3 have a little more personality than the stereotypical party girl, shy girl and tough girl. I can romance all of the three, fuck them in every hole imaginable, tell them I love them more than my junk and they wont even have a problem if I fuck some other girl.
Now this can be only for me, but a little risk vs reward kinda thing, where I can not romance every available girl in one play through without any ramification is meh... (Again, this could only apply to me) But then again, if the characters aren't interesting enough, I wouldn't even bother with a second play through.
Yes, and by extension of that, the choice of whether to fuck or not is NOT a meaningful choice. It's not even a choice really. If the only decisions you get to make in the story are "Do I allow this to continue or do I skip it?" then you need to go back and look at your development map.

This also plays into the RPG Maker fatigue. There's a great, free, simple engine out there for linear storytelling with branches, it is called Ren'py.

I don't think any 'developer' would read these, cause they hate us like crazy, but it sure does feel good to rant it out, so I'll contribute my 2 cents of fume.

...

P.S My game(s) will be free, and I'll release it/them here, wont make no patreon or anything like that for support and stuff. I like to tell stories and I think I have some quirky ones that might entertain others. I wanna make them for the community, not for money.
Then you're a developer, buddy, and I hope we can both learn from each other and this list.
 
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JohnRobinson

Member
Aug 5, 2016
158
233
Oh... i so love this post, i many times i am playing a RPG maker game and just think "Why the fuck did they put this here? Why do they think this shit is a good idea???" Just common sense things, surely they test the game? Feel the frustration?

Another thing, lack or directions... i think it was "Keepin' It In The Family: Dysfunctional Family" a game with like... 5 massive maps connected by loading screens and your task is "I need to go and see my friend Jay" That's it, no direction, no "near the clothes shop" nothing, just go see Jay... go check every damn door in this ridiculously sized map until you stumble into the right one.
 
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smileyfaceguy

Newbie
Sep 23, 2016
84
394
Is there a place where someone could get daz models for free? I have a couple of ideas lined up, but I need to practice my 3D-modelling skills.
 

graykingdom

Member
Oct 15, 2016
116
83
You could have spent the 5 mins to google it but here are some useful links to pirated content and free content that isn't even pirated for you to look at.

Also if you are using a 3D model you are not working on 3D modeling you working on posing and animation if you have the time or computer.

3D modeling would be working in zbrush or marvelous designer and making clothing or character or props etc.

I would also recommend that you learn lighting and camera stuff like iso, depth of field and so on it will help with renders and increase your quality of images.






 

smileyfaceguy

Newbie
Sep 23, 2016
84
394
You could have spent the 5 mins to google it but here are some useful links to pirated content and free content that isn't even pirated for you to look at.

Also if you are using a 3D model you are not working on 3D modeling you working on posing and animation if you have the time or computer.

3D modeling would be working in zbrush or marvelous designer and making clothing or character or props etc.

I would also recommend that you learn lighting and camera stuff like iso, depth of field and so on it will help with renders and increase your quality of images.






Thanks! Yeah I'm a complete beginner so I have to spend some time getting into it. These will be a great help :)
 

Archast

Active Member
Game Developer
Aug 6, 2016
527
1,932
I'm kind of dev and I read it all, does it count? :p
Just kidding, I agree with most points here, but let me add one more: Don't make your players make important choices without giving them the freedom to save before.
The first example that comes to mind is impure, it has a scene that turns into another, ends and start a day, and at the morning you wake up to a fucking big decision! If I want to see it again, I have to wait another hour to get there... Not nice.
 
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gunderson

Member
Aug 17, 2016
358
630
Some gentle additions, if I may?

1) If We Haven't Already Played Your Game, We Don't Care About the Lore

I get it. It's way easier to have an intro cinematic than to try to feed a player lore about your world in the game itself while they're trying to find something to furiously jack off to. And if you make the prologue unskippable, they must have seen it, right?

Middle. Finger. There is nothing that takes me out of an RPG as it starts more than a dull and totally pointless exposition about how this territory hates this territory after they went to war for the fifth time, but then magic came back, and now the only thing that can save us is the power of the cards. At LEAST include some Goddamn titties or cocks or whatever the sexual draw for your game is supposed to be in your dull prologue.

2) If You Aren't a Strong English Speaker, for the Love of Fuck Get a Strong English Speaker to Read Over Your English Text Before Releasing Your Game

That one's pretty straightforward, right? Especially if you want somebody to pay money for your game, you should definitely make your patrons feel like you give at least a bit of a shit about your game's overall polish. Yes even if it's an alpha or whatever! Your alpha/beta/demo/etc. release is what sells people on your game and keeps them coming back!

3) Clear Directions Whenever Possible

Your player should never be lost, unless that's a minigame or puzzle of some kind itself and isolated to one area/situation. Your player should never have to re-play a long, drawn-out dialogue or scene to know where to go next if they missed it the first time. Maybe it means a quest log, maybe it means a little '!' above the heads of important NPCs. Whatever mechanism you use, it keeps the player engaged, especially during the 'down time' between sex scenes.

...

Anyway! Not an exhaustive list by any means, but these are all things that frequently (whether they show up on their own or in combination with the others) keep me from enjoying or even going back to a later release of a game.
 

Gold613

Active Member
Sep 21, 2016
631
751
Holy lord I have laughed my ass off on some of these frustrations XD,
Not the frustrations themselves but more of the way they were said.

I Agree with pretty much everything that has been said here.
Now a days it get's really frustrating to find good decent games.uhg..
 

Random

Newbie
Mar 10, 2017
26
14
That whole damned map thing is why I've completely sworn off RPG Maker games... I am so goddamned tired of searching 50 doors to find the ONE door halfway down a dark alley that leads to the best friend's house... Never in an obvious place.. Half of the ones I've tried the only real 'gameplay' has been figuring out where the fuck the developer intended for me to walk next...
 
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89tasker

Member
Jun 4, 2017
383
782
A few suggestions:

1)Here's a big one for me. Using TIME: Games that count down hours of the day for every action you do, and scheduling events to happen only during certain hours.

I'm new to your world, so I need to search under the bed, and desk, and closet, and hack my own computer, and walk around the house opening everything... don't hamper me with a time constraint. What makes it even worse is making me wait in a room for something to happen. "I have nothing to do, so I'll stand in this room for 24hrs and see if anything happens. One down, a hundred left to check..."

2)RPGmaker:
Putting Obstacles along a straight path so we have to weave around it. It already sucks that we have to walk two maps over to get to school, but why is there a giant fountain, a billion bushes, and a lake between the street and the entrance?.

3)This one is specific to Incest games.
Characters that call each other "bro, son, sis, daughter, etc". No one does that. You took the time to name the NPC's (and sometimes made us type our own) so use it! You don't walk around calling people "friend" or "teacher." ("Mom" and "Dad" are proper names, so those don't count.). This may be specific to non-English speakers, but I doubt it.

4)Money.
I know it's an easy way to lengthen game play but unless it's used as a goal to pay off some hooker, it's pointless. Making me go to work, then home, then work, then home over and over is boring. Most players will just cheat around this constraint or do the grind all at once (while watching TV) then go back to the story. Find another way to gate off content. (and no one is ever going to buy the small or medium sword. It's Excalibur or nothing).
 
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sfc

Newbie
May 7, 2017
28
121
In Transport Tycoon Deluxe and the later Rollercoaster games the developer had a sick need for breakdowns. In the base games maintenance needs and breakdowns are a constant hassle and one of the first things modded out. In OpenTTD it is entirely optional.

In the Mass Effect series every single game had elements that players and reviewers labelled as time wasters. In Andromeda the time wasting travel animations were patched out in one of the first patches.

In the original Fallout game your interface had a rotating lower half that rotated to show a different game content. Looked good once, the 10th time it got annoying, the 1000th time...

The point? It is not just RPGmaker developers that love wasting time. It is a sickness common to practically every game developer, even highly experienced developers. But the big game devs got a ton of proper gameplay features to pull players in. Porn games don't. So pay attention! The recurring message in the above posts is clear, don't waste players time.

We don't just got jobs to go to as in "proper" games, we have dicks to keep hard or pussies to keep wet. So put a sticky note on your monitor dev with "Less is more". And if you absolutely must have repetition, VARY things up.

Big Brother does this almost right, the Eric scene with the elder sister has almost a dozen variations in clothes she models. But why wasted on that scene? Why not give her a few more bathing outfits? Or different angles in the shower peek?

A bit of variation keeps the grind interesting if you feel your game can't go without.

A lot of games do involve endless repetition. But that doesn't mean it is an essential element. Every Visual Novel should prove that.

Oh and mini games... geez god, just fucking don't. They are never any good and if I want to play a very poorly done version of a mini-game, I go to a flash site. Summertime Sage, this is you! I came to play a dating sim, not a "my first flash game" sim.
 

Carmen Sandiego

Active Member
Game Developer
May 17, 2017
892
1,265
I don't think any 'developer' would read these, cause they hate us like crazy, but it sure does feel good to rant it out, so I'll contribute my 2 cents of fume.

1. RPG Maker-esque games.
Yeah its great that you have a great engine to make these games, its great that the engine provides so much freedom and you don't have to worry about coding and stuff, but FFS!!! If you don't use the features provided in the engine, then maybe its better to use some other engine? Adventure creator, VN engine, or anything that doesn't make it a walking simulator. I've hardly seen the PC, in any game, level up, use the inventory to sort out his/her gear, any game to use the HP/Mana/Stamina mechanic. I understand not every game would utilize all the mechanics, then maybe your game would benefit from using a different engine?

2. Big ass worlds w/o maps.
(WETness covered this brilliantly, I just wanna add some more)
If you're creating a big map, great! There will be tons of shit to do, and bazillion places to visit in V99.999.999+, but I'm playing V0.0.0.0.0.0001, I swear I spent 30 mins in "Lily of Valley" (or a game close to that title) trying to find my best friend's house and boy was that fun...
Please include jpg file that describes the locations, even if its so pathetically rendered/drawn that it makes stick figures look like Studio Ghibli's prime work, it would help a hell lot.

3. PC's Naivety.
If PC is naive as fuck, that she's going to let a masseur strip her butt naked and touch her intimately, and when she'll protest, he'll go like "Uh, madam, I know what I'm doing, this is my job, stfu and lemme do my job", that's fine. If I'm playing as a dumb PC, I'll bite. But then lemme PLAY AS A DUMB PC!!! Don't shift between the 'dumbness' of the PC, it pulls the game in various directions and in the end it ends up being below average cause you, as a developer, didn't stick to the choice made for the PC and his/her character traits keep on shifting, and ended up being all over the place.

4. Choice that doesn't matter.
Don't cheat me by giving me an illusion of a choice. Fuck that! Don't give me a choice and give me a solid, even a linear narrative, and I'll be more than happy with it. If you're giving me a choice, please work a little hard at your end and make that choice mean something. If you're making 3 girls available for 'romance', then make those 3 have a little more personality than the stereotypical party girl, shy girl and tough girl. I can romance all of the three, fuck them in every hole imaginable, tell them I love them more than my junk and they wont even have a problem if I fuck some other girl.
Now this can be only for me, but a little risk vs reward kinda thing, where I can not romance every available girl in one play through without any ramification is meh... (Again, this could only apply to me) But then again, if the characters aren't interesting enough, I wouldn't even bother with a second play through.

5. ♪ Everybody was kung-fu fighting ♫
And I mean almost EVERYBODY is trying to make a game. Heck, even I have downloaded over 20 gbs worth of stuff to make a game of my own. Hence I understand the charm, or the compelling reason to make a game. But please, don't throw in 2 marketplace models of daz, and a hero, string em up in RPG maker without a sliver of story/context and throw a V0.0.0.0.00000-1 out to get a feedback. Give yourself some time. Write the story, try to make some interesting characters, if not characters then have an interesting story. Like WETness already said it so well, "There's a million things out there I could be jacking off to...", and truth be told there are better storylines available in some of porn movies, don't make a game just for the sake of it. You as a developer will get tired of it cause you're not really applying yourself as a developer.
And if you're in to milk that Patreon money, then I curse you with impotency in your most private and crucial moments!!!


P.S My game(s) will be free, and I'll release it/them here, wont make no patreon or anything like that for support and stuff. I like to tell stories and I think I have some quirky ones that might entertain others. I wanna make them for the community, not for money.
I'm working on a game, I think you'll like it. If you legitimately have those gripes, check out my thread and leave some feedback. People love to harp about devs not listening but, and I'm not necessarily talking about you personally here, but I've been asking for feedback on a daily basis and I've gotten basically nothing. Some people have def gave me some great advice/help, I don't want to slight those people, but for the most part people have been pretty silent.
 

toolkitxx

Well-Known Member
Modder
Donor
Game Developer
May 3, 2017
1,473
1,794
<snip>
A lot of games do involve endless repetition. But that doesn't mean it is an essential element. Every Visual Novel should prove that.
Comparing a visual novel to an actual game is just plain wrong. A game usually has some kind of mechanic that provides progression towards some kind of end goal. For a lot of those mechanics time has to be an essential element unless you just want to click through sex scenes - i recommend watching porn instead then.

Time helps in limiting the number of possible activities and thus provides some kind of challenge - if used right. Just because a group of people prefer to run games fully cheated to see every scene and objective without working for it doesnt make it bad development or design. The bad design for repetitive activities is mostly caused by the lack of explaining the mechanics or a lack of indicators when or where something can be achieved - thus people repeat and repeat blindly. That is agreeable bad design. The majority of people dont want linear - so devs implement randomised parts. Bad rng is the worst that can happen for both the dev and the player and forcing you to repeat until you 'hit' the right one is also bad design if there isnt a function to catch that.
 

IvoryOwl

Active Member
Mar 29, 2017
760
1,408
What people want the most is quality and convinience. If it doesn't serve a purpose or have any consequence in the game then why are you wasting both yours and our time with it? Chores, mini-games, the grind in those "real-life simulators", unskippable cinematics and long-ass, empty maps are nothing more than adds meant to extend the gameplay in your otherwise bare-bones game with only 5 minutes worth of 'actual' game (the content we are all interested in and the reason why we downloaded it in the first place).

There's a trend in the indie sex game market and that is to release ideas and concepts of a game (because I refuse to call some of the games I've played "alphas", the're not even that) just so they have something up to demand money for. I also hate it when a developer goes radio silent for months and then of a suddend drops a micro patch with just a few extra pictures and bug fixes. Are you pulling our legs here? We don't care about whatever excuses you may have - you are part of an extremely saturated and competitive market, if you can't keep up then you will be left behind.

There's a million sex games out there and only a handful are even worth anything so do us all a favor and only post yours when you have enough content to justify it (extra points if it comes with an interesting concept).
 
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Gold613

Active Member
Sep 21, 2016
631
751
I so wished some of you would actually post these on Patreon. Pure gold!
The problem here with this is while they have legit tips on true fact's placing these on their patreon would get it insta deleted by the dev's or hidden because they know it is true however they also know that by doing this they would legit have to work on real content and cgi or drawing because they cannot be lazy to buy themselves a few extra months and even if they keep it they will show up with some damned dumb ass excuses to as why it is required they do it that way.

The reason this is put her is because of our in house dev's, I prefer we inspire them to be the best they can and even at one point work together, Imagen if these guys get all the way to top tier and totally smash the studio's/dev's we have now at this moment which will force them to either follow suite or step their game up to provide us with some awesome games.

Right now we LACK a lot of good games, Only worth mentioning ones are from Hreinn Games, EvaKiss, MrDots,Oni,3Diddly,VengeanceXXX,Ptolemy. Problem is the games are of good to top tier quality from these guys but some of em work alone where updates are minor or medium but still worth, when you have played all their games then you have a ton of shit RPGM and grindy ass games for that take an hour to play just to unlock 5 - 6 CGI or something. Hoping our Own Dev's do not go out of their way to make those same mistakes is what we hope for.